Larry Rinker/Wright Balance

[oiler45]

I see this swing instruction method has not been discussed here for quite awhile. I am new to this process but I've watched a ton of their videos and have read everything I can find. The description of the Upper Core Swing seems to fit my swing to a tee ! I really like the notion that what always seems to work for me were the elements of my swing I was previously trying to change, because I always thought it was "wrong". Things like early extension, using the wrists/arms and releasing early are elements that I do but always felt were things I should change. Working on a more natural Upper Core Swing method really feels natural for me. I have only used this method at the range but am looking forward to playing this way soon. Anyone else out there use Larry Rinker's teaching ? Comments ?

Thanks

 

 

 

[scooterhd2]

The upper core method fits alot of golfers. Especially if you are older or picked the game up later in life. 

 

It's not the modern tour swing. But I don't doubt alot of people could build a highly functional swing and play the best golf of their life using it. Worth exploring if you are drawn to it and are seeing success in practice. 

[BigEx44]

6 hours ago, oiler45 said:

I see this swing instruction method has not been discussed here for quite awhile. I am new to this process but I've watched a ton of their videos and have read everything I can find. The description of the Upper Core Swing seems to fit my swing to a tee ! I really like the notion that what always seems to work for me were the elements of my swing I was previously trying to change, because I always thought it was "wrong". Things like early extension, using the wrists/arms and releasing early are elements that I do but always felt were things I should change. Working on a more natural Upper Core Swing method really feels natural for me. I have only used this method at the range but am looking forward to playing this way soon. Anyone else out there use Larry Rinker's teaching ? Comments ?

Thanks

 

 

 

I like Larry's stuff.

I too am an "upper core" more armsy swinger (at least that what it feels like to me).

And my game has really started improve once I embraced  that idea.

It helped me filter You Tube video's that fitted my swing.

So I'm now a big  fan of Julian Mellor's and also like to follow any Manual De Le Torre Instructors.

[Hawkeye77]

If you want the benefits of Dr. Wright's ideas you really need to see an instructor in person and have a hands on evaluation.  

[Soloman1]

Dr. Wright has plenty of data to substantiate his teaching from working at balance labs at universities, to developing optimum handle and grip sizes for baseball and golf. He’s got the chops.

[Soloman1]

51 minutes ago, Billywhizz said:

The above article is interesting and seems to be similar to Mike Adams

 

Mike and “Doc” know each other well.

[MonteScheinblum]

I’ve been friends with Dr. Wright for 40 years.  He’s definitely legit.

[oiler45]

Thanks all for the comments. I played my first round of the year today and hit the ball very well. I'm not so sure my swing is any "different", but I do believe my swing is freer, as I'm not concerned that what I'm doing is wrong or needs changing. I think the days of me trying to mimic Rory or Adam Scott are over. My swing now looks like a mid-60 year old dude with average athleticism - hey maybe because that is who I am !

[Lefty_3Jack]

I follow him on Instagram, understand the concept, but I'm not convinced of the science of it.  The logic doesn't make sense that "95%" of the people he sees are structurally built to not rotate through the shot, yet all top level golfers do rotate a ton through the shot.  Webb Simpson is the only example I've seen him reference on a pro that looks like what he prescribes.  I think it's a way to get amateurs to hit the ball more solid while using what they have and that is a good thing!    

 

With all of that being said, I swing the club a lot like he prescribes.  If my rear hip pops out or shoulders get opening too quick I hit it bad.  If I stay back with the body and let the arms pass the body I hit it much more solid.  

[Hawkeye77]

59 minutes ago, Billywhizz said:

Here is Larry Rinker explaining the different category of players .  

 

 

 

The categorisation seems a lot simpler than that proposed by EA Tischler

 

P3G-Accuracy (newhorizonsgolf.com)

 

P3G-Power (newhorizonsgolf.com)

 

P3G-GoodFeel (newhorizonsgolf.com)

 

Then we have even further categorisations regarding the use of ground reaction forces (and other body characteristics). Although Dr Kwon seems to be concentrating on a swing based mainly on vertical grfs with the lower body getting angular momentum into the golfer/club system.

 

 

 

In my opinion it's getting very confusing and I wish they'd all agree on a some common set of terminologies.

