Tiger Better Without Usual Length

[mark174ace]

I think we should tamper down the excitement about Tiger being anything close to being "back". He played 36 holes on a very flat golf course and NEEDED a cart.  He is a very proud guy and probably hated having to use that cart and would not have played this weekend under any other circumstances. He was clearly in a lot of pain as the look on his face by the time he got to the back nine of both rounds told the story. I am sure he is just happy to still have a leg and be able to play with his son.

 

He has nothing to prove and hopefully the accident was a wake up call on bad decision making. Its one thing to suffer through the embarrassment of running into a fire hydrant because your ex wife trying to kill you with a golf club and its another thing to lose your freaking leg. The first thing is basically a Benny Hill skit that cost him some $$$ he could easily afford and the second is permanently life altering. 

[DON SVO]

2 minutes ago, mark174ace said:

I think we should tamper down the excitement about Tiger being anything close to being "back". He played 36 holes on a very flat golf course and NEEDED a cart.  He is a very proud guy and probably hated having to use that cart and would not have played this weekend under any other circumstances. He was clearly in a lot of pain as the look on his face by the time he got to the back nine of both rounds told the story. I am sure he is just happy to still have a leg and be able to play with his son.

 

He has nothing to prove and hopefully the accident was a wake up call on bad decision making. Its one thing to suffer through the embarrassment of running into a fire hydrant because your ex wife trying to kill you with a golf club and its another thing to lose your freaking leg. The first thing is basically a Benny Hill skit that cost him some $$$ he could easily afford and the second is permanently life altering. 

 

... there was another one mixed in between these two and you'd have thought it might have been a good wake-up call as well. Perhaps this last one was a much more solid nudge, Compartment Syndrome ain't a joke and (like Tiger alluded to) it could have led to him having his leg amputated. 

 

I personally was just really happy seeing him play good golf and have a genuinely good time doing so with Charlie.

[Christosterone]

2006 Hoylake was the greatest week of ball striking planet earth has ever seen….imho

 

-chris

[dlygrisse]

His iron play was good, I wouldn't call it great last weekend.  HIs distance control is not where he wants it, I am sure, he left a numerous shots short of pin high.  I don't think he really knows what kind of swing speed he is getting swing to swing yet.  Remember he is teeing it up with a one club drop, playing a resort course with no real rough.   He still has a long way to go to get tournament ready.  If his back holds up I am sure he will get there.  

 

That being said he is certainly one of the greatest iron players ever, over the course of his career.  You can argue that Johnny Miller for a period of time, Hogan, Nelson, Jack with the long and middle irons, Trevino with the short irons were better, but for longevity Tiger was REALLY good through the bag from 2 iron to LW.  No real weaknesses there at all for any periods of time.  

 

When Tiger was in his prime, and later when he was messing around with Haney and  smh..Foley and his driver was often going sideways everyone on this site was saying if he dialed it back 10-15%  he could be a great driver of the ball.  Welp, now we are going to find out, Tiger is going to have to swing at more of an average swing speed and play control golf, probably more because of his back than his leg long term. I think to really be dominant you need power, but with Tiger's skill and mind he certainly will figure out a way to manage his way around the course in an optimal manner for his current skill set.  IF HIS BACK HOLDS UP.  

[bscinstnct]

42 minutes ago, mark174ace said:

I think we should tamper down the excitement about Tiger being anything close to being "back". He played 36 holes on a very flat golf course and NEEDED a cart.  He is a very proud guy and probably hated having to use that cart and would not have played this weekend under any other circumstances. He was clearly in a lot of pain as the look on his face by the time he got to the back nine of both rounds told the story. I am sure he is just happy to still have a leg and be able to play with his son.

 

He has nothing to prove and hopefully the accident was a wake up call on bad decision making. Its one thing to suffer through the embarrassment of running into a fire hydrant because your ex wife trying to kill you with a golf club and its another thing to lose your freaking leg. The first thing is basically a Benny Hill skit that cost him some $$$ he could easily afford and the second is permanently life altering. 

 

🤣

 

He back to losing his leg again?!

[Krt22]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

 

🤣

 

He back to losing his leg again?!

The golfwrx orthopedic surgeons said he would never walk again, one mis-step at a tournament and the leg might come right off!

