Phil wins the PIP money......

[oikos1]

No way a crippled Tiger is going to sit idly by while Phil makes $300 mil on another Tour. 

[Holy Moses]

15 minutes ago, oikos1 said:

No way a crippled Tiger is going to sit idly by while Phil makes $300 mil on another Tour. 

What are you saying? You think Tiger wants to travel the world playing 18 times a year at this stage in his career and at this stage of his body?

[bscinstnct]

30 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

What are you saying? You think Tiger wants to travel the world playing 18 times a year at this stage in his career and at this stage of his body?

 

But Phil would?! 
 

; )

 

Im thinking Phil is the last guy the PGL wants.

 

Hes totally unmanageable, shoots his mouth off complaining about everything the tour does. 
 

Phil not exactly a “company man” 🤣

 

None of these guys are for that matter. 

 

 

[Holy Moses]

3 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

But Phil would?! 
 

; )

 

Im thinking Phil is the last guy the PGL wants.

 

Hes totally unmanageable, shoots his mouth off complaining about everything the tour does. 
 

Phil not exactly a “company man” 🤣

 

None of these guys are for that matter. 

 

 

Phil is in great shape for his age. Tiger literally can’t play in 18 tournaments. Phil can.
 

They aren’t worried about Phil not being a company man. They need well-known players and the PIP proves that Phil still brings an audience. 

Edited January 6, 2022 by Holy Moses

[oikos1]

38 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

What are you saying? You think Tiger wants to travel the world playing 18 times a year at this stage in his career and at this stage of his body?

Tiger wouldn't have to do that.  His name, his blessing alone, is worth the $100 of millions.  That's why the PGA Tour is desperately trying to keep him happy.

[Holy Moses]

3 minutes ago, oikos1 said:

Tiger wouldn't have to do that.  His name, his blessing alone, is worth the $100 of millions.  That's why the PGA Tour is desperately trying to keep him happy.

The SGL would pay Tiger for his blessing? 

[bscinstnct]

14 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

Phil is in great shape for his age. Tiger literally can’t play in 18 tournaments. Phil can.
 

They aren’t worried about Phil not being a company man. They need well-known players and the PIP proves that Phil still brings an audience. 

 

Phil is astute enough to see that, barring a guaranteed billion dollars, the risk to him too great given he will make 400MM + over the next 10 years staying put and without risking

 

Getting a ban from the tour

 

Being a total moron if this PGL thing folds and crawling back to the tour to beg

Flying around all over the place being told where and when to play

 

Think about it

 

If you were Phil, what would your “ask” be to join the PGL?

 

500MM minimum and more like a billion. 

 

 

Edited January 6, 2022 by bscinstnct

[Holy Moses]

If Phil plays 10 years on the SGL, he’ll get that $500 million. The players that have expressed interest in the SGL care only about money, gobs of it. They don’t care as much about creating their own schedule or possibly losing out on majors or the Saudi ties to the SGL or getting booted from the PGA Tour. Pay me $50 mil a year and I’m yours. 

[bscinstnct]

11 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

If Phil plays 10 years on the SGL, he’ll get that $500 million. The players that have expressed interest in the SGL care only about money, gobs of it. They don’t care as much about creating their own schedule or possibly losing out on majors or the Saudi ties to the SGL or getting booted from the PGA Tour. Pay me $50 mil a year and I’m yours. 

 

All good HM.

 

We just widely disagree on how the best players will assess this and what combination of factors works best for them.

 

Add the resources at pga tours disposal to incentivize the best plays to stay, and to discourage them from leaving, 

 

And I don’t think we will see any of the top 10 players (or Phil) teeing it up on the PGL is 2023.

 

I would be surprised if there is a PGL in 2023. 

 

 

[Holy Moses]

12 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

All good HM.

 

We just widely disagree on how the best players will assess this and what combination of factors works best for them.

 

Add the resources at pga tours disposal to incentivize the best plays to stay, and to discourage them from leaving, 

 

And I don’t think we will see any of the top 10 players (or Phil) teeing it up on the PGL is 2023.

 

I would be surprised if there is a PGL in 2023. 

 

 

I would prefer that too, but the Tour could still implement some of the PGL and SGL’s ideas

[Greg_B]

My opinion on this remains that it is a sickening waste of money that the Tour does not need to continue in this form. Having Woods finish #2 for nearly killing himself and potentially others is a very bad look. Take the $40 million, announce a program to provide hot meals or housing to those in need in the name of the players, and put the money to good use.

