Driver shaft length vs smash and ballspeed.

[bladehunter]

I quickly searched and saw nothing.  So if there’s a thread. Link me. But don’t shoot me. Lol. 
 

 

here goes.  My question is in regards to fitting .  
 

here’s the scenario.  You have two identical shafts, identical grips etc , Same driver head.  Adding lead  tape for the shorter shaft.   One shaft makes the driver play 45.5 inches.  One plays at 44 inches.  
 

with the longer shaft , I produce on average 5 mph more swing speed , but smash factor is erratic.  Best of 1.45.  Average 1.41. I’m making a 2square inch strike pattern in the middle of the head.  Now. I can slow that down by 4 mph by simply making a 3/4 feel swing.  This will up smash to average of 1.45 and ballspeed comes up on average with the 1.45 and above smash 3/4 mph.  
 

 With the shorter shaft  ….I’m producing right at 4/5 mph less swing speed while swinging what I’d call hard. Or full.  But.  I just hit a 20 ball bucket , and averaged 1.48 smash and several. 1.50 balls … of course ballspeed is up to where the faster  swings with the longer shaft and bad smash are. 
 

Confusing . I know.  
 

so the  gist is that I can make perfect contact/ efficiency with the 44 inch shaft , which produces identical numbers to the long shaft on hard swings.      
 

if you were fitting someone , would you advise the shorter shaft , in favor of better contact or the longer shaft , focusing on improving smash?  
 

the answer almost seems easy.  The shorter shaft. Right ?   Until you then consider than a strong 3 wood will give me similar carry and total as the shorter shaft driver.  
 

so then does it become “ find a shorter fairway wood “ or “ find a longer driver “.  
 

i always seem to do this. Find a great fairway wood that ends up kicking driver around.   , then  Build a really accurate driver.  Or a really long driver.  Never can find the in between. 

Edited December 23, 2021 by bladehunter

[jvincent]

Smash factor is largely irrelevant as a fitting parameter because it requires two measurements and is subject to error multiplication.

 

Ballspeed is really the best indicator of good contact. As an added bonus it's the easiest thing to measure so it's going to be pretty accurate.

 

Pick the setup that has the best average ball speed unless you are building a long drive club that you want the occasional freaky long one.

[Stuart_G]

52 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

if you were fitting someone , would you advise the shorter shaft , in favor of better contact or the longer shaft , focusing on improving smash?  

 

 

It's about more than just distance.  Low smash generally also means higher dispersion since more horizontal gear effect (and not consistent either) and probably less consistent path and face-to-path numbers.

 

 

52 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

the answer almost seems easy.  The shorter shaft. Right ?   Until you then consider than a strong 3 wood will give me similar carry and total as the shorter shaft driver.  
 

 

1) The ideal is to find the longest length you can still maintain that good smash factor - not just randomly compare two different lengths that are 1-1/2" different in playing length

 

2) If you are not gaining any distance with a 44" driver over a 43" 3wd - then I'd question how optimal the driver numbers are for launch/spin.

 

 

 

 

[scooterhd2]

Dont worry about smash. Look at ball speed, distance, dispersion and then it depends on your preferences off the tee.

 

If you want driver to be your go to, I'd consider playing it shorter and having more control. And maybe going to a 4W/7W setup.

 

If you are fine blasting the TM 300 off the tee on most holes, and assuming the longer shaft is giving you loads more distance, then consider the longer driver and use it sparingly on holes that are wide open. 

Edited December 23, 2021 by scooterhd2

[bladehunter]

Thanks guys for the replies.   Of course about the time I post this. The wife calls with a quick “ run to town “ honey do list.  So off I go.  I have one more variable or scenario  I’ll add when I get back.  So to be continued.  I appreciate the interest.  I’ll be back in a little while.  

[bladehunter]

3 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

It's about more than just distance.  Low smash generally also means higher dispersion since more horizontal gear effect (and not consistent either) and probably less consistent path and face-to-path numbers.

 

 

 

1) The ideal is to find the longest length you can still maintain that good smash factor - not just randomly compare two different lengths that are 1-1/2" different in playing length

 

2) If you are not gaining any distance with a 44" driver over a 43" 3wd - then I'd question how optimal the driver numbers are for launch/spin.