[DON SVO]

19 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

The golfwrx orthopedic surgeons said he would never walk again, one mis-step at a tournament and the leg might come right off!

 

I was hoping it would explode like stepping on a claymore...

[bscinstnct]

2 minutes ago, DON SVO said:

 

I was hoping it would explode like stepping on a claymore...

🤣

 

 

[jomatty]

He’s already hitting it over 300.  He has a lot to overcome but distance is unlikely to be the issue.  Walking 4 rounds in a row without agitating his back is probably the biggest challenge.

[Santiago Golf]

2 hours ago, Christosterone said:

2006 Hoylake was the greatest week of ball striking planet earth has ever seen….imho

 

-chris

 

Tiger hinted at playing in the Open next year at the Old Course

 

Honestly his best chance considering its a flat course & power isn't needed

 

 

Tiger knows what his body can do & listening to the doctors 

 

He said when he came back to playing tournament golf after the DUI

that he had no real expectations 

 

Its the same situation right now, he has no expectations and knows 

that this isn't about beating the world week in week

This is about being able to walk again

[Krt22]

6 minutes ago, Santiago Golf said:

 

Tiger hinted at playing in the Open next year at the Old Course

 

Honestly his best chance considering its a flat course & power isn't needed

 

 

Tiger knows what his body can do & listening to the doctors 

 

He said when he came back to playing tournament golf after the DUI

that he had no real expectations 

 

Its the same situation right now, he has no expectations and knows 

that this isn't about beating the world week in week

This is about being able to walk again

Tiger is also Notorious for slow playing everything. It's far better to under-promise and over-deliver than vice versa. I would not be shocked if he showed up at Augusta 

[RoyalMustang]

18 hours ago, bobfoster said:

This is the biggest issue ^^^

 

Actually Krt22, I think he mentioned exactly that in one of the interviews. His swing has certainly come back - probably far quicker than anyone thought it would - but even he said he wasn't yet anywhere close to being in "golf shape". 36 holes in a cart is not remotely the same thing as 72 holes walking. Especially on a leg that (according to him) at one point actually had a 50-50 chance of being amputated (that was one serious freaking injury). Its almost shocking that he is even playing less than a year after an accident like that.

 

A scorecard on the Tour is 65 or 70 golf shots, but also (on average) a six or seven mile walk. Doesn't seem too athletic, but if you think about it probably half of America couldn't just get up and walk seven miles, let alone seven miles four days in a row. 

 

That's what I took out of this weekend. His swing itself, at times, looked very close to being back to the level he'd need to be seriously competitive again. What is not yet close to being there is the endurance. By the final day of walking a tournament I doubt that leg would support that swing (even though he has clearly adjusted his swing to take pressure off the leg). Right now he'd probably be in a lot of pain if he tried - though I'm sure he is working on this, and can obviously afford the best PT people on the planet. 

 

The interviews this weekend were, to me, possibly more interesting than even the golf. He bluntly said what probably most were thinking. He still thinks he can play PGA tournaments, but thinks his recovery time after them will be much longer. He'll pick the tournaments to play very carefully, and it will only be at most a handful a year. He outright stated that he'll never return to being a full time Tour player. 

 

Personally? I'll take it. I've been golfing for over five decades, and have gotten immense pleasure out of watching him play, watching what he did to the sport itself. Very few, in any sport, are that transformative, that electric. Michael Jordan. Barry Bonds. Wayne Gretzky. Ronaldo. Federer. 

 

Strangely, the fact that he'll only be playing a few tournaments a year will likely massively boost the numbers for the ones he does play. He probably doubled the eyeballs this last weekend. 

 

I'm personally happy he'll still go out now and then. And will watch every time I have a chance to do so. Love him or hate him (as some do), he is simply one of the best that has ever played this game we love.

 

 

 

I bet his "golf fitness" comes back in time, now that he is weight bearing and can progress.

