Diffusing a cheater

[shanx]

My college roomie and I play golf together every spring/fall, usually the spring trip is down south (we are in NY) and the fall trip is upstate. Over the years we have added some of my roomie's work/golf league buddies, it's made the trip more fun and I have become friends with his "crew".

 

One guy is a beginner, kind of a hack, but a fun guy to play with, he has a very animated personality, always has a good story. Over the past few trips, his scores have been getting lower and lower, but his game really hasn't changed much. His short game is really good, he always seems to chip it close to the hole.

 

I'm a 6 to 9 handicap, shoot in the low 80s, high 70s. I have been playing forever, I try to play close to the rules as possible (will take a mully from time to time). The group is made up of mid level players, some are newer to the game, there is about 8 of us.

 

We just had our spring outing in Myrtle Beach this weekend, I didn't play that great (none of us do, we usually haven't played much before this trip), but the "hack" had the lowest scores. After the first day, I decided to keep an eye on him to see what was going on.

 

He "forgets" penalty strokes, I called him out on it twice. He "aw shucked" me both times, and added the penalties after the fact. Since he is a beginner, I shrugged it off as just not knowing the rules..

 

He moves his ball closer to the hole on every green. I saw him do it at least five times, it was blatant. He hits his shots and then "marks" his ball. When no-one is looking, he will lift the mark with his putter and move the ball closer to the hole. One round, he didn't have a ballmarker, so he used his putter, and I watched him shuttle the ball closer to the hole on numerous occasions. I usually don't care what others do, but he would often gloat about his lower score, or rub it in the face of all of us when he "won" with the days lowest score.

 

I did confront him about it on the last day, after I watched him move his ball 4 feet closer to the hole. He actually complained about someone taking a mulligan on the tee to tie him for his "par". I told him that I saw him move his ball marker 4 feet closer to the hole, and not count the "stroke". He was flummoxed, and went on and on about how he always forgets ballmarkers, and how he needed to do a better job because the league won't allow that, bla bla bla. Then I saw him do it again, at least 4 times. When he proclaimed he was "champion of the weekend", I lashed into him again, making for a very uncomfortable last night at dinner.

 

I really don't want to play with him again, but he will be on our trips in the future..

 

Am I being too silly about this?

How would you diffuse this situation going forward?

Edited April 26, 2022 by shanx

[djmohab2]

Unless you guys are playing for money/prizes, I'd try to just not be bothered by his liberal implementation of the rule book. What does the rest of your group think? Are they okay with his antics, or are they thinking more along the lines of you here?

[aenemated]

On 4/24/2022 at 10:14 PM, Big Cat 3 said:

Irwin looks at him and says “ The sooner you figure out I don’t give a f*** how you play ... the better off you will be out here “ and kept walking. 

 

That tremendous Hale Irwin quote I just learned about sums it up pretty well. 

 

Unless you're playing for money, which is a different story. But if it's just for poops and giggles; who cares? 

[Abh159]

3 minutes ago, aenemated said:

Unless you're playing for money, which is a different story. But if it's just for poops and giggles; who cares? 

 

This is basically my opinion also. It doesn't sound like you all are actually playing for anything besides fun so if he wants to call himself "champion for the weekend " then who cares?!

 

You also mentioned that everyone in the group (yourself included) "takes a mully from time to time" so the reality is none of you are playing by the rules. I'm not sure I understand how your cheating is all fine and good but his is a major issue... Either everyone plays by the rules or no one does. You can't really have it both ways, and personally I think it was a bit of a ______ move on your part to lash out at him over it.

[dugue4]

When hes watching, mark a ball that is in 2 putt range about 2" from the cup, then announce I'm using the George (I'm gonna guess his name, he sounds like a George) ball marking method.

[caniac6]

Just don’t let him come on the trip.

[ChipStrokes]

personally, i’d leave things where they are. you said your piece, how it affects your trips is up to you now. 

[robcha]

I don't think I'd let it bother me until you mentioned the fact that he "brags" about winning. If he's openly gloating while "cheating" then I'd also be a little upset with the situation. 

 

If I were you and I was in his group (again somehow), I'd just call him out every time he does something. Instead of mulling it over and getting into your head throughout the round (keeping track of x many times), just say your piece when it occurs and forget about it. If he changes, great. If not, at least it's out there and 2 other people heard it. 

[ChipStrokes]

4 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

You also mentioned that everyone in the group (yourself included) "takes a mully from time to time" so the reality is none of you are playing by the rules. I'm not sure I understand how your cheating is all fine and good but his is a major issue... Either everyone plays by the rules or no one does.

there’s a pronounced difference between a group of friends deciding a breakfast ball is ok and one guy blatantly cheating and then declaring himself the winner of a competition he was having by himself. 