 

 

 

 

Ok. I’m back.   
 

i figured out some of it before I left.   
 

the other variable I mentioned is this. If I put the 300 mini on the longer driver shaft , I gain a pretty regular and immediate 4mph swing speed.   And ballspeed pretty much goes up same.  Again. Same shaft.  Just the smaller head.  Well.  It clicked in my head that weight was likely the issue.   So I weighed the driver head and the mini head and found the mini to be 7g heavier.  
 

Is it normal to pickup speed with more weight ?    
 

Anyway.  So before I left I went back in the shop and added 5G hotmelt to the driver head.  Left it till I got back.  Then I went out back to test it.  Well. I picked up 4 mph swing speed immediately and after a few balls to get warmed back up I eventually saw 163 ballspeed.  Which is a pickup of 5 mph ballspeed over earlier today.      
 

said that to say this.  My issue was figuring out why the longer shaft wasn’t longer.  Or faster.  Seems that headweight. Or swingweight as that issue.  So I think I’m on the right track. But I’m not convinced that it’s maxed out.  I may put 2 g lead on it tommorow and test.  It doesn’t feel super heavy now.  Reason I say that , the heavier it got. The more middle I hit it.  So it’s not as much chasing speed as it is chasing accuracy.  Speed being the happy coincidence.  
 

At least this gets it out ahead of the 300 mini at 43 inches. 

[bladehunter]

4 hours ago, jvincent said:

Smash factor is largely irrelevant as a fitting parameter because it requires two measurements and is subject to error multiplication.

 

Ballspeed is really the best indicator of good contact. As an added bonus it's the easiest thing to measure so it's going to be pretty accurate.

 

Pick the setup that has the best average ball speed unless you are building a long drive club that you want the occasional freaky long one.

Makes sense.  I had been paying attention to ballspeed.  It just was mostly staying within spec of the smash.   But I agree. Ballspeed makes most sense.    I just knew it was low low for me.  And was trying to figure out why.  
 

im tall and upright so the 45.5 length doesn’t feel super long to me.  And I’m prone to choking down a hair sometimes anyway.  I believe adding weight has got me on the right track.  Never ceases to amaze me at how hard it is to find a driver I like.   My last one cracked a couple weeks ago, and even with the same shaft , it’s not an automatic thing to just pick one that works.  

[ARL67]

The Mini head would be heavier as it is meant to be attached to a shorter shaft.

 

I'm a longtime Titleist woods guy and always buy extra weights for my Driver, FW, Hybrids.  You never know what combo of head-weight, shaft, shaft length, and grip yields the magic combo.

 

 

[Stuart_G]

55 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Is it normal to pickup speed with more weight ?    

 

It's not uncommon at all to pick up speed when the head weight is the right fit - as well as to loose it if it's either too light or too heavy.   But like everything else, everyone is going to be different in what they see.

 

 

55 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

said that to say this.  My issue was figuring out why the longer shaft wasn’t longer.  Or faster.  Seems that headweight. Or swingweight as that issue.

 

Weight (shaft and head) have to be fit correctly for the length to get the most out of it.  But even with the best weighting, everyone is going to have a limit for length for which they will struggle and performance will drop noticeably.

 

 

[Howard_Jones]

17 hours ago, scooterhd2 said:

Dont worry about smash. Look at ball speed, distance, dispersion and then it depends on your preferences off the tee.

 

Smash factor is whats telling if the player has a potential for more ball speed or not, so ignoring it is lack of knowledge for what smash factor is used for

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, Howard_Jones said:

Smash factor is whats telling if the player has a potential for more ball speed or not, so ignoring it is lack of knowledge for what smash factor is used for

Yep. That’s why it caught my eye. When the smash was low and I just couldn’t get it to get better.  I noticed then but didn’t say that ballspeed was also low , for me.  

[scooterhd2]

3 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

Smash factor is whats telling if the player has a potential for more ball speed or not, so ignoring it is lack of knowledge for what smash factor is used for

 

Understood. And I don't mean to imply that it should be completely ignored as a fitting tool. But on the first tee box, I want the more accurate driver with more ball speed. Not one that I am hitting poorly but has more potential. 

[Howard_Jones]

12 minutes ago, scooterhd2 said:

 

Understood. And I don't mean to imply that it should be completely ignored as a fitting tool. But on the first tee box, I want the more accurate driver with more ball speed. Not one that I am hitting poorly but has more potential. 

You dont get the point at all.

Lets say you have a club speed measured by a Trackman to 100
If your smash factor is 1.45, your ball speed is 145, but your potential is about 152

If you dont know your PTR value, you dont know your potential....AND dispersion will not be as good as it can be since PTR is related to impact vs COG

So, if you want accuracy, optimize your smash factor, and you get both more ball speed and better dispersion.

