8 or 7 iron X100 for "Spinner" wedge shaft

[Gerr]

What if you play an iron shaft with a known softer tip, could you just switch to a similar shaft with a stiffer tip and lower stated trajectory?  For example, I play the Elevate Tour VSS in Stiff.  This is a mid/high trajectory shaft.  What if I switched to Dynamic Gold 120 8i shaft in my wedges, would I still need X100 or would S300 be better due to the stiffer tip nature of the DG-120's?

[Howard_Jones]

5 hours ago, Gerr said:

What if you play an iron shaft with a known softer tip, could you just switch to a similar shaft with a stiffer tip and lower stated trajectory?  For example, I play the Elevate Tour VSS in Stiff.  This is a mid/high trajectory shaft.  What if I switched to Dynamic Gold 120 8i shaft in my wedges, would I still need X100 or would S300 be better due to the stiffer tip nature of the DG-120's?

If i had all shaft specs for both shaft, i would be able to judge it, but without i cant, so it would be guessing, but you got the point right. We need a stiffer (less bending shaft) for wedge to gain more spin, but in general we should stick to the same profile for feel reasons, only stronger. If we mix different models to get there, we risk ending up with a shaft that dont feel right, and IMO is feel very important for a good short game.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Howard_Jones

[ewaldbeukes]

On 12/4/2021 at 5:49 PM, Howard_Jones said:

YES.....

A irons to R #8 for wedge
R irons to S #8 for wedge
S irons to X #8 for wedge
X irons to TX #8 for wedge

same same...the shaft will deliver less dynamic loft, launch goes down and spin goes up

I should not have to mention it, but this is all using the same model series of shaft, so if you try to mix different shaft models, i cant tell how that will work, since there aint no standard for flex letters, they are only valid within the same model series like this is based on.

I am currently in X100's through my irons and looking to do this on the new T22 wedges from Mizuno. 

 

My options are S400 straight in... I generate good spin but would want to knock down flight and rev up spin a bit. Or would I go:

X100 #8 

X7 #8

 

From he above seems X7 would be the tonic?

[Howard_Jones]

3 minutes ago, ewaldbeukes said:

I am currently in X100's through my irons and looking to do this on the new T22 wedges from Mizuno. 

 

My options are S400 straight in... I generate good spin but would want to knock down flight and rev up spin a bit. Or would I go:

X100 #8 

X7 #8

 

From he above seems X7 would be the tonic?

X7 - #8 if you want the full advantage, but if you play S400 now, both X100 #8 and #9 will lower launch and add spin, but not as much as X7 #8

[ewaldbeukes]

44 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

X7 - #8 if you want the full advantage, but if you play S400 now, both X100 #8 and #9 will lower launch and add spin, but not as much as X7 #8

Thank you! 

 

How much stiffer will X7 play in the wedge? Like a firm S400?

 

[Howard_Jones]

10 minutes ago, ewaldbeukes said:

Thank you! 

 

How much stiffer will X7 play in the wedge? Like a firm S400?

 

NO - way stiffer, and like a X100 GW shaft that dont exist

[ode1]

Apologies for the TJ, but do any of you have a suggestion for me with my shafts the Nippon 1150 S flex......cannot find the X flex anymore!

[Howard_Jones]

1 hour ago, ode said:

Apologies for the TJ, but do any of you have a suggestion for me with my shafts the Nippon 1150 S flex......cannot find the X flex anymore!

I hardly know Nippon shafts, but the shaft model in their line up closest to 1150 would be natural to suggest, and i think @markheardjris the right one to answer what model that would be.

[pdxhak]

Curious for those that like this setup are you doing this with all your wedges? Or just a specific wedge?

[markheardjr]

3 hours ago, ode said:

Apologies for the TJ, but do any of you have a suggestion for me with my shafts the Nippon 1150 S flex......cannot find the X flex anymore!

 

2 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

I hardly know Nippon shafts, but the shaft model in their line up closest to 1150 would be natural to suggest, and i think @markheardjris the right one to answer what model that would be.

