Could a 4-capper beat Tommy Fleetwood with a 10 shot lead?

[ezpz]

lol Rick is not a true wrx 4 handicap so the comparison doesnt fly. A true golfwrx 4 hits 16 greens in reg but just gets held back by his shortgame and putting.

[Obee]

So what's the story with Shiels? What kind of golfer is he, really? Looks like a scratch player to me. Definitely has a better, more consistent move than any 4 I know. I only watched a couple swings, but definitely looked better than 4.

[MMB1500]

On 12/18/2021 at 1:55 PM, DON SVO said:

Rick putted atrociously in this match up. I haven’t seen many videos of him putting to know or not, but does he always putt that poorly? A few of those short misses were cringe-worthy. 

 

Yes. His putting his horrific, especially for someone at his level. 

[9thGreenAt9]

I thought Tommy was just being humble when he said anything under par would be an "acceptable day out". I think he had his B-/C+ game to be honest and still shot E. Rick played about how a +1/scratch would play on a semi-tough 7300 yard course in the cold. in terms of distance Tommy just hits it much purer than Rick and that was when we had the bigger distance gaps off the tee, Rick when he hits it on a dime is plenty long and can keep up with TF. nothing was surprising in this video

[iBanesto]

9 hours ago, Obee said:

So what's the story with Shiels? What kind of golfer is he, really? Looks like a scratch player to me. Definitely has a better, more consistent move than any 4 I know. I only watched a couple swings, but definitely looked better than 4.

 

@Obee

 

Found this article - https://www.golfwrx.com/494714/rick-shiels-shoots-41-in-3-round-pro-am-tourney-golfwrx-members-discuss/.

 

IMO I would say Shiels is a scratch handicap. He can play but he can also shoot high numbers as well.

 

It looks like he is at least the most subscribed Golf YouTuber.

[aenemated]

2 hours ago, MMB1500 said:

Yes. His putting his horrific, especially for someone at his level. 

 

Yeah, he's pretty transparent about his putting and chipping being less than stellar. And he doesn't hide it in his vids.

 

I dig Rick. He can be a BIT much sometimes but I enjoy his enthusiasm. 

[Obee]

2 hours ago, iBanesto said:

 

@Obee

 

Found this article - https://www.golfwrx.com/494714/rick-shiels-shoots-41-in-3-round-pro-am-tourney-golfwrx-members-discuss/.

 

IMO I would say Shiels is a scratch handicap. He can play but he can also shoot high numbers as well.

 

It looks like he is at least the most subscribed Golf YouTuber.

makes sense. Guy needs some Obee putting love. 😉

[aenemated]

46 minutes ago, Obee said:

makes sense. Guy needs some Obee putting love. 😉

 

EVERYONE needs some @Obee putting love, my man. 🙂

 

Didn't I see one of your stats sheets where you had like 27 putts at Rustic Canyon?! Pretty sure I've 4 putted on #7 when they've had it stuck up on that back left tier. That placement is just vicious. 

 

Oy, those greens. And they love sucker pin placements. 

Edited December 24, 2021 by aenemated

[ezpz]

17 hours ago, Obee said:

So what's the story with Shiels? What kind of golfer is he, really? Looks like a scratch player to me. Definitely has a better, more consistent move than any 4 I know. I only watched a couple swings, but definitely looked better than 4.

He is scratch for sure 🙂 if someone would upload a regular muni 4 playing a course like that in those conditions it would probably be hard to watch...

[Scrab99]

On 12/18/2021 at 12:22 PM, iBanesto said:

Fleetwood's game wasn't that sharp that day.

 

Great watch though.

No way Ricks a scratch lol

[Valtiel]

On 12/23/2021 at 5:57 PM, aenemated said:

 

Yeah, he's pretty transparent about his putting and chipping being less than stellar. And he doesn't hide it in his vids.

 

I dig Rick. He can be a BIT much sometimes but I enjoy his enthusiasm. 

