Scoring

[MikekiM]

At what age does the stroke shaving and cheating stop?

Kid shaved off at least 4 strokes during a tournament this weekend because the kid that was keeping his score was too busy shooting over 102 to bother really keeping an eye on his marker. 

I partially want to blame the tournament for this. At this event only 1 person keeps your score, so naturally when my son brought up one discrepancy the kid had the nerve to say "he's keeping my score, not you". At our usual tournaments all kids playing keep everyone's score, so everyone knows whats going on.

 

Kid apparently won a tournament earlier this year and managed to eek out a 2nd place in this tournament, but should have finished 6th.

I was keeping score, and later saw 4 holes that were different from what I had.  I even missed 3 holes.

My son said he didn't want to play in that tour anymore because of the cheating, and the kid shooting over 100 arguing with him about rules. Such a shame these tours can't clean this stuff up.

 

.

 

 

[heavy_hitter]

The answer, unfortunately, is never.  Some tours better than others.

[tiger1873]

1 hour ago, MikekiM said:

At what age does the stroke shaving and cheating stop?

Kid shaved off at least 4 strokes during a tournament this weekend because the kid that was keeping his score was too busy shooting over 102 to bother really keeping an eye on his marker. 

I partially want to blame the tournament for this. At this event only 1 person keeps your score, so naturally when my son brought up one discrepancy the kid had the nerve to say "he's keeping my score, not you". At our usual tournaments all kids playing keep everyone's score, so everyone knows whats going on.

 

Kid apparently won a tournament earlier this year and managed to eek out a 2nd place in this tournament, but should have finished 6th.

I was keeping score, and later saw 4 holes that were different from what I had.  I even missed 3 holes.

My son said he didn't want to play in that tour anymore because of the cheating, and the kid shooting over 100 arguing with him about rules. Such a shame these tours can't clean this stuff up.

 

.

 

 

 

What you see happens more than any one wants to admit.

 

When you start to see this sort of thing it's an indication you need to move on to better tournaments.  The higher up you go the less and less that saving strokes goes on because the other kids are not going to let them get away with blatant cheating.  Low end tours just care about numbers not quality.

 

It helps if you are doing tournaments where everyone doesn't know each other.  The ones who cheat never get better and if they do lie I've seen them get in over their head in tournaments. It's pretty easy to spot them too once you figure it out.

 

Just keep on plugging away and moving up people will recognize you getting better.

 

 

 

 

[wildcatden]

Bottom line is that "keeping score of your competitor" is another skill your junior will have to learn.  In events where I have caddied (ex: USKG), I have simply corrected any "errors" before we tee off at the next hole. If we can't agree, I just write down the score I counted for them and they can sort it at the scoring table.  The cheater may still "win" at the scoring table, but it sends a message.  I like to believe that most of the time it is just an honest mistake. But there are those that get a reputation.

[heavy_hitter]

18 minutes ago, wildcatden said:

Bottom line is that "keeping score of your competitor" is another skill your junior will have to learn.  In events where I have caddied (ex: USKG), I have simply corrected any "errors" before we tee off at the next hole. If we can't agree, I just write down the score I counted for them and they can sort it at the scoring table.  The cheater may still "win" at the scoring table, but it sends a message.  I like to believe that most of the time it is just an honest mistake. But there are those that get a reputation.

 

Outside of USKG, the parents are not to say a word and often have separate rooms for scoring to keep parents out. 

 

 Only time I ever said a word to a director after a round was due to a DQ.  I asked if I could say something because the kids didn't want to repeat the words that were said.  It involved a 15 year old and his grandmother F bombing each other, another player being called an Fing Qu#$%, a thrown club, a thrown rake, and the grandmother leaving the premises so the kid would have to walk several miles to the hotel.  Yes, it did happen and I am still in awe of the scenario today.  Parents, other players, and kids just stared with our jaws on the ground.  Director was the same way.  We would see each other at different events and get a chuckle over it.

Edited February 8, 2022 by heavy_hitter

[Movingday]

13 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

Outside of USKG, the parents are not to say a word and often have separate rooms for scoring to keep parents out. 

 

 Only time I ever said a word to a director after a round was due to a DQ.  I asked if I could say something because the kids didn't want to repeat the words that were said.  It involved a 15 year old and his grandmother F bombing each other, another player being called an Fing Qu#$%, a thrown club, a thrown rake, and the grandmother leaving the premises so the kid would have to walk several miles to the hotel.  Yes, it did happen and I am still in awe of the scenario today.  Parents, other players, and kids just stared with our jaws on the ground.  Director was the same way.  We would see each other at different events and get a chuckle over it.