[scooterhd2]

4 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

You dont get the point at all.

Lets say you have a club speed measured by a Trackman to 100
If your smash factor is 1.45, your ball speed is 145, but your potential is about 152

If you dont know your PTR value, you dont know your potential....AND dispersion will not be as good as it can be since PTR is related to impact vs COG

So, if you want accuracy, optimize your smash factor, and you get both more ball speed and better dispersion.

 

Eh. I've said to i want to maximize ball speed and dispersion when I have a driver on the tee box. You want to maximize smash in order to.... optimize ball speed and dispersion. 

 

And you are ignoring OP is talking about two different club heads, which could easily be measuring club head speed and smash differently.  And a 43.5 inch driver with 1.5 smash may not perform as well as a 45.5 driver with 1.48. You are only judging smash to pick your gamer? I want to know distance, ball speed, dispersion. 

[Valtiel]

2 hours ago, scooterhd2 said:

 

Eh. I've said to i want to maximize ball speed and dispersion when I have a driver on the tee box. You want to maximize smash in order to.... optimize ball speed and dispersion. 

 

And you are ignoring OP is talking about two different club heads, which could easily be measuring club head speed and smash differently.  And a 43.5 inch driver with 1.5 smash may not perform as well as a 45.5 driver with 1.48. You are only judging smash to pick your gamer? I want to know distance, ball speed, dispersion. 

I think you're arguing around each other here. Howard is advocating for the relationship between smash factor and dispersion because lower quality strikes not only result in lower smash factor, but also wider dispersion on average due to the inevitable curvature those mishits produce. Focusing on and optimizing average smash factor then takes care of mishit related dispersion. The more accurate driver with more ball speed that you want therefore IS the one with solid smash factor numbers, because it wouldn't be either of those things if it wasn't. Without smash factor, you don't know what your max ball speed is/should be, so saying "don't worry about it" is removing one of the data points you need for said maximization. 

[mukster]

My driver plays to 45 inches. I have an Epic Flash Subzero and I have 3 different shafts, all cut down to give me 45 inches total to my driver. I replaced the 2 gram weight with a 6 gram weight.  
I am quite happy with that setup and the shorter driver has improved my driving, with no appreciable loss in distance. 
The experimenting has been great fun. Might buy a few more weights and play around. 

[bladehunter]

I’m still hunting and pecking so to speak.  
 

have a test setup for later or the wind dies down.   
 

 

sim max 2 at 9 degrees with a addi 7x playing at 44 inches.  
 

300 mini at 13.5 degrees with a tensei blue 80TX.  Playing 43 inches.  
 

if I swap shafts one to another , there near identical lengths.  Less than 1/4 inch difference.     Anybody want to guess  what I get best numbers from ?  
 

I already know that the 300 mini combo is maximized to the hilt.  It’s a dead perfect fit.  I can get high smash , big ballspeed and carry ( for that loft ) with it.  And it’s incredibly accurate.   Just can’t hit it crooked. Which is also indicative of a great strike with a square face.      The question is why ?  
 

my want , or the goal is a driver that does the same.  Or , to conclude that the 300 mini turned down to 11.5 loft will be played AS driver.  I hit it just as good in low loft setting with a tight draw and lower penetrating flight.   The club is so good $800 right now won’t buy it.  Think about how automatic that must be.  Anyway.  - 

 

the goal is driver fitment.  I’ve arrived at 44 inches as the place where I hit driver dead straight time  and time again.  But.  Smash factor and ballspeed are just not coming up.  Although clubhead speed for a cold morning today was on par at 112-115.   Loosing some for the shorter shaft.  But not much.   It’s is 30 degrees here.  Lol.   Contact is higher on the toe side.  With some thin misses as well.  I’m thinking adding headweight as an experiment, and or the heavier shaft from the 300 mini. Since they share an adapter.  

[Cwebb]

5 hours ago, bladehunter said:

I’m still hunting and pecking so to speak.  
 

have a test setup for later or the wind dies down.   
 

 

sim max 2 at 9 degrees with a addi 7x playing at 44 inches.  
 

300 mini at 13.5 degrees with a tensei blue 80TX.  Playing 43 inches.  
 

if I swap shafts one to another , there near identical lengths.  Less than 1/4 inch difference.     Anybody want to guess  what I get best numbers from ?  
 

