Course Management W/ a Scratch Golfer

[Exactice808]

Hey GolfWRX. I wanted to share a situation that finally happened.  The theory has been around but not sure if anyone has tried it, nor effectively took advantage of such opportunity.

 

I am a mid capper on any given day (10hdcp).  Lowest I ever shot was a 74.  Buddies have always said I had potential, but ego and just a different mind set keeps me from going lower and or maintaining lower scores.

 

A scratch golfer offered a while back to take me to the course to manage my game for 18 holes to see how low we could go, stars aligned and it happened.

 

We went to a fairly difficult course in comparison to what we normally play.  Secondly wind was insane 10mph average with gust up to 30+mph, we played white tees as that's what I normally do, he always plays blue, but again the idea was confidence boosting to shoot as low as possible.   I shot an 80 that day, but that doesn't tell the whole story as to me that 80 felt like 72.  What I mean is Strokes gained and overall scoring proved some context.

 

General logged Averages (2 years of data)

 

GIR -38%

Putting - 1.9 per hole

 

Birdies -6%

Par Avg - 38%

Bogey - 36%

Double - 14%

Worse -6% 

 

 

Scratched Managed Round (Overall all scoring, 13 pars, 2 bogeys, 3 doubles)

 

GIR- 50%

Putts -1.7

 

Birdies - 0%

Pars - 72%

Bogey- 11%

Double - 17%

Triple -0%

 

 

The scratch golfer noticeably increased certain statistics that helped to lower/manage my score better. 

 

1) The BIGGEST significant jump was the Pars,  going from 38% to 72% basically doubled my Par averages. Why was this?  He managed the way I played the approach shots.  Told me specifically where to aim, and many holes it was different from how I would normally aim (Many times I would want to aim much closer to the pin, compared to where he said was actually further, BUT the results were better obviously)

 

2) The next was completely eliminating triple or worse. (There was never a time where triple was in play as he managed my expectations to take any risk that would put me in a triple, weird feeling as my average say at least 1 per round)

 

3) From there the next stat that tied it together was the GIR,  going from 38% to 50% implied better approaches.  Thus reducing putts as well to 1.7 from 1.9. (He had me club up pretty much every shot, but slow my swing down, it was ego bursting but the results don't lie,  Hitting full shots was a hit or miss, hitting 3/4 shots with a longer club netted me higher GIR averages.) This got me on the green sometimes pretty close for a good birdie chance, or easy 2 putt.

 

What did increase slightly was the doubles, I took 3.  But there is 1 excuse and 1 general cause..  

 

1) We both took doubles on the same hole (as it was that tough), the wind was blowing so hard that both our tees shots ended in the water,  the cross wind took us both by surprise, I aimed at the left edge of the fairway as water was right (50y from my starting/aiming point and it still drifted into the water)  Had to drop, and wind was howling, so took a double, cant help just a tough situation.

 

2) The 2 other doubles were just me hitting bad shots, not a management but an execution error on my part no excuse just hit a bad shot)

 

Its interesting how a scratch golfer mind works, In theory its easy to understand, but when you are standing on the course playing the hole, my mind is always attack mode..... the scratch golfer is NOT, its where is the best place to land the ball to 1), make par and 2), if I get it close or get lucky making a longer putt, I could make a birdie. Its not ALWAYS Birdie Birdie Birdie.  I honestly thoughts thats what the Pro's and scratch golfers do with their ability?  (I guess I was totally wrong?)

 

 

Did this experiment help? Absolutely if you have never done it, I would suggest it.  Getting inside the mind of a good player, trying to emulate and take away their good habits. Trying to figure out your bad habits that you need to cast away.

 

 

 

 

TL : DR. - What I learned from the Scratch golfer that I will apply on future rounds

 

1) Off the Tee box,  into wind, I would try to manipulate the flight every time.  Hit it low, Hit it high, wind coming from X direction, try to hit the opposite, (Fade/Draw).   He said unless you absolutely HAVE to (Hazard or OB), why are you changing/manipulating your swing. Just swing normal. Play what's consistent that keeps you in the fairway. just adjust your aiming point for cross winds.  Dont "F" around with helping or hurting wind just hit it normal and get in the fairway. Simple minded, but somehow I caught myself trying to mess around with the swing on the tee box.

 

2) They are NOT playing Birdies 100% of the time, they are playing pars 99% of the time, (Mindset) If the approach gets in close, that brings in birdies,  If not its generally an easy 2 putt for par and move on.

 

3) Up and downs, "At worse, where will I be"  Hitting the shot to get close but leave yourself the best position.  I would always aim more aggressively,  He is having me aim in place that if I make great, but if I miss, I have a way better comeback putt. 

 

 

 

This was fun to say the least, I am sure we will try this again, and hopefully get a real confidence boost when there is not 30+mph gust.  Here is hoping to reaching a new PR. 

