Arg's Travel Log

[So_Cal]

5 hours ago, mci711 said:

 

How could anyone complain about firm and fast fairways.. Thats how golf should be played. 

It’s so rare and fun to play courses in that condition.  It should be cherished. 

[postfold]

7 hours ago, cassel191919 said:

That is surprising, must be member complaints lol. Can't wait to get out there Friday.

 

6 hours ago, mci711 said:

 

How could anyone complain about firm and fast fairways.. Thats how golf should be played. 

 

The course owners I know say they get far more complaints about things not being green than anything else, so they run the sprinklers. 

 

I'm not one of those people, firm and fast is fun, who cares if it's brown.

 

Looking forward to a Black Lake report, that's one course I have not ventured to.  That and everything in the U.P.

[Hickory4ever]

9 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

A very enjoyable walk this morning. Temperatures dropped last night, so it was back to pants with a north breeze coming off the lake. Belvedere GC today. The 98 year old course ranks #8 on GolfWeek's best in state list. Sorry, but I don't see it as a top 15. Nice old school prairie/parkland layout with fun greens, but it's very forgettable. The clubhouse sits on a ridge, so the first and 7th holes play down/up. The remainder of the front is dead flat. The back is a little more rolling, but still relatively flat. Two dogleg par 5s, and one short 4. There's a pond on the back, but it's not really in play. A small creek crossed several holes, but the native areas are the biggest obstacle if you're wild. Bunkering was on the light side, which was no surp for an old course. 

 

Very generous off the tee. Grip it and rip it. Rough was a decent height, so minor misses were no worry. Big misses would find the native areas, or OB along the perimeter. Like Sundance, the native areas were rather wispy, so balls could be found. Approaches were generally straightforward, but a couple of greens were elevated and/or well guarded. Most holes had plenty of room in front to run it up. Greens were quite large for such an old course. Up and downs and putting were challenging due to the contouring on the putting surface. Not Roth crazy, but plenty of double breakers. There were a few closely mown areas that provided options. 

 

Par 3s were decent, but not much to look at. Good mix of lengths. 5s were disappointing. Three were reachable, but no risk. Sole short 4 was tricky with a narrow elevated green. 

 

Conditions were good. Fairways were a little brown in spots, but they had the sprinklers going full force early, and they were playing rather soft. Rough was very nice. Bunkers had plenty of sand, but were in need of grooming. Greens were excellent. Speed was a good 10. 

 

Played the White tees at 6285 yds (70.4/128). Staffer told me it plays 400 yds longer due to the elevation changes. Don't know about that. Maybe 200 yds? Settling into a nice groove. Driver has been solid. Irons decent, but the contours played havoc with the approaches. Two birdies and six bogies. Highlight of the round was a wicked 7 wood on the par 5 15th to within 15 feet to set up an eagle opportunity. Burned the edge and settled for a tap in birdie. 

 

Going to be a curmudgeon and give this one 5 cows. Greens are fun, but too little trouble off the tee. Needs more trouble on the short 5s. Definitely worth a visit, but wouldn't be in a hurry to get back. 

 

Argonne, you were playing the wrong clubs for Belvedere. It is the site of one of the best hickory events in North America and everyone that goes there raves about it. I wish that I was there with you, my trusty Tom Stewarts in hand. I hope they never change the design, the old girl was meant for hickory.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Hickory4ever

[mci711]

51 minutes ago, So_Cal said:

It’s so rare and fun to play courses in that condition.  It should be cherished. 

 

Overwatering courses in the US is a massive problem. People think bright green means good. We'd save a lot of water and the courses would be so much better. 

[So_Cal]

1 hour ago, mci711 said:

 

Overwatering courses in the US is a massive problem. People think bright green means good. We'd save a lot of water and the courses would be so much better. 

Fortunately in my part of the country there’s not enough water to get it green.  Some courses have grasses that allow firm and fast.  Back east I’ve noticed only the best courses play like that, but those that do are spectacular.  Really impressive work by the greens staff. 

[BG5]

I agree with you Arg....I have never understood the love for Belvedere.....sure its a nice track....but alot of people claim its one of the best courses anywhere....never understood why it gets so much love

[Chanceman]

Arg I assume you are you going up to Marquette and play Greywalls? I would be interested in the bar scene up there. 

