Kevin Na and Grayson Murray Altercation

[PhilsFanDrew]

1 hour ago, ChipStrokes said:

yeah, they're pretty rough to play with.  but unless someone can show me that Na's rounds are 30+ minutes longer than tour average, i think it's just complaining to complain.  i'd actually love to see the data on that if it was ever tracked.  let us see who's actually fast and slow out there. 

 

i think the bigger point is that Murray was home on his couch watching Na putt slowly on television haha.

 

Na had a bad case of driver yips which accounted for his slower play years ago.  He acknowledged it, privately apologized to the playing partners that may have been impacted by it, and sought help to overcome it.  Picking on Na for being slow now is like tearing down an ex drug addict who has turned their life around and has been living clean and sober. 

[ChipStrokes]

Just now, PhilsFanDrew said:

 

Na had a bad case of driver yips which accounted for his slower play years ago.  He acknowledged it, privately apologized to the playing partners that may have been impacted by it, and sought help to overcome it.  Picking on Na for being slow now is like tearing down an ex drug addict who has turned their life around and has been living clean and sober. 

yeah someone (maybe you?) posted that earlier.  

 

that's why i'm saying, i'd love it if the tour kept track of how long rounds are for each guy.  i'd be surprised if the "slow" guys are more than 15-20 minutes behind the "fast" guys 

[capking]

On 6/14/2022 at 10:21 AM, soap1984 said:

Luckily Na won't have to put up with him over the weekend. 

Is he going to the LIV draft early?

[ga_pike]

32 minutes ago, PhilsFanDrew said:

 

Na had a bad case of driver yips which accounted for his slower play years ago.  He acknowledged it, privately apologized to the playing partners that may have been impacted by it, and sought help to overcome it.  Picking on Na for being slow now is like tearing down an ex drug addict who has turned their life around and has been living clean and sober. 

 

GM's criticism of Na's slow play has nothing to do with his previous driver yips and everything to do with his current putting routine.  To use your analogy, Na may have quit doing coke, but he's still doing meth and heroin.  

[PhilsFanDrew]

12 minutes ago, ga_pike said:

 

GM's criticism of Na's slow play has nothing to do with his previous driver yips and everything to do with his current putting routine.  To use your analogy, Na may have quit doing coke, but he's still doing meth and heroin.  

 

I've followed Na live for a couple holes within the last 3 seasons and his putting routine didn't seem to take that long.  He's not on a Brandt Snedeker pace with his putting routine but he's no worse than Dustin Johnson who typically plays pretty fast from tee to green but slows down a bit over putts. 

[PaulCar65]

14 minutes ago, ga_pike said:

 

GM's criticism of Na's slow play has nothing to do with his previous driver yips and everything to do with his current putting routine.  To use your analogy, Na may have quit doing coke, but he's still doing meth and heroin.  

Then he should be calling out DJ. His putting routine makes Na look like the flash.

[Dr. Block]

I'm sure all the guys on the slower side would be happy to play faster if they could pull it off. Golf is hard. It takes some serious grinding to shoot the scores they have to shoot to stay exempt and to finish comfortably in the money. 

 

I'm also pretty confident that further analysis hasn't been provided because the majority of them play equally slowly. There are many pivotal moments that need to be negotiated carefully to maintain an under par card when you make mistakes and put your ball in difficult places.   

 

 

[MUNIGRIT]

2 hours ago, ChipStrokes said:

yeah, they're pretty rough to play with.  but unless someone can show me that Na's rounds are 30+ minutes longer than tour average, i think it's just complaining to complain.  i'd actually love to see the data on that if it was ever tracked.  let us see who's actually fast and slow out there. 

 

i think the bigger point is that Murray was home on his couch watching Na putt slowly on television haha.

Yeah they should track players time to pull the trigger for sure! Off topic about slow players but my favorite story is the Hazeltine PGA when officials told Yang to speed up when it was TW playing slow and Yang said nope you know who is playing slow so go talk to him. It isn't me.

[chisag]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Block said:

I'm sure all the guys on the slower side would be happy to play faster if they could pull it off. Golf is hard. It takes some serious grinding to shoot the scores they have to shoot to stay exempt and to finish comfortably in the money. 

 

I'm also pretty confident that further analysis hasn't been provided because the majority of them play equally slowly. There are many pivotal moments that need to be negotiated carefully to maintain an under par card when you make mistakes and put your ball in difficult places.   

 

 

 

... Being in on some caddie player conversations on TV has been enlightening. I look at a shot that measures 159 with my rangefinder, 142 to carry a high lipped bunker and a left to right wind of around 10mph. For me a 7 iron carries the bunker easily and the sidewind will knockdown my ball by a few yards so I don't have to worry about going long ... 7 iron it is. 15 seconds max. Same scenario with a slow player and caddy:

Caddie: 42 to clear the bunker. 59 to the pin. 10mph left to right wind.
Player: So 42 to clear the bunker?
Caddie: 42. 8 iron takes it out of play.
Player: 59 to the pin. 9 keeps me short of the pin. 
Caddie: 9 brings in the bunker with a 10mph wind.
Player: So you like 8 iron?
Caddie: I do. 
Player: Wind is 10? hurting or helping?
Caddie: 10 left to right so hurting a little.
Player: I like 9 riding the wind.
Caddie: 8 won't go too far but 9 will work too if you like it. 
Player: You like 9 or 8?
Caddie: I like 8.
PLayer: OK, give me the 8.
Caddie: Put a good swing on it and trust the distance.
Player: 42 and 59 right?
Caddie: Right.
 

