8 or 7 iron X100 for "Spinner" wedge shaft

[pandaboy]

Hey guys. I’m a big fan of the forum and especially of the thread. I have a question.

 

I’m playing the the cobra tour iron with aerotech steelfiber 110cw in xstiff. I want to reshaft my new wedges. Is it ok, to put DG 120 X 7 Iron Shaft in my 56 and 60? 
 

sorry for my bad English 🥲

[ranesy]

Lots of great info from others on your question. My 7 iron numbers are (CS=85 mph / BS = 118mph / Carry =172 / Spin = 5100), standard Mizuno MP64 7i loft / lie.

 

I did the experiment of using 8i X100 shaft in my wedges, hated the feel, so switched back to my KBS 610 stiff wedge shafts. I am a sweeper and not a digger and feel player. The 8i X100 shafts felt 'dead'....however feel is a personal thing, so your experience may differ. The spin was statistically the same....

[ewaldbeukes]

On 1/9/2022 at 5:59 PM, Howard_Jones said:

I really dont know what the latest "DG Spinner" actually is, so i cant answer that.
Buy yes, IF and only IF "DG spinner" is a S series, (#8 or #9), X100 #8 would be lower launching and higher spin.

Thanks as always Howard! Think the Cleveland is an S300 so this confirms my thoughts...

[Howard_Jones]

3 hours ago, ewaldbeukes said:

Thanks as always Howard! Think the Cleveland is an S300 so this confirms my thoughts...

Ive asked if anyone can measure tip length, but nobody cares to contribute, so its still unclear what shaft that actually is. I anyone has it in a wedge, its NOT needed to pull the shaft. Hosel top to first step is good enough, since we only had to add insert of 1.25" to get the actual "tip to first step".

[ewaldbeukes]

1 minute ago, Howard_Jones said:

Ive asked if anyone can measure tip length, but nobody cares to contribute, so its still unclear what shaft that actually is. I anyone has it in a wedge, its NOT needed to pull the shaft. Hosel top to first step is good enough, since we only had to add insert of 1.25" to get the actual "tip to first step".

Ill measure this evening, I do have one on hand at home.

[Howard_Jones]

On 1/11/2022 at 12:13 AM, pandaboy said:

Hey guys. I’m a big fan of the forum and especially of the thread. I have a question.

 

I’m playing the the cobra tour iron with aerotech steelfiber 110cw in xstiff. I want to reshaft my new wedges. Is it ok, to put DG 120 X 7 Iron Shaft in my 56 and 60? 
 

sorry for my bad English 🥲

If you want to ADD spin, the shaft you use has to be stiffer than the one you replace, and you dont say what you normally play in wedges.

[deepred]

The video you posted confirmed for me what Tom Wishon had written about “wedge flex” shafts. They don’t do anything that a flex stiffer 8 iron does at generally lower cost.

I’m currently assembling a set of Maltby DBM clubs which have a low center of gravity. My plan is DG 105S hard stepped once in the 9-5 and DG SL X100 8i in the PW and GW.

 

[Howard_Jones]

1 hour ago, deepred said:

The video you posted confirmed for me what Tom Wishon had written about “wedge flex” shafts. They don’t do anything that a flex stiffer 8 iron does at generally lower cost.

I’m currently assembling a set of Maltby DBM clubs which have a low center of gravity. My plan is DG 105S hard stepped once in the 9-5 and DG SL X100 8i in the PW and GW.

 

"Wedge flex" was always just a DG S flex #9 iron shaft, and actually one of the lowest priced shafts on the marked without any claims about adding spin, so dont mix the terms here....i think you meant "DG Spinner"...but wrote wedge flex?



 

[deepred]

Correct, the DG spinner and I think he was referring to the KBS shaft as well. 
 

it seems to me the DG SL would make a great shaft choice for those using lightweight steel or graphite looking to increase spin in the wedges.

[ewaldbeukes]

7 hours ago, ewaldbeukes said:

Ill measure this evening, I do have one on hand at home.

