Can a legit scratch golfer with an professional athletic background beat a 50 something retired LPGA pro?

[Pepperturbo]

22 hours ago, Obee said:

You missed the 67, 68 he shot at Hacienda from the tips because they just fell off.

If you're talking about the pvt Hacienda that I've played, (it will eat your lunch) those are some highly impressive scores.  Yep, very few women could measure up on that tack even from woman's White tees. 

 

At best, we can only compare a few days of scoring against multiple days of a tour player.  What makes the comparison unreasonable, we assume the best of tour players and the worst of scratch amateur, not including the off scores of tour players.  You know, all those gals that fall down the stack rankings for months sometimes years on end.

 

@Forged4ever Depth of Field reasoning, today, is kinda of blowing the truth out of proportion and calling it an argument.  If you read Rahm's recent remarks about AmExp (PGA West course) setup, it doesn't bode well for tour youngsters.  I've played each of the courses in PGA West rotation, many times.  But when rough was legitimately up and fairways were tight in the landing areas.  Those tough courses were made so much easier its amazing... not good.  Rahm was right.

[Pepperturbo]

3 hours ago, Shilgy said:

If being 20 strokes back after four rounds is competing y’all have an entirely different view of being competitive than I do.

 

Being competitive does NOT or should NOT mean having to beat the best of the LPGA ALL the time.  Twenty (20) strokes back over a tournament is holding his own, no different from all the women that are 20 back in the same theoretical event.

 

Anyone that plays in competition knows a low-single or scratch can swing as much as 10 strokes in either direction on a given day.  My low is 68, and I was playing to a 2.  I've reached under par more than a few times.  I've seen some damn good scratch and + guys on testy strange courses play lights out in tournaments, and seen some low-single digit guys beat scratch and plus guys under similar conditions.  The variable is what level of pressure a person is comfortable with. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Pepperturbo

[Ross_Albatross]

2 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

Being competitive does NOT or should NOT mean having to beat the best of the LPGA ALL the time.  Twenty (20) strokes back over a tournament is holding his own, no different from all the women that are 20 back in the same theoretical event.

 

Anyone that plays in competition knows a low-single or scratch can swing as much as 10 strokes in either direction on a given day.

 

I agree and get what you are saying – it serves to prove the point also, in my opinion… from a previous comment:

--

I think this interesting thread is demonstrating (if nothing else haha) that by definition the handicap system is showing the potential of a player, on any given day, if he had a match play or stroke play to try and level out the playing field... It is not showing what a guy usually scores, on average, relative to par...

 

Thus, on any given Sunday - can Derek Lowe play with Annika (or even 30 LPGA ladies for that matter)? The answer is yes, and we had an example of such days...

 

Can Derek Lowe keep up with the LPGA ladies in the long run? The answer is no

 

Basically, if he loses on average a couple of strokes per round to the typical LPGA lady... extrapolating : on any day, anything can happen... for a tourney, maybe... for a season, no chance

--

 

As an aside – the PGA Tour scores usually follow a bell curve of mean 70.8 and standard deviation of 2.6… said differently : there is a 95% chance that the final score (par72) for a PGA player will be between 65.6 and 76.0…

These guys/gals are tremendous at avoiding the disastrous rounds… 95% of the time below 76!... and this is where the low-cap / scratch, as you mentioned, wouldn’t be able to keep up in the long run… on any day – sure… for way longer, no chance…

[Pepperturbo]

1 minute ago, MtlJayMan said:

 

I agree and get what you are saying – it serves to prove the point also, in my opinion… from a previous comment:

--

I think this interesting thread is demonstrating (if nothing else haha) that by definition the handicap system is showing the potential of a player, on any given day, if he had a match play or stroke play to try and level out the playing field... It is not showing what a guy usually scores, on average, relative to par...

 

Thus, on any given Sunday - can Derek Lowe play with Annika (or even 30 LPGA ladies for that matter)? The answer is yes, and we had an example of such days...

 

Can Derek Lowe keep up with the LPGA ladies in the long run? The answer is no

 

Basically, if he loses on average a couple of strokes per round to the typical LPGA lady... extrapolating : on any day, anything can happen... for a tourney, maybe... for a season, no chance

--

 

As an aside – the PGA Tour scores usually follow a bell curve of mean 70.8 and standard deviation of 2.6… said differently : there is a 95% chance that the final score (par72) for a PGA player will be between 65.6 and 76.0…

These guys/gals are tremendous at avoiding the disastrous rounds… 95% of the time below 76!... and this is where the low-cap / scratch, as you mentioned, wouldn’t be able to keep up in the long run… on any day – sure… for way longer, no chance…

I hear ya, and you'd be right if we're considering "long run" as a measure, and not adding in assumptions.  If anyone, including Derek was LONG run, good, he'd be playing on the PGA, so it's not a valid argument.

