DG S400 Tour issue - Are they similar to S300?

[Jjones519a]

Hello

I Am ordering a set of 770s.  Usually a s300 player but they don't have s300 for at least a month.

They offer TI S400 instead and are avail immediately.

What exactly are the Tour Issue S400? I heard they are s300 with a fancy shaft band...

Do they play the same? Are they that much heavier? Do they feel the same?

 

I am a somewhat low spin guy and S300 are borderline what I can play spin wise so I need to know if these spin that much less.

 

Thanks!

 

 

[Tupperwolf]

Tour Issue just means that True Temper takes the time to sort S300 shafts by weight.  Because they can very by a couple of grams due to manufacturing tolerances they weight sort the regular S300 shafts and sell them as Tour Issue S200 (slightly lighter), S300 (on spec for S300) and S400 (slightly heavier).  I wouldn't be able to give info on how differently they would play but I'm sure someone else can chime in.

[t4t3r]

Slightly different, stiffer profile, but S400 is quite a bit heavier (heavier than x100). Dynamic Gold Tour Issue denotes that shafts are weight sorted to a 0.5g tolerance if I'm not mistaken.

 

Would not recommend going with S400 instead based on your post.

 

Edit: I checked the geometry diagram from DG and it looks like it is the same for S300 and S400, with x100 being different. I've played all of them and the weight of S400 is extremely noticeable, so I still wouldn't suggest it as a replacement. You could get something that is available with no upcharge to pull and sell - S300 is probably the most common shaft ever made so there are a billion sets out there.

Edited March 22, 2022 by t4t3r

[Nard_S]

They are only 2 grams heavier than S300, not sure why but I like them a lot more than S300. It's  a great shaft, I don't think you would be disappointed. DG's are not low spin, they are low launch and high spin, so not sure about how things are fit here for you.

[rollen]

I have been testing some shafts lately, trying to decide if I want to change from my X-100 Soft Stepped to something a bit lighter and weaker in flex.  I have been using X-100 SSx1 in Titleist CBs, and DG X100 SSx2 in Bridgestone J38s.  There is a noticeable difference to me.  C-Taper S were the first attempt, but were too soft. Good distance and trajectory, but too many left misses.  Next,  I tried S-300 AMT White. They were a bit too soft, but Hard Stepping them is what I ultimately went with.  During the process I tried S-400 AMT White shafts. The S-400 felt heavy.  However it was the most consistent trajectory and distance was still good. They seemed to be the most consistent in both distance and trajectory, but required a few swings to get the tempo right.  After pausing for a while, the first swing with the S-400 was not a natural fit for me,  I thought the S-400s played more like X100 straight in versus S-300. This is going off of a sample size of one set of S-400s. I had multiple clubs (makes and models) with S-300 during the test.

[aenemated]

I was firmly S300 or S400 for decades - was never too picky about one or the other when buying in the past. 

 

S400s are a little heavier but I personally never noticed any real performance difference. 

Edited March 22, 2022 by aenemated

[BirdieBob]

DG Shafts

 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by BirdieBob

[dokex]

I doubt if anyone on this board can tell the difference in 2 grams of shaft weight.

[rollen]

I would have thought the same thing until I hit the S-400's.  Whether or not you can feel it, there is definitely a difference.  Otherwise, they would all have the same designation

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by rollen

[t4t3r]

Just now, rollen said:

I would have thought the same thing until I hit the S-400's.  Whether or not you can feel it, there is definitely a difference.  Otherwise, they would all have the same designation

 

 

Exactly, I am in the same boat and I wouldn't have expected it either based on paper specs. Some people won't notice a difference but many will.

 

Howard has a good post comparing the two here and also talking about how the weight difference translates to CPM measurements which does affect the stiffness: 

 

[Anser3]

I know when Golfsmith used to list shaft Recommended Swing Speed Ratings (RSSR), they always placed the s400 right in the middle of the s300 and x100, mainly due to the slightly extra weight. DG s300 were 80-90.  X100's were 85-95.  The s400 was 82-92.

