Kingsley Club Sold to Escalante Golf

[CHRISTOPHER DESANA]

21 minutes ago, MattSTL88 said:

Had no idea about the new Kingsley course, wow!

Yes, Coore Crenshaw have signed on is my understanding. Plus there will be a residential element added as well, not sure what that looks like currently?????

Rumor is that the new course will fall under the "ICON" Golf Membership, which would allow access to that course and many others that Escalante owns and offers under the ICON group.

May want to look at both sites for more course info.

[dtupy]

On 11/12/2024 at 12:01 PM, CHRISTOPHER DESANA said:

Yes, Coore Crenshaw have signed on is my understanding. Plus there will be a residential element added as well, not sure what that looks like currently?????

Rumor is that the new course will fall under the "ICON" Golf Membership, which would allow access to that course and many others that Escalante owns and offers under the ICON group.

May want to look at both sites for more course info.

Interesting, I didn't know about a new course coming to Kingsley. Do you have some links you can share? Will only this newer course be covered in the ICON membership leaving the original 18 to KC members only?

 

I recently got an email from KC as I have been interested in membership for a couple years now. I should have pulled the trigger when I first looked, as now there is a wait list with the initiation fee continuing to grow to the start of the 2025 season. I am curious if even now would be a good time if that is what the future holds. Especially if a second course is coming. 

 

I have only been able to play Kingsley once (in a Fried Egg event) but I had what was one of my favorite golf days to date. It's exactly what I am looking for. Fun golf, good people, and the property is just about golf. I spend a lot of time in the TC area and have been looking for a place to call home when it comes to golf. KC meets it all but the price is a bit steep. People in this thread say it seems like bubble for private golf in the area but it seems like it's only getting harder to find a club to join. I want to pull the trigger and join so bad...

[BG5]

18 hours ago, dtupy said:

Interesting, I didn't know about a new course coming to Kingsley. Do you have some links you can share? Will only this newer course be covered in the ICON membership leaving the original 18 to KC members only?

 

I recently got an email from KC as I have been interested in membership for a couple years now. I should have pulled the trigger when I first looked, as now there is a wait list with the initiation fee continuing to grow to the start of the 2025 season. I am curious if even now would be a good time if that is what the future holds. Especially if a second course is coming. 

 

I have only been able to play Kingsley once (in a Fried Egg event) but I had what was one of my favorite golf days to date. It's exactly what I am looking for. Fun golf, good people, and the property is just about golf. I spend a lot of time in the TC area and have been looking for a place to call home when it comes to golf. KC meets it all but the price is a bit steep. People in this thread say it seems like bubble for private golf in the area but it seems like it's only getting harder to find a club to join. I want to pull the trigger and join so bad...

 

The golf boom continues....Kingsley currently charging $35,000 initiation and $6500 a year for a regular member in dues but that is if you join the wait list and join in the next month or two.  National Membership is now $35,000 to join as well with $5700 dues.  Sounds like it jumps to $50,000 in May 2025 with the same $6500 in dues.  I am not surprised and I think they have plenty of people who would love to join at that price hence the waiting list.  The new course they are wanting to build is not under construction yet so that is probably still a few years out if it happens which I would assume it will.  Probably 2027 and 2028 if they get moving fast but yes members will be able to play it as well.  In 2015 it was like $5000 to join and in 2017 it bumped to $15,000.

 

Crystal Downs has a wait list and living requirements (good luck to get in but I do know a guy who just got in after 12 year wait).  Cost is $42,000 to join and $5900 a year in dues.  How do I know?  Do a Google search and they are hiring a GM right now with all the club information on the job posting.  

 

Lochenheath is also on a wait list with buy in around $35,000 and dues similar to above

 

Bay Harbor and Boyne are a great deal as you get access to all 12 courses

Bay Harbor Buy in is $11,500 (They let you finance it 5 years at 0%) and dues are $5600.  If under 40 its $2700 a year

 

I always thought that the private golf industry would eventually burst when I was in my younger years but now I realize there are a lot of people how have no problem paying a premium for golf....myself included although I don't have a membership 🙂  Also Traverse City is blowing up (wife and I just bought condo we Airbnb up there) and that town will easily be able to support a number of private courses as most of these members are coming from all over the country and probably fit into the national club category with direct flights from all over the country.  Exciting times in Northern Michigan and we are blessed to have some of the best golf courses in the world such as High Pointe, Crystal Downs, Kingsley Club, Arcadia Bluffs, Forest Dunes, Belvedere, Bay Harbor and so many others

 

 

[dtupy]

On 1/18/2025 at 12:02 PM, BG5 said:

 

The golf boom continues....Kingsley currently charging $35,000 initiation and $6500 a year for a regular member in dues but that is if you join the wait list and join in the next month or two.  National Membership is now $35,000 to join as well with $5700 dues.  Sounds like it jumps to $50,000 in May 2025 with the same $6500 in dues.  I am not surprised and I think they have plenty of people who would love to join at that price hence the waiting list.  The new course they are wanting to build is not under construction yet so that is probably still a few years out if it happens which I would assume it will.  Probably 2027 and 2028 if they get moving fast but yes members will be able to play it as well.  In 2015 it was like $5000 to join and in 2017 it bumped to $15,000.