[Ross_Albatross]

6 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

I hear ya, and you'd be right if we're considering "long run" as a measure, and not adding in assumptions.  If anyone, including Derek was LONG run, good, he'd be playing on the PGA, so it's not a valid argument.

Fair enough - as stated in the OP question, it’s looking at short term - and we had our answer that it was possible

[Shilgy]

4 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

Being competitive does NOT or should NOT mean having to beat the best of the LPGA ALL the time.  Twenty (20) strokes back over a tournament is holding his own, no different from all the women that are 20 back in the same theoretical event.

 

Anyone that plays in competition knows a low-single or scratch can swing as much as 10 strokes in either direction on a given day.  My low is 68, and I was playing to a 2.  I've reached under par more than a few times.  I've seen some damn good scratch and + guys on testy strange courses play lights out in tournaments, and seen some low-single digit guys beat scratch and plus guys under similar conditions.  The variable is what level of pressure a person is comfortable with. 

The thread is  “can he beat” and did  he in stroke play? No.  Can he? Perhaps or perhaps this is the best he could have done. Nothing was proven otherwise.

 

Your version of five strokes a round back being competitive is ludicrous to me.  The businessman you are would say the same.  Your best is pointless in this thread as many of us have done better.

Ive seen the ladies close up for years  s well.  The old saying of scratch ain’t s*** applies in this thread.

 

Have do we need to have these ridiculous premise threads every winter.  Some of y’all need to get out and play. You’re going stir crazy.

[mocokid]

On 1/25/2022 at 12:04 PM, Obee said:

Here are Derek Lowe's last 20 scores. He averaged 75. Is he not a "true" scratch because he averaged 75? And playing some very, very easy courses, I might add... Heck, if he averaged 72 over those rounds he'd be a +3 or +4. Keep in mind that I am currently unemployed and I have a lot of time on my hands .... 🤣

 

131, 141 slope courses are easy?  Wow. 

[LeoLeo99]

On 1/25/2022 at 4:30 PM, bladehunter said:

Eh.  I don’t even know if we can say that. This was a fairly strong field.  At least half so.  We’d have to be assuming that he played his tip top best possible and they played their worst possible. I don’t think either is true.   Then there’s the tee question.  Do we handicap it with separate tees or not ? 

I think if you're going to compare Lowe to LPGA you need to play off the same tees and play it even.  You can't spot the ladies 500 yds are then say Lowe can't hang.  

[Shilgy]

4 minutes ago, LeoLeo99 said:

I think if you're going to compare Lowe to LPGA you need to play off the same tees and play it even.  You can't spot the ladies 500 yds are then say Lowe can't hang.  

They did play the same tees. Probably short for Fish and Lowe and long for Annika.  But who won? 
 

I don’t recall if the celebs event was same tees as main event.

[ThinkingPlus]

1 hour ago, LeoLeo99 said:

I think if you're going to compare Lowe to LPGA you need to play off the same tees and play it even.  You can't spot the ladies 500 yds are then say Lowe can't hang.  

Same tees.  Around 6600 yards all 4 days I believe.  Roughly the Blue/White combo tees at Lake Nona.

[bladehunter]

3 hours ago, Shilgy said:

The thread is  “can he beat” and did  he in stroke play? No.  Can he? Perhaps or perhaps this is the best he could have done. Nothing was proven otherwise.

 

Your version of five strokes a round back being competitive is ludicrous to me.  The businessman you are would say the same.  Your best is pointless in this thread as many of us have done better.

Ive seen the ladies close up for years  s well.  The old saying of scratch ain’t s*** applies in this thread.

 

Have do we need to have these ridiculous premise threads every winter.  Some of y’all need to get out and play. You’re going stir crazy.

A bomb cyclone comes every Friday night !!!! El Niño is reeking havoc !!!!    

[Stinger83]

I played with a retired Japanese lady tour player once. 

 

From the same tees - yes. 

From ladies tees vs tips. No 

[Forged4ever]

23 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Lol…..not about feels?  This whole thread has been about feels.  What do you feel is a scratch?  But how about a traveling or tourney scratch?  Lol. I crossed Lowe an Fish in their “real”  index.  “Real” because as @Obee stated Lowe is likely in the plus range a bit with 100% compliant and accurate posting.

