Private clubs & cart fees

[jibbs1082]

Anything more annoying than per-round cart fees at private clubs? The nickel and diming is so tacky, out of principal

 

Just charge a flat maintenance fee to everyone or hide it in the annuals. Clearly clubs want people to use carts/dine etc.... they don't want people to show up walk 9 and leave. 

 

Just venting.... will never understand it. 

[Pepperturbo]

At my last two private clubs I was on the BODs.  We charged cart fees to those that used club carts and the revenue went to the head Pro and staff.  Those fees were over and above monthly dues too.  We also charged an annual cart for those of us that had our own carts.  That hit our accounts in Jan, one lump sum typically $700.

 

Running a P&L of a pvt 5M-20M club is no easy task.  It's pretty similar to running a 175M company, only what makes it more difficult is how it's registered with the State & IRS.  But unless you've been running a sizeable company P&L it's always going to appear odd from the side lines.

 

We couldn't just wash dept ink to convenience members.  Each aspect of the club had an operating budget, payroll, etc.  The only manipulation room was when one dept was running in Red ink, we could pull profits from a profitable dept, such as the Bar, to balance the sheet.

 

 

Edited March 23, 2022 by Pepperturbo

[JJFWebster]

I pay an annual fee above and beyond my dues. It's easy revenue for the club and those that don't want the extra expense can avoid it. Clubs run close to budget and require these types of fees to operate. If they didn't charge for carts, dues would go up for everyone. Then you would have complaints from walkers having to subsidize riders.

 

If your club publishes EOY financials I highly suggest you look them over.

[Abh159]

1 hour ago, jibbs1082 said:

Anything more annoying than per-round cart fees at private clubs? The nickel and diming is so tacky, out of principal

 

Just charge a flat maintenance fee to everyone or hide it in the annuals. Clearly clubs want people to use carts/dine etc.... they don't want people to show up walk 9 and leave. 

 

Just venting.... will never understand it. 

 

Maybe this is just YOUR club? Sure, all places would prefer if you spent more money, but every private club I've ever belonged too has had absolutely no issues with someone just wanting to walk 9 holes. Or walk 18 holes. Or walk 3 holes. That's sort of the point of being a member at a private club... 

 

Every private club I've ever belonged too has charged a cart fee if you ride. Also, all of them have offered an annual cart plan that those who rode a lot would opt into since it made financial sense for them. 

 

Personally, as someone who walks 50% of the time I prefer they have an additional fee to use a cart. In my mind it doesn't make sense to charge all members a cart "maintenance fee" when several of them have never even set foot in a cart. 

Edited March 23, 2022 by Abh159

[david.c.w]

Cart fees are a big part of the revenue calculation for the golf operations.  At the end of the day, the money has to come from somewhere.  If you want you can take the yearly projection, divide by 12, then divide by # of members and tack it on to the monthly dues.  That would be fine with me as I would come out ahead as I play a lot.  But as @Abh159says, those who play twice per year, or who only walk, will not like that proposition.  Same thing for adding $20 the greens fee and offering "free" cart.

 

I don't know of any clubs or courses anywhere that do not have a cart fee, except those who auto add it to the greens fee and don't give a discount for 9 or walkers (which IMO is very few).

 

This is just one of "this is how it works".  There are of course options to change but you cant make everyone happy.  Status quo wins.

 

For the sake of argument, and these are round numbers....

 

$20/cart

20k rounds/year

500 members

 

This would be an additional $66/member/month to cover the yearly cart revenue.  Never going to fly with low usage folks or walkers.

 

If you really want to get in a tizzy, cart fees run at about a 300% margin.... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[klebs01]

If I’m going to have to cover the revenue from cart users I’m going to vote to ban carts outright. 

[Rory4Pres]

I'm kind of the opposite as the OP.  I feel like I need to ride in a cart when I've paid for it.  I prefer to walk.  

[third-times-a-charm]

I've been walking a lot more especially for my 9 hole rounds due to this.

 

The only time I use a cart is when its 100% not cart path only and I'm playing with friends with carts so I can keep up.

[AdExec]

My club has cart/range/locker room/shoe service included in the dues. Im sure we still pay for it, but it nice not to have to worry about the add on expenses.

