New tool, now I have questions, swing weights

[Mrgreen36]

Just got a swing weight scale. Checked my old irons vs my new ones, pretty close maybe d1 vs d2. 

 

Checked my driver, Sim2 with a 70g evenflow riptide.  It was a C5, I knew it felt light, but dang.  Put in my av raw orange shaft, got me to a c7 maybe. 

 

Swapped 16g back weight for 20g, got me close to D0.  Still feels a touch light. 

 

What were the sim2s stock?  

 

I have a 24g weight as well, see if that pushes me to a D2.  Research says, D5 is usually a fairly good point to start from, not sure I can get there. 

 

No wonder it felt like my drives were kind of just running out of steam way too early. 

 

 

[R.Patrick]

Isn't the tensei orange counterbalanced?  Maybe try something that isnt.

[Mrgreen36]

12 minutes ago, R.Patrick said:

Isn't the tensei orange counterbalanced?  Maybe try something that isnt.

It is, I have another shaft somewhere for it. I like the evenflow riptide. I guess next step is to weigh head, but I thought I did that and it was around 200g. 

 

I was slightly confused when I checked it with 16g standard weight in the sim2 and the riptide. That shaft is heavier than the av raw orange. 

 

[Seamus_McDuff]

Length?

[szaino]

from TM website- stock specs. The shafts that are offered are 60 and 70 gram.

 

If you put in a lighter shaft and it is < 45.75" and the grip is heavier than stock, getting to C5 is still a stretch.

 

[Mrgreen36]

11 minutes ago, szaino said:

from TM website- stock specs. The shafts that are offered are 60 and 70 gram.

 

If you put in a lighter shaft and it is < 45.75" and the grip is heavier than stock, getting to C5 is still a stretch.

 

Evenflow is 44" adapter tip to grip butt, so right at 45" driver length. Grip is a midsize lamkin, but should be 50g. 

 

Stock 16g was c5

20g is now almost c8 

 

I believe I have a stock av orange I could stick in sim2 and see as well. 

 

Head is 201g. 

 

 

[Mrgreen36]

With stock 16g weight. 

 

20g gets me about C8

 

My 24g would get me to D1 maybe. 

 

Need to grab my ck orange stock shaft I have and check. 

[Mrgreen36]

Better angle. 

 

24g got me to D1.   

 

The length off shaft should only lose about 4.5. 

 

Weird 

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Mrgreen36

[Mrgreen36]

I'm sure it's a crappy scale will be one reason....

 

I'm reshafting irons, like the way my old mp29s felt, so I will try to copy that in the mp18 mmc I am reshafting. 

 

29s were a d1 mmcs were a d2 I think, done other things since. 

[Valtiel]

@Mrgreen36 I'm a bit confused by the photos as they're both showing "D4". Am I missing something?

Edited April 7, 2022 by Valtiel

[Mrgreen36]

39 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

@Mrgreen36 I'm a bit confused by the photos as they're both showing "D4". Am I missing something?

It's right to left scale, further left is heavier. 

[Valtiel]

Just now, Mrgreen36 said:

It's right to left scale, further left is heavier. 

Oh duh, thanks hah. 

Double check the weight on that grip to make sure that isn't influencing the readings too much. At the end of the day though, this is what matter:

"Swapped 16g back weight for 20g, got me close to D0.  Still feels a touch light."

And this does not:

"Research says, D5 is usually a fairly good point to start from"

All you need to worry about is adding weight until it feels right to you, then check the measurement afterwards to document. If you want to figure out why things seem to weighing lighter than you expect then an accurate measurements of total length, head weight, actual grip weight, and shaft balance point need to be accounted for. 

[Drivingrangehero]

1 hour ago, Mrgreen36 said:

Grip is a midsize lamkin, but should be 50g. 

Id double check that. 
I think the crossline  Mid is 63g if I remember correctly. 
 

I think it’s only 1sw point deduction for every 15g of grip weight, but I’m not a club builder. 
 

Like already mentioned, just keep adding weight to the head until it feels right, rather than trying to reach an arbitrary number. 
 

After reaching the correct weight and length on my driver I found my best dispersion/ launch and spin numbers came from a driver (PingG410lst) that swingweights at D9.5 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[Mrgreen36]

18 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

Oh duh, thanks hah. 

Double check the weight on that grip to make sure that isn't influencing the readings too much. At the end of the day though, this is what matter:

"Swapped 16g back weight for 20g, got me close to D0.  Still feels a touch light."

