Dtc longevity

[kylesilk]

What does the WRX community think of the longevity of the DTC companies we have around now?  I like the see the little guys succeed in today's world.  My 2 favorites are New Level and Sub 70.  I have dealt with both of these companies and it's always been a top notch experience.   There things I really like from each company.  I've seen quite a few companies come and go over the years so I wish them the best. 

What do you guys think about them?

[MattM97]

As long as they have lots of offerings similar to the big OEM for less then they'll be around a while. 

[SUPERG]

In today’s world of golf demand, I’d hope for everyone’s sake they stick around. The more people we have building and selling clubs will ease the supply on the other OEMS. Not saying that these DTC firms are only for beginners, but buy and large more tenured golfers prefer the big 4 and the like. I personally love the New Level stuff that I’ve seen. 

[phizzy30]

Hard to say because Scratch was around for awhile and had a cult following, myself included.  It's a shame Ari had to shut it down because his irons were second to none.  It's tough for DTC's to survive because OEMs have bigger budgets to invest in R & D, production and materials. 

[PuffyC]

I really like the idea I'm just not sure how workable it is long term. Golf seems so driven by subjective mythology and image that I'm not sure simply building a better product is enough, and that's assuming you can even define what a better product is. Is today's AI developed iron with patented ShazamSpeed(tm) technology objectively and measurably better than one 5 years older? 

It's kinda like sneakers. Sneaker enthusiasts worship Jordans and pay big bucks for them even though they're no better than the $8 rack shoe at Walmart. If you developed a DTC shoe that was objectively better than Jordans in every way would those people even care? Some might but would it be enough to keep you afloat? Today, and especially in the golf market, you need more than just a better product, and that's something DTCs struggle with. 

[PEI_Golfer]

44 minutes ago, MattM97 said:

As long as they have lots of offerings similar to the big OEM for less then they'll be around a while. 

 

This is where DTC would over extend themselves and likely end sooner then previously thought.  Although more people drunk beer than golf (ewww, dirty water...), hopefully we don't see a huge amount more of entries to the market a la micro breweries popping up faster than weeds and they can all find their niche market and survive.

[grm24]

New Level had a win on the Champions Tour yesterday from Steven Alker. Plays their PF2 irons, was wearing a NL hat and using a NL staff bag. NL promoted it on their socials. I'm not sure how much that resonates with some players but it's great news for them. Hopefully it can translate to some more sales and interest.  

Edited November 8, 2021 by grm24

[betarhoalphadelta]

1 hour ago, SUPERG said:

In today’s world of golf demand, I’d hope for everyone’s sake they stick around. The more people we have building and selling clubs will ease the supply on the other OEMS. Not saying that these DTC firms are only for beginners, but buy and large more tenured golfers prefer the big 4 and the like. I personally love the New Level stuff that I’ve seen. 

 

I kind of think the opposite.

 

If you look at both Sub70 and New Level their offerings fall more into the players category, which isn't ideal for novice golfers. Sub70 has played around with GI/SGI, but they discontinued their previous GI 739 and replaced it with the SGI 799, and I don't know how it's doing. Both New Level and Sub70 have blades, CBs, and their most forgiving designs are players hollow-body irons. 

 

I think I know the reason for that, quite frankly... Someone new to golf has never even come close to hearing the name Sub70 or New Level. They only know the Big 4 and what's available OTR at their local big box sporting goods or golf store. 

 

I think the beginners actually gravitate to the big 4 and the like because those are the brands they've heard of. 

[MattM97]

1 hour ago, PEI_Golfer said:

 

This is where DTC would over extend themselves and likely end sooner then previously thought.  Although more people drunk beer than golf (ewww, dirty water...), hopefully we don't see a huge amount more of entries to the market a la micro breweries popping up faster than weeds and they can all find their niche market and survive.

 

This is where the ones that do it well will survive and the ones that are just making a quick buck will fail. I can't count how many new glove and ball companies there are only for them to be forgotten a year later if they're lucky.

[NJBigFish22]

The biggest thing for a DTC company is knowing who and what they are. They may not have the marketing or R&D budgets, but the restrictions placed by the USGA and R&A, means they probably won’t fall to far behind in innovation. 

[lefthack]

All my big purchases this year were DTC irons. Lazrus, Byrdie, Takomo, and Haywood. I would like to see all 4 do well since all four have made at least one lefty set. The best way to support them is to buy crap. 

Edited November 9, 2021 by lefthack

[PEI_Golfer]

1 minute ago, MattM97 said:

 

This is where the ones that do it well will survive and the ones that are just making a quick buck will fail. I can't count how many new glove and ball companies there are only for them to be forgotten a year later if they're lucky.