[DFS PFD]

Let him do his thing. Odds are you're not the only one that notices, and others will notice more and more. Let him embarrass himself, spare yourself the awkward position of being the rules marshal within your buddies "crew". 

[2bGood]

You either play by the (same) rules or you don't. If players have the option of taking mulligans when they want, then you don't have a fair playing field. 

 

If your group feel you need modified rules then add the modification(s) and agree to them as a group. I am not a big fan of this, but as long as everyone competing has the same rules it works. ie:

 

-each player gets one mulligan a side

-all putts inside the leather are good

-OB is played as red penalty area. 

-etc

 

However if some cheating is okay- it makes it pretty hard to draw a clear line on what is right and what is wrong. 

 

 

Edited April 27, 2022 by 2bGood

[shanx]

Good stuff here, I will use it...

 

We don't play for money, although he is the one to suggest it every day on the first tee. Maybe the fact that nobody wants to gamble with this guy is because they know he cheats.

 

I did propose adding a "team play" element to the weekend next time, we all watched the Zurich and the format resonated a bit more because it was a bit different that the normal stoke play format we use.

 

Admittedly, I am miffed at this because the guy beat me all weekend, and went out of his way to gloat about it many times.. maybe I'll just shrug it off going forward, I only play with him twice a year.

[Nixhex524]

If he's cheating then gloating about beating you, in reality, he isn't beating you so don't let it get to you.  Maybe you should play him for money.  Then EVERYTHING counts.  See how he holds up then, but you will not be out of line for calling him on it.  If it's just for fun, nothing really for you to gain.  Also, totally fine IMO to acknowledge his cheating at every turn if that's the way you want to play it, but you can't be taking mulligans elsewhere.  

 

I say, play him for actual money and make him accountable.

[ChipStrokes]

5 minutes ago, shanx said:

We don't play for money, although he is the one to suggest it every day on the first tee.

id take him up on it and hold him to the rules. 

[MtlJeff]

If you're not really playing for anything, agree with others that say basically just let him do what he wants. Everyone knows who the cheaters are, just try to enjoy your trip and the camaraderie etc

 

If you're playing for something, call him out on the cheating every single time until he stops.

 

One time in a fun game i picked up a 2 footer with a friend of mine. We were only playing for beers LOL. He was like "i didn't give you that"....what could i say? He hadn't given it. I felt stupid and gave him the hole. But i didn't make that mistake again LOL. Of course i then won the match and ordered a double Glenmorangie 21 and shived his tires. But i was very polite about it

[MtlJeff]

7 minutes ago, ChipStrokes said:

id take him up on it and hold him to the rules. 

 

yes totally agree with this.

[shanx]

I texted the other two guys in our foursome with some of this sentiments here.

 

They are aware of his cheating, have been for years, he does it in their corporate league too.

They were surprised it took me so long to figure it out, lol.

They were happy I said something to him, but don't really care enough to escalate. They will never play him for money.

Agreed that we will add an element to future outings to take the burden of scoring off, maybe team or match play.

[NJBigFish22]

I used to play with a guy that cheated and we played for money, I refused to pay him and his own friend backed me up.  We continued to play but never for money.

 

As for this guy, I would go buy a cheap trophy with a golfer on it.  When he starts talking how he is the champion of the weekend hand it to him.  On the plaque, have it say Champion Cheater of the Year

[Break68]

6 minutes ago, NJBigFish22 said:

I used to play with a guy that cheated and we played for money, I refused to pay him and his own friend backed me up.  We continued to play but never for money.

 

As for this guy, I would go buy a cheap trophy with a golfer on it.  When he starts talking how he is the champion of the weekend hand it to him.  On the plaque, have it say Champion Cheater of the Year

THIS!!

[caniac6]

Tell him he has to buy everybody a beer when he gets called for cheating.

[aenemated]

49 minutes ago, shanx said:

Admittedly, I am miffed at this because the guy beat me all weekend, and went out of his way to gloat about it many times.. maybe I'll just shrug it off going forward, I only play with him twice a year.

 

Ask yourself "What would Costanza do?"

 

[Soloman1]

As the old saying goes, you really get to know someone by playing golf with them.

 

Might be fun for you guys to play a round where everyone played by his rules. Everyone move their mark 4’ closer and see what he says. Forget the ball in the lake.

 

”I had a gross 82 and a net George of 68!”