 

 

[Bonneville85308]

I was a member at a club that switched from a per-round cart fee (~ $25 per person for 18 holes back in the 2010s), to raising the dues and including unlimited carts at no extra cost. It was funny, yet sad to see how many people had apparently only walked before the change because it was "free".  It effectively changed the club from probably 60% riders/40% walkers to 95% riders overnight. 

 

One other result of the change was that since we were now the only club in the area that baked unlimited carts into the dues, we attracted a bunch of retired guys who played every day as new members. They left the other clubs where they had to pay $25-$35 for a cart every time they played, which at, say, 150+ rounds per year, was a significant expense to them. Our club, despite higher dues, ended up being an overall cost savings to these guys who played a ton.

Edited March 23, 2022 by Bonneville85308

[ND2005]

I know several clubs that have instituted a “walking fee” for those not taking a cart. 
 

 

[caniac6]

Our club has a cart plan. I think it’s $1500 for a single, and $2000 for a couple. I walk, but will take a cart if playing in a tournament. Regular cart fee is $20/18 holes.

[Krt22]

My club is long with some decent hills, but a decent chunk of members still walk (myself included). I would not want to pay a yearly fee for something I prefer only to use on occasion. Same goes with Alcohol, some higher end clubs are all inclusive, if you are a drinker it's great, if you are not, you basically help subsidize booze for others.

[miamistomp]

28 minutes ago, ND2005 said:

I know several clubs that have instituted a “walking fee” for those not taking a cart. 
 

 

If you join a club to play golf- why would they charge you to walk?

Shouldn't that just be part of the membership ? You are not using any additional equipment that gets wear and tear

[leekgolf]

5 hours ago, jibbs1082 said:

Anything more annoying than per-round cart fees at private clubs? The nickel and diming is so tacky, out of principal

 

Just charge a flat maintenance fee to everyone or hide it in the annuals. Clearly clubs want people to use carts/dine etc.... they don't want people to show up walk 9 and leave. 

 

Just venting.... will never understand it. 

It's pretty simple. Your club needs to cover it's costs plus make a little to cover reserves for future improvements or maintenance. The club may use the cart fees to pay the pros or they may use them to meet budgets.

 

They could easily eliminate cart charges. All they would need to do is figure out how much revenue they receive from carts, divide it by the number of members and add that to the annual dues.

 

I've seen it done before. You can't imagine the screaming from people who belong who are casual golfers, or couples where one person plays often and the spouse doesn't. Then there was the complaining about families with several kids playing a lot of rounds as well. I've seen people quit their club over the cost of including cart fees in dues.

 

No matter how they collect these revenues, someone will be unhappy. My guess is charging by the cart allows the members who use the carts most to pay accordingly. 

 

Maybe you should talk to your board and let them know your ideas for a better way to handle it?

[caniac6]

1 hour ago, ND2005 said:

I know several clubs that have instituted a “walking fee” for those not taking a cart. 
 

 

I would not be a member of a club that does that.

[JJFWebster]

I would be interested to see if pace of play improved or worsened, after including carts in the dues. Anyone have data on it?

[cristphoto]

Our club is $25 per cart for 18 holes.  No option for package pricing. We have a good percentage of walkers but primarily for the health aspect (just my guess) vs the savings.  The only topic cart-wise that comes up from time to time is mandatory carts before 11am on weekends.  This gets shot down every time.  Our latest cart lease has the "electronic ranger" feature.  If you drive off the path on cart path only days the cart will stall out and you have to get back on the path in reverse or super slow in forward.  The feature is controlled by the pro shop.  

[Bonneville85308]

11 minutes ago, JJFWebster said:

I would be interested to see if pace of play improved or worsened, after including carts in the dues. Anyone have data on it?

 

I have no hard data from when my old club made the change, but anecdotally I don't think it made any difference even though the number of rounds played went up. The slow people were still slow, the fast people were still fast, and our top 10 notoriously slow players were all riders before the change anyway.

[Hawkeye77]

I don’t even understand the complaint or how it could be annoying and NO, clubs don’t necessarily want people to use carts and dine, lol. Lots of people walk, carts have to be charged in some fashion.  Not all clubs are the same, but in general this is a pretty odd complaint - how dare they make me account for a cart every time I use one, I can’t be bothered with the human interaction or the 30 seconds either paying for it or saying put it on my bill takes away from my pre-round routine, lol. 