 

I had a similar injury skiing, although not as bad (same fracture, but only 3 pieces to put back together with screws and an IM rod).  Within 12 weeks I was back on my bicycle (still non-weight bearing though); 16 weeks weight bearing, 24 weeks doing group rides, 36 weeks racing again.  I was skiing 12 months later, but it was painful inside of my boot and I was doing mostly rudimentary drills.   It took me a good 2 years though before my strength was back up to 100 equally in both legs and I could again be a competitive Cat 1 bike racer  But you need a lot more leg strength and symmetry to race a bike at the Pro/Cat1 level (stage races of 400-500 miles over 5 days with an average speed between 25-29mph) than you do to walk a golf course 4 days in a row.  Calorie consumption from racing alone is 2800-4500 cal/day; walking a course is usually under 1000.  But, standing on an IM rod may cause a lot of discomfort. It did for me and I had it pulled 9 months later.  

 

Now that he is fully weight bearing and able to walk, I bet he can continue to push himself harder and get that fitness back.  Minus the time it takes to remove the hardware, which is around a 1 month recovery (2 weeks non or light weight bearing).  

 

The human body is flat-out amazing, and as a driven athlete, what he can do (or what I could do) in terms of recovery can't really be measured against the general population, which is pushing themselves 10% as hard to get back to functional.  

[NoFancyUsername.]

14 hours ago, m d g said:

If any other top 50 player is hitting it 310, that's roughly 3 clubs (at least it is for us normies).

 

Tiger would have a tough time if he's hitting 6-irons into greens when everyone else is hitting a 9-iron.

 

He's good...not sure if he's that good.

 

The biggest benefit might be taking bunkers out of play that he'll no longer reach.

Dechambeau is hitting half sand wedges in...is he winning everything???

[RoyalMustang]

5 hours ago, sevenputts said:

He’s not hitting it 280 lol.. He’s producing 170+ mph ball speeds, he’s hitting it around 300 yards. Or more.. 

 

yeah, Morikawa seems to get it done with those low 170s ball speeds.  Tiger may not be as dominant, but can he still win?  Sure

 

That is the cool thing about golf.  more than one way to skin a cat. And if someone has the complete package: length, driving accuracy, iron scoring, short game, and putting all in the top 5, they probably win by 10 strokes, right? 

[kasting333]

15 hours ago, getair23 said:

TW grimacing a few times on the back 9 Sunday was unfortunately very telling where he currently is. If there is anything left in that leg we know he will find it. 
 

If history is due to repeat itself. I’m hoping this generation’s 86 Masters wasn’t in 2019, and still on the horizon. 

He’s also very dramatic

[tacklingdummy]

Tiger won many tournaments and majors just hitting irons off the tee. So if he loses a little distance, I don't think it is a big deal. He still has more shots than any player on tour. 

[Krt22]

26 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

yeah, Morikawa seems to get it done with those low 170s ball speeds.  Tiger may not be as dominant, but can he still win?  Sure

 

That is the cool thing about golf.  more than one way to skin a cat. And if someone has the complete package: length, driving accuracy, iron scoring, short game, and putting all in the top 5, they probably win by 10 strokes, right? 

Not to mention Low 170s isn't any different than what he hitting in 2019, heck at times he was doing 165mph bunts. If he is hitting 174 ball speed with very little leg drive, his back/upper body might have benefited from all the time off.

[kasting333]

Tiger is going to thrive not having to go through the grind of a full tour schedule. 
 

He will come into the majors more prepared than he did in 2018-2020

[bladehunter]

6 hours ago, Christosterone said:

2006 Hoylake was the greatest week of ball striking planet earth has ever seen….imho

 

-chris

Yep.  And 00 pebble at the open was second. 

[m d g]

4 hours ago, NoFancyUsername. said:

Dechambeau is hitting half sand wedges in...is he winning everything???

Can't really compare as his single-length irons have odd lofts...

 

But I would bet money that Justin Thomas, Rahm, etc. would destroy Tiger if they were hitting 9 irons to Tigers 6 irons.

 

That was my original point...

[Titleist99]

I think that I'd take tiger coming into the green with a  7 iron than any pro on tour with a 9 iron or wedge...... most of those guys don't have an arm swing and tremble on Sunday coming down the back nine.

[Duct Tape]

6 hours ago, Santiago Golf said:

 

Tiger hinted at playing in the Open next year at the Old Course

 

Honestly his best chance considering its a flat course & power isn't needed

 

 

Tiger knows what his body can do & listening to the doctors 

 

He said when he came back to playing tournament golf after the DUI

that he had no real expectations 

 

Its the same situation right now, he has no expectations and knows 

that this isn't about beating the world week in week

This is about being able to walk again

In my mind it’s a given he’ll be playing at St Andrew’s this summer. Six months is a long time for more rehab and conditioning. Whether he plays at hilly Augusta in April is maybe a little more touch and go, but I’m betting we’ll see him there too. 