 

Edited April 19, 2022 by Exactice808

[Patnachts]

The secret to good scores is not birdies but bogey and worse avoidance. Your friend seems to recognize that and encouraged you to play in such a way

[Precis1on]

A lot of people could learn from your insights here, and I hope someone does glean something from this post. It's amazing how often folks play shots or shot types that are way outside their pay grade, when they would have done much better just doing things normally. 

 

I'll add from my experience, especially getting out of trouble, I always think "How do I get out of this hole in 3 more strokes?". I don't put myself purposely in a position to have to go out in 4 or more, and I don't think much about going for less. 

 

I also hit the ball plenty far, but pull out longer irons and wedges than my playing partners for the same approach distances. 

[Ghostwedge]

33 minutes ago, Patnachts said:

The secret to good scores is not birdies but bogey and worse avoidance. Your friend seems to recognize that and encouraged you to play in such a way

This ^^^^

[Ghostwedge]

Man I see this  alot, straight away par 5 green guarded by giant mounds.

Pond to the left and severe roll off to the right. They hit two decent shots and fire for the middle of the green, miss and leave themselves impossible up and downs.

Your second shot has to be parked 100 yds short and to the right, that's where the opening to the green is. Easy wedge for a birdie look.

[aenemated]

1 hour ago, Exactice808 said:

3) From there the next stat that tied it together was the GIR,  going from 38% to 50% implied better approaches.  Thus reducing putts as well to 1.7 from 1.9. (He had me club up pretty much every shot, but slow my swing down, it was ego bursting but the results don't lie,  Hitting full shots was a hit or miss, hitting 3/4 shots with a longer club netted me higher GIR averages.) This got me on the green sometimes pretty close for a good birdie chance, or easy 2 putt

 

When I played Carnoustie back in 2019; I honestly believe that was the best golf I've ever played despite shooting 81; a good bit worse than my best score. And I credit my caddy that day.

 

He was an older fella; I'd guess late 60s or early 70s who said his best score there was 70. He definitely knew golf. 

 

I'd been playing well the whole trip and this was my last and most anticipated round. So, ya know, started off pretty solid. First handful of holes he was asking me what I'd normally hit from the yardage he gave me and by about the 4th hole, he was just handing me the club, and saying "Hit that [whatever the yardage was]." It was always at least a club longer, sometimes two.

 

Got around the front in 38 with him telling me "Lad, you go back to California and learn how to putt then come back. That should have been a 34." (It's true, I was putting TERRIBLY that day) 43 on the back was largely thanks to doubling 17 and 18 ... which are just freakin hard golf holes. And found the Barry Burn on 10 after trying to hack a 7 iron out of the hay. Otherwise, I played just as well as I did on the front. I'd have to track down my scorecard but I'm pretty sure I hit 13 greens that day.

 

And it was all because I was hitting distances ... instead of trying to hit distances. Basically the same idea as Monte's thread about PW distance. And why I DGAF how far I or anyone likes to tell people they can hit their irons. 

 

 

Edited April 19, 2022 by aenemated

[Exactice808]

52 minutes ago, Patnachts said:

The secret to good scores is not birdies but bogey and worse avoidance. Your friend seems to recognize that and encouraged you to play in such a way

It was amazing to apply this.  even when I was 100y to the hole, his goal for me was to make 18 pars, NOT 10 birdies and whatever.  He did everything to make sure I made nothing worse than a Bogey, Which for the most part he succeeded.  The mind set though was VERY conflicting and made me realize how differently a Scratch thinks. He is a million times better than I am.... yet he played WAY more conservative than I ever would.

a pretty darn eye opener.  He kept saying, I play very boring golf.... this really resonated.

[Exactice808]

53 minutes ago, Precis1on said:

A lot of people could learn from your insights here, and I hope someone does glean something from this post. It's amazing how often folks play shots or shot types that are way outside their pay grade, when they would have done much better just doing things normally. 

 

I'll add from my experience, especially getting out of trouble, I always think "How do I get out of this hole in 3 more strokes?". I don't put myself purposely in a position to have to go out in 4 or more, and I don't think much about going for less. 

 

I also hit the ball plenty far, but pull out longer irons and wedges than my playing partners for the same approach distances. 

 

Let me add context regarding distance, I hit it decently long, and from the whites that day its only 6,136y.  relatively short,  But the wind there specifically makes it harder. If there is no wind the course is rather defenseless. 

 

I nuked a handful of shots, but also backing off and hitting 1-2 clubs longer was an honest real shock to me.  as an example,  150 is my 8iron go to,  I had about 2 of those distances where he made me hit a 7iron and a 5 iron.  He was trying to get me to hit the ball with a lot less spin and use the loft to change the trajectory, rather than me swing different to do so.  Where the ball landed and ended up was all part of the plan... It was AMAZING.  I would have never likely took those shots without his guidance.....