 

 

If you are confused, it’s apparently because you are responding to yourself, lol.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Hawkeye77

[Hawkeye77]

43 minutes ago, Billywhizz said:

 

Yes, looks like no-one else is interested in this thread so I might just ignore it too. Seem like people are more interested in Pete Cowen spiral stuff . Did you know that spirals are very common in nature?  Therefore why not golf instruction. Lol! 

I’m sure plenty of folks might be interested in Dr. Wright - your trying to derail that is the issue. Glad you are moving on. 

[Hawkeye77]

29 minutes ago, Billywhizz said:

 

Not sure what you mean that I am 'derailing'  when I am the one actually providing some links to his ideas.

 

Here is a link to his ebook if anyone is interested:

 

Stance Width & Core, Chapter 1, The Research Pages 1-30 - Flip PDF Download | FlipHTML5

 

You might think I am derailing his opinions by adding links to EA Tischler and Mike Adams opinions but they have worked in parallel with Dr Wright for several years (see below).  The fact that they are promoting similar theories using different terminology is unnecessarily confusing in my humble opinion so why be snippy?  I noticed that people were interested in the Dr Kwon thread but you denigrated his opinions by calling it  'smoke and mirrors nonsense'.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not biting - same old stuff and anyone that's been around more than a few years knows what you're about.  Enjoy.

[Hawkeye77]

On 4/7/2022 at 6:53 PM, oiler45 said:

Thanks all for the comments. I played my first round of the year today and hit the ball very well. I'm not so sure my swing is any "different", but I do believe my swing is freer, as I'm not concerned that what I'm doing is wrong or needs changing. I think the days of me trying to mimic Rory or Adam Scott are over. My swing now looks like a mid-60 year old dude with average athleticism - hey maybe because that is who I am !

So . . . to get your thread back on track . . . have you investigated getting in touch with an instructor so you can get hands on instruction using Dr. Wright's ideas and principles?  There's a lot more to it than simply self-identifying as an upper core, so to speak, although if something related to that has you feeling like you played well your first round of the year, then something worked at least for that round.  Seems like he has a lot to offer, but like a lot of other so-called methods (and not really classifying him that way) people think they are "doing the x swing" or "doing the y swing" after watching a few videos and really aren't doing much related to what they think they are doing.

 

Just curious, not criticizing, but if you really have an interest in what all that goes into his ideas I hope you have an opportunity to see one of his instructors - you just aren't going to get the benefit from what you can glean online (and I'm not affiliated with him in any way, lol, just enjoy hearing about folks getting better and hope you see improvement).

[oiler45]

No criticism taken. Maybe my point wasn't totally clear - I was asking for comments and feedback as to the legitimacy of this method. I do not want to radically change my swing as I'm getting older and just want to have fun and potentially play better. I was just more looking for validation that the general principles of Rinker/Wright Balance is valid and and that I don't really "need" to worry about my swing being "wrong" or going against proven fundamentals.  Thanks for all the comments.

[prodigal golfer]

I have tried powering the swing and releasing with the body taught by "modern" instruction for a decade of learning and playing golf, never helped me hit the ball solid.

I found Rinker on youtube, loved the no frills to the point instruction, and have been hitting the ball as well as i ever had by swinging and hitting the ball using the arms, wrists and hands.

[BigEx44]

I've been fascinated by Larry Rinker's stuff for the last few years.

I'm actually scheduled to take a couple hour lesson with him in early March.

Looking forward to experiencing the measurement process and his tips that mught help my swing.

[leegee38]

13 hours ago, BigEx44 said:

I've been fascinated by Larry Rinker's stuff for the last few years.

I'm actually scheduled to take a couple hour lesson with him in early March.

Looking forward to experiencing the measurement process and his tips that mught help my swing.

It will be interesting to see if he identifies you as an upper core player.  I look forward to reading about your experience.  Enjoy!

 

[BigEx44]

18 hours ago, BigEx44 said:

I've been fascinated by Larry Rinker's stuff for the last few years.

I'm actually scheduled to take a couple hour lesson with him in early March.

Looking forward to experiencing the measurement process and his tips that mught help my swing.

 

I'm pretty sure I'm an Upper Core given that my swing feels very armsy and I know I'm not very open at impact.