Edited March 24, 2022 by Hawkeye77

[tmcgrath22]

I play with a group on Sat/Sun mornings and Tuesday evenings. There is around 24 or so guys and generally we get 16 or so to show up. Every single one of us walk with a push cart. Referred to as “push cart Mafia” among the membership. Most of our “golfers” walk and have a push cart. The older crowd or people who play less frequently ride and pay the $18 a round for a cart. Takes both kinds. But with 560 members, the club has never been in better financial shape. Takes all kinds. 

[Roody]

It's why I purchased a MotoCaddy shortly after I joined my club. The thing paid for itself within a year or so, and I get exercise without killing my back from carrying. 

[me05501]

The oddest policy I've encountered is at The Honors Course near here.

 

They are very dedicated to having a great caddie program and encourage every player to at least share a caddie. They strongly prefer having players walk when possible and everything about the course is designed to cater to walkers. 

 

They do have carts, but if you choose to use a cart you pay the equivalent of the minimum caddie fee which I think is $80/round. Even if all four players are riding the group must still have at least one forecaddie. There are no golfers on the course without a caddie.

 

I've only ridden once there and it was because we were teeing off after 2pm or something like that. Peyton Manning is a member and apparently he prefers to ride most rounds. 

[klebs01]

2 hours ago, me05501 said:

The oddest policy I've encountered is at The Honors Course near here.

 

They are very dedicated to having a great caddie program and encourage every player to at least share a caddie. They strongly prefer having players walk when possible and everything about the course is designed to cater to walkers. 

 

They do have carts, but if you choose to use a cart you pay the equivalent of the minimum caddie fee which I think is $80/round. Even if all four players are riding the group must still have at least one forecaddie. There are no golfers on the course without a caddie.

 

I've only ridden once there and it was because we were teeing off after 2pm or something like that. Peyton Manning is a member and apparently he prefers to ride most rounds. 

I like that policy a lot. Not sure that caddies should be required for ever round, but otherwise it sounds great. 

[me05501]

32 minutes ago, klebs01 said:

I like that policy a lot. Not sure that caddies should be required for ever round, but otherwise it sounds great. 

 

It's not your typical course.

 

Jack Lupton started the course when he felt like he was passed over as the Chairman at AN. He quit AN and created The Honors as a bit of a rival to it. 

 

Like AN, the Honors has a national membership and there are accommodations on site for overnight guests. The concept of the course is to celebrate amateur golf so they will never host a professional event but they've had the U.S. Am and many other notable amateur events. 

 

Another policy of the club is that it isn't allowed to operate in the red. At the end of each season any shortfall in the budget is made up by an immediate assessment of the membership. You get a bill for some unknown amount, and you either pay it or quit. 

[cristphoto]

18 minutes ago, me05501 said:

 

Another policy of the club is that it isn't allowed to operate in the red. At the end of each season any shortfall in the budget is made up by an immediate assessment of the membership. You get a bill for some unknown amount, and you either pay it or quit. 

 

Federal Government - take note.  🤑

[vandyfan]

3 hours ago, me05501 said:

Peyton Manning is a member and apparently he prefers to ride most rounds. 

 

Considering how he took max contracts everywhere he went AND made more money off the field than any other NFL player during his time AND already came from a wealthy family I am sure he can just burn money whenever. (note: I do not like Peyton)

[DonatelloNobodie]

Why should walkers pay extra in their dues to cover riders? An extra charge or membership tier to cover unlimited cart use make more sense.

[me05501]

2 hours ago, blackbdmillsaps said:

 

Considering how he took max contracts everywhere he went AND made more money off the field than any other NFL player during his time AND already came from a wealthy family I am sure he can just burn money whenever. (note: I do not like Peyton)

 

Wow. I've never heard of anyone not liking Peyton. 🙂

[cristphoto]

On 3/24/2022 at 1:33 PM, blackbdmillsaps said:

 

Considering how he took max contracts everywhere he went AND made more money off the field than any other NFL player during his time AND already came from a wealthy family I am sure he can just burn money whenever. (note: I do not like Peyton)

 

It could be his knees are shot after years of playing football. I know he had neck and back surgery and that's one reason the Colts (I believe) let him go. I think that's why Bones (Phil's caddy) initially retired from caddying - bad knees.  He's since had them corrected and back to caddying again.  I don't know haw Fluff (Furyk's caddy) continues to caddy. He's well into his 70's.  He's missing out on doing testimonials for pain relievers. 😀