 

 

[Precis1on]

5 minutes ago, Exactice808 said:

 

I nuked a handful of shots, but also backing off and hitting 1-2 clubs longer was an honest real shock to me.  as an example,  150 is my 8iron go to,  I had about 2 of those distances where he made me hit a 7iron and a 5 iron.  He was trying to get me to hit the ball with a lot less spin and use the loft to change the trajectory, rather than me swing different to do so.  Where the ball landed and ended up was all part of the plan... It was AMAZING.  I would have never likely took those shots without his guidance.....

 

 

 

+1 insight. Backing off and pulling longer clubs was probably solely responsible for actually getting me from -4 down to -1. Especially when course and weather conditions are rough. And even when they're good, your percentage of getting a good result goes up substantially.

[Krt22]

It sounds like you buddy buys into something very similar to the DECADE system. Long story short, avoiding bogey is far more beneficial and making birdie.

 

All of this stuff has been covered in here multiple times 😃

[Hawkeye77]

28 minutes ago, aenemated said:

 

When I played Carnoustie back in 2019; I honestly believe that was the best golf I've ever played despite shooting 81; a good bit worse than my best score. And I credit my caddy that day.

 

He was an older fella; I'd guess late 60s or early 70s who said his best score there was 70. He definitely knew golf. 

 

I'd been playing well the whole trip and this was my last and most anticipated round. So, ya know, started off pretty solid. First handful of holes he was asking me what I'd normally hit from the yardage he gave me and by about the 4th hole, he was just handing me the club, and saying "Hit that [whatever the yardage was]." It was always at least a club longer, sometimes two.

 

Got around the front in 38 with him telling me "Lad, you go back to California and learn how to putt then come back. That should have been a 34." (It's true, I was putting TERRIBLY that day) 43 on the back was largely thanks to doubling 17 and 18 ... which are just freakin hard golf holes. And found the Barry Burn on 10 after trying to hack a 7 iron out of the hay. Otherwise, I played just as well as I did on the front. I'd have to track down my scorecard but I'm pretty sure I hit 13 greens that day.

 

And it was all because I was hitting distances ... instead of trying to hit distances. Basically the same idea as Monte's thread about PW distance. And why I DGAF how far I or anyone likes to tell people they can hit their irons. 

 

 

When I read the OP I was thinking about two rounds - one at The Old Course and one at Royal Troon, two different caddies and two magical rounds.  I compare those with a couple of rounds at other courses with caddies where I just had no golf swing at all (and they helped for sure, but I couldn't do my part).

 

I had similar experiences to you with the good rounds - particularly at TOC, the old gentleman I had after a few holes would just tell me what club to hit and where and sometimes how, not let my wedge impulse override times I needed to be putting and so on.  Lots of lessons in those rounds I promptly forgot when I got home, lol.  Didn't hit every shot solid or where I was supposed to, but recovered exceptionally well for me that morning.  But when I did the results were fun.  He was really into the round - at some point on the back nine I had a relatively easy birdie putt that I missed and from behind me I heard a loud, whispered "f___k" (and so did everyone else, lol).  I'd be chatting up my wife or one of my daughters or one of the other caddies and Dennis would be "FOCUS!" and after every hole he'd tear off to the next tee to keep me moving and not talking - he knew I was having a good round and a great day and he was going to see that I got it done and he did.  

 

Thanks for the memory!

[bortass]

That's a great opportunity you had. Wish I could do something like that, lol.

 

As @Krt22mentions the bogey avoidance aspect of things has been discussed quite a bit. I think a missing piece is the how to do that based on one's game? Where is it I want to aim? Do I need to mess with changing trajectories? Etc. I understand the limitations of my game but what can i do to maximize what I got? It sounds like that's what you got a look at!

[aenemated]

9 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

He was really into the round - at some point on the back nine I had a relatively easy birdie putt that I missed and from behind me I heard a loud, whispered "f___k" (and so did everyone else, lol).  I'd be chatting up my wife or one of my daughters or one of the other caddies and Dennis would be "FOCUS!" and after every hole he'd tear off to the next tee to keep me moving and not talking - he knew I was having a good round and a great day and he was going to see that I got it done and he did. 

 

Haha I got a similar feeling; like every birdie putt I missed let Dave down somehow. 

 

Bummed I didn't get a photo with him. But I do have a couple like so:

 

 

Carrying my bag past The Spectacles. 🙂

[Chunkitgood]

I don’t think I ever played a round for a low total score.  It was match play with others in which everybody went for everything or playing by myself for practice.

 

I really don’t see the point of course management for a low score.  I’m not going to be on tv or other wise engaged in medal play.

 

Well, I see it but don’t agree with it.

[Exactice808]

35 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

It sounds like you buddy buys into something very similar to the DECADE system. Long story short, avoiding bogey is far more beneficial and making birdie.