  So we have a group of guys posting on the board that have repeatedly stated that a 4, nah… a scratch could compete on the ladies tour.  Which is utterly daft as this last weeks event showed.  If being 20 strokes back after four rounds is competing y’all have an entirely different view of being competitive than I do.

 

As for depth of field not mattering? Lol I’ve said my fill on that subject.  You may have noticed that there were more guys in the 300’s in the owgr last week that finished top ten than there were high rated guys. And Swafford was 166 going in.  But sure.  The guys of the olden golden guys were tough as old shoes because they needed to be to eat. 
 

 

edited to add….

 

 

Adoringly 😍🥰😍

 

 

We are on the same page regarding our thoughts on a "scratch" being able to compete on the LPGA Tour, lol. It's kinda funny cuz most of the guys chirpin that stuff ARE NOT, NOR HAVE THEY EVER PLAYED AT/COMPETED AT SCRATCH/PLUS, EVER!!

 

The only ones that I could see having a chance are those Scratches/Plusses that were past deep Plusses(+4 or lower) who were formerly Elite collegiate Ams or Pros, like @isaacbm, basically, guys for whom, life got in the way and they travelled north to scratch versus Ams who travelled south to Scratch.

 

Stay Well Brotha👊
RP

[Shilgy]

2 hours ago, Forged4ever said:

We are on the same page regarding our thoughts on a "scratch" being able to compete on the LPGA Tour, lol. It's kinda funny cuz most of the guys chirpin that stuff ARE NOT, NOR HAVE THEY EVER PLAYED AT/COMPETED AT SCRATCH/PLUS, EVER!!

 

The only ones that I could see having a chance are those Scratches/Plusses that were past deep Plusses(+4 or lower) who were formerly Elite collegiate Ams or Pros, like @isaacbm, basically, guys for whom, life got in the way and they travelled north to scratch versus Ams who travelled south to Scratch.

 

Stay Well Brotha👊
RP

I’m glad someone gets it!  
 

Hope,all,is well with your health Richard.  

[isaacbm]

I just think of the whole thing as a basic math problem. 
Lets  say a scratch ranges from +1 to 1 handicap throughout the year.

Lets say a top LPGA tour pro ranges from +5 to +3 handicap throughout the year and a 100th  in the world ranked LPGA tour player ranges from a +3 to +1 handicap throughout the year.

(for apples to apples we are computing the ladies handicap as if she was a man.)

So basically, the top women’s scores range from somewhere between seven under the course rating to four over the course rating. 

The average scratch golfers range would be somewhere from about two under the course rating to 10 over the course rating.

THERE IS OVERLAP IN RANGES!!

 

So, sometimes the higher handicap will beat the lower handicap. The frequency is really the question. And that depends on how competitive the scratch is , how many rounds per year they play, how tight their scoring range is, how well they do under pressure,etc. 

 

If you were to take the same two players and play them 100 rounds on the same conditions in the same group then you could actually have a clear answer. But using a one off round as your source is not really any good..

 

 

[sittingbull]

Serious question has a man ever played on the LPGA ??

 

 

[Pepperturbo]

20 hours ago, Shilgy said:

The thread is  “can he beat” and did  he in stroke play? No.  Can he? Perhaps or perhaps this is the best he could have done. Nothing was proven otherwise.

 

Your version of five strokes a round back being competitive is ludicrous to me.  The businessman you are would say the same.  Your best is pointless in this thread as many of us have done better.

Ive seen the ladies close up for years  s well.  The old saying of scratch ain’t s*** applies in this thread.

 

Have do we need to have these ridiculous premise threads every winter.  Some of y’all need to get out and play. You’re going stir crazy.

It's NOT 5 but 10 stroke swing... and if you've done it, you'd then know it's possible.  If you haven't done it, that's on you.  I did 68 in my late 60s... and 70 carding 73/74 - 2 over par.  How old were you allegedly did better?  Its a golf discussion forum where damn near everyone floats ideal.  Then there are some of us that actually play the game, still.  You have a good day.

[Shilgy]

1 minute ago, Pepperturbo said:

It's NOT 5 but 10 stroke swing... and if you've done it, you'd then know it's possible.  If you haven't done it, that's on you.  I did 68 in my late 60s... and 70 carding 73/74 - 2 over par.  How old were you allegedly did better?  Its a golf discussion forum where damn near everyone floats ideal.  Then there are some of us that actually play the game, still.  You have a good day.