But it'll be interesting to see what Larry measures and then what he recommends for my swing as a result.

Really looking forward to the 3 hour lesson.

[BigEx44]

On 1/26/2023 at 11:55 PM, leegee38 said:

It will be interesting to see if he identifies you as an upper core player.  I look forward to reading about your experience.  Enjoy!

 

 

I had my Wright Balance fitting/lesson with Larry Rinker on Friday 3/10/23 and it was both interesting and a lot of fun.  He teaches out of the Ritz-Carlton Golf Club in Orlando which is an absolutely beautiful facility.  My lesson went from 9 am to 12 noon.  Btw - not surprisingly (to me at least), I measured out as a full blown upper core "9" region.  I'm about as "upper core" as you can get!

Here's how the day went:

Larry started off by getting a baseline of my swing.  He had me hit 5 drives and five shots with my 7 iron.  He videoed all the swings and then we went inside his office to discuss what he was seeing.
 

Once inside, he popped up a chart with all my data on it from those 10 swings.  He spent some time going over my smash factor, angle of attack, swing path etc. etc.  None of the data was too bad in his eyes.
 

My swings were about 6 degrees "in to out" which isn't surprising given my closed stance.  I was carrying my driver over 200+ yds and with roll getting a total distance of about 250 yds (I'm 65 yrs old with a driver swing speed in the mid 90's mph).  All the shots were draws and my smash factor was around 1.42 to 1.44 (except for one bad swing at 1.38).  My iron data was not bad (155 total yds) but the smash factor and some other data wasn't quite as good as with my driver.  He equated that to a little sway I have in my iron swing (you'll hear that in his comments below).  Whereas he's ok with a little sway I have in my driver swing.

He clearly saw a lot of upper core tendencies in my swings on video (except for my lateral movement which he wants me to fix!)  Here are his video comments about my swing and why he thinks I'm Upper Core:
https://app.v1sports.com/player?SwingID ... 3462df5cf9

Bottom line is he wants things to match up in your swing.  For example, don't try to pair a lower core strong grip which requires very open hips at contact with a more rotational upper core swing where the hips are square.  It's a recipe for disaster in his opinion.  And since all my swing tendencies were upper core except for that sway - he wants me to get to an upper core turn where everything is in sinc.  Made a lot sense to me.

Then it was on to the more science part.  While in the office he measured my external shoulder rotation.  This was me standing up straight and holding my right arm as though I was carrying a tray.  From that position he measured how far backwards I could rotate my hands (my shoulder)
I couldn't rotate very far.  That is very Upper Core.

He then recorded my shoulder width in two spots, my height, my weight and my shoe size.  All of this so he could mark various stance widths on a ruler relative to my measurements.  He then had me stand at these various widths.  It was interesting how while standing straight up and putting my feet at the different widths changed my balance point from the heels of my feet, to the middle of my feet, and then to the balls of my feet.  Fascinating.

From these various stances he then had me put my right hand out in that tray position again and he pushed down while I resisted his power.  I could feel (and he could feel it too) that I was most in balance, and most able to resist his power, from an upper core region 9 stance width (relatively narrow).
 

He then marked on one side of the ruler all the various core stance widths.  On the other side, placing my left foot and the end of the ruler, he marked out the region I should place my right foot for an upper core swing.  And there's some flexibility in this as my right foot could be any where's from 12.25 inches to 20.25 inches for any of my clubs and I would be in an upper core stance (ie my driver stance was just inside the 20-inch mark.  My iron stance was narrower).  He didn't want me to have a stance outside that region otherwise I would be using a mid/lower core stance for an upper core swing.  Btw, I got to take the ruler home with me for practice.

He then had me stand straight up with my arms at me side.  I then rotated my hands to face outwards and he measured the resulting angle that occurred between my upper arms and my forearms.  This is the "power angle" and for me that equates to a very neutral grip.  Here's a video of him describing those measurements.

 

Again, my measurements were VERY upper core (I think I measured 161 if I remember correctly)

Finally, he measured my middle finger on each hand to determine if I had the proper grip size.  He recommended I have one layer of tape on the top of my standard Golf Pride GP2 grip and 3 layers of tape to the bottom half.  He said to try it on my 7i first and if it felt good to go ahead and do the rest of my clubs.