 

According to this thread, the 120S is close to 1150. If you go to 120X you gain 4g of weight, which might not be a bad thing in a shortened 8i tiger step wedge experiement. i'd just remind you the 120 is pretty stiff in mid/tip sections and may not produce the spin you're looking for.  Might be worth a try to look at the Modus 115 wedge which is specifically designed to be a wedge shaft and produce lower flight with higher spin.

 

Old thread:

 

[ode1]

8 hours ago, markheardjr said:

 

 

According to this thread, the 120S is close to 1150. If you go to 120X you gain 4g of weight, which might not be a bad thing in a shortened 8i tiger step wedge experiement. i'd just remind you the 120 is pretty stiff in mid/tip sections and may not produce the spin you're looking for.  Might be worth a try to look at the Modus 115 wedge which is specifically designed to be a wedge shaft and produce lower flight with higher spin.

 

Old thread:

 

Thx...the 1150's are interesting as the raw lengths are shorter before trimming vs. the Modus line.  Starting at 35" for the wedges/1150 and 37" for Modus....not sure what that extrapolates out to, but it's significant.

 

And I found this out the hard way the first set of 1150's I ordered🤮

Edited December 8, 2021 by ode1

[ode1]

3 hours ago, markheardjr said:

120 is pretty stiff in mid/tip sections and may not produce the spin you're looking for.  Might be worth a try to look at the Modus 115

 

I've tried the 120, 125, and 130...in test clubs,  so nothing in depth, but not the 115 wedge.....will give it a peak!

[mikehill06]

It's evident the 8 iron "Spinner" trick works for full shots but does this method provide more spin for partial and chip shots? 

[Howard_Jones]

4 minutes ago, mikehill06 said:

It's evident the 8 iron "Spinner" trick works for full shots but does this method provide more spin for partial and chip shots? 

YES - it delivers more spin on all shots

[mikehill06]

1 hour ago, Howard_Jones said:

YES - it delivers more spin on all shots

Thank you Howard!  I value your expertise and insights into all things club making - you truly enhance GolfWrx.  

[62@Oakmont]

Just a clarification question for any of the knowledgeable builders here-

 

The video/test is with Dynamic Gold which uses the same shaft for #9 through wedges. So therefore when we do this “spinner” wedge build, we are going up one flex and soft stepping once.

 

What would we do if we use a shaft model that has a dedicated wedge shaft in the set, like Project X or Nippon? Would we go up a flex and soft-step once, or still go straight to the #8 shaft?

[Howard_Jones]

4 hours ago, 62@Oakmont said:

Just a clarification question for any of the knowledgeable builders here-

 

The video/test is with Dynamic Gold which uses the same shaft for #9 through wedges. So therefore when we do this “spinner” wedge build, we are going up one flex and soft stepping once.

 

What would we do if we use a shaft model that has a dedicated wedge shaft in the set, like Project X or Nippon? Would we go up a flex and soft-step once, or still go straight to the #8 shaft?

We wants to use a shaft that would fit the slot of a dedicated GW/SW we want find, so its still the #8, but sure, the #9 would work too, but it might be overdone now and feel too stiff.

[RHenderson]

Howard_Jones

Thank you for the information & insight on this, I play T100 irons with Project X 6.0 Blackout shafts, recently switched to 4 T-22 Wedges, 46,50,54, &58 I want to swap my shafts so they match my set, but I also would like to use this 8I method for lower ball flight and more spin. My question is, since they don't offer these shafts in a 7.0 could I use 8i 6.5's in the 46&50 and 9i shafts in the 54&58 and still achieve the goal of adding spin and lower ball flight? I would like to order shafts this week so I can get to assembling these as soon as possible.

Thank you again, I'm looking forward to your reply.

Rich

 

[Bye]

I must admit I am tempted to do this. I play x100 in my irons and did have them in the SM6’s 46 & 50. It worked but the feel was a bit limited.
 

Currently I have S400’s in SM7’s, they are ok but it’s difficult to hit a lower flighted shot especially with the 50. Maybe between the two is the answer.

[Howard_Jones]

15 minutes ago, Bye said:

I must admit I am tempted to do this. I play x100 in my irons and did have them in the SM6’s 46 & 50. It worked but the feel was a bit limited.
 

Currently I have S400’s in SM7’s, they are ok but it’s difficult to hit a lower flighted shot especially with the 50. Maybe between the two is the answer.

