Real life experience Rogue ST Max vs Rogue ST Max LS?

[OspreyCI]

24 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

 

Thanks. I play the LS right now, but ball is going too far right on me. And now i'm hitting pull hook as an overcompensation (mostly strengthening grip). I'm not expecting a savior from the Max D, but if it can help correct a few yards, that can be a difference for me of being in a fairway bunker on the rightside vs. not.  

Gotcha. I think you are making a great move going to the D. I bet it will work out perfect. I even play my LS at -1 and I only hit the smallest of cuts. Tells me that your plan should work out great. 

[dmeeksDC]

3 hours ago, dlow206 said:

how did the ls end up working out. Im about to make the switch to the D.

 

anyone else compare max ls vs. D?

I have been rotating these two heads in tryouts for the past few weeks. Really strong drivers. Definitely easier to move the MAX D left. But it’s not a hook machine, it’s simply a heel-weighted driver. Shape is larger, looks more like a Ping. It’s exactly what you expect. Help is noticeable on imperfect swings. I’ve also played the Ping SFT heads and I thought the MAX D performance was similar. 

It is also noticeable that on solid swings the LS is longer and while the results on poor swings aren’t as good, they’re playable and not like other lower-spin heads I have gamed. If your driver swing is solid it’s an amazingly consistent driver. I played Blue Mash in Maryland today with the LS and drove the ball about as well as I can. Deep and in the fairway all day. Played it with a Diamana TB 6S shaft (has been a Tour AD XC) and it felt great and gave me a little more height. My playing partner asked how could I ever take that driver out of my bag. 
 

If I had to call it right now I’d say the MAX D is about as good a draw-enhancing driver as you’ll find but I will most likely stick with the LS for its overall performance. I don’t have any issue hitting fades or draws with it and the shape of it is very appealing. If I was losing the ball right, I’d be very comfortable turning to the MAX D. Best lineup of drivers Callaway has produced IMO. 

[dlow206]

7 minutes ago, dmeeksDC said:

I have been rotating these two heads in tryouts for the past few weeks. Really strong drivers. Definitely easier to move the MAX D left. But it’s not a hook machine, it’s simply a heel-weighted driver. Shape is larger, looks more like a Ping. It’s exactly what you expect. Help is noticeable on imperfect swings. I’ve also played the Ping SFT heads and I thought the MAX D performance was similar. 

It is also noticeable that on solid swings the LS is longer and while the results on poor swings aren’t as good, they’re playable and not like other lower-spin heads I have gamed. If your driver swing is solid it’s an amazingly consistent driver. I played Blue Mash in Maryland today with the LS and drove the ball about as well as I can. Deep and in the fairway all day. Played it with a Diamana TB 6S shaft (has been a Tour AD XC) and it felt great and gave me a little more height. My playing partner asked how could I ever take that driver out of my bag. 
 

If I had to call it right now I’d say the MAX D is about as good a draw-enhancing driver as you’ll find but I will most likely stick with the LS for its overall performance. I don’t have any issue hitting fades or draws with it and the shape of it is very appealing. If I was losing the ball right, I’d be very comfortable turning to the MAX D. Best lineup of drivers Callaway has produced IMO. 

 

Thanks, the Max D sounds like it will help me overall, both on my good shots and not so good shots. Even my good shots, while they may end up on the fairway, the start line comes out right of where im aimed.

 

And on the not so good shots, its a vicious cycle. There are some holes at my home course where missing right is very bad, so thats when the pull hooks come out in compensation for being scared of going right. And after the pull hooks come out, then the overcompensation back the other way. 

 

I also almost never have this issue with my 3 wood, which is the standard Rogue ST Max which has a bit of draw bias, so the draw bias probably helps. 

[dlow206]

Got the Max D and also got an Autoflex again (long story but shouldn't have ever sold it in the first place). 