 

All of this stuff has been covered in here multiple times 😃

This is the funny part @Krt22, You are 100% correct, I know it, I read it, I been on the forum for YEARS.....  yet when I stand there looking over an approach shot...... The mind goes everywhere BUT the obvious decision.

 

Having someone slap you, argue.... convince you, is a really weird but eye opening thought.  I 100% know it.... but never really followed it....Crazy no? LOL!🤣

[Exactice808]

10 minutes ago, Chunkitgood said:

I don’t think I ever played a round for a low total score.  It was match play with others in which everybody went for everything or playing by myself for practice.

 

I really don’t see the point of course management for a low score.  I’m not going to be on tv or other wise engaged in medal play.

 

Well, I see it but don’t agree with it.

 

I am like you, I assure you.  The reason why I haven't done this before, was I just go out and shoot the best I can that day, BUT I dont have a target score in mind.  if the best is 92 so be it, if its 77 so be it.

 

Now here is the kicker.  I play with 2 groups,  1 that is average age 65,  another group that's average age 35. 

 

The 35 year old's I am drunk by hole 4, but the averages score is like 80. (They are much better golfers, but we drink a lot) Its not a serious round, but they are talented, I would venture if we didn't drink and played serious, they would all be seriously single digits (75's)

 

The 65 year old's, its match play for the most part as the scores in that group average 95 so when I shoot an 85 its not really fun as I am beating them up or stroking 3+ a side.... I am not motivated to shoot even par, Just enough to beat them match play.

 

I want to shoot a good score... but I didnt have the motivation that is why I had to go out separately with my scratch friend without the other groups.  JUST to play an honest round no drinking, just trying and shoot low.  Put some effort, actually figure out the shots.

 

Its "Boring" as he mentioned it many times in the 18 holes, there was no gamesmanship, jabbing, poking or drinking..... It WAS BORING.  The only thing I would get out of it was a satisfying low round.  

 

Its NOT for everyone. But it does prove the point the difference your "intent" to score.  A little effort does make a difference, but you need to deicide how well you want to play.

 

 

 

 

 

[dvq9654]

21 minutes ago, Chunkitgood said:

I don’t think I ever played a round for a low total score.  It was match play with others in which everybody went for everything or playing by myself for practice.

 

I really don’t see the point of course management for a low score.  I’m not going to be on tv or other wise engaged in medal play.

 

Well, I see it but don’t agree with it.

 

This is an odd way to look at the game of golf. You don't get satisfaction from scoring well? If not, why are you playing golf? To hit hero shots twice a round? To get drunk with your buddies? It's okay if that's those are the answer, but why does it have to be all or nothing? 

 

I also agree with the premise of this thread that playing smarter leads to better scores, but I don't agree with the idea that playing smart is boring which is getting thrown around a lot. It's not boring when I hit a solid 9 iron pin high right of a sucker pin and then drain a 20 footer vs. trying to muscle a PW at that same flag and making double cause I'm trapped in the sand immediately left of the pin. I'm probably taking the nomenclature too seriously, but I think golfers suffer from this line of thinking and hold themselves back vs. adopting a methodology that is proven to be successful and can be far from boring. 

 

 

[Exactice808]

36 minutes ago, bortass said:

That's a great opportunity you had. Wish I could do something like that, lol.

 

As @Krt22mentions the bogey avoidance aspect of things has been discussed quite a bit. I think a missing piece is the how to do that based on one's game? Where is it I want to aim? Do I need to mess with changing trajectories? Etc. I understand the limitations of my game but what can i do to maximize what I got? It sounds like that's what you got a look at!

I will say I am lucky to have a good player to lean on.  Its funny I play with him all the time, BUT I am not paying attention to his course management or his shot selection.  I am in Awe of his Raw distance and shot making ability.  This is NO different then watching Pro's on TV.  We are watching their Highlights the best parts of their game, We are NOT watching their grind, the management.  I think this is where mid cappers like myself get a false sense of golf.  This is where amateur's think we can get Birdies all day everyday,  where again Pro's are not looking at birdies, they are eliminating Bogey or worse as mentioned prior. 

 

I am thinking Birdie in the WORST way.

 

Next would be the manipulation,  I now realize I mess around with too many shots.....I mean I go to the range to "drill" a repeatable swing, so why would I try to "change" it mid round, its so dumb....(Obvious, but seemingly not able to recognize that on the course)

 

Again for me this was a pretty big eye opener for me.  I wonder if this will creep into my averages and help lower my over all scoring.......

 

 

 

[Exactice808]

13 minutes ago, dvq9654 said:

 

This is an odd way to look at the game of golf. You don't get satisfaction from scoring well? If not, why are you playing golf? To hit hero shots twice a round? To get drunk with your buddies? It's okay if that's those are the answer, but why does it have to be all or nothing? 