 

Crystal Downs has a wait list and living requirements (good luck to get in but I do know a guy who just got in after 12 year wait).  Cost is $42,000 to join and $5900 a year in dues.  How do I know?  Do a Google search and they are hiring a GM right now with all the club information on the job posting.  

 

Lochenheath is also on a wait list with buy in around $35,000 and dues similar to above

 

Bay Harbor and Boyne are a great deal as you get access to all 12 courses

Bay Harbor Buy in is $11,500 (They let you finance it 5 years at 0%) and dues are $5600.  If under 40 its $2700 a year

 

I always thought that the private golf industry would eventually burst when I was in my younger years but now I realize there are a lot of people how have no problem paying a premium for golf....myself included although I don't have a membership 🙂  Also Traverse City is blowing up (wife and I just bought condo we Airbnb up there) and that town will easily be able to support a number of private courses as most of these members are coming from all over the country and probably fit into the national club category with direct flights from all over the country.  Exciting times in Northern Michigan and we are blessed to have some of the best golf courses in the world such as High Pointe, Crystal Downs, Kingsley Club, Arcadia Bluffs, Forest Dunes, Belvedere, Bay Harbor and so many others

 

 

Thanks for the breakdown and great insight. When it comes to the clubs you mentioned I think Kingsley would be my choice. As you mentioned TC seems to be only growing, and at a pace I find hard to sustain but we will see. I thought about joining a couple years ago and looking back I regret not doing it. Seems like if I don't now I will be feeling the same in the coming years. 

[cassel191919]

5 hours ago, dtupy said:

Thanks for the breakdown and great insight. When it comes to the clubs you mentioned I think Kingsley would be my choice. As you mentioned TC seems to be only growing, and at a pace I find hard to sustain but we will see. I thought about joining a couple years ago and looking back I regret not doing it. Seems like if I don't now I will be feeling the same in the coming years. 

Traverse City has become a complete nightmare, it will only get worse.

[dtupy]

1 hour ago, cassel191919 said:

Traverse City has become a complete nightmare, it will only get worse.

I still love the area and enjoy my time here, winter or summer. I will agree with nightmare when it comes to real estate options. 

[BG5]

7 hours ago, dtupy said:

I still love the area and enjoy my time here, winter or summer. I will agree with nightmare when it comes to real estate options. 

 

We just bought a condo in Grand Traverse Resort up there....paid alot more than we wanted but nice thing is you can Airbnb it without any restrictions and it will pay allow us to use it half time and basically have a free condo.....great opportunity for anyone who wants a summer or winter place for free.  Some Condos going as low as $149,0000 that have a 50 yard walk to lake michigan.  Not sure how anyone could lose money on it as that town continues to blow up

[cassel191919]

15 hours ago, dtupy said:

I still love the area and enjoy my time here, winter or summer. I will agree with nightmare when it comes to real estate options. 

Oh I love the area, I just generally stay as far away as I can on the weekends during summer. Last year with the single lane roads was not a lot of fun. 

[dtupy]

2 hours ago, cassel191919 said:

Oh I love the area, I just generally stay as far away as I can on the weekends during summer. Last year with the single lane roads was not a lot of fun. 

ok now you brought back some PTSD, that was a nightmare. I forgot all about that

[dtupy]

10 hours ago, BG5 said:

 

We just bought a condo in Grand Traverse Resort up there....paid alot more than we wanted but nice thing is you can Airbnb it without any restrictions and it will pay allow us to use it half time and basically have a free condo.....great opportunity for anyone who wants a summer or winter place for free.  Some Condos going as low as $149,0000 that have a 50 yard walk to lake michigan.  Not sure how anyone could lose money on it as that town continues to blow up

I have been looking into something similar. Right now the Hilltop condos have a couple nice ones up for sale, but I am not sure if those are able to be rented out. I do see what I assume you are talking about in the GTR property that do mention you can use as a rental which is appealing for sure.

[3_Jack_Par]

1 hour ago, dtupy said:

ok now you brought back some PTSD, that was a nightmare. I forgot all about that

I had been mentally prepared for it to be way worse that it was. I found that taking Eighth St. anytime we were driving through town, even though it was a bit longer distance, we avoided any major traffic jams. There were some big delays on Grandview heading to the west, for people who didn't avoid the area, though. 