 

Spent some time with it today for the first time. Took a little while to get used to it during my round and during a range session after my round. After figuring it out, was hitting tight push draws. It was awesome. I did have to weaken my right hand grip a bit (towards neutral). I think my right hand had continued to get more and more under recently to avoid hitting the big right ball. 

 

Trying to figure out what kind of wizardry is going on with this Rogue Max D. I definitely don't normally hit push draws.

[OspreyCI]

2 hours ago, dlow206 said:

Got the Max D and also got an Autoflex again (long story but shouldn't have ever sold it in the first place). 

 

Spent some time with it today for the first time. Took a little while to get used to it during my round and during a range session after my round. After figuring it out, was hitting tight push draws. It was awesome. I did have to weaken my right hand grip a bit (towards neutral). I think my right hand had continued to get more and more under recently to avoid hitting the big right ball. 

 

Trying to figure out what kind of wizardry is going on with this Rogue Max D. I definitely don't normally hit push draws.

Congrats! Who doesn’t love a push draw!!! Told you you would love the Max D head. 

[dlow206]

9 minutes ago, OspreyCI said:

Congrats! Who doesn’t love a push draw!!! Told you you would love the Max D head. 

 

i was thinking it wouldn't help that much after weighing the heel-side weight and it was only 2 grams. but something about this head makes it work. 

[OspreyCI]

20 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

 

i was thinking it wouldn't help that much after weighing the heel-side weight and it was only 2 grams. but something about this head makes it work. 

Right on! Hit some bombs with it! 

[dmeeksDC]

About to try out a Rogue ST Triple Diamond LS in a 9 degree head. I like the shape and size of it and it’s supposed to launch a little higher than the 460cc LS head.

 

Will be comparing it to my LS 10.5 head, which I am swinging well and is giving me nice carry but not as much roll as I’d like. Tis the season to check out drivers but I can’t see going away from one of these Callaways, so I’m more interested in dialing in my best fit in these Rogue LS heads and then just play it. I’m totally sold on these drivers. Did a pit stop with the PXG Gen 5 and it is nice but the Rogue ST LS is so good, I found myself preferring it. I cannot recall a Callaway driver in recent years that felt better at impact. 
 

Was talking about the various Rogue ST heads with a club pro and he said there is almost no forgiveness difference for most players between the LS and the Triple Diamond LS and he thinks a little lower loft and the slightly higher launch could be the ticket. 

Edited November 1, 2022 by dmeeksDC

[Mob]

I have an ST Max (10.5) and an ST Max LS (9) and I am experimenting with both.  I have a natural draw, and quickly found out that the ST Max is draw biased and not a good match for my natural draw.  The 2 together can lead to a hook pretty easily.  I do find the mishits (heel and toe strikes) with the ST Max are better overall than the Max LS.  I am still experimenting with both before deciding which way to go, but I am leaning to the Max LS.  It is much more neutral biased, and gets rid of the hook, unless I make a terrible swing.  I bought a Tour Cog (.75 degrees flat) to see if it makes a difference.  Haven't had a chance to try it yet, and unfortunately, it is the end of the season here in Indy, and I may not get this driver choice dialed in until next season.

[Boognish]

I'm loving my Max LS. Lower spin compared to my previous Epic Speed but still with great forgiveness. Draw bias is there but not too strong. I'm swinging left and hitting low spin fades or straight balls when I catch it slightly toe side with no distance loss.

 

I initially played the Rogue TD LS, and the fade bias of that head was much tougher for me to consistently control.

[GolfingLefty18]

I’m having a hard time getting any carry with the Max LS with any shaft I use. 
Motore X 60x - VTS Black 6X - Tensei AV White. Everything seems to just fall out of the sky and not go anywhere. Swing speed is 112-115. Carry with my old Epic Speed MotoreX is 280-285 and I’m still hitting that combo well, making me have buyers remorse after 2 days. Trying all the loft settings with the LS, occasionally I hit a freak ball with the VTS/Max LS combo and it’ll go 290 but those were 2 out of ALOT of range and on course swings. Help! 