[m d g]

4 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

I think that I'd take tiger coming into the green with a  7 iron than any pro on tour with a 9 iron or wedge...... most of those guys don't have an arm swing and tremble on Sunday coming down the back nine.

Yeah...PGA tour players are well known to be a bunch of chokers with the short irons.

 

Your daily reminder that Tiger is not an actual god, and should not be worshipped as such.

[Titleist99]

3 minutes ago, m d g said:

Yeah...PGA tour players are well known to be a bunch of chokers with the short irons.

 

Your daily reminder that Tiger is not an actual god, and should not be worshipped as such.

LOL!........I'll keep that in mind.

[bscinstnct]

20 minutes ago, m d g said:

Yeah...PGA tour players are well known to be a bunch of chokers with the short irons.

 

Your daily reminder that Tiger is not an actual god, and should not be worshipped as such.

 

You sent me on a goose chase but here’s what I got!

 

I couldn’t find the 2019 masters driving distance stats but in 2021 JT averaged 318 yards off the tee at Augusta.

 

In 2019, Tiger was 44th in driving distance at Augusta. (He led the field in 1997)

 

In 2021, the 44th ranked player in driving distance at Augusta (Matt Jones) averaged 294 yards 

 

So! It’s reasonable that in 2019, JT (or other top ranked players) were out driving TW by 25 yards.

 

That’s more than 2 full clubs. 
 

But he beat them all. 
 

Can I get an Aaaaa-men!

 

; )

 

https://www.masters.com/en_US/scores/stats/drives_avg.html

 

https://golf.com/gear/irons/tiger-woods-irons-masters-2019/?amp=1

 

That 2nd piece is cool, shows the difference in clubs TW was hitting in 2019 vs 1997
 

 

Edited December 22, 2021 by bscinstnct

[mosesgolf]

I saw Tiger hit a drive with 169 ball speed over the weekend so mid 170s is likely nearby.   Tiger is still one of the best if not the best iron player and putter even now.  So yes he can win and he won in 2019 with mid/low 170 ball speeds off of driver.

 

The thing holding him back will be his ability to walk 72 holes but just like Ben Hogan Tiger will tough it out.  He will find a way and we saw what he did at Torrey Pines in 2008 with a gimp knee.

[2bGood]

On 12/20/2021 at 1:20 PM, jdowning111 said:

After watching yesterday's clinic, made me remember something that Butch Harmon said about Tiger.  "He only needs 280 off the tee and he can beat everybody with his iron game."  Have to say maybe he was onto something, I mean did Tiger even miss an iron shot yesterday?  Yes it was best ball but think about it...paired with his son who's 12 they shot a 57 and he's no where near 100%?!?  

 

He was throwing darts - but had an actual dart board to work with. The course set up was as friendly as you are going to get as they wanted to see a birdie festival. This was a great welcome back event  but even Tiger was very clear to point out that this was not PGA tour level golf and he was no where near ready for the real deal yet.

 

 

[Gary Gutful]

11 hours ago, sevenputts said:

He’s not hitting it 280 lol.. He’s producing 170+ mph ball speeds, he’s hitting it around 300 yards. Or more.. 

Exactly. Length won’t be a factor at all.

[BombinJim]

9 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

That 2nd piece is cool, shows the difference in clubs TW was hitting in 2019 vs 1997

Very cool thanks for sharing. And we wonder why most amateur golfers try and nuke their PW all the time. Just trying to hit it as far as 97’ Tiger.

[Naptime]

18 hours ago, Krt22 said:

The golfwrx orthopedic surgeons said he would never walk again, one mis-step at a tournament and the leg might come right off!

 

Actually the orthopedic surgeons opined on the severity of his injuries and the risks he faced.  I don't recall any saying he would not walk again.  More like he will be lucky to walk again normally if he gets through all his injuries.  Tiger admits as much in his interviews, and walks with an obvious limp even over short distances.  

Edited December 22, 2021 by Naptime