Got it at 14.4cm so coverted about 5 5/8 inches? Would that make sense at all?

[Pnwpingi210]

Some results to share:

built up a 54 degree with a px 7.0 8 iron shaft.

 

this is a game changer.  I can now flight my 54 degree and throw darts at the target.  Full shots actually picked up 5-10 yards of carry which is interesting.  Still have the ability to hit is as high as I need to, but those low 1/2 to 3/4 penetrating shots are now there too.

 

I’ve played px 6.5, modus 130x and s400 in the wedges in the past and nothing has giving me the feeling/perception of control like the px 7.0. 8 iron.

[deepred]

So here’s a question I’ve received different answers to. Is X100 really a full flex stiffer than S300? I have a Dynalite SL X100 shaft I was going to use but was told soft stepping it twice would make it more like an R300.

[Howard_Jones]

13 hours ago, ewaldbeukes said:

Got it at 14.4cm so coverted about 5 5/8 inches? Would that make sense at all?

Top of the hosel is BELOW the ferrule, so we measure from BELOW the ferrule to first step, then we add 1.25" for insert, and we have "tip to first step", or tip length if you like.

[ewaldbeukes]

19 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

Top of the hosel is BELOW the ferrule, so we measure from BELOW the ferrule to first step, then we add 1.25" for insert, and we have "tip to first step", or tip length if you like.

Blonde moment - apologies. Re-measuring tonight...

[JungleJimbo]

50 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

Top of the hosel is BELOW the ferrule, so we measure from BELOW the ferrule to first step, then we add 1.25" for insert, and we have "tip to first step", or tip length if you like.

@Howard_Jones If helpful / want a fast answer...
The Cleveland ferrule = approx 1.25" (or 3.2 cm)...

so guessing you could add this to the 14.4cm (or 5 and 5/8ths) measurement previously provided by @ewaldbeukes

...Or is a more precise measurement required?

You've always been super-helpful/patient with us... hence there are lots of folks keen to reciprocate/ return the favour!  🙂 

 

14 hours ago, ewaldbeukes said:

Got it at 14.4cm so coverted about 5 5/8 inches? Would that make sense at all?

 

 

Edited January 14, 2022 by JungleJimbo

[ewaldbeukes]

3 minutes ago, JungleJimbo said:

@Howard_Jones If helpful / want a fast answer...
The Cleveland ferrule = approx 1.25" (or 3.2 cm)...

so guessing you could add this to the 14.4cm (or 5 and 5/8ths) measurement previously provided by @ewaldbeukes
 

 

 

Thank you! So my calculations takes us to 20.8cm or around 8 1/8 inches? Or 8 1/4 inches (conversions arent perfect) as it seems somehere in between on inches…

Edited January 14, 2022 by ewaldbeukes

[Howard_Jones]

1 hour ago, ewaldbeukes said:

Thank you! So my calculations takes us to 20.8cm or around 8 1/8 inches? Or 8 1/4 inches (conversions arent perfect) as it seems somehere in between on inches…

That makes it the same old Dynamic Gold S flex #9 iron shaft, often called "wedge flex".
Its unlikely that this is a DG X100 shaft, since we are at 39.00 when tip is 8.0" for X100, and thats a #5 iron shaft....

If this is the shaft TT is marketing as "DG Spinner"?.... then im glad im out of the PFC system, because this AINT a spinner shaft at all, but "same sh** new wrapping" of a "wedge flex" shaft

[ErichZF]

I’m also confused. “Tiger stepping”?  Doesn’t he use S400 wedge straight in?  I asked Bob Vokey once and he seemed confused about the term.  Aaron Dill told me softer flexes caused more spin in wedges in a podcast.  Maybe they are wrong. IDK. 

[Phabs]

Just ordered my second set of 7.0 blackout 8 iron rifles for my mizunos.  I’ve played a set with this shaft set up for two years in my old set of wedges that I retired this year but am keeping as backups.     