Well since you asked…+0.5 about 5 years ago was my best…still in the 2’s for index at age 65 this March.  Scores mean little without context of tees but this was not supposed to be a pissing match.  You’re not the,only one still playing ya know.. might want to remember that in the future.

 

And thank you so much for the well wishes!  You have a good day as well!😀

[PixlPutterman]

23 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

I hear ya, and you'd be right if we're considering "long run" as a measure, and not adding in assumptions.  If anyone, including Derek was LONG run, good, he'd be playing on the PGA, so it's not a valid argument.

That is kinda the argument for me though, Im less interested in "could a scratch have a fluke day and beat an LPGA Pro on her off day" because anything could happen.

I could drain a half court shot and Steph could miss one, no chance I could make a living in the NBA, heck Im not good enough for middle school basketball.

 

But I think that is where the different opinions come from when ever these threads pop up. Some are looking at it from a "could it happen" and some are looking at the "possibility" of it happening.

 

Im a 2, and I beat a +3 at our course......once.......he's beat me 1000 times lol

[Pepperturbo]

1 minute ago, PixlPutterman said:

That is kinda the argument for me though, Im less interested in "could a scratch have a fluke day and beat an LPGA Pro on her off day" because anything could happen.

I could drain a half court shot and Steph could miss one, no chance I could make a living in the NBA, heck Im not good enough for middle school basketball.

 

But I think that is where the different opinions come from when ever these threads pop up. Some are looking at it from a "could it happen" and some are looking at the "possibility" of it happening.

 

Im a 2, and I beat a +3 at our course......once.......he's beat me 1000 times lol

I hear ya...

 

The salient point is it can be done by someone that has the frame of mind to step up and make things happen under pressure.  But we're all cut from different cloth.  Next time, maybe you'll beat him, if you want it badly enough.

[PixlPutterman]

11 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

I hear ya...

 

The salient point is it can be done by someone that has the frame of mind to step up and make things happen under pressure.  But we're all cut from different cloth.  Next time, maybe you'll beat him, if you want it badly enough.

Not even a desire problem, dude is a LIGHTS OUT putter 🙂

[Obee]

23 hours ago, Shilgy said:

The thread is  “can he beat” and did  he in stroke play? No.  Can he? Perhaps or perhaps this is the best he could have done. Nothing was proven otherwise.

 

Your version of five strokes a round back being competitive is ludicrous to me.  The businessman you are would say the same.  Your best is pointless in this thread as many of us have done better.

Ive seen the ladies close up for years  s well.  The old saying of scratch ain’t s*** applies in this thread.

 

Have do we need to have these ridiculous premise threads every winter.  Some of y’all need to get out and play. You’re going stir crazy.

With all due respect, I don't even know what you're contending anymore, Shils. A scratch golfer by just about anyone's definition tied Annika in the format they played and then beat her in a playoff. Period. He also beat or tied several others and they were all tournament winners from last year, not the bottom 100 from the tour. The played the same tees in the same conditions -- and they were tough.

 

The question has been answered ... unless Lowe is a bigtime sandbagger, which he could be. But don't throw that out there like it's truth, because it isn't. I just said that he may be a bit of a bagger.

 

Too many people over the years have made wild claims about how badly any legit LPGA player would "destroy" or "trounce" a true scratch golfer, and that is just not true all the time. And that's okay. No one in these threads ever says that a scratch golfer would win an LPGA tournament. Ever. Or even contend. That's never even at issue. So when you bring up how far back he was from the winner, that's truly goal post moving on your part.

[Shilgy]

17 minutes ago, Obee said:

With all due respect, I don't even know what you're contending anymore, Shils. A scratch golfer by just about anyone's definition tied Annika in the format they played and then beat her in a playoff. Period. He also beat or tied several others and they were all tournament winners from last year, not the bottom 100 from the tour. The played the same tees in the same conditions -- and they were tough.

 

The question has been answered ... unless Lowe is a bigtime sandbagger, which he could be. But don't throw that out there like it's truth, because it isn't. I just said that he may be a bit of a bagger.

 

Too many people over the years have made wild claims about how badly any legit LPGA player would "destroy" or "trounce" a true scratch golfer, and that is just not true all the time. And that's okay. No one in these threads ever says that a scratch golfer would win an LPGA tournament. Ever. Or even contend. That's never even at issue. So when you bring up how far back he was from the winner, that's truly goal post moving on your part.