We then went to the private part of the driving range where he wanted to show me the drill he'd like me to do to eliminate my sway (I think it's in the video above too).  But here's the same drill he put up on you tube:

 

I hit some PW's, 7 irons, and driver using that drill.  Another 15 shots altogether.  When I pivoted correctly, I could really feel the added juice to my iron shots.  The main thing he gave me to work on!

Then our time was done.

He basically told me, other than not following my BS with my eyes, I only needed to pivot better with my irons.

Nice that I've only got only a couple of things to work on.  But he says that's great - because he wants to work with what each golfer does naturally - and my kind of mid-core sway was out of sinc with all my other upper core tendencies.

Bottom Line - I was VERY satisfied with the lesson and the whole upper vs mid vs lower core philosophy resonates to me.
 

Edited March 13, 2023 by BigEx44

[leegee38]

Thanks for sharing, and thanks for the detailed explanation of your experience.  Sounds like it was well worth it for you.

 

Now you've just got to get to work, right?  😁

 

Best of luck with it, and thanks again.

 

- Lee

[Nels55]

Great stuff @BigEx44 !  I believe that you have mentioned that you had a goal of finding one swing to use for your retirement years and it seems that you have it!  Should be a swing that will work for a long time as it is easy on the body.  Enjoy!

[BigEx44]

1 hour ago, Nels55 said:

Great stuff @BigEx44 !  I believe that you have mentioned that you had a goal of finding one swing to use for your retirement years and it seems that you have it!  Should be a swing that will work for a long time as it is easy on the body.  Enjoy!

 

Yes, it's nice to have "my swing" and have someone like Larry Rinker affirm that it works and I can play good golf with it.

 

I am now officially off the golf "merry go round" of experimenting with different swings.

 

As Leegee38 noted, now i just need to get better with that swing!

[Bt31]

On 3/13/2023 at 5:57 AM, BigEx44 said:

 

I had my Wright Balance fitting/lesson with Larry Rinker on Friday 3/10/23 and it was both interesting and a lot of fun.  He teaches out of the Ritz-Carlton Golf Club in Orlando which is an absolutely beautiful facility.  My lesson went from 9 am to 12 noon.  Btw - not surprisingly (to me at least), I measured out as a full blown upper core "9" region.  I'm about as "upper core" as you can get!

Here's how the day went:

Larry started off by getting a baseline of my swing.  He had me hit 5 drives and five shots with my 7 iron.  He videoed all the swings and then we went inside his office to discuss what he was seeing.
 

Once inside, he popped up a chart with all my data on it from those 10 swings.  He spent some time going over my smash factor, angle of attack, swing path etc. etc.  None of the data was too bad in his eyes.
 

My swings were about 6 degrees "in to out" which isn't surprising given my closed stance.  I was carrying my driver over 200+ yds and with roll getting a total distance of about 250 yds (I'm 65 yrs old with a driver swing speed in the mid 90's mph).  All the shots were draws and my smash factor was around 1.42 to 1.44 (except for one bad swing at 1.38).  My iron data was not bad (155 total yds) but the smash factor and some other data wasn't quite as good as with my driver.  He equated that to a little sway I have in my iron swing (you'll hear that in his comments below).  Whereas he's ok with a little sway I have in my driver swing.

He clearly saw a lot of upper core tendencies in my swings on video (except for my lateral movement which he wants me to fix!)  Here are his video comments about my swing and why he thinks I'm Upper Core:
https://app.v1sports.com/player?SwingID ... 3462df5cf9

Bottom line is he wants things to match up in your swing.  For example, don't try to pair a lower core strong grip which requires very open hips at contact with a more rotational upper core swing where the hips are square.  It's a recipe for disaster in his opinion.  And since all my swing tendencies were upper core except for that sway - he wants me to get to an upper core turn where everything is in sinc.  Made a lot sense to me.

Then it was on to the more science part.  While in the office he measured my external shoulder rotation.  This was me standing up straight and holding my right arm as though I was carrying a tray.  From that position he measured how far backwards I could rotate my hands (my shoulder)
I couldn't rotate very far.  That is very Upper Core.

