Masters Ticket Scalpers

[dcmidnight]

1 minute ago, TiScape said:

My son and I get tickets quite often through online sites. My son has it dialed in. He gets his tickets from the parking lot of the event right before it starts most of the time. That said, these aren’t sold out events. Not all these tix come from “scalpers”. For sporting events quite a few are season ticket holders that aren’t going to be attending. Right before the game starts they drop the prices to almost nothing because $8-$20 beats nothing! He’s gone to countless Angel games for ~$8. These re-sellers on the online sites start their prices high and adjust based on movement. That goes for hard to get events as well. Takes 2 seconds for them to go on and adjust their prices. 

 

I've done this on StubHub for hockey games before, bought them an hour before the game as the prices are going through the floor. People with season tickets who post some of their games for resale just start slashing the prices because its better than nothing!

 

I noticed an ad for a new app the other night that basically looks like a last minute scraper - it shows you the ticket prices for last minute games in your area.

[Hawkeye77]

17 minutes ago, dcmidnight said:

 

So was it the organizer or Ticketmaster that boned you?

 

I had bought front row seats to a show in October. At the last minute - literally two days before - they announced it was going to be a general admission pit instead. I said no way, no thanks - and they provided a refund on everything incl all the fees, no questions asked.

So far it’s the organizer, according to Ticketmaster’s position since it walked back its refund announcement back in ‘20.  Given the event is in 3 weeks I don’t see anything changing and I know wife and daughter will have fun. Last concert I attended was the Eagles pre-Frey’s passing and it was incredible, so missing Elton John won’t be a big deal for me - if it hadn’t been our anniversary we wouldn’t have gotten tickets to start with. 

[bladehunter]

20 minutes ago, dcmidnight said:

But no, I still am never going to be on board with forcing people to sell an item for a max price of the same price they bought it for. It makes no sense to me and is no different than a house or say a classic car. Its a limited supply item that the market has dictated is worth X. 

 

I recently started window shopping for a replica classic car. There are a few high end providers but very limited supply (that I would consider). Should they be forced to sell the car for the straight cost of their parts/labor? You'd say of course not, thats dumb, the car is worth what the market says its worth.

That’s a muddy pond my friend.  Classic car values are like partying in Bangkok.  Be mo careful.  
 

I’m sure you know that some cars are restored and some are just a paint job …. But I digress.  
 

i think his point is to not have guys reselling  at all. Not that they’d have to do so for no profit.     You’re describing working for free.  Nobody is working for free with ticket sales.  The band or team gets paid.  That should be the end of that food chain.  
 

since cars keeps coming up. Classic   Auto auctions were mentioned as a synonymous situation for stub hub.  Not the auction itself but that the market will pay what it will pay.  It’s true and false.  Just like the auctions , it’s a false market.  It’s creating a bubble that otherwise wouldn’t be. 
 

with cars. Never ever buy  at one of these sales. They are not wholesale events like the ones for wrecked used cars.   99.9999% of the time after fees you pay way too much. Only sell.  Never buy. We don’t use auction sales for valuation in my business. Not directly.  We only use  them to see the fluctuation.  Never to say “ well I saw that 65 R code Shelby bring $325k at auction… that must be what mine is worth” .  It’s like -No. There are soo many other variables it’s nuts.    The exceptions are like what you describe.  Late in the day , monsoon rain storm, or maybe tornados in the area , 120 degree day , or during the start of a major health event …… some exceptions I’ve seen off the top of my head when cars bring  no $.  Just like your last second for a ballgame example.
 

which is what my opinion is coming from.  If the ticket sights didn’t exist/weren’t allowed , you could buy a ticket relatively cheap all the time if you have the connections to get access. Which wouldn’t be hard to do if you were interested in live events locally.  
 

 

[golfortennis]

29 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

That’s a muddy pond my friend.  Classic car values are like partying in Bangkok.  Be mo careful.  
 

