One piece take away limiting right elbow flexion?!?

[DesertRain]

Spoiler

 

Well without posting a video, looking for some thoughts on above topic.  In an attempt to limit excessive wrist/forearm movements and focus on a one piece take away, I think my trail arm/elbow is staying extended too long.  I feel I have great club position at club parallel but getting to left arm parallel,  I’m not getting to that very important 90 degrees between club and trail arm.  In an attempt to get there, I feel like I’m getting too handsy and picking the club up too much on take away.  
Maybe I need a compromise…of that one piece take away but with some wrist movement/hinge earlier on?  More focus on right elbow flexion?? Hope this ramble makes sense.  

[chipa]

1 minute ago, DesertRain said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Well without posting a video, looking for some thoughts on above topic.  In an attempt to limit excessive wrist/forearm movements and focus on a one piece take away, I think my trail arm/elbow is staying extended too long.  I feel I have great club position at club parallel but getting to left arm parallel,  I’m not getting to that very important 90 degrees between club and trail arm.  In an attempt to get there, I feel like I’m getting too handsy and picking the club up too much on take away.  
Maybe I need a compromise…of that one piece take away but with some wrist movement/hinge earlier on?  More focus on right elbow flexion?? Hope this ramble makes sense.  

 

I believe this is a very common problem and something I have personally struggled with to the point that I have changed my takeaway to be left hand dominant. This has been a work in progress but seeing a video of Manuel De La Torres showing a young golfer start the backswing was what I feel has helped me immensely in understanding what needs to happen, which in my opinion is that both hands and arms need to feel "connected" from the onset of the swing. I am currently looking at Tommy Armour's swing. Here is the video I referenced. - watch a few minutes until Manuel shows the young fellow "how to swing the club" and notice how much different it is than his original action. It is not as easy as it appears to do as it is a complex move with the left hand and shoulder. Good luck. 

 

 

 

 

[Zitlow]

Don't limit use of the hands and wrists (not stiff wristed) off the ball, they are key components for distance and putting your left arm, club shaft and face on plane which is important if you want the ball to go where you want it to go. 

[DesertRain]

Thanks guys.  The MDL video is such a good reminder to not overthink things.  I playing down to a 5.8 hc so I can hit the ball, but just seems when I start to get too technical, my backswing gets this decreased hand/wrist movement.  Back to the range…..

[chipa]

Just now, DesertRain said:

Thanks guys.  The MDL video is such a good reminder to not overthink things.  I playing down to a 5.8 hc so I can hit the ball, but just seems when I start to get too technical, my backswing gets this decreased hand/wrist movement.  Back to the range…..

 

That happens to me too. However, I also find that if I use no technique at all I generally turn the club under, that's my natural move and is difficult to recover from. Therefore, after much experimentation I've adopted a hands forward position (like starting from forward press position) and then turn my left hand back and push to start the swing, that's it. 

 

From what I can tell my natural move is like the S and T that Saguto teaches, but honestly I can't figure out how that will ever fix anyone's slice. The old school way to cure a slice was to play with the hands far forward but I can't find anyone who teaches that anymore, even though a few big names swing like this, like DJ Johnson.

[Ghostwedge]

The video of MDLT is pure genius. At 9:30 mark when the kid almost falls over on his follow through cracks me up. Another great example of forget the technical stuff, just let natural coordination happen.

[FormerBigDaddy]

21 hours ago, chipa said:

 

I believe this is a very common problem and something I have personally struggled with to the point that I have changed my takeaway to be left hand dominant. This has been a work in progress but seeing a video of Manuel De La Torres showing a young golfer start the backswing was what I feel has helped me immensely in understanding what needs to happen, which in my opinion is that both hands and arms need to feel "connected" from the onset of the swing. I am currently looking at Tommy Armour's swing. Here is the video I referenced. - watch a few minutes until Manuel shows the young fellow "how to swing the club" and notice how much different it is than his original action. It is not as easy as it appears to do as it is a complex move with the left hand and shoulder. Good luck. 

 

 

 

 

This is such a great visual for how a basic golf swing should feel like. I also get tense / mechanical and this is a great reminder. When he puts his hands on the club to guide him and uses momentum and blends the wrist hinge it’s a great reset for me. I lose the feeling of this ALL the time, especially when I get thinking about the one piece takeaway and angles. Gotta save this

[DesertRain]

One session last night saw improved ball striking, getting to left side and better compression!  Main swing thought was to still focus on one piece takeaway but remain relaxed through wrist/hands, flat left wrist at top AND to swing down with the arms like in posted video.  The journey continues…..

[spineshank]

I have this problem. Finding it tough to sort out too.

[FormerBigDaddy]

Watched the Manuel de la Torre video last night shot 79 today. Was good for my 3rd best differential all time (course rating of 73). I gotta watch that video on repeat. 

The part at the very beginning where he puts his hands on the club when the young man is swinging and he guide him to feel that hinge is gold for me. Are there any more videos out there as simple to see and understand as that?  That is exactly me… I get so tense in my takeaway that I don’t swing my arms and hinge my wrists freely. I tend to end up inside and flat. I hit the ball so friggin good when I feel that free arm swing with wrist hinge. 

