Strange Swing Weight Results After Build

NicholasP · November 12, 2021

Looking for a little discussion around an issue I had building a set of Srixon Z765's with Project X LZ Blackouts shafts. I've built quite a few sets, no professional at it or anything, but competent enough. I have a SW scale along with the other basic equipment needed to build a solid, consistent set.

So I prepped everything and dry fitted. I had a cut 50 gram grip, attached a small piece of tape to head with ferrule. When dry fitting, I was seeing swing weights in the C8 to 9 range, typically build around D3. So I dry fitted again with brass tip weights until I got to that number, clubs needed 6-8 gram tip weights to get me up to those specs. I write everything down, build yesterday, wait 24 hours, and slide my grip of choice on today, which are 58 gram Royal Link Tech cord grips.

I go to verify Swing Weights after all is said and done, and with my grips on, to my surprise, I get D4 on every club in the bag. Now I hit them on my sim, and they felt great, but I'm a little confused.

My expectations were that after putting a 58 gram grip on when dry fitting with a 50 is they would come out to C9 if I use the 2 gram per swing weight analogy, because I dry fitted with 50, installed 58, and there's the 4 point difference.

Can anyone see anything on this process that was off? I made sure the cut grip was seated properly, any thoughts or suggestions are welcome, thanks! And a picture of the final product.....

Howard_Jones · November 12, 2021

Here is the error

its average 2 grams head weight pr SWP - HEAD SIDE (see chart below)
Its Average 7 grams shaft weight pr SWP - WOODS'

its Average 9 grams shaft weight pr SWP - IRONS

its Average 5 grams grip weight pr SWP - ALL clubs

8 grams grip wgt / 5 = 1.6 SWP
(valid for grips where Balance point i 4.0" below the butt)

DRY FIT CHART FOR HEAD WGT - 1 SWP = GRAMS

Edited November 12, 2021 by Howard_Jones

Socrates · November 12, 2021

With a SW scale at your disposal, there is no excuse for guessing. You should have used a grip that weighed the correct weight. If I don't have a grip of the right weight I will take a similar grip and add a strip of lead tape to get it to the right weight. When dry fitting, I will take everything into account (adding tape to the grip or shaft, ferrules, and even adding weight for the epoxy). As HJ pointed out, different length clubs take different amounts of weight to move the SW scale.

Then make one club to see if your calculations were correct before making the rest. Much easier to take one apart than a whole set.

One thing that I should point out is that you are using a different shaft (and maybe a diff. head) but wanting to come out to a SW number that you think you want. I have found out the hard way, that any time you go to a different shaft type, you shouldn't assume that the old SW that you are used to will be the desired new SW. I would make one club without any tip weights and then add lead tape to the head slowly while hitting it to find a feel that works best. Then weigh it and then build the rest of the clubs to that weight. Depending on the shaft, I've been as much as 3 SW pts away from what I thought I would want. Some heavy. Some light.

Valtiel · November 13, 2021

Howard and Socrates are correct. You misapplied the "2g per SW point" which is for head weight, its 5g per SW point with grip weight. And Socrates' suggestion about building up the single club is how I would go about it as well.

Killer looking irons BTW! Love the color scheme and matching ferrules.

Howard_Jones · November 13, 2021

2 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

Howard and Socrates are correct. You misapplied the "2g per SW point" which is for head weight, its 5g per SW point with grip weight. And Socrates' suggestion about building up the single club is how I would go about it as well.

Killer looking irons BTW! Love the color scheme and matching ferrules.

I have look over his numbers, and it aint his misjudgment of grams pr SWP since he had a SW scale, but most likely grips with a thicker grip cap than the norm. 1/8" is 0.75 SWP so it dont take much to move SW by 1 point if the grips used has a thicker grip cap who makes the clubs longer, a different BP than standard, and to much epoxy combined..

To the OP, measure play length, and compare the datas with your notes for length w/o grips.
If you did not take notes, but have a extra grip, measure its length inside and compare to the outside length. i really think its all due to a thicker grip cap who makes the clubs longer than expected by 1/8 to 3/16", but your ruler for play length should tell.

PS when dry fitting, DONT use a split grip at all, if we dont have it fully seated, we mess with length, and get wrong return values from the SW scale. The difference from a standard 50 gram grip to ungripped is 9 SWP, so if target is D3 using a 50 gram grip, dry fit to E2 without grips.

Socrates · November 13, 2021

One error that many make is fooling the SW scale with heavier or lighter grips. You should always build around a std grip weight and arriving at a target SW without the grip. As above, 9 SWP without the grip. I didn't go there since that is a different can of worms that many can't wrap their head around.

Valtiel · November 13, 2021

16 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

I have look over his numbers, and it aint his misjudgment of grams pr SWP since he had a SW scale, but most likely grips with a thicker grip cap than the norm. 1/8" is 0.75 SWP so it dont take much to move SW by 1 point if the grips used has a thicker grip cap who makes the clubs longer, a different BP than standard, and to much epoxy combined..

To the OP, measure play length, and compare the datas with your notes for length w/o grips.
If you did not take notes, but have a extra grip, measure its length inside and compare to the outside length. i really think its all due to a thicker grip cap who makes the clubs longer than expected by 1/8 to 3/16", but your ruler for play length should tell.

PS when dry fitting, DONT use a split grip at all, if we dont have it fully seated, we mess with length, and get wrong return values from the SW scale. The difference from a standard 50 gram grip to ungripped is 9 SWP, so if target is D3 using a 50 gram grip, dry fit to E2 without grips.