Like you could see on the Video Adam C made on this subject, X100 #8 has lower launch and higher spin than S400 #9, you might consider using them if you feel that X100 #9 had a lack of feel in wedge. Its NOT that concept we have for debate here, but side by side testing shows that X100 #8 delivers "more", so try them off, and use the standard GOLD sorting, so you might get shafts to the higher end of X100. 

 

[Howard_Jones]

38 minutes ago, RHenderson said:

Howard_Jones

Thank you for the information & insight on this, I play T100 irons with Project X 6.0 Blackout shafts, recently switched to 4 T-22 Wedges, 46,50,54, &58 I want to swap my shafts so they match my set, but I also would like to use this 8I method for lower ball flight and more spin. My question is, since they don't offer these shafts in a 7.0 could I use 8i 6.5's in the 46&50 and 9i shafts in the 54&58 and still achieve the goal of adding spin and lower ball flight? I would like to order shafts this week so I can get to assembling these as soon as possible.

Thank you again, I'm looking forward to your reply.

Rich

 

It seems like no matter how many times i explain it, its either ignored, overlooked, or misunderstood.

6.0 to 6.5 is ONLY "halv a flex", we NEED 10 CPM stronger, 6.0 to 6.5 is only 5 (same iron) so when you soft step, the full gain of going 6.5 is lost. (6.5 becomes 6.1)

However, a 6.5 #9 can move you back against where we wants to go, and that shaft will launch lower and spin more than your PW shaft used for wedge does now, but not "all the way", but a improvement in the right direction.

[RHenderson]

Thanks Howard, Not ignored just trying to make a certain line of shafts work as close as possible, since those are what I'm playing and don't want to swap out 2 sets of irons for another shaft.

Thanks again, and much appreciate you taking your time informing us, I'm going to order shafts today and looking forward to implementing this.

Rich

[Bye]

1 hour ago, Howard_Jones said:

Like you could see on the Video Adam C made on this subject, X100 #8 has lower launch and higher spin than S400 #9, you might consider using them if you feel that X100 #9 had a lack of feel in wedge. Its NOT that concept we have for debate here, but side by side testing shows that X100 #8 delivers "more", so try them off, and use the standard GOLD sorting, so you might get shafts to the higher end of X100. 

 

Thanks Howard! I watched the video it was a real eye opener for me. I always thought a softer shaft in a wedge would give more spin.

 

I guess it is one of those things that you have to be brave and just try. 
 

Thanks again and all the best to you.

[ewaldbeukes]

On 12/7/2021 at 3:46 PM, Howard_Jones said:

NO - way stiffer, and like a X100 GW shaft that dont exist

Thank you @Howard_Jones! 

 

A last question, if at all possible, If I played my 50, 54, 58 at 36", 35.75" and 35.5" respectively... how would I go about trimming X100's to get there? Would I use a 7 for the gap and 8 for the 50, 58's or all same shaft? Thanks again all!

[Howard_Jones]

59 minutes ago, ewaldbeukes said:

Thank you @Howard_Jones! 

 

A last question, if at all possible, If I played my 50, 54, 58 at 36", 35.75" and 35.5" respectively... how would I go about trimming X100's to get there? Would I use a 7 for the gap and 8 for the 50, 58's or all same shaft? Thanks again all!

its NOT possible to tip trim a X100 to become DG X7, just like we cant tip trim S300 to be like X100
One of many reason is that the DG design is taper all the way to first step, so we would have to modify the hosel to a size ABOVE 0.370....

- X100 #8 has a tip section of 6.5, so does DG X7 #8
- Both has 12 steps each of 1.75"
- X100 has a butt section thats 0.600 - X7 is 0.610
So they "looks like the same", but the steps has different OD = (X7 is larger = stronger)

If you want a shaft that plays like DG X7, buy DG X7
 

[ewaldbeukes]

1 minute ago, Howard_Jones said:

its NOT possible to tip trim a X100 to become DG X7, just like we cant tip trim S300 to be like X100
One of many reason is that the DG design is taper all the way to first step, so we would have to modify the hosel to a size ABOVE 0.370....

