8 or 7 iron X100 for "Spinner" wedge shaft

[Adam C]

Working on testing out this spinner wedge shaft idea using an X100. But I am wondering does it make more sense to use a 7 iron shaft compared to the 8 since the 8 is only one step off of the current wedge shaft I think. 37 inch for 9-LW. 2 steps would therefore point to the 7. Thoughts on this??

[Phabs]

I’ve done this twice and currently have a set with PX 6.0 8 iron shafts in a set of Nike wedges. Never thought about going to a 7 iron, wonder how the kick point/weight differs after they’re soft steeped so far.  

[tbone18]

I believe the spinner shaft is a wedge specific shaft and won't come in any other length than 37" or whatever it is. 

[Howard_Jones]

10 hours ago, Adam C said:

Working on testing out this spinner wedge shaft idea using an X100. But I am wondering does it make more sense to use a 7 iron shaft compared to the 8 since the 8 is only one step off of the current wedge shaft I think. 37 inch for 9-LW. 2 steps would therefore point to the 7. Thoughts on this??

The idea of the concept as we think of it now, is reduction of SPIN LOFT
That means it really does not matter what shaft you use, but it has to be a shaft that deliver LESS dynamic loft than your PW shaft, what ever shaft that might be.

The idea came from RIFLE, using 7.0 #8 shafts for 6.0 players, thats why we "say", go 1 full flex stronger and SS1, but we really dont have to go that strong, only stronger than the PW and spin will go up and launch down.

As example, Project X players will see lower flight and more spin going only half a flex stronger and to the #8 (6.0 irons, 6.5 #8 for wedge and PX has a dedicated PW, while DG dont)

So.....if a X100 #7 is stronger than the shaft you play as PW, you can use it. 

[Adam C]

6 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

The idea of the concept as we think of it now, is reduction of SPIN LOFT
That means it really does not matter what shaft you use, but it has to be a shaft that deliver LESS dynamic loft than your PW shaft, what ever shaft that might be.

The idea came from RIFLE, using 7.0 #8 shafts for 6.0 players, thats why we "say", go 1 full flex stronger and SS1, but we really dont have to go that strong, only stronger than the PW and spin will go up and launch down.

As example, Project X players will see lower flight and more spin going only half a flex stronger and to the #8 (6.0 irons, 6.5 #8 for wedge and PX has a dedicated PW, while DG dont)

So.....if a X100 #7 is stronger than the shaft you play as PW, you can use it. 

Howard, now you've got me a bit confused. My thinking was that the idea in the 8 iron method is that you are moving into a shaft with a longer tip section thereby giving you more flex while the stiffer flex keeps the handle stiffer, and also gives more support to the added head weight in the SW vs 8 iron. This could give you more spin, and more launch also if not swung correctly.

 

If I am reading your answer correctly, you are saying that it's actually a stiffer shaft that provides the increased spin?

[Howard_Jones]

23 minutes ago, Adam C said:

Howard, now you've got me a bit confused. My thinking was that the idea in the 8 iron method is that you are moving into a shaft with a longer tip section thereby giving you more flex while the stiffer flex keeps the handle stiffer, and also gives more support to the added head weight in the SW vs 8 iron. This could give you more spin, and more launch also if not swung correctly.

 

If I am reading your answer correctly, you are saying that it's actually a stiffer shaft that provides the increased spin?

For WEDGES, a stiffer shaft delivers more spin.

Trackman said that the curves for spin turned at about 45* of spin loft, i found that inaccurate (its in the area of 50-52 of spin loft), but thats not important here. Whats important is that when we have loft as high as wedges (GW and higher) with the "new" grooves, the grooves no longer help us to make traction to the ball, so the ball starts to skid up on the face (lack of ball compression). The result is higher launch and less spin.

The OG True Temper DG Spinner was made with this knowledge in mind, so it has a silly stiff tip to mid, and then the "bend point zone" right below the grip to give it some sensation of flex and bending without adding any dynamic loft. Thats why launch goes down, and spin goes up on the same time.

The #8 iron spinner trick (1 full flex stronger, then SS to the #8) gives a shaft that in most cases is in the area of a "dedicated GW" shaft, so it should feel like a "natural extension" to the iron set.

DG S300 irons and DG X100 #8 for wedge is a mix like that.