I was referring to specifically to this comment: "My expectations were that after putting a 58 gram grip on when dry fitting with a 50 is they would come out to C9 if I use the 2 gram per swing weight analogy"

It sounds like he thought the 8g grip weight difference was going to read as a 4 SWP difference because he was thinking 2g/SWP when he should have been thinking 5.

Howard_Jones · November 13, 2021

1 hour ago, Valtiel said:

I was referring to specifically to this comment: "My expectations were that after putting a 58 gram grip on when dry fitting with a 50 is they would come out to C9 if I use the 2 gram per swing weight analogy"

It sounds like he thought the 8g grip weight difference was going to read as a 4 SWP difference because he was thinking 2g/SWP when he should have been thinking 5.

Yes that was my first thought, but he had a SW scale, and a target of D3, but they came out at D4, so it dont looks like that his wrong assumptions about grip wgt and SW is the issue since its only 1 SWP off target.

...or was his target C9? then my first post was right...

Edited November 13, 2021 by Howard_Jones

NicholasP · November 13, 2021

Gentleman, thank you for all the comments, I've learned more than a few things reading through them. The error certainly was a result of me thinking 2grams per swing weight point on the grip end, hence the heavier SW.

However, my error may have turned out to be a blessing in disguise. They feel great to me at D4, perhaps the slightly lighter shafts than what I had been previously playing (Modus 130 stiff ss1x), adds to the "feel"? Not really sure. Not only will I not make the same mistake again because of all the great info, but will build a club with no tip weight, add lead tape to get desired feel, then build off of that. Thanks again for all of the help, and taking the time to discuss, extremely informative.

Valtiel · November 13, 2021

1 hour ago, NicholasP said:

Gentleman, thank you for all the comments, I've learned more than a few things reading through them. The error certainly was a result of me thinking 2grams per swing weight point on the grip end, hence the heavier SW.

However, my error may have turned out to be a blessing in disguise. They feel great to me at D4, perhaps the slightly lighter shafts than what I had been previously playing (Modus 130 stiff ss1x), adds to the "feel"? Not really sure. Not only will I not make the same mistake again because of all the great info, but will build a club with no tip weight, add lead tape to get desired feel, then build off of that. Thanks again for all of the help, and taking the time to discuss, extremely informative.

There are a couple things at play here to consider, but it is helpful to know that this was an improvement as you can take that knowledge with you.

First, assuming you are using the LZ shafts in 6.0 stiff, you did indeed drop a little bit of shaft weight. Only a couple grams though as the Modus 130 in Stiff is basically a 125g shaft and soft stepping it would decrease that slightly as well. The biggest difference is in shaft profile as they are almost as opposite as you can make two steel shafts. The Modus 130 is extremely stiff in the midsection via thicker shaft walls and softer in the tip, and the LZ is the reverse of that. You're likely feeling some load in the mid section of the shaft now, especially combined with the extra weight down in the head. That overall vibe is something that definitely suits many people, and is something you can take with you into the woods as well if you're interesting in experimenting.

NicholasP · November 13, 2021

6 hours ago, Valtiel said:

There are a couple things at play here to consider, but it is helpful to know that this was an improvement as you can take that knowledge with you.

First, assuming you are using the LZ shafts in 6.0 stiff, you did indeed drop a little bit of shaft weight. Only a couple grams though as the Modus 130 in Stiff is basically a 125g shaft and soft stepping it would decrease that slightly as well. The biggest difference is in shaft profile as they are almost as opposite as you can make two steel shafts. The Modus 130 is extremely stiff in the midsection via thicker shaft walls and softer in the tip, and the LZ is the reverse of that. You're likely feeling some load in the mid section of the shaft now, especially combined with the extra weight down in the head. That overall vibe is something that definitely suits many people, and is something you can take with you into the woods as well if you're interesting in experimenting.

Indeed they are LZ 6.0, and you hit the nail on the head with the feel. I can see why people might think they play "loose" to flex, or describe them as "kicky". They have a very distinct feel through impact, I've never hit a shaft that has that kind of feel, always played x100 or the Modus. It snowed here yesterday, which means I probably won't be seeing any ball flight outdoors for a while.

I have a Mevo plus setup in my garage, played 36 on it yesterday, and got some range time in going back and forth between the 2 sets I currently have (J38 CB's w/modus vs 765 w/LZ). I'm working through taking the club back a little more shut as my tendency is to get quick and open up the face in the backswing causing me to flip or get handsy at impact. This is causing a significant drop in spin rates with every club in the bag, but the spin #'s are pretty equivalent with both sets, and it will come down to feel on the course. The LZ's definitely feel easier to swing and load vs the Modus, and overall feel very different.

Howard_Jones · November 13, 2021

8 hours ago, NicholasP said:

Gentleman, thank you for all the comments, I've learned more than a few things reading through them. The error certainly was a result of me thinking 2grams per swing weight point on the grip end, hence the heavier SW.

However, my error may have turned out to be a blessing in disguise. They feel great to me at D4, perhaps the slightly lighter shafts than what I had been previously playing (Modus 130 stiff ss1x), adds to the "feel"? Not really sure. Not only will I not make the same mistake again because of all the great info, but will build a club with no tip weight, add lead tape to get desired feel, then build off of that. Thanks again for all of the help, and taking the time to discuss, extremely informative.

Good for you, and now you have learned that SW values is something we measure AFTER our BASE club is tuned up, and we should do that without looking at grams or SW values at all, but strictly go by feel and impact pattern. When done we can measure the club and build the set.

Doing mistakes is how we learn, and its tons of "inventions" out there who was brought to life by mistakes where the plan was something else.

Even potato chips was made that way, or more correct, by a "pis....off chief" who had the potatos returned to the kitchen several times with complains, so in anger he sliced them as thin as he could and over fried them...today thats a billion dollar industry.