[Howard_Jones]

2 hours ago, ErichZF said:

I’m also confused. “Tiger stepping”?  Doesn’t he use S400 wedge straight in?  I asked Bob Vokey once and he seemed confused about the term.  Aaron Dill told me softer flexes caused more spin in wedges in a podcast.  Maybe they are wrong. IDK. 

Tiger stepped is a slang for tip trim on taper tip shafts, and ive been told Tiger's S400 wedge shafts is tipp trimmed, and its widely used.

Softer shafts for wedges adds launch, but reduce spin.
There is a curve that turn, so spin goes up progressive with lofts trough our irons, but then it turns, where launch still goes up with loft, while spin goes down.

Thats the idea with the #8 iron spinner trick, we use a shaft that normally would fit the slot as a dedicated GW shaft we cant buy, instead of using the #9 or PW shaft for wedge. Then we keep the normal progression for spin, while launch goes down vs using the #9 or PW since they would be "soft stepped" as compare.

So if Aron Dill at Vokey said a softer shaft would add spin, he is wrong, and you dont even have to go outside of this tread to find proof of that. Those who followed my advice confirms it, one player even got to much for his liking.

The longest tread on this subject was started almost 10 years ago, and ive been giving advice and helped players here on WRX to gain spin on their wedges this way since 2009.

Here is the long tread about it. its from marts 2012, so this aint news on the WRX at all..

 

[TonyDAnnunzio]

I reshafted my 56 degree PING Glide sand wedge per Howard's suggestion by going to the next stiffer shaft within the same profile and soft stepping 1x...  I play Modus 120 X in my irons and went to the Modus TX in the sand wedge.  Prior to putting Modus 120 TX in my sand wedge it had an S400 8 iron shaft...

 

The following are the result average of 10 shots...  these shots were 3/4 shots taken with range balls from a grass.  

 

S400  88.8 yards  7404 spin  72' 4" height

Modus 120TX  88.2 yards  7836 spin  68'3" height

Edited January 15, 2022 by TonyDAnnunzio

[Howard_Jones]

2 hours ago, TonyDAnnunzio said:

I reshafted my 56 degree PING Glide sand wedge per Howard's suggestion by going to the next stiffer shaft within the same profile and soft stepping 1x...  I play Modus 120 X in my irons and went to the Modus TX in the sand wedge.  Prior to putting Modus 120 TX in my sand wedge it had an S400 8 iron shaft...

 

The following are the result average of 10 shots...  these shots were 3/4 shots taken with range balls from a grass.  

 

S400  88.8 yards  7404 spin  72' 4" height

Modus 120TX  88.2 yards  7836 spin  68'3" height

Does your launch monitor measure/estimate roll out ?
What about feel? is that good?

[TonyDAnnunzio]

8 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

Does your launch monitor measure/estimate roll out ?
What about feel? is that good?

 

Unfortunately, my launch monitor does not have a roll out measurement...  However, just from my observation and what I have experienced gaming the TX the roll out is less on all shots including even short 10 yard pitch shots.  It definitely takes an adjustment period to be able to trust throwing the ball closer to the hole that it is going to check up.

 

The feel is VERY VERY good...  As I said in another post I am one of those players that prefers to feel very little loading in the shaft and the TX definitely provides that feel.  With the S400 I could feel the shaft loading even on little pitch shots.

[Howard_Jones]

7 minutes ago, TonyDAnnunzio said:

 

Unfortunately, my launch monitor does not have a roll out measurement...  However, just from my observation and what I have experienced gaming the TX the roll out is less on all shots including even short 10 yard pitch shots.  It definitely takes an adjustment period to be able to trust throwing the ball closer to the hole that it is going to check up.

 

The feel is VERY VERY good...  As I said in another post I am one of those players that prefers to feel very little loading in the shaft and the TX definitely provides that feel.  With the S400 I could feel the shaft loading even on little pitch shots.

Thanks for that feedback, its exactly what other readers want's to know, since FEEL is very important for most of us in the short game.

