Phil Mickelson rips USGA over proposal to limit length of drivers to 46 inches

[bscinstnct]

26 minutes ago, airjammer said:

You are kidding right? A transition period to learn how to hit a toaster on stick the same length or couple inches longer than their 3 wood or driving iron?  Oh and their driver was probably 46 inches or less in the past couple of years ago. 
 

I think they are heading of the RB are heading off everyone going to 48 inches in a few years with the advance in shaft technology among other things. If anyone thinks the brilliant engineers and the money hungry companies don’t have ideas for improving every part of the equipment for the next 10 years already in the product development phase, they are living in fantasy land. 

 

Lol, I openly mock the pros for using toasters (I think I may have coined that actually; )

 

And no, not kidding. 
 

The bottom line is, whatever the change, you can’t tell a guy who just won a major championship one year,

 

Oh btw, you can’t use that driver next year.

 

Right?

 

 

.

Edited August 28, 2021 by bscinstnct

[golfandfishing]

14 minutes ago, airjammer said:

Bryson is a above average intelligent person as far as I can tell and he has surrounded himself with much smarter than him. I wouldn’t have surprise me if Bryson or one of his team let the cat out of the bag so to speak why is 48in driver experiment failed. Once the problem is known and their is money to be made solving said problem their will be several entities trying to solve that problem for profit. 

Bryson isn’t any smarter than any average person and he has surrounded himself with promoters. They may be good at social media and manipulating an image, but calling him or any of his hangers on “intelligent” is an insult to everyone who can so much as remember their own PIN at the bank. 

[BMC]

Love Phil stirring things up in a boring golf world.  Phil's got plenty of cred to comment on this stuff.

[3whacker]

IMO this is leading down a slippery slope....what if they legislated that the length of your wedges couldn't be more than 36in....who would that affect , MR BDC and his one length for everything...or like everyone is saying what if they limit the length of your putter, a lot of these arm lock putters would have a tough time...

 

The elephant in the room is still there, they just refuse to acknowledge its presence

[tiderider]

phil vs usga ... 

 

 

[airjammer]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Lol, I openly mock the pros for using toasters (I think I may have coined that actually; )

 

And no, not kidding. 
 

The bottom line is, whatever the change, you can’t tell a guy who just won a major championship one year,

 

Oh btw, you can’t use that driver next year.

 

Right?

 

 

.

What does a major have to do with anything?  Phil as much as anyone has tinkered with his equipment so he is the last person I want to here any whining about having to go back to a length driver that he has played in the past and won with. Also Phil has and will currently use whatever rule they have in place to maneuver the situation in his favor  on and off the golf course as a example the ping eye 2 wedge and inside trading so the usga and him have no love loss. Wouldn’t surprise me if they had his major win in mind when concocting this change. 

[tungstenplug]

48" is fine. Reduce the driver head size

[bscinstnct]

37 minutes ago, airjammer said:

What does a major have to do with anything?  Phil as much as anyone has tinkered with his equipment so he is the last person I want to here any whining about having to go back to a length driver that he has played in the past and won with. Also Phil has and will currently use whatever rule they have in place to maneuver the situation in his favor  on and off the golf course as a example the ping eye 2 wedge and inside trading so the usga and him have no love loss. Wouldn’t surprise me if they had his major win in mind when concocting this change. 

 

Im for the change. I’d actually like to see the max length at 45 and a reduction in head size, and specs, so off center hits would be less forgiving. 
 

But, if these changes are truly well thought out to accomplish long term goals, it’s irresponsible to rush the changes on players. 
 

Plus, there’s a good possibility of bifurcation and you’d need to give young players up through college time to adjust.

 

So, I’m for changes that roll back distance a solid 15 yards.

 

You just can’t announce the changes and mandate them the following year. 

[dlygrisse]

Why is there even a 48” limit?  99.9% of golfers will gain no real advantage with a club this length, and even great players will struggle to control it. 
 

this is the USGA just trying to make itself feel better while really doing nothing of substance.  It’s an equipment virtue signal.  
 

always remember how the Road To Hell was paved. 

[bigeasy]

Golf has a lot of momentum right now, hey USGA lets do something stupid and stop that mo, like roll back the ball, limit driver head size, shaft length, make the cup smaller, groove size reduction.