Ok fine.  Since these threads have been about competing with a current player I will concede he was close to a couple at the back of the pack.  Does that mean on her worst day he can contend?  I will have to discount Wie…hadn’t played an event since June as wee as discount Annika.  Granted that was the comp in the title but really? Who cares if a scratch can eek out a playoff win against a 51 yo woman that essentially retired long ago?  What does a tie with Annika have to do with the normal scratch vs lady?  Speaking of the dancing goal posts I referenced.

 

edited to add… I have long contended the average LPGA player is about a +1 to +2 mens handicap.  Based on scores.  So yeah…the 4 will generally get trounced.  The scratch could have some events where he makes the cut if he plays his best. Typically the pro will have fewer really bad days than the scratch imo.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Shilgy

[PixlPutterman]

Moderately off topic...

 

I played college golf, worst guy on the team. Didn't care because I still got to play golf all the time.

 

Our top 3 guys were lights out, if they weren't in the 60s they were really upset, and they RARELY weren't in the 60s....

 

Our best golfer was a south Korean gal on the ladies team.....she'd beat every guy from the guys team, from the back tees, every time.

 

I've never met a more solid golfer.

 

I think these "questions" are too vague sometimes.

 

Can you find someone with an LPGA card who'd lose to a male scratch golfer on his best day......sure....

 

Find an honest scratch and put him up against someone earning a moderate living on the LPGA......slim to no chance.

[Forged4ever]

8 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Well since you asked…+0.5 about 5 years ago was my best…still in the 2’s for index at age 65 this March.  Scores mean little without context of tees but this was not supposed to be a pissing match.  You’re not the,only one still playing ya know.. might want to remember that in the future.

 

And thank you so much for the well wishes!  You have a good day as well!😀

Bro, one, I hope that ya know that I was just messing around as I would if we were sittin around the table at the 19th🍺🥃 Be it the real world or virtual, yah, I'm an *sshole, though I like to keep it light off of the course, lol. Besides, you're one of my fave members and I'd never ever take a serious shot at you on the board. 
 

I didn't mean to get Pepper all wound up😂😂🤷🏻‍♂️. Jesus Pep, Shilgs ain't one of these entitled clueless newbs, lol. He's at our table Brotha🤙👊
 

Well, you guys don't have to worry about me as I can't grip the club for longer than 5-7 seconds without tremors occurring, can't get off of my left side(I was thinking about tryin the S&T though Maddie said "don't even think about it," 😂) and rarely, if ever, hit the same spot twice in a row on the club nowadays😜🤪

On another subject, I Played a number of rounds(pre-medical meltdown🤪) with Michelle and damn, can she smoke a golf ball💥. Seriously, she's the first female that I ever saw, much less Played with, that could take it 3 bills+💵💵💵. When she winds up, it's ridiculous, lol. I stood FO when she hit and her shoulder turn with minimal hip turn(as noted in pic) is beyond impressive. It's obscene, haha. This is one LPGAer that can take it deeeeeep when the urge strikes her. She said that she took it 300 for the first time on a course at 13yo, though no one believed her or her father, who was her caddie at the time, until the following year, at the age of 14yo, when Michelle not only took it 307yds on a measured hole, she also shot the lowest round ever shot by a female in a PGA event, which stands to this day, with a 68!! FWIW, Michelle was 6'0" at the age of 14yo, and she added an inch to stand 6'1" as an adult.
 

She has the most "guy like" swing of any woman that I've ever Played with. Her move is incredible and there are only a handful of Ams on this board with a move to match. You can take that to the bank🏦 Gents(I'm not talkin just winding up & blastin it, I'm talkin landin it in the short hair😉)

 
 

 

Well, that's about it Brotha. I just hope ya know that my stuff was said in jest😊🤗👊

 

oh yah, one last thing~
 

I agree 💯 with Obes that there are far too many clueless chops claiming that a legit LPGAer would destroy a competitive scratch(Please remember that my definition of a competitive scratch is a Plus Player, of which I was one, that Plays to that Plus under the gun😉). The reason that I call em "chops" is cuz they are guys who have not "been there done that," as any guy who has, KNOWS that not to be the case. Would they win every time? Come 'on, don't be a moron too😂😂. Of course not!! However, they would compete, they would win a few and they most certainly would hold their own in any match, and I'm speaking from the same tees, as Michelle, Madison(Maddie won't ever say it though she was a +4.1 to +4.2 during the 2011-2012 seasons. Now she sux and is a chop at +2.2😂😂) and Stacy Lewis, when she Played, did.

