8 or 7 iron X100 for "Spinner" wedge shaft

[Howard_Jones]

3 hours ago, getitdaily said:

Thanks Howard. Was just wondering if "by the book" the spin increase would be enough to impact short chips and pitches. 

 

I'm definitely going to have to relearn landing distances. 

I never got to the point that i brought my Trackman to the training area of my local golf club to measure and compare this, so i dont have any datas for this. And "the book" ...i never saw this "#8 iron spinner trick" mentioned by any sources.

[getitdaily]

11 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

I never got to the point that i brought my Trackman to the training area of my local golf club to measure and compare this, so i dont have any datas for this. And "the book" ...i never saw this "#8 iron spinner trick" mentioned by any sources.

I'll report back. Will do some drills soon where I compare it based on the s300/400 and the new setup.  

 

Just from initial short game practice it seems I need to land the new setup about 10% of the way closer. My general rule was my 54 needed to land about 50% of the way. I've hit my landing spot perfectly on a couple of on course shots and came up about 15 feet short.

 

I like the potential of more spin around the greens. Definitely makes the 54 more versatile. Just have to lock in the new landing spot.

Edited January 16, 2022 by getitdaily

[mupepperboy]

@Howard_Jones I built my B weight Mizunos an inch long using 105g X100 to get the swingweights down to a manageable D4.5-5

 

would I go to a heavier weight X100 8i shaft or move up a flex as suggested above?

[mgoblue83]

1 hour ago, mupepperboy said:

@Howard_Jones I built my B weight Mizunos an inch long using 105g X100 to get the swingweights down to a manageable D4.5-5

 

would I go to a heavier weight X100 8i shaft or move up a flex as suggested above?

 

Similar question here. My 4-pw are Dynamic Gold 120 X100s and I currently use Tour Issue S400s (no tip trimming) in my wedges. The wedges launch too high and really don't spin nearly as much as expected. I'm going to be building up a new 58 degree wedge for this season and am considering the following options:

 

S400 Tip trimmed (how much?)

X100 Tip trimmed (how much?)

X100 8iron shaft

X7 8 iron shaft

 

I'm really looking to throw darts with partial swings (2 handicap, high swing speed). Which of the options is the most promising?

 

Thanks all!

[BombinJim]

1 hour ago, mgoblue83 said:

X7 8 iron shaft

I like the X7 8i shaft in mine and play S400’s in my irons, FWIW.

[mgoblue83]

9 hours ago, BombinJim said:

I like the X7 8i shaft in mine and play S400’s in my irons, FWIW.

 

Any tip trimming?

[getitdaily]

9 hours ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

Any tip trimming?

No

[Howard_Jones]

On 1/17/2022 at 1:15 AM, mupepperboy said:

@Howard_Jones I built my B weight Mizunos an inch long using 105g X100 to get the swingweights down to a manageable D4.5-5

 

would I go to a heavier weight X100 8i shaft or move up a flex as suggested above?

If the question is about wedge shafts in general, it should NOT be posted in this tread
If the question was about spinner shafts for wedges, i suggest you start from page 1 and read.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Howard_Jones

[Howard_Jones]

On 1/17/2022 at 3:08 AM, mgoblue83 said:

 

Similar question here. My 4-pw are Dynamic Gold 120 X100s and I currently use Tour Issue S400s (no tip trimming) in my wedges. The wedges launch too high and really don't spin nearly as much as expected. I'm going to be building up a new 58 degree wedge for this season and am considering the following options:

 

S400 Tip trimmed (how much?)

X100 Tip trimmed (how much?)

X100 8iron shaft

X7 8 iron shaft

 

I'm really looking to throw darts with partial swings (2 handicap, high swing speed). Which of the options is the most promising?

 

Thanks all!

Did you read this tread from page 1?

[mgoblue83]

6 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

Did you read this tread from page 1?

 

Yes, fantastic thread.

 

The information provided (mostly by you) suggests going up in flex and to use an 8i shaft to lower trajectory and increase spin with wedges. Seems pretty straight forward for standard shafts like S300 -> X100 8i or X100 -> X7 8i but I'm a little unclear of the best options with the 120g version of the X100. It's already a little softer than a regular X100 so that's why I was asking for thoughts on those options. 

Really the two options I'm considering first are regular X100 8i (tip trimmed but how much?) or X7 8i (no tip trimming). 

 

Thank you for all you do for us Howard!