[ChillyDipper]

11 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Phil is astute enough to see that, barring a guaranteed billion dollars, the risk to him too great given he will make 400MM + over the next 10 years staying put and without risking

 

Getting a ban from the tour

 

Being a total moron if this PGL thing folds and crawling back to the tour to beg

Flying around all over the place being told where and when to play

 

Think about it

 

If you were Phil, what would your “ask” be to join the PGL?

 

500MM minimum and more like a billion. 

 

 

 

 

I think you have been using the terms PGL and SGL interchangeably, but please note they are not at all the same things.  The SGL is the Saudi one, and is more likely where Phil would end up (gotta love the views of the Red Sea).  To answer your question, if I were Phil what would my ask be to join the SGL? Well, I'd ask for an equivalent amount of money+ to what I'd expect to earn in the rest of my career, then I'd ask for legal representation to sue the PGA Tour into oblivion to keep my pension, avoid being banned, and keep my ability to play the Majors in tact.

[bscinstnct]

12 minutes ago, ChillyDipper said:

 

 

I think you have been using the terms PGL and SGL interchangeably, but please note they are not at all the same things.  The SGL is the Saudi one, and is more likely where Phil would end up (gotta love the views of the Red Sea).  To answer your question, if I were Phil what would my ask be to join the SGL? Well, I'd ask for an equivalent amount of money+ to what I'd expect to earn in the rest of my career, then I'd ask for legal representation to sue the PGA Tour into oblivion to keep my pension, avoid being banned, and keep my ability to play the Majors in tact.

 

Equivalent?

 

Given the nascent nature of the SGL, and what Phil is waking away from, he’d ask for 

 

3x what he’s expecting to earn including his endorsements.

 

He makes 40MM a year. That’s 400MM in 10 years.

 

X3, that’s 1.2 Billion. Yes, wire to my account in Geneva please.

 

Oh. And yes, legal fees to sue the tour I have spent my life on. Add another 50MM cause the pga tour has resources and lawyers of their own.

 

$1.25 Billion

 

The Saudi’s pump cash out of the ground so shouldn’t be an issue ; )

[oikos1]

7 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Equivalent?

 

Given the nascent nature of the SGL, and what Phil is waking away from, he’d ask for 

 

3x what he’s expecting to earn including his endorsements.

 

He makes 40MM a year. That’s 400MM in 10 years.

 

X3, that’s 1.2 Billion. Yes, wire to my account in Geneva please.

 

Oh. And yes, legal fees to sue the tour I have spent my life on. Add another 50MM cause the pga tour has resources and lawyers of their own.

 

$1.25 Billion

 

The Saudi’s pump cash out of the ground so shouldn’t be an issue ; )

I'm not exactly sure where you are getting the $40 million a year figure, but if you are including his endorsements, what makes you think he wouldn't be able to maintain, or even generate more endorsement revenue, if he were to join a World Tour?

Edited January 6, 2022 by oikos1

[dlygrisse]

18 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

I think BD and DJ are also ready to jump now. Rose, Stenson, Rickie, and Kokrak are also supposedly interested.

 

Apart from Bryson, these other players are veterans who have already made their money on the PGA Tour and wouldn’t be hurt by a ban. Will the younger stars want to risk a ban or a loss of OWGR points is the question. 

This is interesting.  Alternative leagues have never really worked, the USFL, the WFL, ABA, the AFL had their runs back in the day and while some teams ended up merging, that hasn't happened since the 1970's with the ABA.  The WFL pulled some major players out of the NFL for a few seasons, but they did it to earn some real money.  It is a different world now, the guys on tour make so much money is it worth it to risk the rest of your career or legacy? 

 

In the early days of pro sports players had of have jobs in the off season to pay the bills, now even the bottom tier guys earn a great living.  

 

Maybe they should recruit Anthony Kim.  🙂  

[Holy Moses]

31 minutes ago, ChillyDipper said:

 

 

I think you have been using the terms PGL and SGL interchangeably, but please note they are not at all the same things.  The SGL is the Saudi one, and is more likely where Phil would end up (gotta love the views of the Red Sea).  To answer your question, if I were Phil what would my ask be to join the SGL? Well, I'd ask for an equivalent amount of money+ to what I'd expect to earn in the rest of my career, then I'd ask for legal representation to sue the PGA Tour into oblivion to keep my pension, avoid being banned, and keep my ability to play the Majors in tact.