 

 

 

[Mustard_Tiger]

Did the USGA ever do a full report on the effects of the 2010 groove rule? A study that was done years later? It's been over 10 years since that fiasco rule change and, anecdotally, I haven't observed it to have any effect on scoring or strategy. But what it did do was force manufacturers to spend millions on R&D and retooling and for thousands (or millions) of golfers to junk perfectly good equipment.

 

If the USGA (and R&A) want to spend all their rule making time on screwing pros and elite amateurs they need to fully embrace bifurcation. There's no reason to be screwing amateur golfers due to their obsession with messing with the games of pros.

[kthomas]

I agree with Phil in that this is pretty stupid. 

 

The world of golf is completely bass ackwards when it comes to battling the long bombers. Equipment regs stifle ingenuity and progress, and hurts recreational golfers. Lengthening golf courses only plays in the hands of the longer hitters.

 

Rather then making courses longer and regulating equipment, they should be making courses challenging for longer bombers, penalizing poor long drives. That can be done in numerous ways. It would also make golf more exciting, and not penalize the recreational players and stifle progress in equipment. 

 

The USGA is being lazy in tackling this "problem". There's a lot of opportunity to creatively and strategically counter the long hitters, while still growing the sport of golf.

[NJBigFish22]

To me his sounds like Phil keeping his name in the news as he is about to exit the playoffs and needs to increase his clicks for the bonus money.  Maybe this is a rope a dope, players blasting reducing length so OEMs can trade length for bigger heads more distance on heads.

[Superfast2.0]

I think longer drivers should be legal and if you can control it then that's just an advantage you have. Just like Bryson and the other bomb and gouge types, if they are able to hit their 350 yard drives in the fairway it's an advantage, but they may be losing shots if their 330 carries are offline and in the junk

[Valtiel]

5 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Yet she will be punished by this restriction if put in place along with all the other LPGA pros using greater than 46" drivers.  I know it isn't a huge number of players, but it is still a further example of misguided attempts by the RBs to regulate how the game is played.

Exactly. In no way should people like her or anyone on the LPGA be punished by this rule, especially since the much more relevant spec (loft) could just as easily be regulated while impacting fewer players, say nothing below 7*. 

[Soloman1]

Maybe it's time to start a rival body to the USGA?

 

Who proclaimed the USGA as the sole arbiter of the rules of golf in the US? The pope? The Congress? A federal court?

 

I think it was more like, "I hereby anointed myself as the governing body of golf."

 

I'm going to be in trouble now. Wait, there's a knock at the door...

[bscinstnct]

59 minutes ago, kthomas said:

I agree with Phil in that this is pretty stupid. 

 

The world of golf is completely bass ackwards when it comes to battling the long bombers. Equipment regs stifle ingenuity and progress, and hurts recreational golfers. Lengthening golf courses only plays in the hands of the longer hitters.

 

Rather then making courses longer and regulating equipment, they should be making courses challenging for longer bombers, penalizing poor long drives. That can be done in numerous ways. It would also make golf more exciting, and not penalize the recreational players and stifle progress in equipment. 

 

The USGA is being lazy in tackling this "problem". There's a lot of opportunity to creatively and strategically counter the long hitters, while still growing the sport of golf.

 

I disagree and just use the simple fact that baseball bats have been the same in the mlb for like 100 years.

 

Ams use metal.

 

It hasn’t stifled progress in fitness or training in baseball. Or basketball. Or football. 
 

Why has the equipment remained the same for decades in these sports but the best golfers need insane forgiveness in giant driver heads and shafts?

 

 

Its mostly the ball really but there should be more penalty on off center hits. 
 

Kuch said it well,

 

The smaller driver would make a massive difference because you couldn’t swing hard at it correctly every time.

– Matt Kuchar

[PZero]

None of the problems (all of which are petty rules) are solved by limited driver length.

 

 

[Hawkeye77]

10 hours ago, gvogel said:

Brooke also chokes up 2" on all her clubs, so in effect she is swinging a 46" driver.

If a 46” driver worked better without gripping down on it I’d guess she’d be using one. 

[sui generis]

10 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

RBs to regulate how the game is played

 

Umm, that is their job. 🙂

[dlygrisse]

I’m gonna build me a 48” driver, just for fun and just for spite.  

