Ping Driver/Woods 2023?

[hammergolf]

13 hours ago, underwater said:

I don't care who plays what  - but there are people in this thread who say that the PING drivers are not pleasing sounding - enough that they won't play them.  And there are some who don't mind the loud "empty coffee can" sound.  And that's fine.  I can only speak to my preferences.

 

 It's such a simple fix for PING and I'm pulling for the company to resolve this - I'm a huge PING fan and I would buy their drivers if they paid a little more attention to acoustics.  The Rapture series, the i20 and i25 drivers all sounded great.  For the last few years I've played iBlades and still play a G425 hybrid.   

 

I was watching this driver shootout and the tester claims "I won't play the PING because of the sound".

 

Good shootout regardless:

 

 

The sound doesn’t bother me too much, but it seems if Ping would address the sound issue they would sell a hell of a lot more because their drivers have always flat out performed. But you are right, it’s a very easy fix.

[underwater]

On 3/14/2022 at 10:20 PM, hammergolf said:

The sound doesn’t bother me too much, but it seems if Ping would address the sound issue they would sell a hell of a lot more because their drivers have always flat out performed. But you are right, it’s a very easy fix.

 

Another thing I've notice is some variation in the sound of different Max drivers.  Some are horrifically echo chambers -  and others have a more of a loud crack with is less offensive.  Unsure if this is simply due to placement of the hotmelt inside or what. (there is hotmelt in each G425 Max, but just a tiny bit to act as rattle stop.  Most mfg are doing a tiny bit now to collect manufacturing specks that might be left around.  TO achieve sound character changes you need a significant amount - 10-12 grams or so.)

Edited March 17, 2022 by underwater

[lekimann]

I just recently changed from Stealth plus to Ping G425. I thought I would hate the sound, but I actually don't mind it. I think in an enclosed space or somewhere with a roof it can sound even louder, but on the course it's not that bad. 

[VanTheMan0519]

I’ve had my 425 Max since august. The sound is getting better. Maybe a break in period?

[GolfTurkey]

14 minutes ago, VanTheMan0519 said:

I’ve had my 425 Max since august. The sound is getting better. Maybe a break in period?

 

More likely hearing loss

[BubbaBallesteros]

By the looks of a their recent trademark "CarbonFly Wrap", they are definitely focusing on sound for the G430. 

[hoselshot82]

2 minutes ago, BubbaBallesteros said:

By the looks of a their recent trademark "CarbonFly Wrap", they are definitely focusing on sound for the G430. 

Where did you see the recent trademark?

[BubbaBallesteros]

3 hours ago, hoselshot82 said:

Where did you see the recent trademark?

Their website and on https://trademark.trademarkia.com/carbonfly-wrap-90740454.html

[Morry]

7 hours ago, BubbaBallesteros said:

By the looks of a their recent trademark "CarbonFly Wrap", they are definitely focusing on sound for the G430. 

add weight to that focus as well...

 

[BubbaBallesteros]

5 hours ago, Morry said:

add weight to that focus as well...

 

I think PING will still have higher than average head weights. They should be able to save some grams from the  carbon crown and redistribute it to the rear of the club to increase MOI. 

 

PING's philosophy has always been to use mass to increase ball speeds and to use this extra mass for MOI benefits. There is a trade off though since increasing mass too much will negatively affect club speed and then you actually start to transfer less momentum to the golf ball. 

[Viper4225]

As long as they get rid of turbulators... love the g425 FW woods.

 

 

[scott406]

Looking at the price of the Glide 4.0 wedges, I hate to see the Price tag on the G430

[capking]

2 hours ago, scott406 said:

Looking at the price of the Glide 4.0 wedges, I hate to see the Price tag on the G430

No doubt, I can’t see them putting a 30% increase on the driver or woods. After bumping them up last year… but you never know

[BubbaBallesteros]

3 hours ago, capking said:

No doubt, I can’t see them putting a 30% increase on the driver or woods. After bumping them up last year… but you never know

Yeah I'm can't believe the price increase on the Glide 4.0s. Here in Canada they increased the price by $65 from the 3.0s. 

 

$30 more than a Vokey SM9 and $70 more than a Cleveland RTX Zipcore, it's gonna be tough sell.

[capking]

1 hour ago, BubbaBallesteros said:

Yeah I'm can't believe the price increase on the Glide 4.0s. Here in Canada they increased the price by $65 from the 3.0s. 

 

$30 more than a Vokey SM9 and $70 more than a Cleveland RTX Zipcore, it's gonna be tough sell.

Yeah $730 for the G425 is enough haha

[Chopper Dave]

How this thread reads.