And this does not:

"Research says, D5 is usually a fairly good point to start from"

All you need to worry about is adding weight until it feels right to you, then check the measurement afterwards to document. If you want to figure out why things seem to weighing lighter than you expect then an accurate measurements of total length, head weight, actual grip weight, and shaft balance point need to be accounted for. 

 

 

I just checked my stock m5, it was a D5 which seems to jive with TM specs. 

 

That shaft in sim2 head is a D3

 

I have a batch of Lamkin crossing midsize going on everything after I shaft irons. Those are supposed to be 50g. 

 

The grip on it is a cheapy from Amazon as I needed some grips quick when I got new to me irons and I like all grips the same. That could be part of it, if it's heavy. 

 

Got a starting point now, think this scale is fairly close after checking m5. 

 

Thanks. 

[Mrgreen36]

Just now, Drivingrangehero said:

Id double check that. 
I think the crossline  Mid is 63g if I remember correctly. 
 

I think it’s only 1sw point deduction for every 15g of grip weight, but I’m not a club builder. 
 

Like already mentioned, just keep adding weight to the head until it feels right, rather than trying to reach an arbitrary number. 
 

After reaching the correct weight and length on my driver I found my best dispersion/ launch and spin numbers came from a driver (PingG410lst) that swingweights at D9.5 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

 

They are 63g, just checked lamkins site. 

 

I spaced, its not on it yet, other grip may even be heavier as it's just a cheap Amazon special to get me by until I figured out my iron situation. 

 

 

[mmowen01]

What I have found is adding 5g of grip weight decrease swing weight 1 point. I think they usually say 4g but I’ve seen using 5g in a calculation is closer. 
 

If your at 45” playing length thats 3/4” shorter the stock and would change the sw approximately 4.5 points. 
 

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by mmowen01

[Mrgreen36]

2 minutes ago, mmowen01 said:

What I have found is adding 5g of grip weight decrease swing weight 1 point. I think they usually say 4g but I’ve seen using 5g in a calculation is closer. 
 

If your at 45” playing length thats 3/4” shorter the stock and would change the sw approximately 4.5 points. 
 

 

 

I had figured out that the length would drop it that. Seems it's a touch lighter with standard length shaft.  

 

Club feels good at a D2 to me, have to get to the range and see I suppose. 

 

 

[Valtiel]

2 hours ago, Drivingrangehero said:

I think the crossline  Mid is 63g if I remember correctly. 
 

I think it’s only 1sw point deduction for every 15g of grip weight, but I’m not a club builder. 

 

2 hours ago, Mrgreen36 said:

The grip on it is a cheapy from Amazon as I needed some grips quick when I got new to me irons and I like all grips the same. That could be part of it, if it's heavy. 

 

1 hour ago, mmowen01 said:

What I have found is adding 5g of grip weight decrease swing weight 1 point. I think they usually say 4g but I’ve seen using 5g in a calculation is closer. 
 

If your at 45” playing length thats 3/4” shorter the stock and would change the sw approximately 4.5 points. 
 

 

Yeah 5g per measured swingweight point reduction is the rule of thumb for grips, so the 4.5 points for the -3/4" length + potentially 3 points for the grip + a point or two from potential balance point differences in the shaft and you have your missing 8-10pts accounted for. 

[jomatty]

Isn't the riptide CB as well?  

[R.Patrick]

Is the surface that scale is sitting in level?

[Godfather]

5 hours ago, jomatty said:

Isn't the riptide CB as well?  

The blue is, but the black is not. 

[Mrgreen36]

5 hours ago, jomatty said:

Isn't the riptide CB as well?  

No

[Mrgreen36]

17 minutes ago, R.Patrick said:

Is the surface that scale is sitting in level?

 

Darn close, I didn't bring my Starrett 199 level home to check, but my stabilas say it's real close

[Stuart_G]

16 hours ago, Mrgreen36 said:

Research says, D5 is usually a fairly good point to start from, not sure I can get there.

 

Don't believe everything you read on the internet.   This is a very bad approach and not a good starting place.

 

Not trying to sound demeaning but actually this whole thread is a classic example of how NOT to use a swing weight scale and how not to fit your driver specs to your swing and preferences.

 

1) you don't use iron SW values or that from any other club in the set to get a target value

2) you certainly don't want to use anything from any other player to get a target value

3) stock swing weight values are horrible targets.