[dokex]

On a blind test with identically prepared clubs (other than the shafts), I would bet that no one here could discern a difference.

[MichMan123]

43 minutes ago, aenemated said:

I was firmly S300 or S400 for decades - was never too picky about one or the other when buying in the past. 

 

S400s are a little heavier but I personally never noticed any real performance difference. 

'

same - love them both the same.

 

[Nard_S]

I have S100, S200, S300 & S400. Have last two in both parallel and taper tip. I can tell. Statically and in swing.There's something about the launch and dispersion of S400 that I trust more. Best of breed imo.

[dokex]

1 minute ago, Nard_S said:

I have S100, S200, S300 & S400. Have last two in both parallel and taper tip. I can tell. Statically and in swing.There's something about the launch and dispersion of S400 that I trust more. Best of breed imo.

I would challenge you to take a blind test, where you do not know which shaft is which.

[Nard_S]

Just now, dokex said:

I would challenge you to take a blind test, where you do not know which shaft is which.

 Apparently TT did not get your bullet points and they feel there's reason offer up a designation. S400 has a higher FCM, basically it's hard stepping S300, so there's a legit fitting reason. Also humans can sense 2 grams, not miraculous to do so. If you say it can't be done, your speaking for yourself alone.

[Seamus_McDuff]

If I was the OP and absolutely didn’t want to wait for the S300, I would get the S400 soft stepped. 

[Nessism]

41 minutes ago, Seamus_McDuff said:

If I was the OP and absolutely didn’t want to wait for the S300, I would get the S400 soft stepped. 

 

I'd throw down money that with a blind hitting test that less than 10% of people could tell the difference between S300 and S400.  According to Howard Jones the extra weight of S400 will roughly equal stepping 1X, so given that, I think your suggestion is a good one.

[Strategery]

DG120 S300 and DG120 TI S400 are the same shaft. True Temper just manually sorts the TI shafts by weight to achieve a tighter tolerance. It's marketing fluff.

[Nard_S]

19 minutes ago, Nessism said:

'd throw down money that with a blind hitting test that less than 10% of people could tell the difference between S300 and S400. 

Take that bet. At one point I could designate a SW by casually holding the club.

[MichMan123]

1 hour ago, Strategery said:

DG120 S300 and DG120 TI S400 are the same shaft. True Temper just manually sorts the TI shafts by weight to achieve a tighter tolerance. It's marketing fluff.

 

120 Seems to have different steps and looks different.  Maybe I'm wrong.  S300 and S400 like identical other than cool shaft band

 

[Pepperturbo]

TT DG Tour Issue S400 are properly weight sorted #1 in tolerance.  The difference is standard S300 is 130g and S400 is 134g.  There's a slight weight difference between standard S400 Parallel and Taper Tip, think its a gram or 2. 

 

Tour Issue Taper Tip S400 is 132g slightly heavier.  Interesting X100 is 130g.  Tour Issue DG 120 S400 is 118g only in Taper Tip.

 

I am having DG Tour Issue 120 S400 put in my wedges.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Pepperturbo

[Jjones519a]

1 hour ago, Pepperturbo said:

TT DG Tour Issue S400 are properly weight sorted #1 in tolerance.  The difference is standard S300 is 130g and S400 is 134g.  There's a slight weight difference between standard S400 Parallel and Taper Tip, think its a gram or 2. 

 

Tour Issue Taper Tip S400 is 132g slightly heavier.  Interesting X100 is 130g.  Tour Issue DG 120 S400 is 118g only in Taper Tip.

 

I am having DG Tour Issue 120 S400 put in my wedges.

 

thank you great explanation

 

 

[Strategery]

1 hour ago, Pepperturbo said:

TT DG Tour Issue S400 are properly weight sorted #1 in tolerance.  The difference is standard S300 is 130g and S400 is 134g.  There's a slight weight difference between standard S400 Parallel and Taper Tip, think its a gram or 2. 