That’s a good time right there! 

[jj9000]

1 hour ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

Outside of USKG, the parents are not to say a word and often have separate rooms for scoring to keep parents out. 

 

 Only time I ever said a word to a director after a round was due to a DQ.  I asked if I could say something because the kids didn't want to repeat the words that were said.  It involved a 15 year old and his grandmother F bombing each other, another player being called an Fing Qu#$%, a thrown club, a thrown rake, and the grandmother leaving the premises so the kid would have to walk several miles to the hotel.  Yes, it did happen and I am still in awe of the scenario today.  Parents, other players, and kids just stared with our jaws on the ground.  Director was the same way.  We would see each other at different events and get a chuckle over it.

 

To be fair...my mother and my son got off on the wrong foot that day...at breakfast.

 

He should have never thrown the club...and she should have never thrown the rake...he was very sorry once he arrived at the hotel.

[Movingday]

24 minutes ago, jj9000 said:

 

To be fair...my mother and my son got off on the wrong foot that day...at breakfast.

 

He should have never thrown the club...and she should have never thrown the rake...he was very sorry once he arrived at the hotel.

It’s been an entertaining day, and you sir, are the winner!

[tiger1873]

Some these kids never understand that if you cheat everyone talks about them.

 

There is a girl that plays in Florida a lot must be the biggest cheater there is.  We were playing in NC and a girl ask my daughter are the rumors true about this girl. 

 

 

pretty bad when people talk about someone multiple states away.  No wants to be paired with this girl either.  She isn’t a horrible player.  In this case the problem is the mother she clearly has issues and taught he kid the same ethics.

 

Locally this girl does well but every time they play an AJGA it’s a disaster.  It obvious she can’t get away with shaving a few strokes there.   At the end of the day there wasting money to travel to ajga events they have no business being in.  Even worse this kid isn’t working on things to improve so they can do well in the tournaments that matter.

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by tiger1873

[kekoa]

I think the only way for a kid to stop cheating is for the tour to take action.  By this, I mean if there is one complaint then give the kid a warning and put the child and parents on notice.  2nd complaint then ban the kid from ever playing the tour.  In events where we witnessed cheating the directors just say they will note it, but nothing is ever done.  They just keep playing tournaments and mixing up tours and events a bit.   There are a few notorious cheaters here in socal that everyone knows about and they are still allowed to play tournaments, which is beyond me.    

[heavy_hitter]

9 hours ago, kekoa said:

I think the only way for a kid to stop cheating is for the tour to take action.  By this, I mean if there is one complaint then give the kid a warning and put the child and parents on notice.  2nd complaint then ban the kid from ever playing the tour.  In events where we witnessed cheating the directors just say they will note it, but nothing is ever done.  They just keep playing tournaments and mixing up tours and events a bit.   There are a few notorious cheaters here in socal that everyone knows about and they are still allowed to play tournaments, which is beyond me.    

 

There are notorious cheaters everywhere that everyone knows about.  Just like their are kids with sketchy course etiquette purposely done to throw other players off.  Walking through lines, making noises in the bag, etc.  There is a 2025 female in South Florida whose mother is a PGA professional that is notorious for these types of actions.  I am not even in the world of female golf anymore and I have heard about from people even across state lines.  Friend from another state "have you heard about so and so in South Florida?  She does this and that."  Yep, have heard of it and the kids in south Florida are aware of it as well. 

[tiger1873]

42 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

There are notorious cheaters everywhere that everyone knows about.  Just like their are kids with sketchy course etiquette purposely done to throw other players off.  Walking through lines, making noises in the bag, etc.  There is a 2025 female in South Florida whose mother is a PGA professional that is notorious for these types of actions.  I am not even in the world of female golf anymore and I have heard about from people even across state lines.  Friend from another state "have you heard about so and so in South Florida?  She does this and that."  Yep, have heard of it and the kids in south Florida are aware of it as well. 

 

 

Yep this is same girl I was talking about.  Just crazy they even allow her to play and never DQ her. Her mom runs a local academy.  Most the parents who take lessons are parents who are new to golf.  The kids she teaches are also not the best playing partners.