Edited August 10, 2021 by FormerBigDaddy

[chipa]

1 hour ago, FormerBigDaddy said:

Watched the Manuel de la Torre video last night shot 79 today. Was good for my 3rd best differential all time (course rating of 73). I gotta watch that video on repeat. 

The part at the very beginning where he puts his hands on the club when the young man is swinging and he guide him to feel that hinge is gold for me. Are there any more videos out there as simple to see and understand as that?  That is exactly me… I get so tense in my takeaway that I don’t swing my arms and hinge my wrists freely. I tend to end up inside and flat. I hit the ball so friggin good when I feel that free arm swing with wrist hinge. 

 

The video has been very helpful to me as well. I understand Manny never really described what he was doing other than to say the hands start the backswing and the toe should be pointing up at 3 oclock and the left hand reaches over the right shoulder. I have been to the MDLT forums to see if Manny offered more instruction in this area but honestly my question was not taken too positively from many MDLT followers because I believe they say his method was free of technical details. Nonetheless, it appears Manny did want the swing to start a certain way but preferred to show his students rather than describe it in technical terms. I think about this video often when I am swinging bad to get me back on track. 

[chipa]

If anyone is interested I would like to participate in a thread that discusses the technical aspects of the Manny swing in this particular video. We would just need to point out that we are not following everything Manny recommended only that we would like to understand the technique he shows the student in the video. For some reason I can't get it every time so I watch it frequently and visualize it often. 

[DesertRain]

Sounds like good idea to me. 

I’ve been more involved in swing process lately and I do really like the amg guys and what monte is preaching and my main take away from all that info is getting the club starting properly will limit the compensation occurring later on.  This is why I’ve been so focused on getting things in proper position at left arm parallel. 
Regardless of how your get there, you can’t have too much tension and the above video sure helps

[bladehunter]

Interesting video.  I’m not family with the guy. But I like how he explains things.    
 

find it interesting that his position at the top is counter to alot of what we hear today vis-à-vis lead wrist position.  Makes me feel better about being a cupper instead of a bower.  Lol. 

[chipa]

2 hours ago, iSwing said:

 

It's a matter of swinging and acquiring leverage, or leveraging and acquiring a 'swing' in the case of this discussion.    They look nearly the same but the hands and wrists can set at different moments for different reasons and the overall movement can have some width differences too,  but no need to get into the weeds, too hard in words. 

 

So to somewhat experience these 2 differences try this:  get a string a little over 2 feet long,  securely attach something quite a bit heavier to one end of it, like a ball, old remote control, phone, lol.... tie the other string end around the grip end of the club about where your hands would join together.  The attached weight should plumb bob about a foot off the ground, does not have to be precise. 

 

Take hold of the club with your regular grip with the string underneath your hands, working the string around if needed to get comfortable, and notice the plumb bob dangling directly below your hands.  If you swing the bob to a little past 3 o'clock, forget the club swing the bob, the bob end will travel along with the hands, arms, and club shaft to a little past 3 o'clock,  OR, use early wrist set to leverage and take the club to the same spot,  but in this case the bob remains vertical to the ground the entire time (because the bob is not swinging) while the shaft 'moves' and finding parallel to the ground when arriving at a little past 3. 

 

That should give you an idea about some of the differences, but here's a quick rough pic too.    Questions to PM.

 

 

Thanks for the advice. I should mention I have a problem with my lower back I can't take the club to the inside as I need to keep my right leg and back somewhat resisting, in other words it makes it difficult to hit these positions. In fact I take the club outside mostly and drop it in on the downswing. I have my hands much farther forward than Manny recommended as a result, but that's the only way I can play w/o hurting myself. In spite of this I have learned that I need to get the club pointed back quickly as much as practical as Manny demonstrates.

[DesertRain]

11 minutes ago, chipa said:

Thanks for the advice. I should mention I have a problem with my lower back I can't take the club to the inside as I need to keep my right leg and back somewhat resisting, in other words it makes it difficult to hit these positions. In fact I take the club outside mostly and drop it in on the downswing. I have my hands much farther forward than Manny recommended as a result, but that's the only way I can play w/o hurting myself. In spite of this I have learned that I need to get the club pointed back quickly as much as practical as Manny demonstrates.

Matt Wolfe??

[chipa]

1 hour ago, DesertRain said:

Matt Wolfe??

 

Somewhat similar but not the same results although I can still get the driver to 110.

[Noodler]

On 8/8/2021 at 12:33 PM, DesertRain said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Well without posting a video, looking for some thoughts on above topic.  In an attempt to limit excessive wrist/forearm movements and focus on a one piece take away, I think my trail arm/elbow is staying extended too long.  I feel I have great club position at club parallel but getting to left arm parallel,  I’m not getting to that very important 90 degrees between club and trail arm.  In an attempt to get there, I feel like I’m getting too handsy and picking the club up too much on take away.  
Maybe I need a compromise…of that one piece take away but with some wrist movement/hinge earlier on?  More focus on right elbow flexion?? Hope this ramble makes sense.  

 

Morikawa's takeaway and backswing are so silky smooth it's like watching poetry in motion... lot's of good stuff to pick up on if you watch this a few hundred times...

 

 

[DesertRain]

So silky noodler.  I too will watch a ton.  Man that tempo is smooth