[BG5]

3 hours ago, cassel191919 said:

Oh I love the area, I just generally stay as far away as I can on the weekends during summer. Last year with the single lane roads was not a lot of fun. 

I had not been to Traverse City in 10 years until last Summer.  The first thing I noticed was how busy traffic was and how agressive the drivers have become.

 

i was also shocked on the back roads when coming off 31 and places like fife lake rd, Williamsburg rd, 72…. These used to have very light traffic if any at all and now u feel like im driving in LA.

 

Almost hit a huge black bear on fife lake rd last summer so that was a first 😳

[BG5]

1 hour ago, dtupy said:

I have been looking into something similar. Right now the Hilltop condos have a couple nice ones up for sale, but I am not sure if those are able to be rented out. I do see what I assume you are talking about in the GTR property that do mention you can use as a rental which is appealing for sure.

Traverse City have reached their limit on allowing short term rentals.  The great thing about buying any condo on Grand Traverse Resort is the resort is owned by Native American tribes so there will never be a ban on short term rentals.  
 

Hilltop is apart of GTR so they allow short term and I actually stayed in one of those condos prior to buying in October and they are great.  We bought the Golfview condos near the main entrance and they also have others right next to tower and the beach club condos on Lake Michigan are also great.

 

There is a world class horse show that runs from June - Sept and people fly their horses in from Australia and other places.  That can’t be cheap 😂. These great folks pay huge amounts to rent the GTR condos because they are so close to show.  
 

I just had a woman from Wyoming rent my place for two weeks in July for almost $7000 and I probably priced it to cheap.  I’m still learning 😎

 

wife and I plan to use condo half of time from May - October and we are estimating $30,000 - $45000 of income even though we will use it half time .  I actually am considering buying another one because the money that can be made is insane.  The Hilltop condos are very safe investment and I know a few guys who own there and do extremely well.

 

to bad we didn’t buy prior to covid because a lot of these condos were priced $75.000-$150,000

 

you won’t lose money with buying one I promise 😎👊

[BG5]

24 minutes ago, 3_Jack_Par said:

I had been mentally prepared for it to be way worse that it was. I found that taking Eighth St. anytime we were driving through town, even though it was a bit longer distance, we avoided any major traffic jams. There were some big delays on Grandview heading to the west, for people who didn't avoid the area, though. 

3 jack

 

i know you have been on this forum for along time and always enjoyed your northern Michigan posts and knowledge.

 

you got a top 10 list of best northern Michigan courses to post for lurkers out there? 😎👊⛳️

[dtupy]

57 minutes ago, BG5 said:

Traverse City have reached their limit on allowing short term rentals.  The great thing about buying any condo on Grand Traverse Resort is the resort is owned by Native American tribes so there will never be a ban on short term rentals.  
 

Hilltop is apart of GTR so they allow short term and I actually stayed in one of those condos prior to buying in October and they are great.  We bought the Golfview condos near the main entrance and they also have others right next to tower and the beach club condos on Lake Michigan are also great.

 

There is a world class horse show that runs from June - Sept and people fly their horses in from Australia and other places.  That can’t be cheap 😂. These great folks pay huge amounts to rent the GTR condos because they are so close to show.  
 

I just had a woman from Wyoming rent my place for two weeks in July for almost $7000 and I probably priced it to cheap.  I’m still learning 😎

 

wife and I plan to use condo half of time from May - October and we are estimating $30,000 - $45000 of income even though we will use it half time .  I actually am considering buying another one because the money that can be made is insane.  The Hilltop condos are very safe investment and I know a few guys who own there and do extremely well.

 

to bad we didn’t buy prior to covid because a lot of these condos were priced $75.000-$150,000

 

you won’t lose money with buying one I promise 😎👊

Ya, I have been getting familiar with the rules around short terms rentals in the area and how funky they can be. I forgot about the resort being on tribal land.

 

I was aware of the horse show and how many renters come into the area for that looking for a place to stay. Seems like a pretty rock solid timeframe of getting a place rented out each year. 

 

When it comes to prices, I feel like even with what they are now I will be kicking myself trying to wait. Same with a club membership. I only see things getting more expensive. 

[3_Jack_Par]

1 hour ago, BG5 said:

3 jack

 

i know you have been on this forum for along time and always enjoyed your northern Michigan posts and knowledge.

 

you got a top 10 list of best northern Michigan courses to post for lurkers out there? 😎👊⛳️

Oh god, any list I have will be pretty incomplete, because there are definitely some big name places up there where I haven't played (examples: Belvedere, True North, anywhere in the U.P.), but I'll take a crack:

1. Kingsley

2. Crystal Downs

3. Forest Dunes (Dunes)

4. Arcadia Bluffs (Bluffs)

5. Bay Harbor (Links/Quarry)

6. Black Lake

7. The Tribute

8. The Highlands - Heather

9. Michaywe

10. The Highlands - Hills

 

I'm probably leaving off something I shouldn't be, but that's just off the top of my head.