 

Anyone else wonder what he does for a living?

[lchang]

I don’t get how someone tries to stealthily moving their ball four feet closer to the hole on the green?!  🤯

[Mudguard]

I've had a few times. The ugly part is having the conversation. But nothing will change otherwise. I find the attitude that just because they're not playing for money means it's unimportant. Scores and handicaps are a source of pride. 

Next time he moves a marker etc watch and call it out then and there. And don't sign his card if he gets upset about it.

[Dannyboy44]

I have a group of 8 that go to myrtle this time of year as well. You need to have set rules. If your letting people take mulligans your opening it up for him to do whatever he wants. We do a packet with all the courses, tee times, pairings, rules etc. We hand it out a few wks. before the trip for everyone to look over. 

Edited April 26, 2022 by Dannyboy44

[shanx]

3 minutes ago, lchang said:

I don’t get how someone tries to stealthily moving their ball four feet closer to the hole on the green?!  🤯

 

This is what I observed.

 

Marking the ball with the toe of his putter, picking up the ball to clean it, taking a few steps forward and dropping the ball to putt it. He leaves the putter resting on his leg, and hobbles up a few steps as others are busy on the green.

 

Marking the ball with something imaginary, like a pebble or leaf.  Then moving around with the ball in his hand to check the break from other angles, returning to his "spot" a few feet from his original position.

 

"Scooping" the ball mark and carrying it with his putter closer to the hole. When he does use a marker, its a thicker coin or chip type. He leans on the edge of the marker with his putter, the marker pops into the cavity, he slides a few steps. This looks well practiced, I literally saw him move his marker 6 to 10 feet closer to the pin at least 3 times.

 

"Distract and move" - one hole was by water, and a few turtles were sitting on a branch hanging over the water, one fell in. "Look at that, the turtles are jumping off the stick", everyone turned to look, he moved his marker 3 feet.

 

Shuffling the ball closer to the hole with his putter - I saw him chunk a ball off the green, it landed on the fringe. He takes his putter and shuffles the ball slightly to the green, then marks it. This was when I called him out on it, we all saw him duff his chip and then the ball is suddenly on the green.

 

Yeah, this dude got in my head the last day. These kind of things wore on me all weekend, and I felt like I had to say something...

[ChipStrokes]

18 minutes ago, lchang said:

I don’t get how someone tries to stealthily moving their ball four feet closer to the hole on the green?!  🤯

it wasn’t quite 4ft, but i played with a guy last week who cheated his mark on every green. 

 

he’d place his marker in front of his ball, lift it, and then replace his ball in front of the marker. so weird. 

 

we weren’t playing a match, just singles paired together, so it didn’t bother me beyond thinking it was comical to watch this guy cheat 4” off his putt when he’s 40 feet away putting for double. 

 

finally on 11 i said to him “hey matt, i’ve never seen someone mark their ball like that, very interesting!”

 

he didn’t do it again for the rest of the round 

[GLF4EVR]

Kind of have my own past experience with this.  Currently, there are 2 guys that I have played every weekend (possible), with for 8-9 years running.  Several years ago we had another guy join in that fits the description.  Would not count penalty's, would take mulligan's, fluff the lie or even just move the ball for a better lie.  Then at the end go on about his score.  It was the bragging about the score that got to us.  After 4-5 rounds of this he does start to mention money.  The next time out, the 3 of us have already plotted how to suggest a money game.  He jumps at it.  By the 6th hole, he leaves in a big huff because all of us have been counting every stoke & adjusting his score for it.  Last time he played with us.....& moved away by the time the next season was upon us.

 

Now granted, anyone of us to this day knows we can take a mully anytime we want to & not worry about it.  Usually together we are trying to put up a good score, but then you have those days also.  If the course is not busy & you hit a bad shot, just let the guys know you are hitting another ball (just to prove to yourself you can hit the shot).  If you decide to play the second ball.....we are helping the guy find the first one.  If someone is having a good round, don't say anything to jinx them!

[shanx]

The funny thing is, one of the guys bought us all fancy ballmarkers on the final day, game them out on the first tee, and said "you all know how to use these, I just wanted a nice souvenir to remember the trip".

[Hawkeye77]

2 hours ago, shanx said:

I texted the other two guys in our foursome with some of this sentiments here.

 

They are aware of his cheating, have been for years, he does it in their corporate league too.

They were surprised it took me so long to figure it out, lol.

They were happy I said something to him, but don't really care enough to escalate. They will never play him for money.

Agreed that we will add an element to future outings to take the burden of scoring off, maybe team or match play.

There you go!