The longest tread here on WRX on this subject is from 2012, so its not exactly news how this works
so read a few of the posts there from others i guided back then, and what they got out of it.
Most of the players who is used to DG wedgeflex and try a X100 #8 will never use anything but DGX #8 for wedges in the future.

The #8 iron spinner trick is often mixed up with "Tiger stepping" who is a slang word for tip trimming of taper tip shafts.
 

 

[LiLTW2005]

Howard_Jones, how can I do this if I am playing KBS C-Taper 130 X or KBS Tour 130 X?

[Howard_Jones]

56 minutes ago, LiLTW2005 said:

Howard_Jones, how can I do this if I am playing KBS C-Taper 130 X or KBS Tour 130 X?

IF there was a TX option you could do it, but there aint, so the only way to get a stiffer 130X is by tip trim or whats called "Tiger stepping", who is hard stepping of taper tip shafts by tip trim.
Most hosels accept 3/8" without insert issues, while more than that might make a need for a ream job to 0.370 to get full insert.'

 

'Another option is to get a DG Tour X7 #8 iron shaft



Adam (the OP) have now made a video with side by side test of DG S400 #9 vs X100 #8
 

 

[LiLTW2005]

So if I understand correctly, I would order C-Taper or Tour 130x shaft in 7 iron, tip it 3/8” to make it one flex stronger 8 iron, and then install and butt trim to desired playing length?

 

I actually watched this video as a subscriber to his channel which is why the curiousity of revisiting this idea again arose.

Edited December 4, 2021 by LiLTW2005

[lvgolfer962]

Great video Adam. 
 

Was really surprised how much more spin the high speed player gained. 
 

Since you can increase spin with a stiffer shaft. Is there any shaft tricks to take spin off a wedge?  

[Howard_Jones]

6 hours ago, LiLTW2005 said:

So if I understand correctly, I would order C-Taper or Tour 130x shaft in 7 iron, tip it 3/8” to make it one flex stronger 8 iron, and then install and butt trim to desired playing length?

 

I actually watched this video as a subscriber to his channel which is why the curiousity of revisiting this idea again arose.

NO, that will not give you a shaft thats stronger than your PW, but a softer shaft, so starting point would have to be a PW we tip trim, and for models where the #9 and PW uses the same shaft, starting point would be the #9.

[Howard_Jones]

6 hours ago, lvgolfer962 said:

Great video Adam. 
 

Was really surprised how much more spin the high speed player gained. 
 

Since you can increase spin with a stiffer shaft. Is there any shaft tricks to take spin off a wedge?  

You answered your own question .....go softer

[Seamus_McDuff]

So where would a tip trimmed S400 #9 fit in here? Would it fall between the two as far as spin or would it have even more spin than the X100 #8?

[Howard_Jones]

12 minutes ago, Seamus_McDuff said:

So where would a tip trimmed S400 #9 fit in here? Would it fall between the two as far as spin or would it have even more spin than the X100 #8?

For each 1/8" of tip trim, we stiffen up the shaft by 1 CPM, so it would take 7/8" to get to the same BUTT flex as a X100 #8, but we would still have a longer, and softer tip section.

Strait in the difference is 1.5" between S400 #9 and X100 #8, so even tip trimmed 7/8" and the same butt flex, we still have 5/8" longer tip on the S400, so we can never make them "equal"

That means the normal 3/8" of tip trim we can do without hosel reaming is a slight adjustment against stronger and more spin in a wedge, but far from where we ends if we simply go X100 #8 strait in

Edited December 4, 2021 by Howard_Jones

[LukeDonaldsTiger]

Thanks Howard, this is a revelation. I’m fighting high flight with my wedges and, until now, thought S400 is the way to go (playing DG120 X100 in irons) as many tour players playing X100 are using S400 in their wedges. 
Will try to find X7 8i shafts and start to experiment. 

[Howard_Jones]

38 minutes ago, LukeDonaldsTiger said:

Thanks Howard, this is a revelation. I’m fighting high flight with my wedges and, until now, thought S400 is the way to go (playing DG120 X100 in irons) as many tour players playing X100 are using S400 in their wedges. 
Will try to find X7 8i shafts and start to experiment. 

Many tour players generate to much spin, and they know how to get ball flight down when needed, and some just play it since they always have, so its not always smart to copy what tour players use.