 

Thanks much for reading this rambling word wreckage😂😂🤙

 
Fairways & Greens 4ever⛳️

RP

No

Edited January 28, 2022 by Forged4ever

[mwkbmw]

26 minutes ago, Forged4ever said:

...

On another subject, I Played a number of rounds(pre-medical meltdown🤪) with Michelle and damn, can she smoke a golf ball💥. Seriously, she's the first female that I ever saw, much less Played with, that could take it 3 bills+💵💵💵. When she winds up, it's ridiculous, lol. I stood FO when she hit and her shoulder turn with minimal hip turn(as noted in pic) is beyond impressive. It's obscene, haha. This is one LPGAer that can take it deeeeeep when the urge strikes her. She said that she took it 300 for the first time on a course at 13yo, though no one believed her or her father, who was her caddie at the time, until the following year, at the age of 14yo, when Michelle not only took it 307yds on a measured hole, she also shot the lowest round ever shot by a female in a PGA event, which stands to this day, with a 68!! FWIW, Michelle was 6'0" at the age of 14yo, and she added an inch to stand 6'1" as an adult.
 

She has the most "guy like" swing of any woman that I've ever Played with. Her move is incredible and there are only a handful of Ams on this board with a move to match. You can take that to the bank🏦 Gents😉

 
 

 
Fairways & Greens 4ever⛳️

RP

No

 

 

 

I live close and had the good fortune to get tickets to both the Men's and Women's US Opens at Pinehurst in 2014. I remember as I watched Michelle, I couldn't help but think that she had such an advantage over most of the ladies that it was like a man playing against women.

 

It's a shame and frankly, a wonder, that she didn't win at a Tiger-like clip. If only she had the mental game that he had...

[Obee]

1 hour ago, Forged4ever said:

Bro, one, I hope that ya know that I was just messing around as I would if we were sittin around the table at the 19th🍺🥃 Be it the real world or virtual, yah, I'm an *sshole, though I like to keep it light off of the course, lol. Besides, you're one of my fave members and I'd never ever take a serious shot at you on the board. 
 

I didn't mean to get Pepper all wound up😂😂🤷🏻‍♂️. Jesus Pep, Shilgs ain't one of these entitled clueless newbs, lol. He's at our table Brotha🤙👊
 

Well, you guys don't have to worry about me as I can't grip the club for longer than 5-7 seconds without tremors occurring, can't get off of my left side(I was thinking about tryin the S&T though Maddie said "don't e!ven think about it," 😂) and rarely, if ever, hit the same spot twice in a row on the club nowadays😜🤪

On another subject, I Played a number of rounds(pre-medical meltdown🤪) with Michelle and damn, can she smoke a golf ball💥. Seriously, she's the first female that I ever saw, much less Played with, that could take it 3 bills+💵💵💵. When she winds up, it's ridiculous, lol. I stood FO when she hit and her shoulder turn with minimal hip turn(as noted in pic) is beyond impressive. It's obscene, haha. This is one LPGAer that can take it deeeeeep when the urge strikes her. She said that she took it 300 for the first time on a course at 13yo, though no one believed her or her father, who was her caddie at the time, until the following year, at the age of 14yo, when Michelle not only took it 307yds on a measured hole, she also shot the lowest round ever shot by a female in a PGA event, which stands to this day, with a 68!! FWIW, Michelle was 6'0" at the age of 14yo, and she added an inch to stand 6'1" as an adult.
 

She has the most "guy like" swing of any woman that I've ever Played with. Her move is incredible and there are only a handful of Ams on this board with a move to match. You can take that to the bank🏦 Gents(I'm not talkin just winding up & blastin it, I'm talkin landin it in the short hair😉)

 
 

 

 

 

We might as well be twins, Michelle and me ....

 

Couldn't resist. 🤣

 

[Shilgy]

36 minutes ago, Obee said:

 

We might as well be twins, Michelle and me ....

 

Couldn't resist. 🤣

 

I can only assume you’re wearing the same shoes?

[Forged4ever]

9 hours ago, mwkbmw said:

I live close and had the good fortune to get tickets to both the Men's and Women's US Opens at Pinehurst in 2014. I remember as I watched Michelle, I couldn't help but think that she had such an advantage over most of the ladies that it was like a man playing against women.

 

It's a shame and frankly, a wonder, that she didn't win at a Tiger-like clip. If only she had the mental game that he had...