I’m sure you know that some cars are restored and some are just a paint job …. But I digress.  
 

i think his point is to not have guys reselling  at all. Not that they’d have to do so for no profit.     You’re describing working for free.  Nobody is working for free with ticket sales.  The band or team gets paid.  That should be the end of that food chain.  
 

since cars keeps coming up. Classic   Auto auctions were mentioned as a synonymous situation for stub hub.  Not the auction itself but that the market will pay what it will pay.  It’s true and false.  Just like the auctions , it’s a false market.  It’s creating a bubble that otherwise wouldn’t be. 
 

with cars. Never ever buy  at one of these sales. They are not wholesale events like the ones for wrecked used cars.   99.9999% of the time after fees you pay way too much. Only sell.  Never buy. We don’t use auction sales for valuation in my business. Not directly.  We only use  them to see the fluctuation.  Never to say “ well I saw that 65 R code Shelby bring $325k at auction… that must be what mine is worth” .  It’s like -No. There are soo many other variables it’s nuts.    The exceptions are like what you describe.  Late in the day , monsoon rain storm, or maybe tornados in the area , 120 degree day , or during the start of a major health event …… some exceptions I’ve seen off the top of my head when cars bring  no $.  Just like your last second for a ballgame example.
 

which is what my opinion is coming from.  If the ticket sights didn’t exist/weren’t allowed , you could buy a ticket relatively cheap all the time if you have the connections to get access. Which wouldn’t be hard to do if you were interested in live events locally.  
 

 

 

The show I linked would have some bad news for you.  A lot of the artists/teams/originators are in on the reseller market.  

 

It's a crooked racket, but there appear to be very few innocent parties.   

 

 

 

[bladehunter]

2 hours ago, golfortennis said:

 

The show I linked would have some bad news for you.  A lot of the artists/teams/originators are in on the reseller market.  

 

It's a crooked racket, but there appear to be very few innocent parties.   

 

 

 

Oh I’m sure.  But still stands to reason that if the secondary market didn’t exist these bad actors Would be kept at bay.  That particular part would be same as putting your thumb on the scale as a butcher. 

[manku]

43 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Oh I’m sure.  But still stands to reason that if the secondary market didn’t exist these bad actors Would be kept at bay.  That particular part would be same as putting your thumb on the scale as a butcher. 

back in the late 70s/early 80s, there was no legal scalping in nyc.  And obviously nothing online!   
 

but scalping was legal across the river in Jersey. 
 

meanwhile, many black markets flourished… from shady scalpers outside venue, to high end brokers with unlisted phone numbers.  
 

prices were often 10x face value, or more.  And this was when money was a lot scarcer.  
 

the transparency and security of stubhub is miles better than back in the day. 

 

 

[golfortennis]

1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

Oh I’m sure.  But still stands to reason that if the secondary market didn’t exist these bad actors Would be kept at bay.  That particular part would be same as putting your thumb on the scale as a butcher. 

 

I guess I should have made it clearer when I said in on it.  The guy literally said that promoters/originators will hand over a swath of tickets to a scalper, and take a cut of the price the scalper gets.  This way, the band gets to say "we keep our prices accessible" while still cashing in.  The originators literally are enabling these scalpers.

 

The auction process showed the market is willing to pay what ends up being the scalper's prices.  The guy who was the "best" at the bot work had his company shut down in 2010.  He came back with a new company offering a program that would keep the bots out of the process.  He approached some major bands, venues, sports teams, and no one was interested.

 

Who is really the bad actor here? 

[bladehunter]

24 minutes ago, manku said:

back in the late 70s/early 80s, there was no legal scalping in nyc.  And obviously nothing online!   
 

but scalping was legal across the river in Jersey. 
 

meanwhile, many black markets flourished… from shady scalpers outside venue, to high end brokers with unlisted phone numbers.  
 

prices were often 10x face value, or more.  And this was when money was a lot scarcer.  
 

the transparency and security of stubhub is miles better than back in the day. 

 

 

Right.   I’m not sure about money being more plentiful now. But that’s another topic.  
 

But on tickets , that’s nyc.   Locally here. Near Augusta.  You’d just go buy the ticket. If it were a concert.  You go to the box office at the school , or auditorium  and buy one. Plenty of events you could buy day of as you walked in.    
 

I realize this will be a very very unpopular opinion.  But. From here I see this as bringing NYC issues here , the global ticket market that is.  And Augusta being “ our “ major , it seems like it shouldn’t be this hard to go. it’s literally the only major I care about going to in person.   Kind of like if a Chicago native went their whole life watching baseball and never set foot in wrigley because the attendance was dominated by folks flying in from the northeast and California.  
 

anyway. I’ll try to stay out of this topic.  Its an irrational want that will soon pass. 

[golfortennis]

11 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Right.   I’m not sure about money being more plentiful now. But that’s another topic.  
 