[Argonne69]

3 hours ago, Chanceman said:

Arg I assume you are you going up to Marquette and play Greywalls? I would be interested in the bar scene up there. 

 

Yes, I booked rounds at Greywalls and Heritage for next week on Thursday and Friday. I'll probably play the NMU course for my 3rd round. Got a bit scared when I checked out the online teesheet for Greywalls and didn't see an open tee time until 4:15 pm. I called the pro shop, and they were able to get me in at 7:45 am. Don't know why some booking engines don't show available slots for single players.

 

Looks to be a vibrant brewpub scene up there. Looking forward to it.

 

[Jose c.]

Loved greywalls, but Loved Marquette even more. The beer and food scene were excellent. 

[Argonne69]

Wonderful morning. Cool, but clear skies. Mosquitoes were a royal pain until the breeze picked up, and then the redwing blackbirds started buzzing me on my back nine. Lol. Worse than the skeeters. Got lucky with the mandatory cart policy today. The head pro was in the shop when I checked in, and the staffer working the register wasn't buying my plea to walk the course. The pro stepped in and said he'd make an exception today given that I was the first one out and that the next group was teeing off 20 minutes behind me. Finished in 3 hours. Very much appreciated. 

 

Hidden River Golf and Casting Club today. Hidden is right. Seemed like total isolation. The course ranks #15 in the state by GolfWeek. Again, just don't see it. Very nice looking parkland/prairie/wetlands style layout. Gorgeous tall pines lining many holes on the back. The front had a handful of parkland holes, but the 4th through 8th were prairie/wetland style with a couple of large ponds in play. Fairly flat course, but there were a couple of elevated tees. Bunkering was on the light side. Water, native areas, and trees provided the biggest defenses. A couple of sweepers, but no real doglegs. 

 

Fairly open off the tee, but there were a couple of moderate forced carries. Rough was light, so minor misses could find trouble. Big misses were wet or lost in the woods. Approaches were benign. Decent sized greens with moderate bunkering. Many were at fairway level so balls could be run up. Up and downs were straightforward. Greens were fairly boring. Not even close to the fun at Belvedere. 

 

Par 3s were meh. The 9th had a nice view from the elevated tee. 5s were boring. The two were reachable, but no risk. The 7th was a long sweeper with wetlands on the inside corner for the first two shots, and water on the right after that, but the fairway was super generous. Short 4s were ho hum. Can't seem to find a designer willing to put some teeth into them. 

 

Conditions were decent. Once again they had the sprinklers going full force. Opening holes had water coming to the surface on practically every step. Started to dry out by the end of the round. Rough was low. Native area were rather lush. Bunkers needed grooming. Greens were nice, hand rolling near 10. 

 

Played the Blue/White combo at 6239 yds (70.1/127). Same ol, same ol. One birdie and six bogies. 

 

I was leaning six, but I can't say it's a better course than Belvedere, so it's 5 cows again. Beautiful piece of property, but they just didn't do much with the layout. Too many boring holes with boring green complexes. Most of the front nine are throwaway holes. $99 was overpriced for a weekday round. Probably worth a play, but I wouldn't rush to get there. 

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Argonne69

[Argonne69]

Hidden River Golf and Casting Club, Brutus, MI (#10 start) 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Full photo set: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/h8gd23ithbw9ifh/AAD0Hyif3gDZpd-zkf6o_lRIa?dl=0

 

[Argonne69]

Petoskey Brewing Company. 18 taps with the usual stuff. Had a sample of their barleywine and coconut porter. Both tasty, but the Horny Monk Belgian Dubbel is more up my alley. 

 

 

The Signature Smashburger wasn't bad. 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2023 by Argonne69

[TBD203]

Hey Arg - question I have been mulling over this season. Do you think that playing early in the morning costs you a few strokes per round? I know it's dependent on the course, but for instance my course has very generous fairways, but there's fescue lurking on quite a few holes. By mid day you can hit out of the fescue, at least marginally. In the morning if your ball is not sitting up incredibly luckily you are happy to hack it out a few yards. 

