Shot type from too stiff a shaft

[rwhitlock]

Hello again…  I’m curious, in general, what type of shot would a player see if the driver shaft is too stiff?  Fades? Lower flight? Loss of distance?  Would too soft a flex result in bigger misses left and right?

 

My driver swing speed is right at 108 and there’s this nagging voice in my head that says I should be hitting X flex (I currently play S).

 

Thanks,  Rod

[AB515]

Too soft of a flex typically would lead to wider dispersion in both directions, as the club would not be as stable under a faster swing speed and as a result your contact on the face would likely be inconsistent.

 

Too stiff of a flex wouldn’t load properly, which would result in a loss of distance and a lower ball flight. Additionally, you will typically see more fades/slices, as the shaft won’t flex enough through the swing to square up the face.

[rwhitlock]

Thanks for the info.  Would tipping a Stiff shaft an inch be closer to an untipped X flex?  Just wondering if I should try a tipped S flex rather than jumping into an X flex.  

 

After a fitting gone wrong with CC, I ended up with an X flex and all I could hit were fades (borderline slices) and it never felt like I could load the shaft.    I'm thinking of the Ventus Blue 6X or the 6S tipped an inch.  Going into a G410 or Sim2 Max

 

Thanks again for the advice and help.   Rod

[Stuart_G]

14 hours ago, rwhitlock said:

Hello again…  I’m curious, in general, what type of shot would a player see if the driver shaft is too stiff?  Fades? Lower flight? Loss of distance?  Would too soft a flex result in bigger misses left and right?

 

My driver swing speed is right at 108 and there’s this nagging voice in my head that says I should be hitting X flex (I currently play S).

 

Thanks,  Rod

 

Really there is no one single "typical" response.  It can be different for everyone how much (if at all) they are effected.

 

There is nothing in the physics of how a shaft works that determines how stiff the shaft should be based on the swing speed or even the mechanics.   Those are just generalizations used to help start the fitting process nothing more.   There is also no standard for the flex labels so you can't really judge the stiffness by the label.  e.g. There are plenty of stiff flex shafts that are actually will feel stiffer than some other x-flex shafts. 

 

The judgement on whether a shaft is too stiff or too soft is purely a subjective assessment each player has to make.  When the feel does not match the expectations of the player,  changes can happen to the players swing.  Some may try (not always consciously) to alter the swing to get the feel to match what they want it to e.g. slow down the transition if they feel it's loading too much or speed it up if it's not loading enough.  But that's just one example, there are many possibilities.    It can mess up the sequencing of the different body parts or the release timing among other things.  So some might see a big hook while others might see a big slice for a shaft that's too soft.    But for most it wont have much effect on the swing and then the stiffness is really not as important as they are lead to believe.  But for those that are effected, it can be very important.

 

So really the most common "sign" or "symptom" of a stiffness problem is that the shaft feels too soft (or too stiff) in a way that the amount of loading being felt during the swing makes the player uncomfortable or doesn't feel "right".   If there doesn't feel like there is a problem, there probably isn't.     Note that's very different from doubt or concern generated before you even start to swing the club.  Although when it comes to the golf swing, any amount of doubt (no matter what the source or how legitimate) has the potential for a negative effect.

 

But the first question always has to be:  "How does the shaft feel to you?"

 

But even that is not 100% accurate way to test it out and only comparing actual results with different stiffness profiles will give the true answer.

Edited June 29, 2021 by Stuart_G

[webwarmiller]

As the above poster said, it really depends on the person.  For me, too soft generally means pushes and a feeling that the shaft never releases before impact which leaves the face open. Too stiff and it's the just the opposite, the ball goes left with a feeling that the shaft has 'kicked' too early resulting in a closed clubface at impact.  Both make complete sense in my head.  At the swing transition and start of the downswing you are gong to deflect the shaft the most.  Too soft a shaft and there's not enough rigidity to overcome the deflection in time for impact; too stiff and it happens too early. 

[Stuart_G]

15 minutes ago, webwarmiller said:

For me, too soft generally means pushes and a feeling that the shaft never releases before impact which leaves the face open.

 

Do you realize that while I agree it might feel that way, that's not what's really happening?   You do release the shaft before impact (otherwise you'd never make contact with the ball) it's just a tiny bit later than you typically release it.    Usually it comes from a deceleration of the swing that can happen when one feels "too much loading"   e.g. an instinctive "I have to stop loading the shaft more" reaction.   The golf swing equivalent to a balk.