[stevechooster]

On 3/15/2022 at 7:27 PM, BubbaBallesteros said:

Their website and on https://trademark.trademarkia.com/carbonfly-wrap-90740454.html

 

Interesting... curious to see what Ping debuts down the line. 

[underwater]

10 hours ago, stevechooster said:

 

Interesting... curious to see what Ping debuts down the line. 

 

 

Definitely "down the line".  In Feb of this year PING received a challenge to the "CARBONFLY WRAP" wording from the USTPO.  Basically USTPO are asking if the term has any significance to their actual need..  They have 6mo to respond and they haven't yet.  

 

Actions like this from the USTPO are in place to prevent companies from offensively squatting on all possible trademarks a competitor may try to use.  Not unlike internet domain name squatting.  You need to explain how you intend to use the trademark, or let it go.

 

This should be an easy response, but we aren't going to be playing PING carbon drivers in the summer of 2022.  Companies don't start multi-million dollar manufacturing until they've been awarded the trademark.

Edited March 17, 2022 by underwater

[stevechooster]

27 minutes ago, underwater said:

 

 

Definitely "down the line".  In Feb of this year PING received a challenge to the "CARBONFLY WRAP" wording from the USTPO.  Basically USTPO are asking if the term has any significance to their actual need..  They have 6mo to respond and they haven't yet.  

 

Actions like this from the USTPO are in place to prevent companies from offensively squatting on all possible trademarks a competitor may try to use.  Not unlike internet domain name squatting.  You need to explain how you intend to use the patent, or let it go.

 

This should be an easy response, but we aren't going to be playing PING carbon drivers in the summer of 2022.  Companies don't start multi-million dollar manufacturing until they've been awarded the patent.

 

Interesting... I don't know much about the patent process so thx for the insight. 

 

[BlkNGld]

38 minutes ago, underwater said:

Companies don't start multi-million dollar manufacturing until they've been awarded the patent.

 

Disagree.   Easiest way to see that is the "Patent Pending" moniker attached to some products.

 

Obviously things can vary depending on resources and industry, but generally even before a patent is submitted attorneys will work with inventors on a prior art search to find what out there is similar and discuss what new innovation is being brought to the table.   This makes for a stronger patent that reduces the chance of litigation.   Of course, it might also identify an infringement that requires tweaking of the original design and/or a licensing agreement with the prior art owner.

 

As long as the prior art search hasn't turned up any red flags, my experience is that it will be full steam ahead for bringing the product to market.   That is just as important as one of the criteria often brought up in challenges is whether and when the concept was ever built, demonstrated, or implemented (to your point of preventing 'squatting').

 

I've been through the patent process as well as been on both sides of the challenge process.    Although my patent applications were always submitted before the final product was introduced, it was often years before the USPTO actually issued the patent.   And in some countries it can take even longer.

[underwater]

2 hours ago, BlkNGld said:

 

Disagree.   Easiest way to see that is the "Patent Pending" moniker attached to some products.

 

Obviously things can vary depending on resources and industry, but generally even before a patent is submitted attorneys will work with inventors on a prior art search to find what out there is similar and discuss what new innovation is being brought to the table.   This makes for a stronger patent that reduces the chance of litigation.   Of course, it might also identify an infringement that requires tweaking of the original design and/or a licensing agreement with the prior art owner.

 

As long as the prior art search hasn't turned up any red flags, my experience is that it will be full steam ahead for bringing the product to market.   That is just as important as one of the criteria often brought up in challenges is whether and when the concept was ever built, demonstrated, or implemented (to your point of preventing 'squatting').

 

I've been through the patent process as well as been on both sides of the challenge process.    Although my patent applications were always submitted before the final product was introduced, it was often years before the USPTO actually issued the patent.   And in some countries it can take even longer.

 

I think I sent us into confusion by accidentally using the word "patent" instead of "trademark" in one of my sentences.  My bad.  I think this is more of a trademark naming convention like "Stealth" than a patent, which is an idea for a product or technology.  (easy to do when doing lookups at the "PATENT and TRADEMARK office website).

 

For our situation, PING isn't going to stamp a bunch of driver heads or literature and marketing material with the word "CARBONFLY" until all trademark challenges have been resolved.  That Patent Pending isn't this.  (patent pending is a strategy used by businesses or people who have started the patent ownership process, to dissuade copycats, as you already know.)

 

Trademarks are in limbo and subsequent to challenges for typically 6mo prior to the grant.  If a trademark is in dispute for any number of reasons, such as "already exists" and owned by another company, and you flood the market with your product with the trademark marked on the product, and you get your trademark denied, you are in violation.