 

My usual foursome believes we're hurting ourselves when there are weekend events at the club where we play at 7:00am and some groups go out after noon. I tried telling them to hit the fairway but they don't listen.

[Argonne69]

27 minutes ago, TBD203 said:

Hey Arg - question I have been mulling over this season. Do you think that playing early in the morning costs you a few strokes per round? I know it's dependent on the course, but for instance my course has very generous fairways, but there's fescue lurking on quite a few holes. By mid day you can hit out of the fescue, at least marginally. In the morning if your ball is not sitting up incredibly luckily you are happy to hack it out a few yards. 

 

My usual foursome believes we're hurting ourselves when there are weekend events at the club where we play at 7:00am and some groups go out after noon. I tried telling them to hit the fairway but they don't listen.

 

Great question. I'm fairly certain that early morning rounds cost me strokes, but not because of the fescue, as I rarely send a tee shot into the native areas. 

 

I lose a lot of distance off the tee due to the wet fairways caused by the dew or aggressive watering. Also, wet, slow greens generally mean leaving putts short early in the round. Seem to get the ball to the hole once the moisture burns off. 

 

There's also the maintenance staff. Obviously they have a job to do, and playing quickly as a solo player brings them into play more often. It seems it's always in your head when they're out there in the fairway, and it's not uncommon for me to consciously or unconsciously play away from them, which sometimes gets me in trouble. Happened this morning. Sweeper left, and there's a staffer grooming the right fairway bunker. Trees left, so cutting the corner is probably not a good idea, but I didn't want to send one right toward the bunker. Of course I could have waited 5 minutes for him to finish, but instead I hit a low draw left that managed to find the fairway, but didn't get much rollout. 

 

On the flipside, I tend to play better when I get into a rhythm with little or no waiting. Waiting on every single shot gets to me quickly. 

 

Edited June 8, 2023 by Argonne69

[TheBear95]

40 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Great question. I'm fairly certain that early morning rounds cost me strokes, but not because of the fescue, as I rarely send a tee shot into the native areas. 

 

I lose a lot of distance off the tee due to the wet fairways caused by the dew or aggressive watering. Also, wet, slow greens generally mean leaving putts short early in the round. Seem to get the ball to the hole once the moisture burns off. 

 

There's also the maintenance staff. Obviously they have a job to do, and playing quickly as a solo player brings them into play more often. It seems it's always in your head when they're out there in the fairway, and it's not uncommon for me to consciously or unconsciously play away from them, which sometimes gets me in trouble. Happened this morning. Sweeper left, and there's a staffer grooming the right fairway bunker. Trees left, so cutting the corner is probably not a good idea, but I didn't want to send one right toward the bunker. Of course I could have waited 5 minutes for him to finish, but instead I hit a low draw left that managed to find the fairway, but didn't get much rollout. 

 

On the flipside, I tend to play better when I get into a rhythm with little or no waiting. Waiting on every single shot gets to me quickly. 

 

 

It is an interesting question for us dew sweepers. I'll trade extra rollout for minimal waiting every time. Rhythm is just too important for me. Waiting on every shot kills my legs and is mentally exhausting. My scores in my non-early rounds without a doubt reflect this.

[mci711]

There are also benefits to play when it is softer/damp. I'd imagine between that and tempo/pace there is very little difference. 

[Lobby]

"Fairways too wide and landing areas too generous" is not something I've ever said.

In my life.

🙂

[TBD203]

Weirdly enough, two of my best scores in years came on my home course on random weekday afternoons in the last month after I left the office. And I thought that staying in rhythm and playing fast was hugely important to my game prior. 

Edited June 8, 2023 by TBD203

[Dancin]

The biggest hurdle for me when playing early is adjusting to the greens speeding up during the round as they dry out from the morning watering. That always costs me a couple strokes on putts I end up blowing past the pins when the greens start getting faster.

[TBone0576]

17 hours ago, TheBear95 said:

 

It is an interesting question for us dew sweepers. I'll trade extra rollout for minimal waiting every time. Rhythm is just too important for me. Waiting on every shot kills my legs and is mentally exhausting. My scores in my non-early rounds without a doubt reflect this.