If you want someone to leave the PGA Tour and be forced into a schedule you can’t control and possibly be banned from the PGA Tour, you are asking for way more than equivalent compensation. That’s why the $50 million a year number is thrown out. 

[ChillyDipper]

2 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

If you want someone to leave the PGA Tour and be forced into a schedule you can’t control and possibly be banned from the PGA Tour, you are asking for way more than equivalent compensation. That’s why the $50 million a year number is thrown out. 

 

 

Maybe I should have said Equivalent+.

[bscinstnct]

2 minutes ago, oikos1 said:

I'm not exactly sure where you are getting the $40 million a year figure, but if you are including his endorsements, what makes you think he wouldn't be able to maintain, or even generate more endorsement revenue, if he were to join a World Tour?

 

 

Why do sponsors pay Phil 400MM?

 

Because, in large part, the PGA Tour has long term, guaranteed contracts with all major media avenues, and sponsors can forecast the exposure to their consumers that Phil will generate.

 

If Phil walks out, I think the sponsors would be will within their rights to demand that whatever new tour he plays on can deliver equivalent exposure in the form of a tournament schedule and tv/media contracts that guarantees broadcast of those tournaments.

 

Without that, why pay him?

[oikos1]

1 minute ago, bscinstnct said:

 

 

Why do sponsors pay Phil 400MM?

 

Because, in large part, the PGA Tour has long term, guaranteed contracts with all major media avenues, and sponsors can forecast the exposure to their consumers that Phil will generate.

 

If Phil walks out, I think the sponsors would be will within their rights to demand that whatever new tour he plays on can deliver equivalent exposure in the form of a tournament schedule and tv/media contracts that guarantees broadcast of those tournaments.

 

Without that, why pay him?

Well that's the point, really.  Why can't there be more fruitful endorsement opportunities with another Tour?  It's a big world out there.

 

I completely understand what you are saying and would fully expect Phil to vet that possibility before he makes any business decisions related to leaving the PGA Tour or his current sponsors.

[oikos1]

11 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

The SGL would pay Tiger for his blessing? 

Lol.  There would be a bit more to it.  More like "Hey Tiger, here is $100 million a year for as long as you hang around, with opportunities for bonuses and new endorsement and revenue sources equaling hundreds of millions more.  All you have to do is join the Tour, or be a "special" executive, hang out a few times a year at select events and help recruit new players to the Tour".

 

Let's not forget, Arnie and Jack left the PGA of America to form what is now known as the PGA Tour and for what...wait for it...$$$$.

 

"The golf breakup occurred largely because of the influx of money that television had started to pump into the game. The top players (Jack Nicklaus and Arnold Palmer among them) wanted to use the additional TV money to pump up the purses."

https://www.pgatour.com/news/2009/02/11/awtrey_column.html

 

This story is as old as time.

[bscinstnct]

5 minutes ago, oikos1 said:

Well that's the point, really.  Why can't there be more fruitful endorsement opportunities with another Tour?  It's a big world out there.

 

I completely understand what you are saying and would fully expect Phil to vet that possibility before he makes any business decisions related to leaving the PGA Tour or his current sponsors.

 

Sure, all the SGL needs to do is put together 18 events with at least 10 out of the top 20 in the world and sell the networks on committing carrying them..for the next 10 years!

 

Hey, it only took the PGA/PGA Tour 90 years to do that but

 

I’m sure the PGL can pull it off in 1 year

 

They pump money out of the ground so…

 

; )

[oikos1]

7 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Sure, all the SGL needs to do is put together 18 events with at least 10 out of the top 20 in the world and sell the networks on committing carrying them..for the next 10 years!

 

Hey, it only took the PGA/PGA Tour 90 years to do that but

 

I’m sure the PGL can pull it off in 1 year

 

They pump money out of the ground so…

 

; )

On a worldwide scale, I'm not so sure how needed the "networks" would be.  The way media and sports are being presented and streamed on the internet today is blowing up like mad.

 

I do keep hearing around here that they have endless money so apparently nothing is impossible. 😁

[Holy Moses]

46 minutes ago, oikos1 said:

Well that's the point, really.  Why can't there be more fruitful endorsement opportunities with another Tour?  It's a big world out there.