 

That's why the trademark process exists.  Now I understand that this challenge is by the USTPO themselves, and not a competitor - so more likely than not, the trademark will be awarded after clarity has been provided.  There are no other challenges in the file.  But I still find it highly unlikely this driver is being mass produced in CHINA as we speak.

 

I could be wrong, I've been wrong before.  Ask my ex-wife - she'll tell you all about it.

 

Edited March 17, 2022 by underwater

[hammergolf]

On 3/16/2022 at 1:18 AM, Morry said:

add weight to that focus as well...

 

I heard they are actually going to use an even heavier head… Around 220 grams…. Just kidding! 😉

[Hoyoymac]

Been gaming the Ping G410 LST since it debuted.  It replaced my G30 LST.  

 

The G30 LST was a great performer and it was very loud.  The G410 LST is quieter and performs a little better.

 

Went for a driver fitting this past December and the G425 LST did not look, feel or sound as good as the G410 LST for me, nor did it perform any better.

 

Have a driver fitting on Wednesday and the Cobra LTDX LS is something I’m very interested in trying.  

[s515_15]

spring 2023 is the new driver from what i've heard

[Strategery]

On 3/17/2022 at 3:40 PM, hammergolf said:

I heard they are actually going to use an even heavier head

[Morry]

On 3/21/2022 at 9:58 PM, s515_15 said:

spring 2023 is the new driver from what i've heard

I foresee huge redemption after a mixed 425 driver reception 

 

still gaming the 410+...although the LTDx is edging it out currently...

 

 

[FletchJoy]

On 3/15/2022 at 2:45 PM, underwater said:

 

Another thing I've notice is some variation in the sound of different Max drivers.  Some are horrifically echo chambers -  and others have a more of a loud crack with is less offensive.  Unsure if this is simply due to placement of the hotmelt inside or what. (there is hotmelt in each G425 Max, but just a tiny bit to act as rattle stop.  Most mfg are doing a tiny bit now to collect manufacturing specks that might be left around.  TO achieve sound character changes you need a significant amount - 10-12 grams or so.)

Tour Truck uses about 4-5 grams to mute sound. I think they add a little to the sole and a little to the crown if I'm not mistaken. 

[Morry]

Key will be maintaining neutral bias in the max/plus head 

let the user adjust the bias as needed - we are best to make that determination 

don't make me buy the low spin model to get neutral bias like most other OEMs do...

I happen to like and need spin - I can use a ball and shaft to again alter that as I see fit

 

Eagerly anticipating this release!

 

 

 

 

[m_w]

16 hours ago, Morry said:

Key will be maintaining neutral bias in the max/plus head 

let the user adjust the bias as needed - we are best to make that determination 

don't make me buy the low spin model to get neutral bias like most other OEMs do...

I happen to like and need spin - I can use a ball and shaft to again alter that as I see fit

 

Eagerly anticipating this release!

 

 

 

 

I think you are kinda forgetting that Ping designs drivers for the masses (as does every OEM), they don't design drivers for GolfWRX users who swap shafts, hot melt heads, play with adapter settings and so on...so Ping, as will every OEM, will look at data that tells them what a specific audience is going to need. My guess is that the data tells them that the majority of folks that buy the high-MOI model need a slight draw bias, like this and that shape etc..

 

My guess is that you will be disappointed in the release if those are your actual expectations.

[Hoyoymac]

Had my driver fitting this past Wednesday and tried the Cobra LTDX LS driver to possibly replace my Ping G410 LST.

 

Was hitting my driver very well to start as the baseline.  Piping them right down the middle.  Best swing speed and ball speed in the last five years!

 

First tried the Cobra with the HZRDUS RDX Blue shaft and could not feel the head at all.  The counter balanced shaft brought the swing weight down to C9.  My Ping is D8.

 

After changing shafts, adding weight to the head to bring it to D6 and adjusting the hosel settings I found my best fit with the Cobra LTDX LS 9.0 head set at +1.0 with the Project X iM10 6.0 60 gram shaft.

 

Swing speed averages were the same for both driver at 103 MPH.  My best swing speeds in my December fitting were right at 100 MPH.

 

The Cobra was spinning a little bit less, was a bit more efficient, launch and trajectory about the same.  The result: 5 yards more carry, 10 yards more total distance.  Dispersion very tight.

 

The Mitsubishi Tensei AV Raw White shaft was very close, felt very stable, just not quite as long.

 

The Matte Black head looked very much like the Ping head.  Sound and feel were very nice too, more preferable than the G425 LST that I tried in December.

 

Put my order in for the Cobra driver to replace my trusty Ping but will keep the G410 LST as a backup because it has been very reliable.