 

 

[Pepetito]

5 hours ago, BG5 said:

Traverse City have reached their limit on allowing short term rentals.  The great thing about buying any condo on Grand Traverse Resort is the resort is owned by Native American tribes so there will never be a ban on short term rentals.  
 

Hilltop is apart of GTR so they allow short term and I actually stayed in one of those condos prior to buying in October and they are great.  We bought the Golfview condos near the main entrance and they also have others right next to tower and the beach club condos on Lake Michigan are also great.

 

There is a world class horse show that runs from June - Sept and people fly their horses in from Australia and other places.  That can’t be cheap 😂. These great folks pay huge amounts to rent the GTR condos because they are so close to show.  
 

I just had a woman from Wyoming rent my place for two weeks in July for almost $7000 and I probably priced it to cheap.  I’m still learning 😎

 

wife and I plan to use condo half of time from May - October and we are estimating $30,000 - $45000 of income even though we will use it half time .  I actually am considering buying another one because the money that can be made is insane.  The Hilltop condos are very safe investment and I know a few guys who own there and do extremely well.

 

to bad we didn’t buy prior to covid because a lot of these condos were priced $75.000-$150,000

 

you won’t lose money with buying one I promise 😎👊

Are the Hilltop condos Grand Traverse Resort accomodations or are they all privately owned?

[BG5]

32 minutes ago, Pepetito said:

Are the Hilltop condos Grand Traverse Resort accomodations or are they all privately owned?

They are all privately owned although the resort might own a couple.

 

Owners have the option to Airbnb it themselves or you also have option to have resort manage it which saves you some money in HOAs but they take 50% of earnings.

 

If you want zero hassle not a bad way to go but pretty easy to manage it yourself.  I just started and it’s pretty easy with excellent returns 

[Pepetito]

15 hours ago, BG5 said:

They are all privately owned although the resort might own a couple.

 

Owners have the option to Airbnb it themselves or you also have option to have resort manage it which saves you some money in HOAs but they take 50% of earnings.

 

If you want zero hassle not a bad way to go but pretty easy to manage it yourself.  I just started and it’s pretty easy with excellent returns 

Its been awhile since I've played the Grand Traverse courses.  How are those these days?  A couple in our group have expressed interest in doing our annual trip up there (playing the 3 Grand Traverse courses) if we can get on Lochenheath as well.

 

Back to the Hilltop condos...is there any degree of yard/outside area for a group to congregate, play bags, etc?

 

Thanks.

[BG5]

1 minute ago, Pepetito said:

Its been awhile since I've played the Grand Traverse courses.  How are those these days?  A couple in our group have expressed interest in doing our annual trip up there (playing the 3 Grand Traverse courses) if we can get on Lochenheath as well.

 

Back to the Hilltop condos...is there any degree of yard/outside area for a group to congregate, play bags, etc?

 

Thanks.

courses at GTR are in amazing shape.  Wolverine is my favorite and is a great course that is very enjoyable.  The bear is a great courses as well but is one of the toughest in the Midwest.  But yes they are in really excellent condition.

 

Hilltop condos are awesome as well.  On the south end of units there are picnic tables, a grill etc to hangout and it’s nice because McKees is a 2 min walk.  Ya can’t go wrong staying in those units.

 

 

 

[CHRISTOPHER DESANA]

Northern Michigan golf has exploded. From metro Detroit originally but have been on the East Coast for the better part of 25 years now. Started renting in the the Greater Traverse City area about a decade ago and purchased a place on Lake Charlevoix about 5 years ago.

The two best deals in the region are Belvedere Season Tickets or Partial Season Tickets and Boyne. I believe Belvedere season tickets are sold out and have a wait list.

That said, with another course at Kingsley and High Pointe joining the line up I dont know how much more room there is for high end private. 

[cassel191919]

On 1/25/2025 at 3:26 PM, CHRISTOPHER DESANA said:

Northern Michigan golf has exploded. From metro Detroit originally but have been on the East Coast for the better part of 25 years now. Started renting in the the Greater Traverse City area about a decade ago and purchased a place on Lake Charlevoix about 5 years ago.

The two best deals in the region are Belvedere Season Tickets or Partial Season Tickets and Boyne. I believe Belvedere season tickets are sold out and have a wait list.

That said, with another course at Kingsley and High Pointe joining the line up I dont know how much more room there is for high end private. 

The land is there, the question is how many members are needed when people have as much cash as they seem to.