Yah, I thought the same thing Bro, and said so to Madison, who became good friends with Michelle and she said that Michelle was in a much better place than Tiger EVER was because she was at peace with herself, her achievements to date(2012) and her place in the world, regardless of what the future held. She told us in 2012 that as a child she had visualized herself(shot for shot, round for round and major for major, all 16 of em) winning 16 Majors(Patty Berg has 15), having a wonderful husband and two Beautiful children, a Boy👦🏼 and a Girl👧🏼, and she would live happily ever after, lol. She giggled a few times when she said this, though I could tell when she would look away from us, staring off above us, that she was no doubt visualizing those past Dreams and while there obviously would have to be adjustments made on the Tourney side, she also said and I am quoting this, "I will win a Major before I'm done. I'm too good not to."

 

The thing was, as light hearted and sorta girlish as she was in telling of her early dreams, goals and visions, she flipped the switch, as the greatest competitors do, regardless of whether they be Am or Pro, or regardless of the sport, when she made the comment of winning a Major and stating that she was "too good" not to, as she turned dead serious, her tone dropped and she had an intense look in her eyes. She also seemed to be speaking to Madison more so than me as they were talking of competitive golf, Guys versus Gals, yada yada yada and I was eating as many nachos and guacamole🥑 as I could without appearing to do so and lookin like a pig🐽 as it was the best guac that I'd had in years😂😂. Maddie even kicked me under the table as in "slowTF down ya pig," lolol. 
 

Madison and Michelle spoke about her life, how hers & Tiger's early lives had paralleled each others, though she took a left where he took a right and he took a left when Michelle went right. She didn't specifically mention Tiger's Mother, though Maddie couldn't help but notice that Michelle spoke often of her Mother, a former South Korean Amateur Champion, as the competitive driving force in her early life, with her Father being the "softer" of the two. 
 

It came as no surprise to Madison or I when Michelle won her first Major two years later, the US Open, THE Major to win for an American Female Pro if they win only one(or a Male Pro for that matter, though I'd take the Masters cuz of the annual dinner, and yah, I'd have Mexican from Agave Azul🥑🌮), nor when she got married and had a Beautiful lil Girl👧🏼. Michelle has had the same type of physical setbacks as Tiger, minus the car wreck, and if she can regain her health and stay healthy, I see no reason why she can't add to her 5 LPGA Championships or 1 Major. However, if she does not and she never wins another Tourney, Michelle is happy and at peace with herself, something that I believe that Tiger has had an issue with and chased his entire life, and I'm not convinced that he's caught it and is at peace, though he has been force fed a few very large negative doses of reality. 
 

Upon further thought, along with Madison filling in the gaps that Father Time, meds and lost brain cells have erased, I think that Michelle's mind set is just fine, while it ain't Tiger's, though really, who's is or ever was?

 

Jack and maybe Hogan(That's a big maybe though his comeback from the wreck was impressive)?

 

While Michelle didn't approach Tiger's record as a Pro, she did win 5 LPGA Tourneys along with 1 Major, plus she was one of the Premier American Players🇺🇸 for over a decade, Playin on a decades' worth of Solheim Cups(5) along with being chosen as an Asst. Captain for the upcoming Cup(It's yet to be determined if she'll be a Playing Asst).

 

I think that if ya had Tiger at one end of the scale, the young Phenom who lived up to the hype, and then say, Fast Eddie Pearce on the other end of the scale, the Am Phenom who SI anointed as the "next Jack," who wilted like a rose🥀 in the Arizona summer heat as a Pro, or that poor b*stard, Ty Tryon🤪, who might still be mounting another comeback😜😂,  Michelle would probably be somewhere in the middle. While she may not have lived up to the hype, very very very few ever do, however she won a few including a Major, has a life time's worth of memories and a few lifetimes' worth of friends and acquaintances, including her life-mate,along with having a gorgeous lil child, and at the end of every day, she is cool with the Gal lookin back at her in the mirror🪞 

 

However, the icing on the cake for me is that friggin turn with the square hips, lolol

 

Three Bills💵💵💵 Bros, three bills😂😂🤙

 

And a smile that could melt frozen butter😜!!