[Howard_Jones]

1 hour ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

Yes, fantastic thread.

 

The information provided (mostly by you) suggests going up in flex and to use an 8i shaft to lower trajectory and increase spin with wedges. Seems pretty straight forward for standard shafts like S300 -> X100 8i or X100 -> X7 8i but I'm a little unclear of the best options with the 120g version of the X100. It's already a little softer than a regular X100 so that's why I was asking for thoughts on those options. 

Really the two options I'm considering first are regular X100 8i (tip trimmed but how much?) or X7 8i (no tip trimming). 

 

Thank you for all you do for us Howard!

The issue with tip trim on tapers is several
#1 - we are often limited to 3/8" maybe 4/8" before we get insert issues and need a ream job.
#2 - Dynamic Gold has 2 taper parts
- The first is from 0.355 to 0.370, that part is the first 6/8"
- The next taper starts at 6/8" and goes all the way to first step, so at some point (cant remember hos far up, we pass 0.370", and we always need 1.25" for insert.

The #8 iron spinner trick, gives us a shaft more or less like a dedicated GW shaft would have been, but im unsure if we can get there due to the above mentioned issues.

Parallell shafts only need 4/8" tip trim to make them "1 shaft stronger", while tapers needs about 5/8", so we can modify a #9 to become a "PW" shaft, but to get all the way to GW, we need 1.25"

The question is now, what actual OD does X100 have 2.5" inch above its original tip?
We first rip trim 1.25", then next is insert, so 2.5" op from the original tip cant be much wider than 0.370 before we have a insert issue again.

I dont have any shafts where im now, so i cant answer for how wide it is, maybe another reader has a X100 lying around. It does not matter if its installed, we dont have to pull it to measure that.
Simply assume insert is 1.25", add the height of the ferrule, and make a sum of them
Now tak 2.5inches and subtract the sum you make above.
This tells you how high above the ferrule would be the new hosel top. Thats where we need the OD measurement from.

The only measurements i have at hand for X100 that ive measured myself, has "everything" but that, but as you can see, the end of the tip below 1 step is 0.386 and the 2. taper starts at 6/8" as just a fragment below 0.370 (about 0.368), so if you are good with numbers, you can do the math, but i dont have the time for that now.

The #9 tip is 6.0, minus 6/8" as the first taper.
The second taper is then 5 2/8" long, starting at 0.368, ending at 0.386
Compare the number you find with the actual heads hosel ID on the top
Yes it can be done, but im affraid we need more than just a 0.370 ream job

PS. DG 120 could be the stating point for this if you want the lower weight it offers.
The clue is simply "to make" that GW shaft we cant buy since they dont offer that option







 

Edited January 18, 2022 by Howard_Jones

[mupepperboy]

17 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

If the question is about wedge shafts in general, it should NOT be posted in this tread
If the question was about spinner shafts for wedges, i suggest you start from page 1 and read.

Concerning spinners… I did reread it from post 1- glad I did cause AJs  video was outstanding. And his YouTube was instrumental in building my irons this last summer.

 

Anyway, I didn’t read what to do specifically when using lighter X100. Currently looking for CPM data to compare the KBS 610 that are in my 3 wedges and know what to do in my case based on what I learned from your precious examples. 

[62@Oakmont]

Noticed on Matsuyama’s WITB that he plays S400 in his irons but X100 in sand and lob wedges. I wonder if he’s doing the spinner trick on those two wedges?

[Howard_Jones]

7 hours ago, mupepperboy said:

Concerning spinners… I did reread it from post 1- glad I did cause AJs  video was outstanding. And his YouTube was instrumental in building my irons this last summer.

 

Anyway, I didn’t read what to do specifically when using lighter X100. Currently looking for CPM data to compare the KBS 610 that are in my 3 wedges and know what to do in my case based on what I learned from your precious examples. 

We cant compare 2 different shafts using butt CPM, only the same model.
When shaft models is different, the one with stiffest butt side, could have the softest tip side, so its only the same shaft model who can be compared using butt CPM.

DG 105 X to DG 120 X for wedge might work, but i dont have the needed specs to compare them, so i cant really tell if the shortest DG 120 X would fit the slot of a 105 X GW. The 120 is most likely stiffer, but for all i know its "only" like a "PW" and not all the way to "GW".