4) you don't usually want to change shafts (balance or weight) for the sake of swing weight values

5) most of the time you don't want to change length for the sake of swing weight values - although sometimes going shorter might be warranted if there is no other way to reduce the actual head weight. Going longer rarely is a good idea.

6) you don't want to manipulate grip weight for the sake of getting to a swing weight value

 

 

What you can use is:

1) a previous driver of yours that was a good fit that happened to have the same playing length, same shaft weight and same grip weight.  

 

If any of those things change in a new build, throw out the value and go work out the best head weight on the range by feel and performance NOT by swing weight value.    And when you do that it's much easier to start a bit on the light side and work your way up than it is to risk starting too heavy.

 

And the order you should address the club specs for each iteration is usually best done by figuring out:

Grip size and grip weight comes first

playing length second

shaft weight third.

Then comes the head weight.

 

Once you figure things out on the range - then go back and use that scale to get a value which you can use for future drivers.

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Stuart_G

[Mrgreen36]

34 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Don't believe everything you read on the internet.   This is a very bad approach and not a good starting place.

 

Not trying to sound demeaning but actually this whole thread is a classic example of how NOT to use a swing weight scale and how not to fit your driver specs to your swing and preferences.

 

1) you don't use iron SW values or that from any other club in the set to get a target value

2) you certainly don't want to use anything from any other player to get a target value

3) stock swing weight values are horrible targets.

4) you don't usually want to change shafts (balance or weight) for the sake of swing weight values

5) most of the time you don't want to change length for the sake of swing weight values - although sometimes going shorter might be warranted if there is no other way to reduce the actual head weight. Going longer rarely is a good idea.

6) you don't want to manipulate grip weight for the sake of getting to a swing weight value

 

 

What you can use is:

1) a previous driver of yours that was a good fit that happened to have the same playing length, same shaft weight and same grip weight.  

 

If any of those things change in a new build, throw out the value and go work out the best head weight on the range by feel and performance NOT by swing weight value.    And when you do that it's much easier to start a bit on the light side and work your way up than it is to risk starting too heavy.

 

And the order you should address the club specs for each iteration is usually best done by figuring out:

Grip size and grip weight comes first

playing length second

shaft weight third.

Then comes the head weight.

 

Once you figure things out on the range - then go back and use that scale to get a value which you can use for future drivers.

 

 

This was all basically me being curious then trying to determine why it was so light feeling.  A 45.75" driver is just too long for me. At 45" my strike pattern is way more consistent than at 45.75.  

 

Now I know what and why and I can go from there when I regrip and play with the several weights I have. 

[Stuart_G]

24 minutes ago, Mrgreen36 said:

 

This was all basically me being curious then trying to determine why it was so light feeling.  A 45.75" driver is just too long for me. At 45" my strike pattern is way more consistent than at 45.75.  

 

Now I know what and why and I can go from there when I regrip and play with the several weights I have. 

 

It's not about whether or not you have to add weight,  it's about how to figure out how much weight you need to add.

 

You knew it was light even before you put it on the scale so you really didn't even need the scale to tell you that or tell you what you need to do to "fix" the problem.   That sense of feel is way more trustworthy and dependable than the swing weight scale.

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Stuart_G

[Mrgreen36]

50 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

It's not about whether or not you have to add weight,  it's about how to figure out how much weight you need to add.

 

You knew it was light even before you put it on the scale so you really didn't even need the scale to tell you that or tell you what you need to do to "fix" the problem.   That sense of feel is way more trustworthy and dependable than the swing weight scale.

 

 

Correct, but like I said I got it to reshaft some irons. Naturally I was going to start checking everything I had regardless. 

 

Now I know what my mp29s, my apex grinds and my mp18 mmcs all were. 

 

I also know Apex grinds always felt light, mp29s always felt great and the mmcs felt heavy, which is partly the shafts in them. 

 

 

[Stuart_G]

39 minutes ago, Mrgreen36 said:

 

Naturally I was going to start checking everything I had regardless. 

 

I would expect you to.   That's not what I was referring to as being any kind of problem.

 

 

[Mrgreen36]

On 4/8/2022 at 11:01 AM, Stuart_G said:

 

I would expect you to.   That's not what I was referring to as being any kind of problem.

 

 

 

The 24g weight was not for me. 

 

I think the 20g is about right, I can easily feel the head how I want.  

 

I guess my driver is just going to feel really light.