But on tickets , that’s nyc.   Locally here. Near Augusta.  You’d just go buy the ticket. If it were a concert.  You go to the box office at the school , or auditorium  and buy one. Plenty of events you could buy day of as you walked in.    
 

I realize this will be a very very unpopular opinion.  But. From here I see this as bringing NYC issues here , the global ticket market that is.  And Augusta being “ our “ major , it seems like it shouldn’t be this hard to go. it’s literally the only major I care about going to in person.   Kind of like if a Chicago native went their whole life watching baseball and never set foot in wrigley because the attendance was dominated by folks flying in from the northeast and California.  
 

anyway. I’ll try to stay out of this topic.  Its an irrational want that will soon pass. 

 

Don't stay out of the topic.  Even if I don't agree with you, you add to the thread.

[dmbolp]

No one is biting on the $1k Mondays; that's a good sign.  Sellers are going to have to drop their prices...soon

[manku]

1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

Right.   I’m not sure about money being more plentiful now. But that’s another topic.  
 

But on tickets , that’s nyc.   Locally here. Near Augusta.  You’d just go buy the ticket. If it were a concert.  You go to the box office at the school , or auditorium  and buy one. Plenty of events you could buy day of as you walked in.    
 

I realize this will be a very very unpopular opinion.  But. From here I see this as bringing NYC issues here , the global ticket market that is.  And Augusta being “ our “ major , it seems like it shouldn’t be this hard to go. it’s literally the only major I care about going to in person.   Kind of like if a Chicago native went their whole life watching baseball and never set foot in wrigley because the attendance was dominated by folks flying in from the northeast and California.  
 

anyway. I’ll try to stay out of this topic.  Its an irrational want that will soon pass. 

 

I agree...unfortunately, the Masters has become not only a bucket list event, but a place where many of the jet set descend right before their next event at Churchill Downs!

 

There is no easy answer re scalping/resales, unfortunately. 

 

As I said before, make Stubhub your friend...buy tickets at last minute for big discounts, get rid of unwanted inventory.  

 

And try and make some personal connections so you have access to events at face value, or nothing at all!

[Hawkeye77]

6 hours ago, bladehunter said:

That’s a muddy pond my friend.  Classic car values are like partying in Bangkok.  Be mo careful.  

 

 

When you aren't expecting a stick . . .

[StudentGolfer4]

I’ve only read the last 2 pages but a couple of things to add. 
 

I frequently buy on both Stubhub and Ticketmaster. I have sold a handful of sporting event tickets using TM. TM allows you to automatically drop the prices as the event approaches. Say I list 2 tickets for $100 for a game a week away. TM will ask if you if you want them to automatically lower your tickets as the event approaches, say within 48 hours. If you click yes, you then decide what the lowest you will be willing to take for the tickets is. 
 

My hometown NBA team has started pricing tickets differently depending on the opponent and day of game. Pretty much any Friday-Sunday game is more expensive along with in demand teams and players. I have heard this is an attempt for the team to make the money instead of the people who resell their ticket but I have no idea if this is true. It varies by ticket cost and isn’t a direct percentage increase across the board but it’s a significant difference. Just looked and a face value ticket at $9 now becomes $12. $42 ticket is $57. $119 face is now $133. 
 

If you are selected in the ticket lottery is each practice round the same for Masters tickets? How about each tournament round? 

[dmbolp]

MON-WED are $75 face value

 

THUR-SUN are $115

 

https://tickets.masters.com/en_US/ticketsInfo.html#:~:text=Daily Tournament tickets cost %24115,tickets will be awarded first.

Edited March 4, 2022 by dmbolp

[dmbolp]

https://golf.com/news/tournaments/2020-masters-tickets-prices-plummet-stubhub/?amp=1

[dmbolp]

MON - absolutely no change

TUE - 4 more tickets in the cheapest bucket

WED - the 20 ticket drop yesterday has corrected so it must have been a case of a seller(s) removing their tickets for a day, and then adding them back 

 

 

	MON		TUE		WED
	#	Low	#	Low	#	Low
3/1	144	38 @ 1,100-1,250	235	53 @ 1,350-1,500	188	34 @ 1,750-2,000
3/2	141	37 @ 1,100-1,250	243	49 @ 1,300-1,500	189	32 @ 1,750-2,000
3/3	139	38 @ 1,000-1,250	244	52 @ 1,300-1,500	166	40 @ 1,900-2,100
3/4	139	38 @ 1,000-1,250	249	56 @ 1,300-1,500	188	50 @ 1,900-2,100

[BlackDiamondPar5]

22 hours ago, dcmidnight said:

But no, I still am never going to be on board with forcing people to sell an item for a max price of the same price they bought it for. It makes no sense to me and is no different than a house or say a classic car. Its a limited supply item that the market has dictated is worth X. 