 

I completely understand what you are saying and would fully expect Phil to vet that possibility before he makes any business decisions related to leaving the PGA Tour or his current sponsors.

There will be potentially less endorsement opportunities with the SGL which is one reason why the SGL is attempting to overpay players. RBC didn’t let DJ wear their logo on his shirt in Saudi Arabia. I would image that other sponsors might feel the same way or not sign SGL players too. 

[bscinstnct]

21 minutes ago, oikos1 said:

On a worldwide scale, I'm not so sure how needed the "networks" would be.  The way media and sports are being presented and streamed on the internet today is blowing up like mad.

 

I do keep hearing around here that they have endless money so apparently nothing is impossible. 😁

 

So, Phils agent is going to tell his sponsors,

 

Don’t worry, these events will be on the internet. “The internet is blowing up like mad, you know”. So give us $400MM. 

 

Not sure that would make it through the sponsors accounting teams ; )

[oikos1]

45 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

So, Phils agent is going to tell his sponsors,

 

Don’t worry, these events will be on the internet. “The internet is blowing up like mad, you know”. So give us $400MM. 

 

Not sure that would make it through the sponsors accounting teams ; )

Lol.  I don't know.  What I do know is the world is changing rapidly so how we view things today is going to be quite different, maybe not by tomorrow, but sooner than ever before.

 

Who knows, Phil could be hinting that he likes the idea of a World Tour just to gain leverage within his own existing business deals and influence within the PGA Tour.  And Tiger could be saying his loyalties remain with the PGA Tour whilst negotiating back door deals down the road with a World Tour.  One thing is for sure, they both have a "number" that could sway them either way.

[bscinstnct]

2 hours ago, oikos1 said:

Lol.  I don't know.  What I do know is the world is changing rapidly so how we view things today is going to be quite different, maybe not by tomorrow, but sooner than ever before.

 

Who knows, Phil could be hinting that he likes the idea of a World Tour just to gain leverage within his own existing business deals and influence within the PGA Tour.  And Tiger could be saying his loyalties remain with the PGA Tour whilst negotiating back door deals down the road with a World Tour.  One thing is for sure, they both have a "number" that could sway them either way.

 

Lol, Phil look to gain leverage? Yo think 🤔? 🤣

 

I think that the solution will finally be the pga tour and sgl working together.

 

An entire tour consisting of raiding the pga tour is not practical. 
 

But, the pgl certainly has a lot of cash and the players, understandably, want some!

 

So, in the same way the tour is “letting” guys play the Saudi event, the SGL could offer such huge amounts to top players to play in, say, 2-3 events per year, that the players put pressure on the tour to allow it. Or even sanction the event. 
 

This would very possibly come at the expense of some existing pga tour/euro events. 
 

This way, we (the fans) get a few more top field events, the SGL gets some prestige, and the players make more money. 
 

I think if the SGL approaches it this way, the tour may need to concede a bit. 

Edited January 6, 2022 by bscinstnct

[Holy Moses]

10 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Lol, Phil look to gain leverage? Yo think 🤔? 🤣

 

I think that the solution will finally be the pga tour and sgl working together.

 

An entire tour consisting of raiding the pga tour is not practical. 
 

But, the pgl certainly has a lot of cash and the players, understandably, want some!

 

So, in the same way the tour is “letting” guys play the Saudi event, the SGL could offer such huge amounts to top players to play in, say, 2-3 events per year, that the players put pressure on the tour to allow it. Or even sanction the event. 
 

This would very possibly come at the expense of some existing pga tour/euro events. 
 

This way, we (the fans) get a few more top field events, the SGL gets some prestige, and the players make more money. 
 

I think if the SGL approaches it this way, the tour may need to concede a bit. 

The PGA Tour isn’t merging or going to work with the SGL. It might work with the PGL, but even that is a stretch. 

[oikos1]

9 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

The PGA Tour isn’t merging or going to work with the SGL. It might work with the PGL, but even that is a stretch. 

Umm, the PGA Tour just said Tour players can play in the Saudi International, so they're working with somebody.

[aenemated]

Phil might want to keep in mind how the Saudis react to criticism before getting too involved IYKWIM. 

[Holy Moses]

9 minutes ago, oikos1 said:

Umm, the PGA Tour just said Tour players can play in the Saudi International, so they're working with somebody.

That’s letting someone play in a totally different league. I’m talking about a merger or a co-tour.