 

I also agree with the premise of this thread that playing smarter leads to better scores, but I don't agree with the idea that playing smart is boring which is getting thrown around a lot. It's not boring when I hit a solid 9 iron pin high right of a sucker pin and then drain a 20 footer vs. trying to muscle a PW at that same flag and making double cause I'm trapped in the sand immediately left of the pin. I'm probably taking the nomenclature too seriously, but I think golfers suffer from this line of thinking and hold themselves back vs. adopting a methodology that is proven to be successful and can be far from boring. 

 

 

 

The interpretation of boring, is a catch 22.  Boring was a term used in comparison to our normal rounds.  Again with the young guys, there is a lot of drinking (we usually drink about 10-15+ beers each per round, and shot gunning due to a bet) There is a lot of trash talking and hero shots for "closest" to the pin, or birdies you drink. So there is a lot of "aggression" during those rounds.

 

Compared to the round that I played with him,  It was NOT full of Adrenaline, but satisfying shots and satisfying pars,  but "Boring" compared to our normal rounds.

 

So making Par per se is not boring,  but Off the tee box, fairway, approach for GIR and then 2 putt for par is "routine".  

 

He was trying to lower my tension by term of boring, rather than say a 72 is boring. I think his intent for using the word was to prove I didnt need to have hero shots to shoot well.  Hope that makes sense?😃

Edited April 19, 2022 by Exactice808

[Mudguard]

56 minutes ago, Chunkitgood said:

I don’t think I ever played a round for a low total score.  It was match play with others in which everybody went for everything or playing by myself for practice.

 

I really don’t see the point of course management for a low score.  I’m not going to be on tv or other wise engaged in medal play.

 

Well, I see it but don’t agree with it.

 

That is an unusual point of view, I'm not sure I'd bother playing if I didn't try play well. I think a big part of golf is how well you deal with mistakes. Nothing worse than having a big number on the first hole but almost nothing better than grinding out a good number after a poor start. 

We have a short par four seventh hole, all over water, it's either a long iron/hybrid up the fairway, or well hit driver straight at it, all carry. If there is no wind I can get there a little to spare. But the weather means it's only on maybe half the time, less so if I haven't hit driver well. So I think I might have a go 20% of the time. A friend has a go 100% of the time even though he can't carry the water, but one day the planets will align and you never know. I'd hate to think what his stroke average is on that hole. 

[Precis1on]

We all have our hooks into this game. Some guys grip and rip with their buddies and enjoy the challenge without the score, some of us grind out every little advantage we can to score low and lower our handicap. There’s satisfaction in partaking in both. 
 

Outside of just pure talent, course management is really important for those grinding down to scratch.

[scooterhd2]

1 hour ago, bortass said:

That's a great opportunity you had. Wish I could do something like that, lol.

 

As @Krt22mentions the bogey avoidance aspect of things has been discussed quite a bit. I think a missing piece is the how to do that based on one's game? Where is it I want to aim? Do I need to mess with changing trajectories? Etc. I understand the limitations of my game but what can i do to maximize what I got? It sounds like that's what you got a look at!

 

Its fair that one might consider double bogey avoidance depending on your skill level. But the concepts still remain the same. Most higher handicaps can drop 5 shots just with better planning. You want to avoid big trouble so that you do not blowup the score card. You need to identify the distance, be familiar with your shot pattern and most common misses, analyze the conditions, understand expectations, formulate your shot plan and target, and then fully commit and execute. 

 

Example. 115 yard approach shot on a par 4. You've got a great flat lie in the middle of the fairway. The pin is tucked back right and its on a raised tier. If you have played this hole before you know its near impossible to make birdie unless you get up on the correct tier. Anything middle of the green generally rolls back down the hill and to the left, staying on the green but much further from the pin. This is a really tempting pin to go for.

 

 

 

Now we need to analyze our shot pattern. What club do you we use for 115, what does your dispersion pattern look like? Do you generally hit fades or draws? Is your miss short right, or a long and left pull? Maybe thin that runs out but doesnt carry hazards? Understand that from this distance PGA tour players are averaging 80% GIR. 1 in 5 balls from the best players in the world is going to miss this green. Even if they hit the green the average proximity to the hole is 18 feet. So lets not come to the conclusion that we are going to stuff it for a birdie putt every time. 

 

I've outlined the areas in red that are really tough for a mid handicapper. The flag is back right and anything right is short sided on dormant bermuda with the green sloping away from you. Likewise long and right the green slopes away and is very fast. The front left bunker is not bad for the better sand player, but for most, the entire bunker is a difficult up and down. If you hit an area in the red, you are very likely to drop a shot and considering the red area covers half of the yellow dispersion area, going for the pin is a bad decision for this player, even with a wedge in hand. 