- X100 #8 has a tip section of 6.5, so does DG X7 #8
- Both has 12 steps each of 1.75"
- X100 has a butt section thats 0.600 - X7 is 0.610
So they "looks like the same", but the steps has different OD = (X7 is larger = stronger)

If you want a shaft that plays like DG X7, buy DG X7
 

Think I may have asked the question poorly… want to use X100s and use them (not an X7) currently have S300 in my wedges. 
 

Is it simply take an 8 iron shaft straight in and butt trim to length?

[Howard_Jones]

9 hours ago, ewaldbeukes said:

Think I may have asked the question poorly… want to use X100s and use them (not an X7) currently have S300 in my wedges. 
 

Is it simply take an 8 iron shaft straight in and butt trim to length?

yes

[OHWebs]

First - This thread has been fantastic and very informative! THANK YOU

Second - It has made me realize that I have a lot more to learn and understand when it comes to club fitting/building dynamics.

 

I'm going to be changing my wedge shafts very soon (the reason why I  became aware of this thread), so I want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly.

 

@Howard_Jones or anyone else, please correct me if I'm wrong or misunderstanding what to do.

 

I currently play DG 120 S300's in my Mizuno irons (3-P). So, if I'm going this route then I would be purchasing DG 120 X100 #8 shaft for each of my wedges (52, 56, 60)? I would then Soft Step 1 those shafts before installing? 

Is this the correct process?

 

 

[Seamus_McDuff]

1 hour ago, OHWebs said:

First - This thread has been fantastic and very informative! THANK YOU

Second - It has made me realize that I have a lot more to learn and understand when it comes to club fitting/building dynamics.

 

I'm going to be changing my wedge shafts very soon (the reason why I  became aware of this thread), so I want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly.

 

@Howard_Jones or anyone else, please correct me if I'm wrong or misunderstanding what to do.

 

I currently play DG 120 S300's in my Mizuno irons (3-P). So, if I'm going this route then I would be purchasing DG 120 X100 #8 shaft for each of my wedges (52, 56, 60)? I would then Soft Step 1 those shafts before installing? 

Is this the correct process?

 

 

 

You're already soft stepping by using  DG 120 X100 #8. You’re just doing it with a different shaft than what’s in the rest of your set. 
 

You can do it in all three wedges or only one(60) or two(56, 60). 

[Howard_Jones]

1 hour ago, OHWebs said:

First - This thread has been fantastic and very informative! THANK YOU

Second - It has made me realize that I have a lot more to learn and understand when it comes to club fitting/building dynamics.

 

I'm going to be changing my wedge shafts very soon (the reason why I  became aware of this thread), so I want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly.

 

@Howard_Jones or anyone else, please correct me if I'm wrong or misunderstanding what to do.

 

I currently play DG 120 S300's in my Mizuno irons (3-P). So, if I'm going this route then I would be purchasing DG 120 X100 #8 shaft for each of my wedges (52, 56, 60)? I would then Soft Step 1 those shafts before installing? 

Is this the correct process?

 

 

Seamus above me here is right, but in case others wonder.....

Each shaft in a set of constant wgt shafts, is designed to be used with the head weight that shaft is dedicated for.

Its NO standard for head weights either, but they ALL have a progression of average 7 grams for each club shorter like this:

CLUB - expected head wgt
#1 = 226
#2 = 233
#3 = 240
#4 = 247
#5 = 254
#6 = 261
#7 = 268
#8 = 275
#9 = 282
PW = 289
GW = 296
SW = 303
LW = 310

SOFT STEPPING means we use a shaft made for a LIGHTER head than we actually use, and HARD STEPPING means we use a shaft STONGER than the head weight we use, so just like a fishing rod becomes softer or stiffer depending on the lure weight, this is the same

Soft stepping ONCE is one shaft softer, soft stepping twice, is 2 shafts softer.

So, if we should "nit pick", using a #8 iron shaft for LOB wedge, is really SS5, but since the #9 is the shortest and stiffest we can get (Dynamic Gold) moving from the #9 we normally would use to the #8, becomes SS1.

So, using the dedicated #8 iron shafts means we already have soft stepped 1x by choosing that shaft instead of the #9, now we just go strait in, and butt cut to our play length target. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Howard_Jones