 

Same thing happens to me.

Edited June 29, 2021 by Stuart_G

[phizzy30]

Ventus Blue in x flex is stout.  At your ss which is borderline s and x, I would recommend s flex but tipped and inch.  It will play SX flex which is right in between s and x. 

[rwhitlock]

5 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Really there is no one single "typical" response.  It can be different for everyone how much (if at all) they are effected.

 

There is nothing in the physics of how a shaft works that determines how stiff the shaft should be based on the swing speed or even the mechanics.   Those are just generalizations used to help start the fitting process nothing more.   There is also no standard for the flex labels so you can't really judge the stiffness by the label.  e.g. There are plenty of stiff flex shafts that are actually will feel stiffer than some other x-flex shafts. 

 

The judgement on whether a shaft is too stiff or too soft is purely a subjective assessment each player has to make.  When the feel does not match the expectations of the player,  changes can happen to the players swing.  Some may try (not always consciously) to alter the swing to get the feel to match what they want it to e.g. slow down the transition if they feel it's loading too much or speed it up if it's not loading enough.  But that's just one example, there are many possibilities.    It can mess up the sequencing of the different body parts or the release timing among other things.  So some might see a big hook while others might see a big slice for a shaft that's too soft.    But for most it wont have much effect on the swing and then the stiffness is really not as important as they are lead to believe.  But for those that are effected, it can be very important.

 

So really the most common "sign" or "symptom" of a stiffness problem is that the shaft feels too soft (or too stiff) in a way that the amount of loading being felt during the swing makes the player uncomfortable or doesn't feel "right".   If there doesn't feel like there is a problem, there probably isn't.     Note that's very different from doubt or concern generated before you even start to swing the club.  Although when it comes to the golf swing, any amount of doubt (no matter what the source or how legitimate) has the potential for a negative effect.

 

But the first question always has to be:  "How does the shaft feel to you?"

 

But even that is not 100% accurate way to test it out and only comparing actual results with different stiffness profiles will give the true answer.

Thanks Stuart for the information.  I enjoy learning the why 🙂   Now, if i could only find a place to demo shafts for a small fee would be nice!

[PorkChopExpress]

Should also take in account what the shaft feels like as the round progresses

 

 

[Duffer222]

18 hours ago, rwhitlock said:

Thanks for the info.  Would tipping a Stiff shaft an inch be closer to an untipped X flex?  Just wondering if I should try a tipped S flex rather than jumping into an X flex.  

 

After a fitting gone wrong with CC, I ended up with an X flex and all I could hit were fades (borderline slices) and it never felt like I could load the shaft.    I'm thinking of the Ventus Blue 6X or the 6S tipped an inch.  Going into a G410 or Sim2 Max

 

Thanks again for the advice and help.   Rod

“PLAY THE SOFTEST FLEX YOU CAN CONTROL.”

[Galanga]

2 hours ago, rwhitlock said:

Thanks Stuart for the information.  I enjoy learning the why 🙂   Now, if i could only find a place to demo shafts for a small fee would be nice!

Recommend Shaft Shack to demo some shafts on your home range and course.  Playing actual golf w a shaft under consideration while not paying full freight has considerable benefits.  At least for me, I swing harder while playing vs the range while feeling I am doing the same swing.  That delta btwn the range and the course has often led me not to like what I was fit for in a range environment.  

Edited June 29, 2021 by Galanga
Typo

[RolandofGilead]

22 hours ago, rwhitlock said:

Thanks for the info.  Would tipping a Stiff shaft an inch be closer to an untipped X flex?  Just wondering if I should try a tipped S flex rather than jumping into an X flex.  

 

After a fitting gone wrong with CC, I ended up with an X flex and all I could hit were fades (borderline slices) and it never felt like I could load the shaft.    I'm thinking of the Ventus Blue 6X or the 6S tipped an inch.  Going into a G410 or Sim2 Max

 

Thanks again for the advice and help.   Rod

I can’t speak to Ventus shafts, but I swing driver at a similar speed to you (110-112). I started with standard HZRDUS 6.0 flex shafts and eventually tipped them 1” for optimal performance - it made a noticeable positive difference. Now I had the 6.0 shafts already installed and knew they weren’t a great fit, so there was no risk tipping them. But buying and tipping straight away would make me a little nervous because it is irreversible.

 

There are a lot of people here who use X flex in this tweener SS range and it always makes me scratch my head, given my results. I have never hit 6.5 flex, though.

 

🤷‍♂️