 

Now the orange shot area is the exact same size. It has minimized the trouble to the right. Its missed the bunker and allowed a thin shot to roll on. The area to the left and back of the green slopes down toward the green so misses have a chance of getting closer. Anything in the rough gives plenty of green to work with and creates more flat or uphill chipping possibilities. Instead of 115, its playing the hole near the back distance at 123 to account for the shorter miss. Theres a very small area that overlaps the dangerous areas. The only problem is, the target is off the green. A perfect shot does not give a perfect result. Thats where you have to trust the process and commit yourself fully to the shot. Even at 115 yards, you are not even aiming at the green and thats okay. You have to know you put your shot pattern in the best spot possible. 

 

 

 

 

[SNIPERBBB]

3 hours ago, bortass said:

That's a great opportunity you had. Wish I could do something like that, lol.

 

As @Krt22mentions the bogey avoidance aspect of things has been discussed quite a bit. I think a missing piece is the how to do that based on one's game? Where is it I want to aim? Do I need to mess with changing trajectories? Etc. I understand the limitations of my game but what can i do to maximize what I got? It sounds like that's what you got a look at!

Big thing is when you're looking at decisions on what to hit, or not hit, and where to aim,  you're basically playing for where your normal or slightly miss will actually end up as great results and that perfect shot doesnt go into trouble.

 

I think Tom Watson once described it has placing a Field Goal Post up. One upright is your perfect shot, the other is your slightly worse miss. Your miss in splitting the uprights.

Edited April 20, 2022 by SNIPERBBB

[SNIPERBBB]

2 hours ago, Mudguard said:

 

That is an unusual point of view, I'm not sure I'd bother playing if I didn't try play well. I think a big part of golf is how well you deal with mistakes. Nothing worse than having a big number on the first hole but almost nothing better than grinding out a good number after a poor start. 

We have a short par four seventh hole, all over water, it's either a long iron/hybrid up the fairway, or well hit driver straight at it, all carry. If there is no wind I can get there a little to spare. But the weather means it's only on maybe half the time, less so if I haven't hit driver well. So I think I might have a go 20% of the time. A friend has a go 100% of the time even though he can't carry the water, but one day the planets will align and you never know. I'd hate to think what his stroke average is on that hole. 

Thats part of the beauty of match play, you can have a horrendous hole but it doesnt kill your chance to win.

 

Golf for the most of its history was a match play game. It wasnt until(relatively) recently that most golf is medal(stroke) play.  Lot of leagues play a form of match play where you get a point for winning the hole or a half point for halves. End of the year, player/team with the most points wins, or makes the playoffs.

Edited April 20, 2022 by SNIPERBBB

[Mudguard]

36 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Thats part of the beauty of match play, you can have a horrendous hole but it doesnt kill your chance to win.

 

Golf for the most of its history was a match play game. It wasnt until(relatively) recently that most golf is medal(stroke) play.  Lot of leagues play a form of match play where you get a point for winning the hole or a half point for halves. End of the year, player/team with the most points wins, or makes the playoffs.

 

Of course. But 90% of these posts start talking about match-play and then you find out it's skins, a match for each nine's totals and so on. So it boils down to some hybrid game. I play true match-play in two events per year, club champs and the net version. So if I'm lucky maybe a dozen times a year. I work all week so I want a counting score each Saturday (let's not get into the score card submission rule we have here for matchplay ugh) we generally play stableford three times a month and a medal once. That said, we tend to finish out provided we don't hold anyone up and if the group are all single figures. 

[T_Golf_23]

This is my third year playing this game, but come from a really athletic background. 
 

my buddy who won most improved player in 2020 at our club, told me to drop my handicap from a 20 to single to single digits - learn to hit the ball long. 
 

So I did. My total driving distance was about 220 yards in 2020, up to 270 on 2021 and now approaching 280. I hit irons (carry) as long as I used to hit my driver total distance. 
 

Little thought to course management. 
 

handicap dropped from a 20 to 9, from April 2021 to September 2021.

 

To go lower from here is all about course management. I second the avoid bogey mindset, but it’s so complex. You can take lessons to work on your swing. It’s hard to take lessons to teach course management. 
 

As I have started to think about how to manage courses, I need different shots in my bag. One of the best pieces of advice I have been given is to keep the ball low to the ground….particularly where so many amateurs use flop shots, the scratch guys flight balls down. Use bump and runs. Use 9 irons around the greens on the fringe. 
 

I did realize that doing this rendered my super hot faced GI irons obsolete. Was playing cobra Rad speed. 
 

Spent the winter on the course learning to play with player CBs and Blades. The control to manage my game around the green is taking me to new lows. I know realize I also love trying new irons out. 
 

That said - not getting my tour card….. ever - so it’s fun to go out with a group of guys that hits long balls and have a little fun and go for greens and take the chance, another group of guys likes to play games - Bingo Bongo Bango - match play - Snake…. Etc…. Rotating tees…..5 club challenge 

 

I also compete in events, match play and stroke. 
 

It’s fun to play and have a blast playing the same course in different ways. 
 

I think the greatest thing about this game is that we can all make it what we want to be and that is different for each of us. 