 

I recently started window shopping for a replica classic car. There are a few high end providers but very limited supply (that I would consider). Should they be forced to sell the car for the straight cost of their parts/labor? You'd say of course not, thats dumb, the car is worth what the market says its worth.

I just don't agree that it's valid to compare investing in classic cars or a house as to what happens to concert tickets.

 

With the case of a house, even if you don't live in it you may improve it and then sell it at market price or simply rent it out.  While you own it you still have to manage it, maintain it and carry the cost of capital.  The buyer has provided some type of value in the supply chain.  Same as for a classic car--- most of these classics are rare because most are decades in the junkyard so there is relative few that have survived. Those that survive are often refurbished and improved.  The shortage and value is not derived because people scooped up all the inventory 5 decades ago and held it hostage.

   

The collective practice of ticket buyers that never intend to use the tickets is the exact opposite. Technology has allowed people from around the world can easily insert themselves in the supply chain, hold inventory hostage and will provide no value.  There can be millions of excess buyers from around the world that collectively create shortages to an event.  This drives higher prices and in part blocks out the legitimate buyers that want to attend.  They add no value in the supply chain and thus are nothing but Vermin.  If someone can't think of a better way to make money then they are pretty much oxygen cheaters to humanity. 

[dcmidnight]

You think that everyone who buys a classic car buys it to drive? ROFL. I know one guy who buy cars just to put them in his collections, knowing they are rare and going to appreciate. Nothing more than that. Some of the most beautiful cars you've ever seen - just sitting in a warehouse. Granted the warehouse is nicer than my actual house...but still.

 

I guess tickets are the one limited-number asset in this world that you should only be allowed to buy and sell for face value. But I get that there are some hurt feelings here, so we're clearly not going to reach agreement.

 

[golfortennis]

40 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

I just don't agree that it's valid to compare investing in classic cars or a house as to what happens to concert tickets.

 

With the case of a house, even if you don't live in it you may improve it and then sell it at market price or simply rent it out.  While you own it you still have to manage it, maintain it and carry the cost of capital.  The buyer has provided some type of value in the supply chain.  Same as for a classic car--- most of these classics are rare because most are decades in the junkyard so there is relative few that have survived. Those that survive are often refurbished and improved.  The shortage and value is not derived because people scooped up all the inventory 5 decades ago and held it hostage.

   

The collective practice of ticket buyers that never intend to use the tickets is the exact opposite. Technology has allowed people from around the world can easily insert themselves in the supply chain, hold inventory hostage and will provide no value.  There can be millions of excess buyers from around the world that collectively create shortages to an event.  This drives higher prices and in part blocks out the legitimate buyers that want to attend.  They add no value in the supply chain and thus are nothing but Vermin.  If someone can't think of a better way to make money then they are pretty much oxygen cheaters to humanity. 

 

But again, when the ticket originators are in on the "people who insert themselves into the supply chain", who is really the bad guy?

 

 

 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

32 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

But again, when the ticket originators are in on the "people who insert themselves into the supply chain", who is really the bad guy?

 

 

 

Was that in the podcast you posted yesterday? Asking because I haven't had a chance to listen yet.--- Thank you

 

1 hour ago, dcmidnight said:

You think that everyone who buys a classic car buys it to drive? ROFL. I know one guy who buy cars just to put them in his collections, knowing they are rare and going to appreciate. Nothing more than that. Some of the most beautiful cars you've ever seen - just sitting in a warehouse. Granted the warehouse is nicer than my actual house...but still.

 

I guess tickets are the one limited-number asset in this world that you should only be allowed to buy and sell for face value. But I get that there are some hurt feelings here, so we're clearly not going to reach agreement.

 

The rarity of the classic car is a completely different root cause.  Who said anything about needing to drive the car? 

 

Buying tickets you don't intend to use and create a supply shortage to flip a profit is akin to sweeping the grocery stores for all the toilet paper and creating a shortage and sell it on eBay.  No hurt feelings here unless someone objects to what they are, Ticket Vermin. 