I already know that the 300 mini combo is maximized to the hilt.  It’s a dead perfect fit.  I can get high smash , big ballspeed and carry ( for that loft ) with it.  And it’s incredibly accurate.   Just can’t hit it crooked. Which is also indicative of a great strike with a square face.      The question is why ?  
 

my want , or the goal is a driver that does the same.  Or , to conclude that the 300 mini turned down to 11.5 loft will be played AS driver.  I hit it just as good in low loft setting with a tight draw and lower penetrating flight.   The club is so good $800 right now won’t buy it.  Think about how automatic that must be.  Anyway.  - 

 

the goal is driver fitment.  I’ve arrived at 44 inches as the place where I hit driver dead straight time  and time again.  But.  Smash factor and ballspeed are just not coming up.  Although clubhead speed for a cold morning today was on par at 112-115.   Loosing some for the shorter shaft.  But not much.   It’s is 30 degrees here.  Lol.   Contact is higher on the toe side.  With some thin misses as well.  I’m thinking adding headweight as an experiment, and or the heavier shaft from the 300 mini. Since they share an adapter.  

 

You've posted about 45.5 and 44".  What about 44.5 or 44.75" or even 45".  Maybe your ideal fit is somewhere in the middle of what you've been testing

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, Cwebb said:

 

You've posted about 45.5 and 44".  What about 44.5 or 44.75" or even 45".  Maybe your ideal fit is somewhere in the middle of what you've been testing

Yep.  I’m going  to have to get a few shafts so I can see. But I just am discouraged after today .  I have to figure out why I show good impact positions and yet smash stays so low. Good meaning relatively centered up.  Favoring high on the face , and toeside. 
 

i swapped the addi into the 300 mini and actually picked up a solid 2 mph in ballspeed. Repeated it 7/8 times.   Lol.  So instead of beating it with any driver combo.  I made it faster. Launched higher and carried a good bit farther.  
 

but driver.  For the life of me I can’t get smash up above 1.42 with the shorter shaft.    And that’s a rarity.  Averaging 1.40 , yet swing speed is actually holding steady and dispersion is amazingly straight.     At 45.5 I could  get an occasional 1.48-1.50 reading.  And averaged 1.46.   But yet the dispersion is just not trustworthy.  The high right block is a round killer.    So I don’t know.   It’s the one spot I’ve never had a club in that I trusted.  Never Truly ever loved a driver.  And I desperately want to.  And as dumb as it sounds. I think it’s fitment.  I mean I’m putting up 114mph and 158ish ballspeed with a 2 wood teed barely off the deck.  So my swing isn’t all bad.     It just bugs the crap out of me to settle for that when I know that a driver Should be faster and easier to hit.  The more lob wedges I get in my hand the lower I’ll go. I’ve proven that on short courses.  
 

one thing I always complain about is how light modern driver heads feel. I wonder if that’s a huge part of me hating them ?  
 

I just don’t have anywhere to go locally for help.  Two reasons.  Finding a place that can handle 115-120 is hard.  And Its impossible to find a place to be fit outdoors with no net.  Heck outdoors onto a net is rare.  I’m a person that cannot hit into a net. And absolutely won’t hit indoors.  I feel claustrophobic.   I lose my swing in minutes if I can’t see the flight.    
 

At home Im on a farm and have a field to hit into , where I can see the flight , and mark and laser balls I hit back to the tee to verify distances.  So I know I’m getting accurate readings.    I’m hitting this short driver so bad that I can almost put a 3 hybrid by it.  So I’m doing the best I can , and using the method that’s fit my entire bag of perfect matches.  One to go , and It’s the hardest one.  
 

i guess next is to go to 44.75 and add headweight and test.  I don’t know what else to do.  

Edited January 11, 2022 by bladehunter

[RCGA]

Same problem. 

 

45.5" driver

• 300-310y club (SS 118-121, BS 173-ish)
• 3/10 are nuked, 4/10 are trash, 3/10 are okay but short (thin, toe)

43.5" mini driver

• 290-295y club (SS 115-118, BS 168-ish)
• 6/10 are nuked, 1/10 are trash, 3/10 are okay but short (thin, toe)

I hate automatically giving up 15 yards, especially on wide open par 5s. Can't hit a 3 wood any better than my mini. 