[bobfoster]

I have been a scratch golfer in the past (like, years ago). Course management does matter, but really, to hit and stay at that level (for me at least) just requires playing golf. A lot of golf. When I was shooting that well, it was during periods where I was playing at least two or three times a week, hitting the range a couple times a week, and obsessively practicing putting. But life and business (and age) get in the way. 

 

That said, however, I will agree that learning to think one's way around the course is critical to decent scores at every level. Will likely never be scratch again, I'm not nearly as long as I was (in my mid 60s now), and only get out once or twice a week, but can still mostly shoot mid-high 70s to low-mid 80s (don't bother to keep a formal cap anymore). Course management really can mitigate the effects of declining physical abilities. Experience, and playing smart increases over time, even as distance decreases. 

 

So, advice from a (formerly) scratch? To weekenders?

 

1. Play within your real game, not your imagined game. Get ego out of the way. If your 150 club is a 6i, feel no embarrassment about hitting an easy, comfortable 5i, and not try to hit a crazy 7i just because of what the people you are playing with will think. The size of your (um) "thing" is measured by the score on your card, not by the number on your club. One of the biggest mistakes I see beginners make is leaving things way short. Taking an extra club and swinging smooth will always be better than taking a lesser club and trying to swing out of your shoes. 

 

2. As others have said, minimize blowups. On every hole I play, I'm shooting for something. On a lot of holes - especially on courses I play a lot - I'm going for simply par. Quite content with that. There's a few where even par will be great, and then others that are my "birdie holes". Smart golf is picking your shot. Do not try to birdie every hole - a lot of pars, and a couple birdies (with no blowups) produces a great round of golf.

 

Pushing this thought even further, if I completely hose something off a tee, I'll deliberately play conservatively for bogey, rather than get nuts and try some high risk shot for par (that so often turns into a double or triple). Look at the average beginner or weekender, and the difference between 110 and 90 is often due to just two or three blowup holes. If you are in the weeds on a par 4, just take your medicine. Don't try a miracle shot through trees, just pop it sideways onto the fairway, and shoot for a 5. Important to understand this. Settling for a low-risk 5 will nearly always be better than trying for a high risk 4 (that is much more likely to turn into a 7 or 8). 

 

3. Single biggest course management component? Understanding you will nearly always miss. Even the best in the world. I always visualize what my ideal ball flight will be - distance, trajectory, shot shape - draw or fade, apex - on any given stroke. Also clear that I'll likely never hit it exactly as I visualize it. So on setup for any shot, I'm looking at two things - where I want to hit it, and where I want to miss it. One of the biggest mistakes I see beginners that do not get course management make.

 

So, last weekend. Playing a favorite course. Big lake on the left. River about 180 out, to carry, 220. Dogleg left. Smart play ... a 6i with a slight draw. Risky play? Trying to fly the river (in fact, little reward in the risk/reward). Don't want to try that, a hard 5i draw up to the river that would leave 120 in, but risk water. I shot an easy 6i, a little fat - wound up 140 out, but in the middle of the fairway (I missed, but I missed in a very calculated fashion). 1st guy I played with, driver - one in the water, one sliced into the woods. Second guy, tried to put it up to the river's edge - also wet. So ... I was quite content with par. Guys I played with? a bogey and a triple.

 

So OP - that is course management. I'm old - cannot even remotely hit as long as some of the teens and 20-somethings I play with (in fact, I'm astounded at how amazing some of this new generation of young golfers are). But a surprising amount of the time, they are buying me drinks on the 19th hole, because of the number on my scorecard. Not because I think I'm that good, but because I am smart enough to not be that bad (if that makes any sense). 

 

[DaveGoodrich]

Everybody's wired differently. I preach a lot of the same things as the OP's scratch buddy, but most of the guys I play with see that approach as boring.  Personally, I love "boring" golf.  I find the risk-management part of golf to be it's own challenge, and I find it rewarding to shoot a decent score, even when I'm not hitting it that well.  Of course I enjoy hitting it well even more, and I can be a little more aggressive when I am, but the same principals still apply.  Even at a pretty high level of play, avoiding bogies is way easier than making birdies.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hawkeye77]

14 hours ago, aenemated said:

 

Haha I got a similar feeling; like every birdie putt I missed let Dave down somehow. 

 

Bummed I didn't get a photo with him. But I do have a couple like so:

 

 

Carrying my bag past The Spectacles. 🙂

Love it!  

 

Dennis ---- my man!

 

 

 

[MelloYello]

20 hours ago, Exactice808 said:

Hey GolfWRX. I wanted to share a situation that finally happened.  The theory has been around but not sure if anyone has tried it, nor effectively took advantage of such opportunity.

 

I am a mid capper on any given day (10hdcp).  Lowest I ever shot was a 74.  Buddies have always said I had potential, but ego and just a different mind set keeps me from going lower and or maintaining lower scores.

 

A scratch golfer offered a while back to take me to the course to manage my game for 18 holes to see how low we could go, stars aligned and it happened.

