On course: leaf on top of ball

[Augster]

Ball is in the PA. I don’t know if that matters, I imagine not. 
 

A large leaf is on top of a ball in the PA making it impossible to ID the ball. The player can remove the LI to ID the ball. And if his ball moves in the process, not penalty. 
 

Does he have to put the leaf back after the ID?

 

Thanks. 

[Colin L]

The player can move loose impediments in a penalty area without restriction.  He doesn't need the excuse of identifying the ball.  He can pick up the leaf, throw it away, stuff it in his pocket, eat it, whatever takes his fancy.  

Edited September 6, 2021 by Colin L

[Augster]

4 minutes ago, Colin L said:

The player can move loose impediments in a penalty area without restriction.  He doesn't need the excuse of identifying the ball.  He can pick up the leaf, throw it away, stuff it in his pocket, eat it, whatever takes his fancy.  

But, if the ball moves he normally takes a penalty stroke. It’s only for ID purposes he doesn’t get the penalty stroke when his ball moves, AND he gets to replace the ball, AND he gets to get rid of the leaf. 
 

It seems very, very generous. 

[TerpFangolfer]

Yep, USGA had that question in the recent short course (maybe discussed here?) - in their scenario it was ball leaning against a pine cone in the GA. The caveat was...right where the pine cone was touching, was where the ID mark was. Same deal....move LI to identify,  ball moves = no pen, put ball back & don't to replace pine cone

[Colin L]

If you move your ball in the process of removing a loose impediment you get a penalty   Moving it in order to identify a ball would be a neat way of avoiding that.

Edited September 6, 2021 by Colin L

[Colin L]

Alternatively you might just mark and lift the ball to identify it and get rid of the leaf.

[limegreengent]

12 hours ago, Colin L said:

Alternatively you might just mark and lift the ball to identify it and get rid of the leaf.

 

Colin

 1 In the context of the question with the leaf on top of the ball you are correct - as the leaf will naturally move.

But just to clarify--

2.If the ball is resting against the leaf your statement above is too  " General " in its nature to be always correct .

I'm sure you intended the first comment.

[rogolf]

From Robin Farran;

A ball that might be Player A’s ball is on the edge of a large leaf. Player marks the position of the ball and lifts the ball for identification. It is Player A’s ball in play. Player A removes the leaf, replaces the ball on its original spot, and plays the ball. 

**Not OK! Player A gets a penalty of one stroke. 

A player must not deliberately remove a loose impediment that, if moved when the ball was at rest, would likely have caused the ball to move. See Rule 15.1a Exception 1. 

[Colin L]

4 hours ago, limegreengent said:

 

Colin

 1 In the context of the question with the leaf on top of the ball you are correct - as the leaf will naturally move.

But just to clarify--

2.If the ball is resting against the leaf your statement above is too  " General " in its nature to be always correct .

I'm sure you intended the first comment.

I was  referring specifically  to the situation described by the OP. Perhaps for others  you should expand on  your “too general” comment?

Edit

I see Rogolf has partly covered it, but maybe for the sake of fullness, the exception to Exception 1 of 15.1a needs to be teased out. I’m on a course right now and shouldn’t spend more time on my phone!

Edited September 7, 2021 by Colin L

[limegreengent]

Colin

On a purely separate matter.

One of the things that irritates me  is people on the course on their dammed phones.

Yesterday I played and one of the players had 3 conversations during the round - all initiated  by the incoming ring tone.

And of course those same people immediately peruse their phones as soon as they finish when you are having a beer and you want them to listen to you when you are recalling that great drive you hit on the 4th hole.😂😂

 

Edited September 7, 2021 by limegreengent

[Colin L]

3 hours ago, limegreengent said:

Colin

On a purely separate matter.

One of the things that irritates me  is people on the course on their dammed phones.

Yesterday I played and one of the players had 3 conversations during the round - all initiated  by the incoming ring tone.

And of course those same people immediately peruse their phones as soon as they finish when you are having a beer and you want them to listen to you when you are recalling that great drive you hit on the 4th hole.😂😂

 

Worry not and save the blood pressure!  I wasn’t even speaking on my phone, merely silently typing in my GolfWRX reply while sitting on my buggy watching players go by. I did feel guilty however that at that moment I wasn’t watching them but at least I wasn’t  sleeping.  

[golfortennis]

19 minutes ago, Colin L said:

Worry not and save the blood pressure!  I wasn’t even speaking on my phone, merely silently typing in my GolfWRX reply while sitting on my buggy watching players go by. I did feel guilty however that at that moment I wasn’t watching them but at least I wasn’t  sleeping.  

 

350 yd drives, new set of irons each year.... are we about to add posting to golfwrx while on course as a requirement for membership?  🤪

[limegreengent]

Colin

I shouldn't have doubted that not only  are you multitalented but you can multitask.👌

[Colin L]

40 minutes ago, limegreengent said:

Colin

I shouldn't have doubted that not only  are you multitalented but you can multitask.👌

Get ready to be impressed.  I can now (almost)  type on my phone using two thumbs like a teenager.

[2bGood]

Is a leaf always a loose impediment though? A wet leaf might be sticking to the ball. 😉

Edited September 8, 2021 by 2bGood

[antip]

4 hours ago, 2bGood said:

Is a leaf always a loose impediment though. A wet leaf might be sticking to the ball. 😉

So if you have a shaking hand and that wet leaf is shook off when you mark and lift to identify have you breached 8.1a? (Just joking, please don't answer.)

[Newby]

On 9/7/2021 at 2:12 PM, rogolf said:

From Robin Farran;

A ball that might be Player A’s ball is on the edge of a large leaf. Player marks the position of the ball and lifts the ball for identification. It is Player A’s ball in play. Player A removes the leaf, replaces the ball on its original spot, and plays the ball. 

 

**Not OK! Player A gets a penalty of one stroke. 

 

A player must not deliberately remove a loose impediment that, if moved when the ball was at rest, would likely have caused the ball to move. See Rule 15.1a Exception 1. 

 

How does a player identify a ball which is partially on and partially under a leaf if the identifying mark is concealed?

 

Who is Robin Farran?

[rogolf]

2 hours ago, Newby said:

How does a player identify a ball which is partially on and partially under a leaf if the identifying mark is concealed?

 

Who is Robin Farran?

Robin Farran:

https://swpga.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/swpga17/event/swpga1722/index.htm

[Newby]

But what about the 1st question?

[rogolf]

1 hour ago, Newby said:

But what about the 1st question?

Mark and lift the ball.  If the leaf moves during that process, no issue and no need to replace.  Just don't move the leaf deliberately while the ball is lifted if moving it when the ball is in place would cause the ball to move.

[antip]

On 9/8/2021 at 7:34 AM, Colin L said:

Get ready to be impressed.  I can now (almost)  type on my phone using two thumbs like a teenager.

Is that because your phone is bigger now?

[Colin L]

1 hour ago, antip said:

Is that because your phone is bigger now?

That helps, but the sad truth is it's because of trying to impress my grandchildren.  

[Newby]

3 hours ago, Colin L said:

That helps, but the sad truth is it's because of trying to impress my grandchildren.  

An impossible task I find.

[Newby]

9 hours ago, rogolf said:

Mark and lift the ball.  If the leaf moves during that process, no issue and no need to replace.  Just don't move the leaf deliberately while the ball is lifted if moving it when the ball is in place would cause the ball to move.

So the ball must be replaced 'within' the leaf?