 

It's so bad that everyone including my daughter just don't argue anymore because they will make such a scene it will ruin your score you just have to move on and not play where they play. 

[darter79]

1 hour ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

There are notorious cheaters everywhere that everyone knows about.  Just like their are kids with sketchy course etiquette purposely done to throw other players off.  Walking through lines, making noises in the bag, etc.  There is a 2025 female in South Florida whose mother is a PGA professional that is notorious for these types of actions.  I am not even in the world of female golf anymore and I have heard about from people even across state lines.  Friend from another state "have you heard about so and so in South Florida?  She does this and that."  Yep, have heard of it and the kids in south Florida are aware of it as well. 

Money talks bottom line. 

[heavy_hitter]

46 minutes ago, darter79 said:

Money talks bottom line. 

Especially on the female side where they have trouble getting larger fields.

[heavy_hitter]

1 hour ago, tiger1873 said:

 

 

Yep this is same girl I was talking about.  Just crazy they even allow her to play and never DQ her. Her mom runs a local academy.  Most the parents who take lessons are parents who are new to golf.  The kids she teaches are also not the best playing partners.

 

It's so bad that everyone including my daughter just don't argue anymore because they will make such a scene it will ruin your score you just have to move on and not play where they play. 

 

We ran into the kid years ago in a PGA Junior League and since that incident kind of forgot about them.  The kid was obnoxious.  I think most people cower to them, but that isn't me.  Their team lost and their mouths started running.  I let them know about the girl's mouth and lack of etiquette.  She was trying to cheat/make up rules to win.  I stepped up in front of a crowd and blasted the dad and the organization as the mom had already left. After I said what was needed to be said they went on their merry way and never heard of them again.  

 

A couple of years after that someone from another state on these boards asked me "Do you know so and so?".  I just laughed.  Yep, and I am sure they know me but want to forget.

[RmoorePE]

I don't think there is any age where cheaters will stop without being caught. I played in an adult amateur handicapped tournament 2 weeks ago (for shop credit). I traded cards with the guy in my cart, the other cart same thing. I looked at the scores on the website after the round and was shocked to see that they had both beat me by 3 strokes gross. I looked at the cards posted and saw penalty strokes magically disappeared, missed tap ins that went in via pencil, etc.

 

Nice guys, but I sent an email to the TD to let him know they need a bad boy check mark in their file. They actually were vanity cappers who really pose no threat to win any tournaments, and he had heard some stuff about them already.

 

In kids golf I have not really run into it except kids who are going to shoot a 117 saying 8 when they should take 10, and in that case I just tell my kid. "If they are way out of it, and you lost track of all of their strokes, just accept the score and move on." Probably not great advice, but standing on the green doing the count up for a kid who is already struggling is just not productive.

 

In the better tournaments, we have found every kid is pretty good at keeping their competition's score. It is an important skill, but when every kid is getting pars  or bogeys for the most part, it is pretty easy to do.

[tiger1873]

There will always be cheaters out there no doubt.   Girls I think see more issues then boys.  I swear some the stuff I seen out there that goes on with girls would never be tolerated with boys.  With boys if you pull petty stuff like girls I would think they would be jumped in the parking lot.  Instead with girls you have crazy dads and mom's who try and shut you up if you say anything.

 

Traveling and playing bigger tournaments seems to help.  I noticed with AJGA the majority will speak up because they worked too hard to get there.  The better a kid gets the less they respect kids who bend the rules.

 

The key here is to look at playing bigger and more worthwhile tournaments where kids will speak up. The bigger tournaments are getting volunteers again so there are going to be eyeballs out there.

 

If you play a tournament and you do not see officials it's a good indication they don't care and you need to think about a better place to play.

 

 

 

[heavy_hitter]

9 minutes ago, RmoorePE said:

I don't think there is any age where cheaters will stop without being caught. I played in an adult amateur handicapped tournament 2 weeks ago (for shop credit). I traded cards with the guy in my cart, the other cart same thing. I looked at the scores on the website after the round and was shocked to see that they had both beat me by 3 strokes gross. I looked at the cards posted and saw penalty strokes magically disappeared, missed tap ins that went in via pencil, etc.

 

Nice guys, but I sent an email to the TD to let him know they need a bad boy check mark in their file. They actually were vanity cappers who really pose no threat to win any tournaments, and he had heard some stuff about them already.