[Cwebb]

26 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Yep.  I’m going  to have to get a few shafts so I can see. But I just am discouraged after today .  I have to figure out why I show good impact positions and yet smash stays so low. Good meaning relatively centered up.  Favoring high on the face , and toeside. 
 

i swapped the addi into the 300 mini and actually picked up a solid 2 mph in ballspeed. Repeated it 7/8 times.   Lol.  So instead of beating it with any driver combo.  I made it faster. Launched higher and carried a good bit farther.  
 

but driver.  For the life of me I can’t get smash up above 1.42 with the shorter shaft.    And that’s a rarity.  Averaging 1.40 , yet swing speed is actually holding steady and dispersion is amazingly straight.     At 45.5 I could  get an occasional 1.48-1.50 reading.  And averaged 1.46.   But yet the dispersion is just not trustworthy.  The high right block is a round killer.    So I don’t know.   It’s the one spot I’ve never had a club in that I trusted.  Never Truly ever loved a driver.  And I desperately want to.  And as dumb as it sounds. I think it’s fitment.  I mean I’m putting up 114mph and 158ish ballspeed with a 2 wood teed barely off the deck.  So my swing isn’t all bad.     It just bugs the crap out of me to settle for that when I know that a driver Should be faster and easier to hit.  The more lob wedges I get in my hand the lower I’ll go. I’ve proven that on short courses.  
 

one thing I always complain about is how light modern driver heads feel. I wonder if that’s a huge part of me hating them ?  
 

I just don’t have anywhere to go locally for help.  Two reasons.  Finding a place that can handle 115-120 is hard.  And Its impossible to find a place to be fit outdoors with no net.  Heck outdoors onto a net is rare.  I’m a person that cannot hit into a net. And absolutely won’t hit indoors.  I feel claustrophobic.   I lose my swing in minutes if I can’t see the flight.    
 

At home Im on a farm and have a field to hit into , where I can see the flight , and mark and laser balls I hit back to the tee to verify distances.  So I know I’m getting accurate readings.    I’m hitting this short driver so bad that I can almost put a 3 hybrid by it.  So I’m doing the best I can , and using the method that’s fit my entire bag of perfect matches.  One to go , and It’s the hardest one.  
 

i guess next is to go to 44.75 and add headweight and test.  I don’t know what else to do.  

 

The face of the Mini is designed to be just as "hot" as a bigger driver head, in terms of CT/COR.  If your launch and spin with it are in a driver like zone, then you've likely got a smaller head driver...not even a "2 wood".  The head is much bigger than just a larger fairway wood.

 

Do you know that the shaft that you're testing at 44" in a driver, is a good fit in terms of it's bend profile and how it's been tipped or not tipped?

 

Somewhere between 44.5-45" is likely your optimal length with a full sized driver head

[bladehunter]

4 minutes ago, Cwebb said:

 

The face of the Mini is designed to be just as "hot" as a bigger driver head, in terms of CT/COR.  If your launch and spin with it are in a driver like zone, then you've likely got a smaller head driver...not even a "2 wood".  The head is much bigger than just a larger fairway wood.

 

Do you know that the shaft that you're testing at 44" in a driver, is a good fit in terms of it's bend profile and how it's been tipped or not tipped?

 

Somewhere between 44.5-45" is likely your optimal length with a full sized driver head

No clue what a good fit as far as tipping is.  I’ve always tipped less as I prefer a lively feel. The addi is a 7x that I’ve had in several “ strong 3 woods “ aka 2 woods.  And was of enough length to make a 44 inch driver. As I recall it’s tipped 1/2 inch.  I bought that shaft new in 2016 or so.  I could measure to graphics to confirm.    
 

the TB 70 TX is the 45.5 combo shaft.  It’s untipped.  If I shorten it , I’d cut 1/2 from the tip .  I bought that shaft new whne it came out. 

[bladehunter]

30 minutes ago, RCGA said:

Same problem. 

 

45.5" driver

• 300-310y club (SS 118-121, BS 173-ish)
• 3/10 are nuked, 4/10 are trash, 3/10 are okay but short (thin, toe)

43.5" mini driver

• 290-295y club (SS 115-118, BS 168-ish)
• 6/10 are nuked, 1/10 are trash, 3/10 are okay but short (thin, toe)

I hate automatically giving up 15 yards, especially on wide open par 5s. Can't hit a 3 wood any better than my mini. 

Thanks.  I feel crazy.  If that makes sense?   I’m this close to just saying screw it and dropping driver. but who does that ?  It’s very hard for me to convince myself that driver is actually costing me shots , but I know that it is.  
 

the other crazy part.  Part of me knows that The only way to settle my mind is sell the mini.  And that’s absolute lunacy as good as I hit it. This would take pressure off driver.  Do you follow any of that crazy talk? 