I have it the same way as you, if i can feel the shaft loads and unloads on wedge shots, i loose confidence about what will happen, so the shafts i play is "rigid", but not phone poles at all, just stiff enough to give me confidence, still with all the feedback from impact i ever wanted, and i have about zero roll out from #8 and shorter, so im used to attacking the pin directly.

 

[deepred]

A few years ago I built two Maltby wedges with Rocket steel shafts, I wish I had those on a track man. 

Edited January 15, 2022 by deepred

[pandaboy]

On 1/13/2022 at 1:10 PM, Howard_Jones said:

If you want to ADD spin, the shaft you use has to be stiffer than the one you replace, and you dont say what you normally play in wedges.

Hey Howard, i want to add spin to my partial wedge shots. I’m using Nippon modus 125 Wedge shaft currently. 

do you have a recommendation for me?

[getitdaily]

11 hours ago, TonyDAnnunzio said:

 

Unfortunately, my launch monitor does not have a roll out measurement...  However, just from my observation and what I have experienced gaming the TX the roll out is less on all shots including even short 10 yard pitch shots.  It definitely takes an adjustment period to be able to trust throwing the ball closer to the hole that it is going to check up.

 

The feel is VERY VERY good...  As I said in another post I am one of those players that prefers to feel very little loading in the shaft and the TX definitely provides that feel.  With the S400 I could feel the shaft loading even on little pitch shots.

 

11 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

Thanks for that feedback, its exactly what other readers want's to know, since FEEL is very important for most of us in the short game.

I have it the same way as you, if i can feel the shaft loads and unloads on wedge shots, i loose confidence about what will happen, so the shafts i play is "rigid", but not phone poles at all, just stiff enough to give me confidence, still with all the feedback from impact i ever wanted, and i have about zero roll out from #8 and shorter, so im used to attacking the pin directly.

 

"roll out is less on all shots including even short 10 yard pitch shots"

 

I've noticed this too. First round with my 54 in the new shaft setup and I left every pitch short. Howard - are we seeing what is real? Is there that much more spin on little pitch shots that landing spots will move closer to the hole?

[Phabs]

5 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

 

"roll out is less on all shots including even short 10 yard pitch shots"

 

I've noticed this too. First round with my 54 in the new shaft setup and I left every pitch short. Howard - are we seeing what is real? Is there that much more spin on little pitch shots that landing spots will move closer to the hole?

Spin increases everywhere with the shaft change…

[Howard_Jones]

2 hours ago, getitdaily said:

 

"roll out is less on all shots including even short 10 yard pitch shots"

 

I've noticed this too. First round with my 54 in the new shaft setup and I left every pitch short. Howard - are we seeing what is real? Is there that much more spin on little pitch shots that landing spots will move closer to the hole?

If we use the same power/speed as before, we will often come up short, since the way most of us played was with the expectation of some roll, so we hardly ever tried to each the pin for this reason.
When spin goes up, roll out goes down, so we will have to go a little harder onto it, so carry becomes longer. The small addition to power itself adds spin, so its really mental where we should practice on going for the pin itself instead of a planned landing short and rolling it in.

Most courses has a practice area (not the range), where we can practice on this, and get used to attacking the pin itself. If the actual situation call for a different approach, a longer club with less power might be the best. 

[getitdaily]

7 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

If we use the same power/speed as before, we will often come up short, since the way most of us played was with the expectation of some roll, so we hardly ever tried to each the pin for this reason.
When spin goes up, roll out goes down, so we will have to go a little harder onto it, so carry becomes longer. The small addition to power itself adds spin, so its really mental where we should practice on going for the pin itself instead of a planned landing short and rolling it in.

Most courses has a practice area (not the range), where we can practice on this, and get used to attacking the pin itself. If the actual situation call for a different approach, a longer club with less power might be the best. 

Thanks Howard. Was just wondering if "by the book" the spin increase would be enough to impact short chips and pitches. 

 

I'm definitely going to have to relearn landing distances.