 

In kids golf I have not really run into it except kids who are going to shoot a 117 saying 8 when they should take 10, and in that case I just tell my kid. "If they are way out of it, and you lost track of all of their strokes, just accept the score and move on." Probably not great advice, but standing on the green doing the count up for a kid who is already struggling is just not productive.

 

In the better tournaments, we have found every kid is pretty good at keeping their competition's score. It is an important skill, but when every kid is getting pars  or bogeys for the most part, it is pretty easy to do.

Played with a kid 4-5 years ago in a local foundation event.  Heck may have been longer.  My boy was 10 or 11 and the other kid 13 or 14.  The other boy wasn't very good, but he tried.  He was there with his mother only at the time and these folks were beach folks.  Other side of the tracks private school wealthy folks.  2nd hole is a par 5 with water near the green and the kid hits it in the pond.  The ball is full covered by water and he decides he is going to take his shoes/socks off and hit the ball.  This is before the rules change and he whacks the water 3 times without striking the ball.  So that is 3 penalty strokes plus the 3 strokes.  I was just observing but near and said "Look.  Right now you are lying 8.  You aren't going to hit it out of the water.  Let's just take a drop, count the penalty stroke like you never attempted to hit it out of the water."  Everyone agreed and he ended up with a 9 on the hole still.  I knew he didn't have a chance of winning anyway.

 

Kids dad shows up around hole 6 and watches the rest of the round.  They had a cart and we were on foot.  We went straight to the scoring table.  We were waiting and waiting and waiting.  15 minutes go by and the director was ready to DQ him.  Here they come driving up.  They had a scorecard from the course with only his scores on it which didn't match up to any of my kids scores.  The card he was given was in the trash can.  I looked at the dad and said "What are you doing?  Those aren't his scores.  My son keeps your sons scores and your son keep his."  The guy gets angry and says "Are you calling us a cheater?  I have never heard of someone else keeping another players scores."  I said "Yes, I am calling you a cheater.  This isn't a hackers scramble.  Every stroke play junior tour you are a marker for another player."  Tour Director is shaking his head.  Steps in and DQ's the kid.

 

Here I tried to be nice, and it comes back to bite me in the butt.

[MWhack]

Unf. we have every week all over the age groups "cheater", some admit some dont, but my daughter played the last 5 events with a girl where I think the scores do not match.
Me and another father now decided we will check with all kids and parents the scores each hole. Its just making everything harder for everyone.

I mean its not just scoring, drop"zone" after water ("this rough is unplayable, we play from the normal rough cause its anyway a penalty"), alignment (staying in line and showing yes or no with the head if she aims good), and being a mowing machine if his daughter is in the deep rough, having mother as second emotional Caddy, it annoys each of us but his daughter is such a nice girl, we dont want to punish her for her fathers behavior, but we have to start cause its getting ridiculous. 

[tiger1873]

3 hours ago, MWhack said:

Unf. we have every week all over the age groups "cheater", some admit some dont, but my daughter played the last 5 events with a girl where I think the scores do not match.
Me and another father now decided we will check with all kids and parents the scores each hole. Its just making everything harder for everyone.

I mean its not just scoring, drop"zone" after water ("this rough is unplayable, we play from the normal rough cause its anyway a penalty"), alignment (staying in line and showing yes or no with the head if she aims good), and being a mowing machine if his daughter is in the deep rough, having mother as second emotional Caddy, it annoys each of us but his daughter is such a nice girl, we dont want to punish her for her fathers behavior, but we have to start cause its getting ridiculous. 

 

sounds like a few playing partners my daughter was with last year.

 

girl hits under a tree. The dad walks over starts to kick at the rough.  Ask him what he is doing????  He finally steps back.

 

Meanwhile last girl in group hits. Ball clearly goes into the bushes in the hazard about 50 yards back from where i am standing. I had a cart so i walk back the cart and suddenly this girls ball is sitting right in front with a perfect lie to the green.

 

It gets better the other dad says the the ball is near a tree to the dad kicking the ball so free drop and tell the girl to walk back until she is clear to green. I said lets get an official but no officials are around.  The only time i ever seen them was teeing off and scoring.   

 

This was one those special tournaments where they put it on once a year.  These girls we played had sub 500 rankings for girls.  I learned why that had such a high ranking that day why they always play as a group together.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by tiger1873

[MWhack]

20 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

 

sounds like a few playing partners my daughter was with last year.