[third-times-a-charm]

2 hours ago, GolfingLefty18 said:

I’m having a hard time getting any carry with the Max LS with any shaft I use. 
Motore X 60x - VTS Black 6X - Tensei AV White. Everything seems to just fall out of the sky and not go anywhere. Swing speed is 112-115. Carry with my old Epic Speed MotoreX is 280-285 and I’m still hitting that combo well, making me have buyers remorse after 2 days. Trying all the loft settings with the LS, occasionally I hit a freak ball with the VTS/Max LS combo and it’ll go 290 but those were 2 out of ALOT of range and on course swings. Help! 

Sounds like its not spinning enough.

[GolfingLefty18]

30 minutes ago, third-times-a-charm said:

Sounds like its not spinning enough.

Sooooo, loft up. Swing up? Cuz the way I’m hitting it makes me want to throw up- for buying it right now. Kept reading how good everyone is hitting them, and I’m losing 20 yards even when centering almost every strike. And that Tensei White XStiff- what the heck is that things problem? That baby is stout and doesn’t want to turn over at all. 

[meh]

I just got rid of my LS. I hated it with a passion. Can see why it would be good for some people,.I'm just not one of those people.

[third-times-a-charm]

5 minutes ago, GolfingLefty18 said:

Sooooo, loft up. Swing up? Cuz the way I’m hitting it makes me want to throw up- for buying it right now. Kept reading how good everyone is hitting them, and I’m losing 20 yards even when centering almost every strike. And that Tensei White XStiff- what the heck is that things problem? That baby is stout and doesn’t want to turn over at all. 

It's an LS head by design so if you were on the edge of usable spin numbers you'll need to make it up elsewhere. Yes the Tensei white is also a low launch and low spin shaft for all intents and it has a soft handle - so if that doesnt work for you get rid of that shaft.

 

I would loft up and try a different shaft that offers you some additional spin.

[dmeeksDC]

1 hour ago, GolfingLefty18 said:

Sooooo, loft up. Swing up? Cuz the way I’m hitting it makes me want to throw up- for buying it right now. Kept reading how good everyone is hitting them, and I’m losing 20 yards even when centering almost every strike. And that Tensei White XStiff- what the heck is that things problem? That baby is stout and doesn’t want to turn over at all. 

What is the standard loft on the head you’re playing? It’s a lowish spin driver, but not among the lowest spinning drivers out there. Sounds like loft is your issue, though shafts can make a difference in launch. I don’t like the Tensei White in a driver. Launches too low. Could seek one with a softer tip or mid-bend. It’s hard to say if that will be enough. I am at 103-104 in a 10.5 LS head (set at 9.5) and I get excellent carry, had a great season with it in the bag. 

[GolfingLefty18]

12 minutes ago, dmeeksDC said:

What is the standard loft on the head you’re playing? It’s a lowish spin driver, but not among the lowest spinning drivers out there. Sounds like loft is your issue, though shafts can make a difference in launch. I don’t like the Tensei White in a driver. Launches too low. Could seek one with a softer tip or mid-bend. It’s hard to say if that will be enough. I am at 103-104 in a 10.5 LS head (set at 9.5) and I get excellent carry, had a great season with it in the bag. 

9*

[dmeeksDC]

35 minutes ago, GolfingLefty18 said:

9*

I would loft up 1 degree and try a mid-launch shaft. 

[bvanlieu]

I game the LS and with some swing changes I have been working on I noticed I am launching it a bit less (solid strikes, good  BS just not quite the carry I am capable of seeing) 

 

Going 1d loft up today for a bit more spin, is a free change...also while not as comfy ball position can help add that 1-2d of launch as well. Its still plenty of carry. 

 

 

 

[dmeeksDC]

3 hours ago, bvanlieu said:

I game the LS and with some swing changes I have been working on I noticed I am launching it a bit less (solid strikes, good  BS just not quite the carry I am capable of seeing) 

 

Going 1d loft up today for a bit more spin, is a free change...also while not as comfy ball position can help add that 1-2d of launch as well. Its still plenty of carry. 