 

We went to a fairly difficult course in comparison to what we normally play.  Secondly wind was insane 10mph average with gust up to 30+mph, we played white tees as that's what I normally do, he always plays blue, but again the idea was confidence boosting to shoot as low as possible.   I shot an 80 that day, but that doesn't tell the whole story as to me that 80 felt like 72.  What I mean is Strokes gained and overall scoring proved some context.

 

General logged Averages (2 years of data)

 

GIR -38%

Putting - 1.9 per hole

 

Birdies -6%

Par Avg - 38%

Bogey - 36%

Double - 14%

Worse -6% 

 

 

Scratched Managed Round (Overall all scoring, 13 pars, 2 bogeys, 3 doubles)

 

GIR- 50%

Putts -1.7

 

Birdies - 0%

Pars - 72%

Bogey- 11%

Double - 17%

Triple -0%

 

 

The scratch golfer noticeably increased certain statistics that helped to lower/manage my score better. 

 

1) The BIGGEST significant jump was the Pars,  going from 38% to 72% basically doubled my Par averages. Why was this?  He managed the way I played the approach shots.  Told me specifically where to aim, and many holes it was different from how I would normally aim (Many times I would want to aim much closer to the pin, compared to where he said was actually further, BUT the results were better obviously)

 

2) The next was completely eliminating triple or worse. (There was never a time where triple was in play as he managed my expectations to take any risk that would put me in a triple, weird feeling as my average say at least 1 per round)

 

3) From there the next stat that tied it together was the GIR,  going from 38% to 50% implied better approaches.  Thus reducing putts as well to 1.7 from 1.9. (He had me club up pretty much every shot, but slow my swing down, it was ego bursting but the results don't lie,  Hitting full shots was a hit or miss, hitting 3/4 shots with a longer club netted me higher GIR averages.) This got me on the green sometimes pretty close for a good birdie chance, or easy 2 putt.

 

What did increase slightly was the doubles, I took 3.  But there is 1 excuse and 1 general cause..  

 

1) We both took doubles on the same hole (as it was that tough), the wind was blowing so hard that both our tees shots ended in the water,  the cross wind took us both by surprise, I aimed at the left edge of the fairway as water was right (50y from my starting/aiming point and it still drifted into the water)  Had to drop, and wind was howling, so took a double, cant help just a tough situation.

 

2) The 2 other doubles were just me hitting bad shots, not a management but an execution error on my part no excuse just hit a bad shot)

 

Its interesting how a scratch golfer mind works, In theory its easy to understand, but when you are standing on the course playing the hole, my mind is always attack mode..... the scratch golfer is NOT, its where is the best place to land the ball to 1), make par and 2), if I get it close or get lucky making a longer putt, I could make a birdie. Its not ALWAYS Birdie Birdie Birdie.  I honestly thoughts thats what the Pro's and scratch golfers do with their ability?  (I guess I was totally wrong?)

 

 

Did this experiment help? Absolutely if you have never done it, I would suggest it.  Getting inside the mind of a good player, trying to emulate and take away their good habits. Trying to figure out your bad habits that you need to cast away.

 

 

 

 

TL : DR. - What I learned from the Scratch golfer that I will apply on future rounds

 

1) Off the Tee box,  into wind, I would try to manipulate the flight every time.  Hit it low, Hit it high, wind coming from X direction, try to hit the opposite, (Fade/Draw).   He said unless you absolutely HAVE to (Hazard or OB), why are you changing/manipulating your swing. Just swing normal. Play what's consistent that keeps you in the fairway. just adjust your aiming point for cross winds.  Dont "F" around with helping or hurting wind just hit it normal and get in the fairway. Simple minded, but somehow I caught myself trying to mess around with the swing on the tee box.

 

2) They are NOT playing Birdies 100% of the time, they are playing pars 99% of the time, (Mindset) If the approach gets in close, that brings in birdies,  If not its generally an easy 2 putt for par and move on.

 

3) Up and downs, "At worse, where will I be"  Hitting the shot to get close but leave yourself the best position.  I would always aim more aggressively,  He is having me aim in place that if I make great, but if I miss, I have a way better comeback putt. 

 

 

 

This was fun to say the least, I am sure we will try this again, and hopefully get a real confidence boost when there is not 30+mph gust.  Here is hoping to reaching a new PR. 

 

 

Golf is the simple man's sport. It really is. The less a person thinks and the more they just plod around hitting the ball to safe spots (and not worrying about extraneous things like the scorecard) the better they seem to do. 

 

My #1 goal in golf is to eliminate stress. The more I find the fairway, the more I hit the fat of the green, the more easy 2-putts I have from 20-feet out, the more tap-ins I leave myself...the more I'm shocked how effortless it is. 

 

As I always say, good golf is easy, bad golf is hard. 😉

Edited April 20, 2022 by MelloYello