[dmbolp]

17 hours ago, dmbolp said:

No one is biting on the $1k Mondays; that's a good sign.  Sellers are going to have to drop their prices...soon

 

This post didn't age well; the $1Ks are gone 😮

[golfortennis]

5 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Was that in the podcast you posted yesterday? Asking because I haven't had a chance to listen yet.--- Thank you

 

 

Yes.  After listening to it, I have come to your point of view to a certain degree, but I think it's more insidious than we think.  The scalpers are providing a service, but not as much to the customers I thought originally.  

 

Although I still stand by my original statement they are simply mispricing their tickets.  

[BlackDiamondPar5]

3 hours ago, golfortennis said:

 

Yes.  After listening to it, I have come to your point of view to a certain degree, but I think it's more insidious than we think.  The scalpers are providing a service, but not as much to the customers I thought originally.  

 

Although I still stand by my original statement they are simply mispricing their tickets.  

I listened this afternoon. Really good stuff. Thank you.

[dmbolp]

MON - The 4 $1Ks were purchased (or removed)

TUE - 3 sellers dropped their prices under $1,300, with a new low of $1K

WED - Few more tickets, low of $1,750

 

	MON		TUE		WED
	#	Low	#	Low	#	Low
3/1	144	38 @ 1,100-1,250	235	53 @ 1,350-1,500	188	34 @ 1,750-2,000
3/2	141	37 @ 1,100-1,250	243	49 @ 1,300-1,500	189	32 @ 1,750-2,000
3/3	139	38 @ 1,000-1,250	244	52 @ 1,300-1,500	166	40 @ 1,900-2,100
3/4	139	38 @ 1,000-1,250	249	56 @ 1,300-1,500	188	50 @ 1,900-2,100
3/5	135	34 @ 1,100-1,250	250	56 @ 1,100-1,500	195	58 @ 1,750-2,100

[Hawkeye77]

On 3/3/2022 at 6:19 PM, manku said:

 

I agree...unfortunately, the Masters has become not only a bucket list event, but a place where many of the jet set descend right before their next event at Churchill Downs!

 

 

No idea what the demographic is on those who have had tournament badges in their names for decades, but after two days there a few years ago I can say with certainty it wasn't anything like a "jet set" atmosphere.  Ordinary folks everywhere we went.  Had Hawkeye cap on one afternoon, my daughter had a UI golf shirt on and lots of "Go Hawks" and "Hey, Iowa" at random (pretty sure it wasn't Jeff Bezos yelling at us), friendly people in lines, most people excited to be there and chatting up this or that, and so forth.  Military volunteers from the nearby facility were super friendly.

 

Seeing Condi Rice was a little chilling just because of her stature, but she was hosting a tee box and was all friendly and smiles - still regret we didn't walk by before she got busy, my daughter would have enjoyed meeting her.  The member "overseeing" the 5th green, where we were sitting for the Par 3 contest, was an older guy and a ton of fun - maybe they know which members to send out as ambassadors, lol.

 

So, no idea where you coming up with that, but not at all our experience over 1 1/2 days of walking all over the place.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Hawkeye77

[Vespar]

On 3/3/2022 at 10:05 PM, dmbolp said:

https://golf.com/news/tournaments/2020-masters-tickets-prices-plummet-stubhub/?amp=1

My understanding of 2020 tickets plummeting was due to covid and possible limiting attendance, no attendance and a Refund to those that purchased tickets. If you could sell your tickets above face value you made out right? stike while the iron was hot.

 

All those people that bought tickets on the secondary market may have eventually lost out completely because only the original ticket owner ( legally obtained) was refunded and given the chance to repurchase later.

 

2020 isn't a great example due to covid

[dmbolp]

13 minutes ago, Vespar said:

My understanding of 2020 tickets plummeting was due to covid and possible limiting attendance, no attendance and a Refund to those that purchased tickets. If you could sell your tickets above face value you made out right? stike while the iron was hot.

 

All those people that bought tickets on the secondary market may have eventually lost out completely because only the original ticket owner ( legally obtained) was refunded and given the chance to repurchase later.

 

2020 isn't a great example due to covid

 

Stubhub purchasers are refunded when the purchased ticket no longer gets them into the event; I assume the same for any other legit broker

[dmbolp]

We've cracked the $1k barrier for MON...$975 now available 🙂

[Hawkeye77]

35 minutes ago, dmbolp said:

We've cracked the $1k barrier for MON...$975 now available 🙂

Which you can find with Google, right?

[dmbolp]

7 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Which you can find with Google, right?

 

That would be one (long) way to do it