 

On 12/23/2021 at 7:41 AM, Obee said:

So what's the story with Shiels? What kind of golfer is he, really? Looks like a scratch player to me. Definitely has a better, more consistent move than any 4 I know. I only watched a couple swings, but definitely looked better than 4.

In addition to the short game stuff mentioned above, which is very true if you ever watch his videos demoing say, bunker shots (pretty mediocre mechanics and erratic results), he also has some slightly wonky swing mechanics that completely tank him when he is off. He has a very early wrist set and a lot of clubface rotation, creating a pretty open face throughout his backswing:




He's tried to fix this in the past but it hasn't stuck. Combine that with his pretty quick transition and generally in to out club path and he generally favors a harder draw flight with a lot of hand action to square/slightly shut the club. I think if Rick was able to dedicate the time with a really good teacher and stick with it he could "get to the next level" so to speak. His playing with Fleetwood in the OP video felt like a pretty good example of his "on" game, minus the poor putting. When he is off there are definitely more snap hooks and blocks because of the aforementioned mechanics. 

[mizuno player]

Just listen to the sound when their irons. One goes thud or thwack one goes click clank. Tough conditions but a tour pro carrying his own bag. Impressive. 

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

9 hours ago, Valtiel said:

 

In addition to the short game stuff mentioned above, which is very true if you ever watch his videos demoing say, bunker shots (pretty mediocre mechanics and erratic results), he also has some slightly wonky swing mechanics that completely tank him when he is off. He has a very early wrist set and a lot of clubface rotation, creating a pretty open face throughout his backswing:




He's tried to fix this in the past but it hasn't stuck. Combine that with his pretty quick transition and generally in to out club path and he generally favors a harder draw flight with a lot of hand action to square/slightly shut the club. I think if Rick was able to dedicate the time with a really good teacher and stick with it he could "get to the next level" so to speak. His playing with Fleetwood in the OP video felt like a pretty good example of his "on" game, minus the poor putting. When he is off there are definitely more snap hooks and blocks because of the aforementioned mechanics. 

 

That was certainly some of the best golf I've seen him play, minus, as you say, his putting.

[AntLockyer]

Ultimately Rick's Jon doesn't rely on him playing under par so no need to fix it.

 

[GolfTurkey]

On 12/24/2021 at 1:41 AM, Obee said:

So what's the story with Shiels? What kind of golfer is he, really? Looks like a scratch player to me. Definitely has a better, more consistent move than any 4 I know. I only watched a couple swings, but definitely looked better than 4.

 

Pretty sure he put in enough cards for a handicap this year and it was a +1.

 

Generally the trend on forums is to under-rate players. I remember someone posting a grainy video of "themselves" practising in a large hat in the "rate my game" section of a tennis forum. There was lots of helpful criticism with a general consensus that the person was a 4.5 player with the potential to be a 5.0 if they worked hard on a few things. Turned out that the player was Andy Murray!

 

For reference: https://www.doittennis.com/knowledge-center/ntrp-rating-system

[AndersUK]

Rick played 10 rounds last year including some challenging tracks and in June 2021 his index (per WHS) was calculated at +1.2.  He is a much better player than when he turned pro as a 4 cap.

[Fischputza]

He should play Kevin Na. With a bit of luck he has 20 shots on him after 2 holes....

[Christosterone]

Outstanding video.

I was a fan both…now I’m a huge fan

 

tommy’s knock down wedge swing is a work of art…belongs in the louvre

 

-chris

[Ty_Webb]

On 12/23/2021 at 10:41 AM, Obee said:

So what's the story with Shiels? What kind of golfer is he, really? Looks like a scratch player to me. Definitely has a better, more consistent move than any 4 I know. I only watched a couple swings, but definitely looked better than 4.

 

The 4 and +6 that they both mention at the beginning would have both been on the old UK handicap system. On that system, +6 is ridiculously impressive and 4 is half way decent. Tournament play only and it's a ratcheted moving average rather than just the average of some subset of last 20 scores. To get from 4 to scratch shooting level with the course rating would take 8 rounds in the new system and 19 rounds under the old UK system. 4 there is probably similar to a 2 index now. And he's probably got a little better since. 