 

Stay Well Brotha👊
RP
 

 

Edited January 28, 2022 by Forged4ever

[Shilgy]

4 minutes ago, Forged4ever said:

Yah, I thought the same thing Bro, and said so to Madison, who became good friends with Michelle and she said that Michelle was in a much better place than Tiger EVER was because she was at peace with herself, her achievements to date(2012) and her place in the world, regardless of what the future held. She told us in 2012 that as a child she had visualized herself(shot for shot, round for round and major for major, all 16 of em) winning 16 Majors(Patty Berg has 15), having a wonderful husband and two Beautiful children, a Boy👦🏼 and a Girl👧🏼, and she would live happily ever after, lol. She giggled a few times when she said this, though I could tell when she would look away from us, staring off above us, that she was no doubt visualizing those past Dreams and while there obviously would have to be adjustments made on the Tourney side, she also said and I am quoting this, "I will win a Major before I'm done. I'm too good not to."

 

The thing was, as light hearted and sorta girlish as she was in telling of her early dreams, goals and visions, she flipped the switch, as the greatest competitors do, regardless of whether they be Am

or Pro, or regardless of the sport, when she made the comment of winning a Major and stating that she was "too good" not to, as she turned dead serious, her tone dropped and she had an intense look in her eyes. She also seemed to be speaking to Madison more so than me as they were talking of competitive golf, Guys versus Gals, yada yada yada and I was eating as many nachos and guacamole🥑 as I could without appearing to do so and lookin like a pig🐽 as it was the best guac that I'd had in years😂😂. Maddie even kicked me under the table as in "slowTF down ya pig," lolol. 
 

Madison and Michelle spoke about her life, how hers & Tiger's early lives had paralleled each others, though she took a left where he took a right and he took a left when Michelle went right. She didn't specifically mention Tiger's Mother, though Maddie couldn't help but notice that Michelle spoke often of her Mother, a former South Korean Amateur Champion, as the competitive driving force in her early life, with  her Father being the "softer" of the two. 
 

It came as no surprise to Madison or I when Michelle won her first Major two years later, the US Open, THE Major to win for an American Female Pro if they win only one(or a Male Pro for that matter, though I'd take the Masters cuz of the annual

dinner, and yah, I'd have Mexican ), nor when she got married and had a Beautiful lil Girl👧🏼. Michelle has had the same type of physical setbacks as Tiger, minus the car wreck, and if she can regain her health and stay healthy, I see no reason why she can't add to her 5 LPGA Championships or 1 Major.  
 

However, if she does not and she never wins another Tourney, Michelle is happy and at peace with herself, something that I believe that Tiger has had an issue with and chased his entire life, and I'm not convinced that he's caught it and is at peace, though he has been force fed a few very large negative doses of reality. 
 

I think that Michelle's mind set, while it ain't Tiger's, though really, who's is or ever was?

 

Jack and maybe Hogan(That's a big maybe though his comeback from the wreck was impressive)?

 

While Michelle didn't approach Tiger's record as a Pro, she did win 5 LPGA Tourneys along with 1 Major, plus she was one of the Premier American Players🇺🇸 for over a decade, Playin on a decades' worth of Solheim Cups(5) along with being chosen as an Asst. Captain for the upcoming Cup(It's yet to be determined if she'll be a Playing Asst).

 

I think that if ya had Tiger at one end of the scale, the young Phenom who lived up to the hype, and then say, Fast Eddie Pierce on the other end of the scale, the Am Phenom who SI anointed as the "next Jack," who wilted like a rose🥀 in the Arizona summer heat,  Michelle would probably be somewhere in the middle. While she may not have lived up to the hype, very very very few ever do, however she won a few including a Major, has a life time's worth of memories and a few lifetimes worth of friends and acquaintances, including her life-mate,along with having a gorgeous lil child,  and at the end of every day, she is cool with the Gal lookin back at her in the mirror🪞 

 

The icing on the cake for me is that friggin turn with the square hips, lolol

 

Three Bills💵💵💵 Bros😂😂🤙

 

And a smile that could melt frozen butter😜!!

 

Stay Well Brotha👊
RP
 

 

Awesome post about one of the most maligned pros in recent history….and name dropping an Eddie Pearce in there as well? I seem to remember a story, in SI I think it was about 50 years ago(or was it just 40) about this phenom so good he was as I recall ripping drivers out of fairway bunkers.  And then he just never was and didn’t reach the hype.  Michelle didn’t either but unlike Tiger I don’t  recall her family: ever making the boasts but it was the media that went overboard with an assist from Els and the Big Wiesy comments.  But her early career showed the hype was earned but for some reason she just never seemed to get the train moving on the way to hitting career goals.

  Was it injuries?  Hype and or Nike money pressures?  Who the heck knows.  I’m glad to hear she is content with her place in the story of golf even if she may yet achieve more.