I tend to agree with this.  My group has a standing 6am tee time and usually tee off 10 minutes before that when we can.  Being able to go at our own pace has been really nice.  Sometimes wet conditions can keep your ball from getting into some tough spots so that seems to be a bit of a wash.  Hardest thing is playing and having the first handful of greens mowed and then playing the next group of holes that haven't been cut before hitting the back where they are done again.  Minor gripe overall.  

[ode1]

On 6/7/2023 at 5:40 PM, So_Cal said:

It’s so rare and fun to play courses in that condition.  It should be cherished. 

Typically the best of both worlds with firm and fast coupled with the greens needing to be watered enough to keep em going so they are still receptive enough.  Loving it!

[Argonne69]

I'm getting spoiled by this weather and having the courses practically to myself. Cool and sunny again today. Wonderful. The Moor course at The Highlands. Looks like they dropped "Boyne" from the name. Very nice parkland layout. Not much elevation change, but plenty of left/right play. Lol. I've been complaining about courses with too much straight ahead play, but this one is the opposite. I believe the majority of the course are sweepers and doglegs. Fairway bunkering was light, but greenside was very good. Water in play on a couple of holes, including two ponds on the S shaped par 5 18th. Nice that the course allows walking. 

 

Fairly challenging off the tee. Fairways are somewhat generous, but the doglegs and sweepers require precision. Had a could of nice drives leave me staring at a large tree on the line to the pin. Several short 4s require less than driver, or shaping a shot 30 yds to avoid running through the fairway. Minor misses could still find trouble with the thin rough. The trees were sparse on most holes, so big misses could be playable, but may leave just a punch out back to the fairway. Approaches were a mixed bag. A number of greens were sizeable with openings in front. Others were well guarded. Up and downs were generally benign if you played short. Otherwise there were plenty of opportunities to short side yourself. Putting was straightforward, but not necessarily easy. No crazy breaks, but enough movement to get one thinking. 

 

Par 3s were meh. Nice mix of lengths, but nothing overly challenging. 5s were mixed. The 8th and 18th were very good risk/reward holes. The 8th was a dogleg left with a big tree in the middle of the fairway, and a marsh on the corner. Thread a drive through the gap and one had a shot at the green. However, there was yet another tree in the way, and a small pond to deal with. Heck, laying up was tough because one has to hook the ball around the 2nd tree to have a wedge in. The 500 yd S shaped 18th was reachable in two if one flirted with the edge of the left pond, but you'd still have to hit a big cut around the trees on the inside corner of the 2nd bend, as well as carry the right side pond. Short 4s were decent because they were all doglegs or sweepers that required precision off the tee. 

 

Conditions were basically the same. Sprinklers going full force left the fairways soft. Rough was thin and patchy. Bunkers had plenty of sand, and had been raked, but I really hate when they don't bust up the sand. Greens were very nice and rolling at least 10. Might have been closer to 11 after the water burned off. 

 

Played the Orange tees at 6236 yds (70.7/133). Deja vu all over again. Solid driver and spotty iron play. Wedges let me down on the par 5s. Six bogies. 

 

I was leaning towards five cows, but I think I'll give it 6. Enjoyed the variety of the holes. Could use some elevation change, more bunkering, and tougher par 3s. At $147 it's seriously overpriced. Worth a visit, but no way I'd ever pay that for a second visit. Good course if you're at the resort to play Hills and/or Ross and need to add another round, but it's not a day to day play. 

 

[Argonne69]

The Moor course at The Highlands, Harbor Springs, MI 

 

 

 

Go or no-go on the par 5 8th 

 

 

 

 

Go or no-go on the 18th 

 

 

Full photo set: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qnjz6m23ln72ey3/AAC2W9EfUa1oFGLHSmKDAj8Aa?dl=0

 

 

[Argonne69]

Didn't want to have an early lunch, but the local brewpubs open at 11:30, so I headed east to Rusty Saw North in Brutus for a blueberry wheat beer and some BBQ. Burnt ends are excellent. Pulled pork is very dry. Hard pass. Brisket is a little lean, but very tender and tasty. Slaw and beans are better than average. Sauce is sweet and tangy. Very nice. 