As example, Sørend Kjeldsen from Denmark is member of the same local golf club as i was, and i meet him by coincident in the PROs backroom where he changed a iron shaft himself. He did not bother to check loft and lie, he did not check swing weight or anything, it was a strait forward "cut & glue job" who made me ask questions to it. His answer was, if it dont feel right, i will adjust with lead tape on the head, and if flight aint right, ill just get back in here and adjust it.

His friend and the PRO in the club came to me for both fitting and tweaks, so dont think for a second that being a professional player is the same a equipment knowledge, or that its for "logical reasons" they play a certain shaft like S400 for wedges.

Try X7 #8 iron shafts if you want ball flight down and more stopping power.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Howard_Jones

[Alan Pllu]

43 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

Many tour players generate to much spin, and they know how to get ball flight down when needed, and some just play it since they always have, so its not always smart to copy what tour players use.

As example, Sørend Kjeldsen from Denmark is member of the same local golf club as i was, and i meet him by coincident in the PROs backroom where he changed a iron shaft himself. He did not bother to check loft and lie, he did not check swing weight or anything, it was a strait forward "cut & glue job" who made me ask questions to it. His answer was, if it dont feel right, i will adjust with lead tape on the head, and if flight aint right, ill just get back in here and adjust it.

His friend and the PRO in the club came to me for both fitting and tweaks, so dont think for a second that being a professional player is the same a equipment knowledge, or that its for "logical reasons" they play a certain shaft like S400 for wedges.

Try X7 #8 iron shafts if you want ball flight down and more stopping power.

Thats an interesting story Howard, just goes to show that some of the best in the game just go by feel still and don't rely on what should be right by the textbook. 

 

You mention x7 8 iron shafts with the post you quoted, would this be the way to go when playing dynamic gold 120 X100 in the irons? Fancy testing this myself over the winter. 

[Howard_Jones]

17 minutes ago, Alan Pllu said:

Thats an interesting story Howard, just goes to show that some of the best in the game just go by feel still and don't rely on what should be right by the textbook. 

 

You mention x7 8 iron shafts with the post you quoted, would this be the way to go when playing dynamic gold 120 X100 in the irons? Fancy testing this myself over the winter. 

YES.....

A irons to R #8 for wedge
R irons to S #8 for wedge
S irons to X #8 for wedge
X irons to TX #8 for wedge

same same...the shaft will deliver less dynamic loft, launch goes down and spin goes up

I should not have to mention it, but this is all using the same model series of shaft, so if you try to mix different shaft models, i cant tell how that will work, since there aint no standard for flex letters, they are only valid within the same model series like this is based on.

[Alan Pllu]

12 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

YES.....

A irons to R #8 for wedge
R irons to S #8 for wedge
S irons to X #8 for wedge
X irons to TX #8 for wedge

same same...the shaft will deliver less dynamic loft, launch goes down and spin goes up

I should not have to mention it, but this is all using the same model series of shaft, so if you try to mix different shaft models, i cant tell how that will work, since there aint no standard for flex letters, they are only valid within the same model series like this is based on.

Excellent thanks Howard. I'll give this a try over the winter. 

[62@Oakmont]

1 hour ago, Howard_Jones said:

YES.....

A irons to R #8 for wedge
R irons to S #8 for wedge
S irons to X #8 for wedge
X irons to TX #8 for wedge

same same...the shaft will deliver less dynamic loft, launch goes down and spin goes up

I should not have to mention it, but this is all using the same model series of shaft, so if you try to mix different shaft models, i cant tell how that will work, since there aint no standard for flex letters, they are only valid within the same model series like this is based on.

Howard, similar question as to what you answered here.

 

If we are already in X flex in the irons of a particular shaft model and no TX is available- would we go up to the next weight class in #8 of the same/similar shaft?

 

For example- Modus 115 X in the irons, go Modus 125 X #8 in wedges?

 

Thanks!

[Howard_Jones]

58 minutes ago, 62@Oakmont said:

Howard, similar question as to what you answered here.

 

If we are already in X flex in the irons of a particular shaft model and no TX is available- would we go up to the next weight class in #8 of the same/similar shaft?

 

For example- Modus 115 X in the irons, go Modus 125 X #8 in wedges?

 

Thanks!

Only If Modus 125 has a tip section thats a full flex stronger than 115, and i dont have specs for 115 so i have no idea how they are compared.

[Seamus_McDuff]

1 hour ago, 62@Oakmont said:

Howard, similar question as to what you answered here.

 

If we are already in X flex in the irons of a particular shaft model and no TX is available- would we go up to the next weight class in #8 of the same/similar shaft?