 

girl hits under a tree. The dad walks over starts to kick at the rough.  Ask him what he is doing????  He finally steps back.

 

Meanwhile last girl in group hits. Ball clearly goes into the bushes in the hazard about 50 yards back from where i am standing. I had a cart so i walk back the cart and suddenly this girls ball is sitting right in front with a perfect lie to the green.

 

It gets better the other dad says the the ball is near a tree to the dad kicking the ball so free drop and tell the girl to walk back until she is clear to green. I said lets get an official but no officials are around.  The only time i ever seen them was teeing off and scoring.   

 

This was one those special tournaments where they put it on once a year.  These girls we played had sub 500 rankings for girls.  I learned why that had such a high ranking that day why they always play as a group together.

 

 

 

 

Yeah its not that bad with the father in my group, its more like he thinks he bends the rules a bit but breaks them, i dont even think he knows what he does. Anyway its sad that parents cheat for there children, what do they teach them for the future? I really dont get that... this kids will never achieve anything in their live.

[chisag]

On 2/8/2022 at 10:40 AM, MikekiM said:

At what age does the stroke shaving and cheating stop?

Kid shaved off at least 4 strokes during a tournament this weekend because the kid that was keeping his score was too busy shooting over 102 to bother really keeping an eye on his marker. 

 

 

... Starts with parents and ends with coaches. My best friend coaches in NC and one of his players had hit over a mountain ridge and was down there all alone. Coach was on another hole and could see where his player was and watched him pick up his ball and move it 20 yards so a tree was not in his way. Placed his ball in a perfect lie and hit a good shot back in the fairway. Coach waited til after the round and before he turned in his score he gave the kid a choice. Quit the team or go to the opposing coach and admit to cheating. He chose to quit but his Mom was there and brought him back and thanked the Coach for his form of discipline and the kid apologized to the coach AND his team mates. He turned into one of his most reliable players and later admitted nobody had ever called him on it and he had seen others cheating and just thought it was part of the game.

... A few years later he caught another kid cheating during a practice round and gave him the option of apologizing to his team mates and sitting out the next 5 matches and the kid quit. His parents filed a grievance with the Athletic Director who thankfully backed the Coach 100%. 

[MWhack]

51 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

 

... Starts with parents and ends with coaches. My best friend coaches in NC and one of his players had hit over a mountain ridge and was down there all alone. Coach was on another hole and could see where his player was and watched him pick up his ball and move it 20 yards so a tree was not in his way. Placed his ball in a perfect lie and hit a good shot back in the fairway. Coach waited til after the round and before he turned in his score he gave the kid a choice. Quit the team or go to the opposing coach and admit to cheating. He chose to quit but his Mom was there and brought him back and thanked the Coach for his form of discipline and the kid apologized to the coach AND his team mates. He turned into one of his most reliable players and later admitted nobody had ever called him on it and he had seen others cheating and just thought it was part of the game.

... A few years later he caught another kid cheating during a practice round and gave him the option of apologizing to his team mates and sitting out the next 5 matches and the kid quit. His parents filed a grievance with the Athletic Director who thankfully backed the Coach 100%. 

Great Coach, thats the support kids need, calling them of to take responsibility but giving a second chance to proof they can become better!
Who ever tries to blame the coach is a bad parent in my opinion, but unf. lot of parents seem to care more about scores than developing a good human.

[RmoorePE]

I figure it all shakes out eventually, for kids in the Jr. Tournament world, I mean you can only shave strokes so much around good golfers. Not hard to count to 4. Moving the ball and things like that are the most easily spotted by tournament officials, so that is a dumb maneuver. If your kids are playing in tournaments with very few officials, look for properly run tournaments. Also, take time to teach your kids that officials are there to make it fair, not to punish people. I always make my daughter thank at least one Course official per tournament.  She hates it.

 

I forgot about HS golf teams, I think that is where you see the most cheating. I still remember when I was in school kids using Vaseline on the driver face, and a green life saver in the pocket for preferred lie events. It was pretty funny, and as far as I remember never really helped anyone win. A crappy swing doesn't get fixed by Vaseline.

 

 

[DArnie]

Here's one that happened at a Us kids event about 6 years ago with my oldest son who I was caddying for. He was playing with his main rival in a twosome. My son had just birdied a hole and had the honors and was two strokes up with 6 to play. I stopped to get a drink of water and use the restroom. I walk out and proceed to the tee about 50 yards away as my son was teeing off.