If i had a full profile for them for a side by side compare, it would have been possible to judge them, and what shaft number to use (most likely the shortest) , and if it should be tip trimmed to tune in the last we need to get to target. Without this specs, i cant tell, but if it was my own clubs, i would have tried a 120X #9, tip trimmed 3/8"

[getitdaily]

@Howard_Jones

Got the $taper 125s+ in my 50. Here are results compared to $taper 130x and x100 (all 8i shafts) 

 

X100 (avgs)

25 launch - 10100 spin

 

130x

26 launch - 10200 spin

 

125s+ (definitely softer feel that I wanted compared to 130x)

25.6 launch - 9650 spin

 

It appears the 125 s+ will give exactly what I was after. Softer feel in transition with hit and stop rather than hit and spin back. Will put it in play soon.

[Cwebb]

On 1/18/2022 at 5:50 PM, 62@Oakmont said:

Noticed on Matsuyama’s WITB that he plays S400 in his irons but X100 in sand and lob wedges. I wonder if he’s doing the spinner trick on those two wedges?

 

No.  One of his Srixon club makers stated that he likes the lower trajectory that the stiffer wedge shafts produce for him

[Howard_Jones]

46 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

@Howard_Jones

Got the $taper 125s+ in my 50. Here are results compared to $taper 130x and x100 (all 8i shafts) 

 

X100 (avgs)

25 launch - 10100 spin

 

130x

26 launch - 10200 spin

 

125s+ (definitely softer feel that I wanted compared to 130x)

25.6 launch - 9650 spin

 

It appears the 125 s+ will give exactly what I was after. Softer feel in transition with hit and stop rather than hit and spin back. Will put it in play soon.

Im very happy that it worked out like the "paper numbers" indicated, but i did expect launch to be higher than 130 x, not lower?....anyway if we use your number as a guideline and example, the same shaft profile is about 550 rpm for 5 CPM (maybe 5.5), so about 100+ rpms up or down for each CPM softer or stronger when using the same shaft profile for wedges. 
 

[getitdaily]

1 hour ago, Howard_Jones said:

Im very happy that it worked out like the "paper numbers" indicated, but i did expect launch to be higher than 130 x, not lower?....anyway if we use your number as a guideline and example, the same shaft profile is about 550 rpm for 5 CPM (maybe 5.5), so about 100+ rpms up or down for each CPM softer or stronger when using the same shaft profile for wedges. 
 

Those numbers were inside. On the range, launch was higher in the 125s+ on 3/4 shots for sure. I remember the 130x was really flat. Idk about full shots since I can't really compare. 

 

However, higher launch would make sense since I have more feel with the 125 and it slots better. My hands more a touch toward the target in transition. Even more when shafts are too firm...I pull harder, get steeper, launch lower.

[getitdaily]

2 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

Im very happy that it worked out like the "paper numbers" indicated, but i did expect launch to be higher than 130 x, not lower?....anyway if we use your number as a guideline and example, the same shaft profile is about 550 rpm for 5 CPM (maybe 5.5), so about 100+ rpms up or down for each CPM softer or stronger when using the same shaft profile for wedges. 
 

Forgot I had launch monitor #s from the s400 that was in this wedge originally. Launch 27 and spin 9800 so 125s+ should play very, very similarly to s400...just with better control

[CKaneb]

On 12/3/2021 at 1:09 PM, Howard_Jones said:

IF there was a TX option you could do it, but there aint, so the only way to get a stiffer 130X is by tip trim or whats called "Tiger stepping", who is hard stepping of taper tip shafts by tip trim.
Most hosels accept 3/8" without insert issues, while more than that might make a need for a ream job to 0.370 to get full insert.'

 

'Another option is to get a DG Tour X7 #8 iron shaft



Adam (the OP) have now made a video with side by side test of DG S400 #9 vs X100 #8
 

 

wait so if you want to try the X7 route, is it better to soft step it or hard step it?

[Howard_Jones]

10 hours ago, CKaneb said:

wait so if you want to try the X7 route, is it better to soft step it or hard step it?

We can only hard step a wedge shaft by tip trim like the post you quote describe, and the player who plays X and goes TX dont need that, its back to the basics for it all, using a #8 shaft from 1 full flex stronger of the same shaft model.

[mgoblue83]

16 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

We can only hard step a wedge shaft by tip trim like the post you quote describe, and the player who plays X and goes TX dont need that, its back to the basics for it all, using a #8 shaft from 1 full flex stronger of the same shaft model.