 

Tour Issue Taper Tip S400 is 132g slightly heavier.  Interesting X100 is 130g.  Tour Issue DG 120 S400 is 118g only in Taper Tip.

 

I am having DG Tour Issue 120 S400 put in my wedges.

 

https://www.truetempersports.com/en-ca/golf/golf/steel-iron-shafts/dynamic-gold-steel-shafts.html

 

DG: S300 != S400 != TI S400.

 

DG 120: S300 = TI S400.

[Nessism]

3 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

TT DG Tour Issue S400 are properly weight sorted #1 in tolerance.  The difference is standard S300 is 130g and S400 is 134g.  There's a slight weight difference between standard S400 Parallel and Taper Tip, think its a gram or 2. 

 

Tour Issue Taper Tip S400 is 132g slightly heavier.  Interesting X100 is 130g.  Tour Issue DG 120 S400 is 118g only in Taper Tip.

 

I am having DG Tour Issue 120 S400 put in my wedges.

 

The difference between S300 and S400 is two grams.  Almost nothing.  The parallel tip version has more variation is weight, but this thread isn't about those.

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by Nessism

[Cwebb]

5 hours ago, Nard_S said:

 Apparently TT did not get your bullet points and they feel there's reason offer up a designation. S400 has a higher FCM, basically it's hard stepping S300, so there's a legit fitting reason. Also humans can sense 2 grams, not miraculous to do so. If you say it can't be done, your speaking for yourself alone.

 

The reason is so clubs can be matched as close as possible from club to club within a set....and from set to set.  So that for example, your Pw doesn't happen to be 128g while your 8 iron is a 132g. 

 

It's not because True Temper believes that many players can blindly tell the difference between two nearly identical clubs with the only difference being 2g of shaft weight

[Nard_S]

8 minutes ago, Cwebb said:

 

The reason is so clubs can be matched as close as possible from club to club within a set....and from set to set.  So that for example, your Pw doesn't happen to be 128g while your 8 iron is a 132g. 

 

It's not because True Temper believes that many players can blindly tell the difference between two nearly identical clubs with the only difference being 2g of shaft weight

 So you're saying they match weight, add a pointless task in their process to avoid a problem no one can detect. Got it.

[Cwebb]

1 hour ago, Nard_S said:

 So you're saying they match weight, add a pointless task in their process to avoid a problem no one can detect. Got it.

 

There can be difference between doing everything possible to keep tolerances and build specs as tight as possible....vs what a player would be able to notice in a blind test and/or a different shot result.

 

Back in the day before factory weight sorting, when they just had the "Dynamic" shaft without the "Gold" name added for the tighter tolerance, you could potentially end up with a set with shafts anywhere from 126g to 134g mixed through the set.   When they first introduced the "Gold" weight sorting they had S100 and S500 as well, because they still had a wider tolerance coming off the manufacturing line.

 

Not exactly the same as whether a player can blindly notice the difference in whole sets or two clubs that have tight tolerances and build specs, with the only difference being 2g of shaft weight

[Nessism]

1 hour ago, Nard_S said:

 So you're saying they match weight, add a pointless task in their process to avoid a problem no one can detect. Got it.

 

The weight sorting is in part a money grab in my view.  I remember the Dynamic days too, and the price difference between those and Gold was almost 50%.  It takes about 10 seconds to weigh a shaft and toss it into a bin, so the cost increase was in no way justified.  Now we have the Tour weight sorted version and it's even more ridiculous. 

[Strategery]

27 minutes ago, Nessism said:

 

The weight sorting is in part a money grab in my view.  I remember the Dynamic days too, and the price difference between those and Gold was almost 50%.  It takes about 10 seconds to weigh a shaft and toss it into a bin, so the cost increase was in no way justified.  Now we have the Tour weight sorted version and it's even more ridiculous. 

 

Kicking myself that I paid for it. What a total rip-off.