 

 

 

[CMCSGolf]

3 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

I'm getting spoiled by this weather and having the courses practically to myself. Cool and sunny again today. Wonderful. The Moor course at The Highlands. Looks like they dropped "Boyne" from the name. Very nice parkland layout. Not much elevation change, but plenty of left/right play. Lol. I've been complaining about courses with too much straight ahead play, but this one is the opposite. I believe the majority of the course are sweepers and doglegs. Fairway bunkering was light, but greenside was very good. Water in play on a couple of holes, including two ponds on the S shaped par 5 18th. Nice that the course allows walking. 

 

Fairly challenging off the tee. Fairways are somewhat generous, but the doglegs and sweepers require precision. Had a could of nice drives leave me staring at a large tree on the line to the pin. Several short 4s require less than driver, or shaping a shot 30 yds to avoid running through the fairway. Minor misses could still find trouble with the thin rough. The trees were sparse on most holes, so big misses could be playable, but may leave just a punch out back to the fairway. Approaches were a mixed bag. A number of greens were sizeable with openings in front. Others were well guarded. Up and downs were generally benign if you played short. Otherwise there were plenty of opportunities to short side yourself. Putting was straightforward, but not necessarily easy. No crazy breaks, but enough movement to get one thinking. 

 

Par 3s were meh. Nice mix of lengths, but nothing overly challenging. 5s were mixed. The 8th and 18th were very good risk/reward holes. The 8th was a dogleg left with a big tree in the middle of the fairway, and a marsh on the corner. Thread a drive through the gap and one had a shot at the green. However, there was yet another tree in the way, and a small pond to deal with. Heck, laying up was tough because one has to hook the ball around the 2nd tree to have a wedge in. The 500 yd S shaped 18th was reachable in two if one flirted with the edge of the left pond, but you'd still have to hit a big cut around the trees on the inside corner of the 2nd bend, as well as carry the right side pond. Short 4s were decent because they were all doglegs or sweepers that required precision off the tee. 

 

Conditions were basically the same. Sprinklers going full force left the fairways soft. Rough was thin and patchy. Bunkers had plenty of sand, and had been raked, but I really hate when they don't bust up the sand. Greens were very nice and rolling at least 10. Might have been closer to 11 after the water burned off. 

 

Played the Orange tees at 6236 yds (70.7/133). Deja vu all over again. Solid driver and spotty iron play. Wedges let me down on the par 5s. Six bogies. 

 

I was leaning towards five cows, but I think I'll give it 6. Enjoyed the variety of the holes. Could use some elevation change, more bunkering, and tougher par 3s. At $147 it's seriously overpriced. Worth a visit, but no way I'd ever pay that for a second visit. Good course if you're at the resort to play Hills and/or Ross and need to add another round, but it's not a day to day play. 

 

Arg, love the thread and reviews of your travels along the way, but I gotta ask - How in the world is the Moor rated higher than Belvedere? 😁 Yes, everyone has preferences and while I really liked Belvedere, I would never say it's a truly top tier course.

 

There are certainly some flat and forgettable holes at Belvedere (#2, #5, #18), but #1, #6, #7, #10, #16 are really fun holes in my opinion.  Almost everything I remember about the Moor is flat with way too many trees encroaching, where Belvedere has some really fun holes.

 

If I infer from your review, it seems like you really appreciated the challenge of the Moor with some tricky and tight shots to navigate.  

[Argonne69]

7 minutes ago, CMCSGolf said:

Arg, love the thread and reviews of your travels along the way, but I gotta ask - How in the world is the Moor rated higher than Belvedere? 😁 Yes, everyone has preferences and while I really liked Belvedere, I would never say it's a truly top tier course.

 

There are certainly some flat and forgettable holes at Belvedere (#2, #5, #18), but #1, #6, #7, #10, #16 are really fun holes in my opinion.  Almost everything I remember about the Moor is flat with way too many trees encroaching, where Belvedere has some really fun holes.

 

If I infer from your review, it seems like you really appreciated the challenge of the Moor with some tricky and tight shots to navigate.  

 

That's why I was originally leaning towards 5 cows. I was thinking to myself, is it better than Belvedere or Hidden River? Close call, but the challenge off the tee gave it the extra cow, along with the risk/reward fives. Definitely preferred the greens on Belv.

