Teeing Off During Match Play Event

[scottc25]

Background: We play an annual Ryder Cup style event with a neighboring club. There is no prize money (you actually have to pay $ for shirts, food, cart), all that the winning team gets is bragging rights along with a $20 trophy displayed in the pro shop.

 

What Happened: Shotgun start. One 9 is played as fourball and other 9 is played as an individual match. We are moving to the other nine after finishing a few of the fourball holes and are starting individual matches. We are a currently a hole and a half behind due to looking for a couple of lost balls on the first few holes. My opponent stops at the bar for refreshments. I wait a minute then say eff it we need to get moving. I tee off. Opponent drives up and asks if we should flip a tee for honor. I said we are behind and I already teed off. He looked like I killed his dog. "Really??? You should have waited for me before you teed off. I mean it's fine, but you shouldn't do that and we were not gone that long. My fourball partner asks opponent if he want's me to re-tee. He says yes.

 

Thoughts?

 

I will fill in the rest of the story later.

[scottc25]

1 minute ago, scottc25 said:

 

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by scottc25

[rogolf]

I think that you're okay and have done what was necessary to keep pace.  Imo, your opponent has no right to recall your stroke.

[2bGood]

As I read it you started a new match on the 9 so rule 6.4 a-1 would be in play in my view(below). Unless the committee somehow determined the order of play,  I do believe he had the right to make you replay the shot as you did technically play out of turn as the order was not determined by the random method required. In this scenario I would never have done that though and he was  not required to make you replay.

 

I guess I would also add, that I would not be too impressed with an opponent that hit with no witness if that was what occurred even it was in the correct order. I never hit a tee shot until my opponent arrives at the tee box.

 

Not sure if it could be relevant, but being late for a tee time has consequences too under rule 5.3

 

a. Match Play

(1) Order of Play. The player and opponent must play in this order:

• Starting First Hole. At the first hole, the honour is decided by the order of the draw set by the Committee or, if there is no draw, by agreement or by using a random method (such as tossing a coin).

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by 2bGood

[Colin L]

A shotgun start with two different formats over 9 holes,  meaning that almost every group would be playing some holes as a fourball, then 9 holes as singles and then the remaining holes as a continuation of the interrupted fourball.  Weird and wonderful but not exactly Ryder Cup 🙂

 

I reckon it would be a bit too much of. a stretch to apply any of the rules concerning  the start of a match to a round where the format changes such that all but two groups will  have 3 "starts".    By the way, was the halfway house stop (which would have been half way for only one group) authorised?  

 

Frankly, if you are going to mess around with the game in this sort of way, enjoy the fun but don't get too serious about matters like this.  It's too difficult to apply some of the  normal rules and conventions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

Edited September 28, 2021 by Colin L

[antip]

Slightly different take here. The answer depends on the Terms of the Competition. That is, IF the honour had been decided or specified in advance, and you had the honour, then that ball cannot be recalled. If the honour was not decided, then you had no right to step up and play before the honour was determined, so the match re-starts after the honour is determined.

[Nels55]

I have had that happen at the turn during a match more then once so I feel your pain.  For me though I will never hit any tee shot unless my opponent is there to see it.  

[antip]

36 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

I have had that happen at the turn during a match more then once so I feel your pain.  For me though I will never hit any tee shot unless my opponent is there to see it.  

That is very civilised and I agree. There is, however, nothing in the rules that enables a player to see their opponent's stroke.

[Augster]

You’ve got to determine the order of play before starting a match. That didn’t happen. Your opponent has every right to recall your stroke. From the ROG:

    •    In match play, the order of play is fundamental;

 

Did he try to say your extra stroke was practice and penalize you? Practice on the course is allowed before a match in match play. No penalty for that. And you know it was before the match, as the order hadn’t been decided yet. 

[Newby]

Was this really an individual match as stated in the OP. The first 9 consisted of 2 players from each club playing a fourball match it seems but how were the 'individual matches' constructed from 4 players?

[Colin L]

2 hours ago, Newby said:

Was this really an individual match as stated in the OP. The first 9 consisted of 2 players from each club playing a fourball match it seems but how were the 'individual matches' constructed from 4 players?

That puzzled me a bit too.   Presumably each group of 4 continued as a group but with two singles matches on the go - which, if correct,  raises the question as to what  the other two in the group were up to while the thirsty player was away swilling his beer.

 

Also intriguing is where the beer was available.  If at a "halfway house",  the group that started at the 9th would only be playing one hole before their beer break.  The group that started at the 11th  would get their break with only one more hole to play.   Or was this player's beer break unathorised?

 

Come on Scott!  We need more information to satisfy our curiosity.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Colin L

[scottc25]

Yes same groups. So I played one of the fourball opponents and my partner played the other fourball opponent. My fourball partner was on the tee watching me hit. The other two were in the clubhouse getting something from the bar.

 

Thanks everyone for the responses. If I was playing something like an FSGA event I would have waited. This being something very casual I didn't hesitate to get things moving and I stand by that move. I talked to our assistant pro and he didn't have a problem with what I did.

[Colin L]

Thanks, Scott.  Very interesting. 👍

[2bGood]

4 hours ago, scottc25 said:

Yes same groups. So I played one of the fourball opponents and my partner played the other fourball opponent. My fourball partner was on the tee watching me hit. The other two were in the clubhouse getting something from the bar.

 

Thanks everyone for the responses. If I was playing something like an FSGA event I would have waited. This being something very casual I didn't hesitate to get things moving and I stand by that move. I talked to our assistant pro and he didn't have a problem with what I did.

That is the great thing about match play. There is no problem with playing out of turn, but by the rules you opponent has the option of making you replay (as he did).

Edited September 28, 2021 by 2bGood

[charli]

Zero chance I’m hitting again, don’t care what the rule is. He went to the bar and already way way behind. I hope your second drive was even better and won the hole. I don’t know why this is annoying me this much. But In my head I’m imagining this guy 

[sui generis]

3 minutes ago, charli said:

don’t care what the rule is

 

Do that and go home. 🙄

[Fairway14]

On 9/27/2021 at 6:53 PM, scottc25 said:

 

 

What Happened: Shotgun start. One 9 is played as fourball and other 9 is played as an individual match. We are moving to the other nine after finishing a few of the fourball holes and are starting individual matches. 

 

 

 

How was the order of play determined to begin the fourball (best ball) matches ?

If by "finishing a few of the foruball holes" you mean that the fourball match still had some remaining holes while at the same time individual matches would commence , then your order of play on the turn's tee box should defer to the ongoing fourball match order of play.

[2bGood]

13 hours ago, Fairway14 said:

 

How was the order of play determined to begin the fourball (best ball) matches ?

If by "finishing a few of the foruball holes" you mean that the fourball match still had some remaining holes while at the same time individual matches would commence , then your order of play on the turn's tee box should defer to the ongoing fourball match order of play.

It kind of tricky to say. For me I tend to look at as the four ball match was suspended and the singles match was a new match.