 

For example- Modus 115 X in the irons, go Modus 125 X #8 in wedges?

 

Thanks!

 

Very similar to what I was wondering and why I asked about tip trimming. 
 

I play Modus 105X soft stepped once in my irons and am going to be ordering new wedges soon(50, 55, 59 or 50, 54, 58). Plan is to order them with 105X but am thinking about tip trimming the SW and LW. 

[Alan Pllu]

30 minutes ago, Seamus_McDuff said:

 

Very similar to what I was wondering and why I asked about tip trimming. 
 

I play Modus 105X soft stepped once in my irons and am going to be ordering new wedges soon(50, 55, 59 or 50, 54, 58). Plan is to order them with 105X but am thinking about tip trimming the SW and LW. 

Don't try a modus 105X 8i shaft in the wedges. I tried it in my 58 when I used modus 105X in my irons and it felt horrible. Club was too light and just didn't work for me. 

[62@Oakmont]

2 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

Only If Modus 125 has a tip section thats a full flex stronger than 115, and i dont have specs for 115 so i have no idea how they are compared.

Thank you! 
 

I’m clueless when it comes to things that technical, but here is a chart from Nippon’s site showing the 115 profile vs. the others, but it’s pretty generic:

 

[62@Oakmont]

53 minutes ago, Alan Pllu said:

Don't try a modus 105X 8i shaft in the wedges. I tried it in my 58 when I used modus 105X in my irons and it felt horrible. Club was too light and just didn't work for me. 

That’s what I’m concerned about too. I already have AWT 2.0 in my wedges (made be Nippon) which I think Ping lists weight as 118g when cut to length. I definitely know I don’t want to go any lighter than that.

[Howard_Jones]

44 minutes ago, 62@Oakmont said:

Thank you! 
 

I’m clueless when it comes to things that technical, but here is a chart from Nippon’s site showing the 115 profile vs. the others, but it’s pretty generic:

 

I know that, and all it tells is that 115 is stronger than 105 at butt and tip, but we dont get to know how much. Ive looked into my own DB, but dont have the 115 model, its brand new

What we need to make it is a shaft thats a FULL FLEX stronger, and its really related to the TIP section, since thats the one that bends the most.

Here is how the other MODUS models looks like from S to X and that gives a good picture of the difference needed, but in your case, i cant help, since its not about a #8 iron or weight, but a shaft thats stiffer (tip section) and not more than needed, then it will feel all wrong.

Look at the numbers for TIP FREQUENCY and DEFLECTION
Its a difference like we see here from S to X we need to make it.



S400 to X100 as compare - Deflection is the most important (about the same difference as S to X in MODUS)

Edited December 4, 2021 by Howard_Jones

[Seamus_McDuff]

3 hours ago, Alan Pllu said:

Don't try a modus 105X 8i shaft in the wedges. I tried it in my 58 when I used modus 105X in my irons and it felt horrible. Club was too light and just didn't work for me. 

No intention of doing that. I’m ordering my wedges with the 105X shaft meant for a PW. What I am considering is tip trimming those in the SW and LW for a touch more stiffness. I also have two Modus 115 wedge shafts laying around that I could try. 

[62@Oakmont]

2 hours ago, Seamus_McDuff said:

No intention of doing that. I’m ordering my wedges with the 105X shaft meant for a PW. What I am considering is tip trimming those in the SW and LW for a touch more stiffness. I also have two Modus 115 wedge shafts laying around that I could try. 

Beware the Modus 115 Wedge shaft is only 111 grams, and that’s the uncut weight.  So they’ll like be the same or even a little lighter than your 105X shafts which are listed at 112g.

[Seamus_McDuff]

2 hours ago, 62@Oakmont said:

Beware the Modus 115 Wedge shaft is only 111 grams, and that’s the uncut weight.  So they’ll like be the same or even a little lighter than your 105X shafts which are listed at 112g.

 

The 115 wedge specific shafts are 122g. The 105s are 111g. 
 

https://nipponshaft.com/product/steel_modus_wedge.php

[62@Oakmont]

1 hour ago, Seamus_McDuff said:

 

The 115 wedge specific shafts are 122g. The 105s are 111g. 
 

https://nipponshaft.com/product/steel_modus_wedge.php

You’re right my bad 🤦‍♂️.  Guess I need to brush up on my chart reading skillz.