[Cwebb]

5 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

No clue what a good fit as far as tipping is.  I’ve always tipped less as I prefer a lively feel. The addi is a 7x that I’ve had in several “ strong 3 woods “ aka 2 woods.  And was of enough length to make a 44 inch driver. As I recall it’s tipped 1/2 inch.  I bought that shaft new in 2016 or so.  I could measure to graphics to confirm.    
 

the TB 70 TX is the 45.5 combo shaft.  It’s untipped.  If I shorten it , I’d cut 1/2 from the tip .  I bought that shaft new whne it came out. 

 

I'll bet that your dynamic loft with the Mini is comparable to what you produce with a bigger driver head, despite the static loft differences.  The smaller head has a more forward COG and it has a shallower face with less area above center to produce the higher launch.

 

A deep faced driver that is measured for an actual loft of lets say 9* in the middle of the face, has 1-2* more loft when we strike it on the "hot spot" above center,....because of the roll radius on the face.

 

Point being, it's possible that the only thing really there for you to gain, is the extra club head speed with a longer length.

 

 

[Cwebb]

3 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Thanks.  I feel crazy.  If that makes sense?   I’m this close to just saying screw it and dropping driver. but who does that ?  It’s very hard for me to convince myself that driver is actually costing me shots , but I know that it is.  
 

the other crazy part.  Part of me knows that The only way to settle my mind is sell the mini.  And that’s absolute lunacy as good as I hit it. This would take pressure off driver.  Do you follow any of that crazy talk? 

 

That is crazy.  Don't do that.  Don't ever let go of a club that is as perfect as you're describing this club

[bladehunter]

2 minutes ago, Cwebb said:

 

That is crazy.  Don't do that.  Don't ever let go of a club that is as perfect as you're describing this club

Thanks.  I wanted someone to say that. Lol. I’m not.  It’s just too automatic.  

[Cwebb]

1 minute ago, bladehunter said:

Thanks.  I wanted someone to say that. Lol. I’m not.  It’s just too automatic.  

 

I wouldn't put another tee club in my bag, until I could prove that it beats that one for TOTAL driving. 

[bladehunter]

10 minutes ago, Cwebb said:

 

I'll bet that your dynamic loft with the Mini is comparable to what you produce with a bigger driver head, despite the static loft differences.  The smaller head has a more forward COG and it has a shallower face with less area above center to produce the higher launch.

 

A deep faced driver that is measured for an actual loft of lets say 9* in the middle of the face, has 1-2* more loft when we strike it on the "hot spot" above center,....because of the roll radius on the face.

 

Point being, it's possible that the only thing really there for you to gain, is the extra club head speed with a longer length.

 

 

That is some info that makes sense. I consistently strike it high. WitH a level to -2 aoa.    I work to try to “ pick it “ off a tee which means a middle strike and usually zeroed out.  .  Which I do at times. But it’s maybe 50/50.  Most strikes are above center slightly.  
 

 

I’ve wondered about Vcog and drivers.  I am aware that I like a low Vcog in irons.  Require it.  How does that work with a driver? And are there any stats for different heads out there ?  As in can I find a big driver with same or similar Vcog as the 300 mini ? 

Edited January 11, 2022 by bladehunter

[Rbsiedsc]

Also remember your Mini you likely don’t tee high. What about your driver? Have you tried lower tee height to try and keep the same AOA? Maybe your club head is slowing down by the time you hit with your driver vs the mini still accelerating? Just some odd thoughts on my end. According to my PRGR I am getting smash higher playing shorter due to increased ball speed from center to slightly higher contact. 

[bladehunter]

7 minutes ago, Rbsiedsc said:

Also remember your Mini you likely don’t tee high. What about your driver? Have you tried lower tee height to try and keep the same AOA? Maybe your club head is slowing down by the time you hit with your driver vs the mini still accelerating? Just some odd thoughts on my end. According to my PRGR I am getting smash higher playing shorter due to increased ball speed from center to slightly higher contact. 

I did.  And actually took a tiny divot.  Lol. Then Teed it to where the ball peeked above the crown slightly and is better , but yes. Absolutely feels as if it is slower.  The mini just feels fast. Everything about it feels fast.  
 

I think another variable is ball position.  I play it much farther back  , almost middle with the mini. And I hit it dead straight.  Driver is off my left heel