 

I play DG120 X100 irons and decided on going the X100 8i route for my new 58 degree wedge with the hope that it is stronger flex than the 120g version in my irons. Does this logic make sense?

 

Also, the wedge I'm building has a .370 parallel bore and I'm starting with a normal .370 X100 shaft so I will be able to tip trim any length without an issue. Should I tip trim it the normal 8i amount or do more/less if the goal is lower launch and more spin.

 

Thanks so much.

[deepred]

Going with a parallel shaft means you going in the opposite direction I believe. You are going to create a weaker tip instead of a firmer one. Others know for sure but I’m pretty sure you need a taper tip 37.5 shaft.

 

[Howard_Jones]

1 hour ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

I play DG120 X100 irons and decided on going the X100 8i route for my new 58 degree wedge with the hope that it is stronger flex than the 120g version in my irons. Does this logic make sense?

 

Also, the wedge I'm building has a .370 parallel bore and I'm starting with a normal .370 X100 shaft so I will be able to tip trim any length without an issue. Should I tip trim it the normal 8i amount or do more/less if the goal is lower launch and more spin.

 

Thanks so much.

If irons was X100 parallel, target tip trim for wedges would be 5.0", not 3.5" as the #8 iron shaft is.

[mgoblue83]

8 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

If irons was X100 parallel, target tip trim for wedges would be 5.0", not 3.5" as the #8 iron shaft is.

 

9 hours ago, deepred said:

Going with a parallel shaft means you going in the opposite direction I believe. You are going to create a weaker tip instead of a firmer one. Others know for sure but I’m pretty sure you need a taper tip 37.5 shaft.

 

 

It's an uncut parallel X100. Trimming it 5" will work similar to using a taper tip 8i shaft?

 

Thanks guys!

[Howard_Jones]

15 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

 

It's an uncut parallel X100. Trimming it 5" will work similar to using a taper tip 8i shaft?

 

Thanks guys!

NO, I NEVER SAID THAT

[mgoblue83]

1 minute ago, Howard_Jones said:

NO, I NEVER SAID THAT

 

My original question was how much should I tip trim the parallel shaft when going for the 8 iron -> wedge idea. The trimming guide from True Temper has 8 iron at 3.5" but you seemed to imply I should be doing 5" instead.

 

I'm sorry for misunderstanding and would appreciate guidance with this.

 

Thank you for all you do!

[ewaldbeukes]

@Howard_Jones leaning on your insight here. Wanting to order a DTC wedge and they dont cater to a specific build (can always rebuild after - Sadly few choices for true custom in SA!)... 

 

I play X100 in my irons so as we have discussed my best option is X7 8 Iron cut to length. Alternatively if one just wants a smooth wedge feel with lower spin go S400. Where would a X100 9 Iron ("Wedge" shaft) fall along this continuum ito flex/feel/spin/flight... thats if it was installed "straight in"... more towards the S400 side or the X7 Spinner side? 

 

My options are an S300 straight in (that I have coped with before) or an X100 straight in.

Edited February 10, 2022 by ewaldbeukes

[getitdaily]

11 minutes ago, ewaldbeukes said:

@Howard_Jones leaning on your insight here. Wanting to order a DTC wedge and they dont cater to a specific build (can always rebuild after - Sadly few choices for true custom in SA!)... 

 

I play X100 in my irons so as we have discussed my best option is X7 8 Iron cut to length. Alternatively if one just wants a smooth wedge feel with lower spin go S400. Where would a X100 9 Iron ("Wedge" shaft) fall along this continuum ito flex/feel/spin/flight... thats if it was installed "straight in"... more towards the S400 side or the X7 Spinner side? 

 

My options are an S300 straight in (that I have coped with before) or an X100 straight in.

It'll be right in between...

 

By the book...Lower launch (by fractions of a degree) than the s400 with similar spin, maybe a touch less spin. Higher launch and lower spin than the x7 8i. Likely see bigger differences between x100 9i/w and the x7 8i than the x100 and s400.

[ewaldbeukes]

1 minute ago, getitdaily said:

It'll be right in between...

 

By the book...Lower launch (by fractions of a degree) than the s400 with similar spin, maybe a touch less spin. Higher launch and lower spin than the x7 8i. Likely see bigger differences between x100 9i/w and the x7 8i than the x100 and s400.

Anyone tried the two? How is the feel of the X100 in wedges? Still decent for chipping and pitching? Suppose its a similar feel to anyone doing the spinner trick ie flex up?