 

'Probably should have knocked off one for the price. No way The Moor is a $150 course.

 

[Argonne69]

A mostly pleasant morning. Cloudy and humid, with a chance of scattered rain. Thankfully the light rain didn't hit until the drive back to Petoskey. Would have been a really nice morning walking the course, but unfortunately I got stuck behind two clowns who didn't know how to use a cart, and refused to let me play through. All the talk about walkers slowing down play, why not require a written test to be given the keys to a golf cart. Sitting in the cart watching your playing partner hit, and then driving 20 yds across the fairway to your ball sitting in the bunker is not ready golf. 

 

Anyway, Black Lake GC today. Definitely worth the hour drive east from Petoskey, but this Rees Jones design left me a little wanting. Beautiful piece of northwoods property. Certainly felt like northern Michigan with the rolling hills and pine trees. Bunkering just wasn't up to Rees' usual standards. Very good on some holes, but too light on others, e.g. #18. Greenside bunkering was very good, though. A couple of sweepers, but a little too much straight ahead. Water on just a couple of holes. The tee markers have "UAW" logos on them. I assume the course is owned by the United Auto Workers union? 

 

Moderately difficult off the tee. Nothing fancy here. What you see is what you get. The trees don't really pinch the fairways, but you know that a miss is going to be costly. Rough was fairly narrow for the most part, but it was thick enough to catch minor misses. Big misses were lost in the backwoods. Approaches were also moderately difficult. Some of the greens were wide open in front, but others required an aerial attack. Up and down were tough due to the thick rough around the greens. Greens had some decent contouring, but nothing crazy. Didn't sweat a single lag putt all day. 

 

Par 3s were very good. Nice looks from elevated tees with plenty of trouble lurking. 5s were mixed. The 15th was by far the best of the bunch. A solid risk/reward hole with the green tucked behind a pond. To make it even tougher you couldn't see the green from 200 yds out as a line of trees along the front edge of the pond hid the flag. Of course I chickened out and layed up. The 1st was also reachable with a pond on the front left. The 18th was just a bad finishing hole. Long, but no real danger. Short 4s were meh. The dogleg 11th was solid with a forced carry, and a narrow fairway with the risk of running through. 

 

Conditions were OK. Fairways were once again soft from the early morning sprinkler fest. A few spotty areas. Rough was quite thick. Bunkers had plenty of sand, but for the love of all that is holy, would it kill the maintenance crew to actually break up the sand instead of simply dragging a rake across the surface? Greens were fine for the most part, but there were a few stressed areas. Speed was decent at close to 10. I asked the starter about the green speeds, and he said they were maybe 8. Oy. On the first green I gave it a pop and ran it 12 feet past. Lol. We need to work on our stimp reading. 

 

Played the White tees at 6391 yds (71.9/137). No idea where that slope comes from. The soft fairways ate me up again. When you're a low ball hitter, 220 yd drives with practically zero rollout is no fun. One birdie and six bogies. Highlight was stuffing a 9 iron to 3 feet on the par 4 17th. Otherwise the wedges were once again taking the day off. Had a few nice up and downs. 

 

I'll give BL a solid 6 cows. Beautiful piece of property, although the local resident with the chainsaw on the back nine somewhat spoiled the tranquility. Lol. Definitely expected tougher bunkering from Rees. That said, it certainly worth the drive from Petoskey. Can't imagine that Highlands Heather is better. $85 was solid. 

 

Edited June 10, 2023 by Argonne69

[Argonne69]

Black Lake GC, Onaway, MI 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Go or no-go on the 15th 

 

 

Full photo set: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mv4mqbrzuep5ma7/AAAdlUlpNIYrPzumggwuE8HIa?dl=0

 

[Argonne69]

Tap30 in Petoskey. 30 taps, but IPA and sour heavy. I do like Founders KBS BBA stout, and it's been a while since I had it on tap. Much better than bottled beer. 

 

 

[Argonne69]

Mitchell Street Pub, right next door to Tap30. Seems to be more of a local watering hole, but they do have 20 taps and a very nice looking moose. The Petoskey Brewing Horny Monk Belgian Dubbel is once again quite tasty.