 

In this video I think RS played probably a little better than average tee to green, but poorly around and on the green. TF wasn't at his best. If they played 100 times on this format, I'd back TF to win maybe 75-80 of them (I'm pretty much purely making this up, but it's a semi-educated guess). That course's slope would have been pretty high, so the difference in ability would be accentuated. If they played a 6,400 yard muni, I'd bet Shiels would win most of the time with a ten shot start.

[Christosterone]

Shiels driver test videos are the best out there imho…he is funny, engaging and truly loves golf..

 

And he has a great setup to give us a good idea about new equipment…

 

-chris

[Obee]

9 hours ago, AndersUK said:

Rick played 10 rounds last year including some challenging tracks and in June 2021 his index (per WHS) was calculated at +1.2.  He is a much better player than when he turned pro as a 4 cap.

 

Kind of what I was thinking. The guy is no 4-capper.

[DIIV]

“Just shutup Rick..” someone had to say it, Tommy

[DON SVO]

58 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

 

The 4 and +6 that they both mention at the beginning would have both been on the old UK handicap system. On that system, +6 is ridiculously impressive and 4 is half way decent. Tournament play only and it's a ratcheted moving average rather than just the average of some subset of last 20 scores. To get from 4 to scratch shooting level with the course rating would take 8 rounds in the new system and 19 rounds under the old UK system. 4 there is probably similar to a 2 index now. And he's probably got a little better since. 

 

In this video I think RS played probably a little better than average tee to green, but poorly around and on the green. TF wasn't at his best. If they played 100 times on this format, I'd back TF to win maybe 75-80 of them (I'm pretty much purely making this up, but it's a semi-educated guess). That course's slope would have been pretty high, so the difference in ability would be accentuated. If they played a 6,400 yard muni, I'd bet Shiels would win most of the time with a ten shot start.

 

Shiels isn't SHORT, but 7,300 in damp cold sucks. He played great golf tee to green. What's scary is that if he didn't miss one of those handful of shorties he would have squeaked by. Better putting, better wedges, he might have won that thing 4&2 or 3&2.

[Ty_Webb]

4 minutes ago, DON SVO said:

 

Shiels isn't SHORT, but 7,300 in damp cold sucks. He played great golf tee to green. What's scary is that if he didn't miss one of those handful of shorties he would have squeaked by. Better putting, better wedges, he might have won that thing 4&2 or 3&2.

 

Tommy also made two really good up and downs on 17 and 18 to salvage that half. It could easily have gone Rick's way on the day. Tommy also holed basically nothing all day. 7300 in cold and wet is seriously tough. I'd definitely take it to play with Tommy Fleetwood though. He seems like a fun guy.

[DON SVO]

Just now, Ty_Webb said:

 

Tommy also made two really good up and downs on 17 and 18 to salvage that half. It could easily have gone Rick's way on the day. Tommy also holed basically nothing all day. 7300 in cold and wet is seriously tough. I'd definitely take it to play with Tommy Fleetwood though. He seems like a fun guy.

 

Agreed on all counts! I'd love to show Fleetwood what a real four(teen) cap looks like from 7,300!

[bsmit115]

It was quite entertaining. At some points, you could tell TF was thinking, "Oh do shut up Rick." Even well before he said it. 

[Valtiel]

On 12/26/2021 at 2:42 PM, Valtiel said:

His playing with Fleetwood in the OP video felt like a pretty good example of his "on" game, minus the poor putting. When he is off there are definitely more snap hooks and blocks because of the aforementioned mechanics. 

And his playing with Westwood is exactly what I was referring to re: his "off" game:
 

 

[aenemated]

Just watched that one a little while ago. First handful of holes were pretty grim. 

[iBanesto]

Next challenger: Lee Westwood.

 

 

[iBanesto]

 

 

Adam Scott is a great bloke. 🇦🇺

 

But 15 over though from Shiels... 😅

Edited July 23, 2022 by iBanesto