 

 

 

One more thing I will mention that I always do to Callaway heads — I add 4-6 grams of lead tape. Their heads always feel a little light to me. I don’t pay attention to swing weight, I just get the head to 199-200g. Helps my strike pattern. Callaway heads in my experience are usually 192-195g and work better for me weighted more like a Ping. If you add it along the trailing edge it will boost launch. 

[GolfingLefty18]

This thing is flippin’ junk, who wants it? I’m putting everything into it, even with a mid flight shaft and what feels like smoked contact. It just goes no where. It can’t even carry the 270 flag at the range. I put the Epic Speed head back on and I’m bounding right in front of the 295 green. So weird it just falls out of the sky that hard. It doesn’t even roll out that much when it does hit ground. 

[Rbsiedsc]

1 hour ago, GolfingLefty18 said:

This thing is flippin’ junk, who wants it? I’m putting everything into it, even with a mid flight shaft and what feels like smoked contact. It just goes no where. It can’t even carry the 270 flag at the range. I put the Epic Speed head back on and I’m bounding right in front of the 295 green. So weird it just falls out of the sky that hard. It doesn’t even roll out that much when it does hit ground. 

How is face contact? The speed is more of a mid spin head and is more aerodynamic. Are you getting faster Chs with the speed? I presume you are a lefty otherwise I’d inquire. 

[GolfingLefty18]

1 hour ago, Rbsiedsc said:

How is face contact? The speed is more of a mid spin head and is more aerodynamic. Are you getting faster Chs with the speed? I presume you are a lefty otherwise I’d inquire. 

Solid, almost dead center majority of the time. Feels like they’re pounded but flies like a marshmallow with an anchor attached to it. Then the speed takes off like a rocket, hits peak, holds for a little and runs out. 

[GolfingLefty18]

[Rbsiedsc]

3 minutes ago, GolfingLefty18 said:

FYI that’s not dead center. That’s toe side and will lower spin. In the speed, it’s just retaining spin enough to hold it up. 

[GolfingLefty18]

I’ll try it one more time, address it more heel side. They feel solid on strikes-  not that ringing feedback. 

[Rbsiedsc]

Also fwiw, when I hit the st max ls last year, I was hitting it as far or farther than my epic max ls. To me they were comparable with the rouge having a better sound. 

[dmeeksDC]

3 hours ago, GolfingLefty18 said:

That’s the place to hit it for low spinners that fall out of the sky. Too low and too much on the heel. Is the shaft the same length as your other drivers?

[bvanlieu]

16 hours ago, GolfingLefty18 said:

I’ll try it one more time, address it more heel side. They feel solid on strikes-  not that ringing feedback. 

 

Agree with @dmeeksDC, thats a strike pattern that if you don't launch it really high you will be less then impressed.

 

You can find Howards thread on this if you search, he has the graphics that show the line and how it effects spin/speed. You are too low in the toe for optimal high/low. 

 

Here's a shot from my driver, played 36 this weekend hit the ball pretty good. You can see my driver toe has an enormous Vacancy sign on it, majority is middle-ish +/- 5mm along with a few pronounced dimple marks on the heel that had no business finding a fairway yet some of them did....

 

 

Work on that strike, I think you will be happy with the results 🙂 

[GolfingLefty18]

9 hours ago, bvanlieu said:

 

Agree with @dmeeksDC, thats a strike pattern that if you don't launch it really high you will be less then impressed.

 

You can find Howards thread on this if you search, he has the graphics that show the line and how it effects spin/speed. You are too low in the toe for optimal high/low. 

 

Here's a shot from my driver, played 36 this weekend hit the ball pretty good. You can see my driver toe has an enormous Vacancy sign on it, majority is middle-ish +/- 5mm along with a few pronounced dimple marks on the heel that had no business finding a fairway yet some of them did....

 

 

Work on that strike, I think you will be happy with the results 🙂 

Thanks, I’ll try again.