 

When I get there, I hear the other Dad telling my son he had teed off from the wrong tee and must re-tee. I was fuming but didn't say a word or show any emotion as it should be a learning lesson for my son. (Former Class A PGA so I'm pretty well versed on rules). What was upsetting to me was that other player and his Dad allowed him to tee off from the wrong tee without saying a word until the stroke was over. Imo, that is a sad lesson and sportsmanship by the Dad to teach his son just to try and win an US kids event. Wow. Just wow.

 

Good news, my son eventually tied after the completion of the round and birdied the first extra hole for the win. After it was over, I told the Dad in private and respectably that his son shouldn't rub/test the green's grain with his hand while about to putt which his son did on about every hole because it was against the rules. He should know that for any future or bigger tournaments he played as he was a pretty good player.  We could have DQ'd him but why would we? An US kids tournament? No they were just kids(14). I didn't even mention the earlier incident, no use.

 

 

[tiger1873]

As a parent and spectator there are few things you can do that will help keep things up and up.

 

Keep on eye on the parents if you suspect things. If you are close by chances are they can’t drop a ball or move it.

 

don’t count other players strokes that isn’t you job as a spectator. Instead observe your kids ball and keep and eye on the other kids balls.  Keep you distance from both the kids and balls. Better to point 5 -10 feet away then walk up to a ball.  

 

Some kids treat kids bad   if the kids playing get along just hang back and watch close behind.  Most kids behave around adults.

 

If you see a rules violation or it seems like they don’t know a rule speak up and say you will go find an official. 
 

I am sure other stuff helps but this the main ones.

Edited February 11, 2022 by tiger1873

[killer21]

We had a girl creating a lot of drama, worse usually when the mother is involved.  The tournament committee had to follow her/our group for an entire tournament.  She has a reputation now.  Too bad because she is not a bad player. I find when people cheat it's stupid because it's usually an mid 80's shooter turning in a low 80's or high seventies score so doesn't make sense.

 

My other pet peeve is kids not marking their ball in general with a sharpie and it's worse for the cheaters... It's seems that the first Titleist they find in the woods is always their ball.  It never fails. Mark or no mark.  A ball that I swear went in 30 yards back and that same kid comes out of the wood 30 yards up with a Titleist and claims its theirs.  Drives me nuts.😩

[heavy_hitter]

On 2/14/2022 at 10:00 AM, killer21 said:

We had a girl creating a lot of drama, worse usually when the mother is involved.  The tournament committee had to follow her/our group for an entire tournament.  She has a reputation now.  Too bad because she is not a bad player. I find when people cheat it's stupid because it's usually an mid 80's shooter turning in a low 80's or high seventies score so doesn't make sense.

 

My other pet peeve is kids not marking their ball in general with a sharpie and it's worse for the cheaters... It's seems that the first Titleist they find in the woods is always their ball.  It never fails. Mark or no mark.  A ball that I swear went in 30 yards back and that same kid comes out of the wood 30 yards up with a Titleist and claims its theirs.  Drives me nuts.😩

If your ball is unmarked don't you have to take a penalty and rehit?  The ball is considered lost if unmarked.  Am I missing something here?

[mrshinsa]

23 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

If your ball is unmarked don't you have to take a penalty and rehit?  The ball is considered lost if unmarked.  Am I missing something here?

no penalty for not marking the ball.

 

 

[MWhack]

18 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

If your ball is unmarked don't you have to take a penalty and rehit?  The ball is considered lost if unmarked.  Am I missing something here?

Is it really? because my "best friend" never marks, and tbh today he overstepped a line I will not tolerate anymore.
Im way to nice cause dont want to punish his daughter but he stood every shot on the green next to her and let her practice "over the ball, next to the ball" until he said "Stop, thats your tempo for this putt" he was in her down under line at hole 1 as well and told her if she aimed good or not, and after I pointed out he broke again the rules, he argued that my daughter did also 😄 and she didnt hit the ground in the bunker for 100%, she got angry and told him "No I didnt"  and then she missed the putt, I dont blame him for that she should refocus but come on its now getting to a point where I start to take it personal unf. we dont have marshals there and I dont want to call every hole the Lady who organize it cause she has enough trouble parents to care for.
So what can I do if I'm not his marker? I really think about pulling out my daughter from the tournaments cause it starts really to piss of both of us.