 

I would think that it is far easier to get into those markets than clubs.  They can't be pumping out money left and right as an unknown to cover the same amount of clubs that the OEM's can unless they were just purchasing blank sets and putting a tiny spin on them to make them their own.  There is clearly no R&D to create 5 different club heads to cover forged MBs, CBs, players distance (dumbest thing I've ever heard of...), GI and then hollow bodies.  And then do this again and again every 18 months.  Then get into all the other categories. 

 

Essentially, this is what TEE is without being full DTC and they've been around for ever, a know brand and still can't truly grow more than what they are now.

[TheDominator273]

I know it goes against the DTC model, but I know that if I had some New Level/Sub 70 stuff in the shop at work we would for sure sell a lot of it.

[lefthack]

8 minutes ago, TheDominator273 said:

I know it goes against the DTC model, but I know that if I had some New Level/Sub 70 stuff in the shop at work we would for sure sell a lot of it.

 

It might get there. Dollar Shave Club is in Walmart now, so who knows.

[Murdock]

2 hours ago, lefthack said:

 

It might get there. Dollar Shave Club is in Walmart now, so who knows.

And Harry's is in Target.  Good examples of successful DTC companies who branched out into big box retail.  

[Ger21]

9 minutes ago, Murdock said:

And Harry's is in Target.  Good examples of successful DTC companies who branched out into big box retail.  

They didn't branch out. They got bought out by their bigger competition. They're now owned by the same company that own Schick.

[lefthack]

34 minutes ago, Ger21 said:

They didn't branch out. They got bought out by their bigger competition. They're now owned by the same company that own Schick.

 

And Harry never had to work again. The American dream, available at Target. 🤣

[Phabs]

I demo’d PF1’s and 2’a from new level and liked them both.  Just didn’t beat out my mizunos.   I did how ever fall in love with the utility iron and will absolutely never sell it.  I’ve sold 3 of them to guys I play with after they swing mine.  I hope they get some foothold in the market, their clubs are every bit as good as the larger corps.  
 

I’m excited to see the 623CB’s this year from them and will definitely be demoing them once available.  Eric was solid to work with when I had an issue as well, took care of my problem and immediately shipped a replacement.  

[grm24]

3 hours ago, Murdock said:

And Harry's is in Target. 

And also in WallyWorld.

[Bad9]

12 hours ago, PEI_Golfer said:

 

 unless they were just purchasing blank sets and putting a tiny spin on them to make them their own. 

 

This is probably a big factor in their business model, the use of foundry designs.

[denkea]

OK.  So I can buy direct from TaylorMade, Titleist, PXG, Srixon, Wilson Golf.  Doesn't that also make them DTC?  

[TKS]

I just can't. Who designed the heads and why did that way? Most DTC are marketing ops, staying in the lower cost realms/claims.

Give me original designs. The NGW, Grindworks, Artisan, Edel are interesting of course designs by Wishon, Sheets, Kohler always hold up well.

[Abh159]

I'd love to see some of these companies make it long term. I have a Sub 70 fairway wood and love it. The whole process of buying from them was great and their customer service is second to none.

 

However, as sad as it sounds I think that the ones who hold out instead of selling to the OEMs when they come offering are the ones that will ultimately fail. Just look at DTC options in any other space and you'll see that the ones who have made it long term are the ones that were acquired by major competitors and simply kept their name/branding as it was originally. 

[JCAG]

21 hours ago, PuffyC said:

I really like the idea I'm just not sure how workable it is long term. Golf seems so driven by subjective mythology and image that I'm not sure simply building a better product is enough, and that's assuming you can even define what a better product is. Is today's AI developed iron with patented ShazamSpeed(tm) technology objectively and measurably better than one 5 years older? 

It's kinda like sneakers. Sneaker enthusiasts worship Jordans and pay big bucks for them even though they're no better than the $8 rack shoe at Walmart. If you developed a DTC shoe that was objectively better than Jordans in every way would those people even care? Some might but would it be enough to keep you afloat? Today, and especially in the golf market, you need more than just a better product, and that's something DTCs struggle with. 

Good analogy. People want brand names. What wins on Sunday, sells on Monday.

[Bad9]

I doubt any of the DTC brands I have seen will get bought by an OEM, especially if they are using foundry designs.

[RolandofGilead]

1 hour ago, TKS said:

I just can't. Who designed the heads and why did that way? Most DTC are marketing ops, staying in the lower cost realms/claims.

Give me original designs. The NGW, Grindworks, Artisan, Edel are interesting of course designs by Wishon, Sheets, Kohler always hold up well.

Eric and Jay will explain the head designs and shapes, CG locations, etc. They do some R&D iterations just not as much as the larger OEMs (speculating). The New Level designs clearly have DNA from classic Mizuno and Bridgestone forged irons. So the designs they use are also ones that hold up well.

 

Iron design doesn’t need to be all that complicated for good ballstrikers. If you want to pay 2-3X for fancy websites and laminated pamphlets, there are plenty of companies that will take your money.