He then recorded my shoulder width in two spots, my height, my weight and my shoe size.  All of this so he could mark various stance widths on a ruler relative to my measurements.  He then had me stand at these various widths.  It was interesting how while standing straight up and putting my feet at the different widths changed my balance point from the heels of my feet, to the middle of my feet, and then to the balls of my feet.  Fascinating.

From these various stances he then had me put my right hand out in that tray position again and he pushed down while I resisted his power.  I could feel (and he could feel it too) that I was most in balance, and most able to resist his power, from an upper core region 9 stance width (relatively narrow).
 

He then marked on one side of the ruler all the various core stance widths.  On the other side, placing my left foot and the end of the ruler, he marked out the region I should place my right foot for an upper core swing.  And there's some flexibility in this as my right foot could be any where's from 12.25 inches to 20.25 inches for any of my clubs and I would be in an upper core stance (ie my driver stance was just inside the 20-inch mark.  My iron stance was narrower).  He didn't want me to have a stance outside that region otherwise I would be using a mid/lower core stance for an upper core swing.  Btw, I got to take the ruler home with me for practice.

He then had me stand straight up with my arms at me side.  I then rotated my hands to face outwards and he measured the resulting angle that occurred between my upper arms and my forearms.  This is the "power angle" and for me that equates to a very neutral grip.  Here's a video of him describing those measurements.

 

Again, my measurements were VERY upper core (I think I measured 161 if I remember correctly)

Finally, he measured my middle finger on each hand to determine if I had the proper grip size.  He recommended I have one layer of tape on the top of my standard Golf Pride GP2 grip and 3 layers of tape to the bottom half.  He said to try it on my 7i first and if it felt good to go ahead and do the rest of my clubs.

We then went to the private part of the driving range where he wanted to show me the drill he'd like me to do to eliminate my sway (I think it's in the video above too).  But here's the same drill he put up on you tube:

 

I hit some PW's, 7 irons, and driver using that drill.  Another 15 shots altogether.  When I pivoted correctly, I could really feel the added juice to my iron shots.  The main thing he gave me to work on!

Then our time was done.

He basically told me, other than not following my BS with my eyes, I only needed to pivot better with my irons.

Nice that I've only got only a couple of things to work on.  But he says that's great - because he wants to work with what each golfer does naturally - and my kind of mid-core sway was out of sinc with all my other upper core tendencies.

Bottom Line - I was VERY satisfied with the lesson and the whole upper vs mid vs lower core philosophy resonates to me.
 

Thanks for sharing your experience. I've been using his upper core fundamentals for a couple of years with pretty good success. One question on stance width. Were numbers you listed measured from the outside of each foot or the inside? 

[BigEx44]

8 hours ago, Bt31 said:

Thanks for sharing your experience. I've been using his upper core fundamentals for a couple of years with pretty good success. One question on stance width. Were numbers you listed measured from the outside of each foot or the inside? 

 

From the middle of the foot (toes).

[Hawkeye77]

Nice!  Love reading about good experiences.

[ABuckley11]

I have spent 2 seasons with 2 different instructors trying to get me to shallow the club like crazy and rotate my hips open to square the face, along with making me weaken my grip and bow my wrists. Thankfully last summer I was introduced to Larry Rinker’s YouTube videos and Wright Balance. I quickly figured out I was upper core with limited external shoulder rotation, despite being relatively athletic and in my late 20s. I played the best golf of my life last fall breaking 80 3 times and plan to keep working on my upper core swing and have found a Wright Balance instructor near me. It’s such a shame how modern golf instruction now is molded to one swing trying to get players to rip their hips and chest open, when in reality most Tour pros look to be mid/upper core (Tiger, Max Homa, Jimmy Walker, Phil Mickelson, Brooks) with their hips hardly open at all at impact. Hope Rinker and Wright Balance continues to grow. 

[NoTalentLefty]

Been doing much of the upper core except I’m using more of the one piece take away. But not knowing it was already out there by the above 2 men. Will try to incorporate the way Rinker lays it out. 

[fried121]

Recently came across the Wright Balance materials. Unfortunately, I don’t have an instructor near me to go through the screenings. 
 

Has anyone been screened remotely by an instructor or taken the certification course?

 

My swing has components from different “core levels” and I’m interested to see how I test out.