[golfandfishing]

22 minutes ago, sui generis said:

 

Umm, that is their job. 🙂

As pointed out above - says who?  If the pga tour and Pga of America decided to write their own rules and use those to govern your events and the pga championship they could. The tour uses USGA rules mostly out of convenience and then alters them with local rules each week as well as a “hard card”.  The USGA’s authority only goes as far as their own events and the organizations that choose to adopt their rules. If the golf world said “f off” in unison they would only have their championships, and you can bet players would play whatever they wanted the other 51 weeks of the year and a shorter driver or whatever the week of the US Open. 

[sui generis]

24 minutes ago, golfandfishing said:

As pointed out above - says who?  If the pga tour and Pga of America decided to write their own rules and use those to govern your events and the pga championship they could. The tour uses USGA rules mostly out of convenience and then alters them with local rules each week as well as a “hard card”.  The USGA’s authority only goes as far as their own events and the organizations that choose to adopt their rules. If the golf world said “f off” in unison they would only have their championships, and you can bet players would play whatever they wanted the other 51 weeks of the year and a shorter driver or whatever the week of the US Open. 

 

The TV golf circus certainly is free to do as they like. They could have 8" holes and free do-overs and dancing girls. But, we all know they won't. 😉

[ThinkingPlus]

46 minutes ago, sui generis said:

 

Umm, that is their job. 🙂

Not exactly.  They are supposed to create and maintain the rules under which the game is played.  They are not supposed to dictate or restrict a style of play.  The RBs hate bomb and gouge golf.  They have been trying to kill it for years.  It started with the groove rule and is continuing with possible driver length restrictions, possible ball performance limitations, and maybe even COR/CT rollback.

 

They will continue to fail because bomb and gouge is the optimal way to play golf.  It pretty much has been for a long time (this cannot be proven really because we don't have the data - it is simply my opinion).  To eliminate bomb and gouge as the optimal approach, the RBs would have to rollback equipment to such an extent the game would essentially no longer be golf as anyone alive today has ever played.  However, in the pursuit of trying to kill bomb and gouge, the RBs will make a giant mess.

[sui generis]

TP, there will always be critics. They'll grouse when the RB's act reactively and another bunch will complain when they are proactive. As you know, I'm sure,  interested parties such as TV golf, the OEMs and various PGA of America and other similar bodies have a seat at the table with the RBs. 

[ArtMBgolf]

The big strong, thin rubbery, etc, pros are hitting 7-8 irons 200 yards,
with DG, Proj X, KBS shafts that aren't much different than 20 years ago. 
Irons have less loft.  The pros are long.  It's not due to 48" shafts, yet.   
 
If the USGA wants to play with driver shaft length, then also shrink the 
putter length and arm lock.         

[sui generis]

1 minute ago, ArtMBgolf said:

If the USGA wants to play with driver shaft length, then also shrink the 
putter length and arm lock.

 

Really? These three things are unrelated. 🙄

[PureDivots]

Limit loft to 9 degrees or more. The long bombers with 5-7 degrees of loft on a very forgiving head is part of the issue. Force players into a lower spinning less forgiving head or lose distance for forgiveness. Doesnt hurt or effect 95% of the golfing public and their ability to enjoy the game and take advantage of equipment.

[NoTalentLefty]

11 hours ago, golfandfishing said:

Bryson isn’t any smarter than any average person and he has surrounded himself with promoters. They may be good at social media and manipulating an image, but calling him or any of his hangers on “intelligent” is an insult to everyone who can so much as remember their own PIN at the bank. 

Maybe in many things but when it comes to physics he got game . That ain’t made up. It’s something how we can’t grasp he has an understanding we cannot fathom . We might be better in other areas but that is his true gift. Never play down another man’s abilities. 

[golfandfishing]

13 minutes ago, NoTalentLefty said:

Maybe in many things but when it comes to physics he got game . That ain’t made up. It’s something how we can’t grasp he has an understanding we cannot fathom . We might be better in other areas but that is his true gift. Never play down another man’s abilities. 

He frequently misuses terms relating to the field. He doesn’t understand physics and I would allow at least a 10% probability that he would spell it incorrectly.