[Dr. Block]

2 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

 

 

... Being in on some caddie player conversations on TV has been enlightening. I look at a shot that measures 159 with my rangefinder, 142 to carry a high lipped bunker and a left to right wind of around 10mph. For me a 7 iron carries the bunker easily and the sidewind will knockdown my ball by a few yards so I don't have to worry about going long ... 7 iron it is. 15 seconds max. Same scenario with a slow player and caddy:

Caddie: 42 to clear the bunker. 59 to the pin. 10mph left to right wind.
Player: So 42 to clear the bunker?
Caddie: 42. 8 iron takes it out of play.
Player: 59 to the pin. 9 keeps me short of the pin. 
Caddie: 9 brings in the bunker with a 10mph wind.
Player: So you like 8 iron?
Caddie: I do. 
Player: Wind is 10? hurting or helping?
Caddie: 10 left to right so hurting a little.
Player: I like 9 riding the wind.
Caddie: 8 won't go too far but 9 will work too if you like it. 
Player: You like 9 or 8?
Caddie: I like 8.
PLayer: OK, give me the 8.
Caddie: Put a good swing on it and trust the distance.
Player: 42 and 59 right?
Caddie: Right.
 

Your 7 iron (with the wrong strike, height and spin) quite possibly lands in the right place and ends up in the worst place. They are discussing what club, shape, swing, thought, produces the result they need to get to a tournament pin on a tournament firm green while producing the acceptable miss if they don't execute. Not easy, what they do.  They just make it look that way.  

[ChipStrokes]

48 minutes ago, ga_pike said:

 

GM's criticism of Na's slow play has nothing to do with his previous driver yips and everything to do with his current putting routine.  To use your analogy, Na may have quit doing coke, but he's still doing meth and heroin.  

 

33 minutes ago, PaulCar65 said:

Then he should be calling out DJ. His putting routine makes Na look like the flash.

even if their putting routines are glacial, does it matter?  over the course of 18 holes are they slower than the field?  if they're not out of position, then i don't see a problem.  

 

it's not like these guys are squeezing in a morning round before going to their kid's soccer game.  

[ChipStrokes]

1 minute ago, Dr. Block said:

Your 7 iron (with the wrong strike, height and spin) quite possibly lands in the right place and ends up in the worst place. They are discussing what club, shape, swing, thought, produces the result they need to get to a tournament pin on a tournament firm green while producing the acceptable miss if they don't execute. Not easy, what they do.  They just make it look that way.  

yup.  

 

no issues with a one or two minute long conversation between player and caddie.  i happen to find them fascinating.  in the same vein, when i'm at work negotiating a contract, there's no harm in an extra email or two back and forth to make sure all terms are correct.  

 

then there's me on the course with my lizard brain going "170, 8i, let it fly."

[chisag]

9 minutes ago, Dr. Block said:

Your 7 iron (with the wrong strike, height and spin) quite possibly lands in the right place and ends up in the worst place. They are discussing what club, shape, swing, thought, produces the result they need to get to a tournament pin on a tournament firm green while producing the acceptable miss if they don't execute. Not easy, what they do.  They just make it look that way.  

 

 

... If it happened in a quicker conversation I get it. But it is looooong and drawn out with plenty of pauses for the slow players and it seems to happen with every shot, not just a difficult one. 

[ChipStrokes]

3 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

 

... If it happened in a quicker conversation I get it. But it is looooong and drawn out with plenty of pauses for the slow players and it seems to happen with every shot, not just a difficult one. 

are they actually slower over the course of 18 holes though?

[mosesgolf]

Na is not slow on the greens. He is no different than most. How about that crazy Aimpoint antics from Keegan Bradley?  That is SLOW. 

Or Furyk?

Their antics were excruciating. 

[Frankensteins Monster]

3 hours ago, mosesgolf said:

Na is not slow on the greens. He is no different than most. How about that crazy Aimpoint antics from Keegan Bradley?  That is SLOW. 

Or Furyk?

Their antics were excruciating. 

Berger…

[betarhoalphadelta]

3 hours ago, ChipStrokes said:

 

even if their putting routines are glacial, does it matter?  over the course of 18 holes are they slower than the field?  if they're not out of position, then i don't see a problem.  

 

it's not like these guys are squeezing in a morning round before going to their kid's soccer game.  

 

Well, being slower than the average PGA tour field is not a difficult bar to clear. They play in threesomes on pre-cut days and twosomes on Sunday and it's damn near impossible for them to get around in less than 4-4:30. I get around my public course in a weekend foursome in barely over 4 hours, and that's with my hacker buddies shooting in the 90s, 25+ strokes each over what a typical tour player takes. You load my course up with twosomes and I'll bet pace of play is barely over 3 hours. 

 

I do feel that players should be judged on whether they're falling behind, and if some players make up their slow preshot routine with walking faster, then so be it. 

 

But let's not act like the field is fast. The entire Tour could stand to pick up the pace quite a bit. 

[ChipStrokes]

1 hour ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Well, being slower than the average PGA tour field is not a difficult bar to clear. They play in threesomes on pre-cut days and twosomes on Sunday and it's damn near impossible for them to get around in less than 4-4:30. I get around my public course in a weekend foursome in barely over 4 hours, and that's with my hacker buddies shooting in the 90s, 25+ strokes each over what a typical tour player takes. You load my course up with twosomes and I'll bet pace of play is barely over 3 hours. 

 

I do feel that players should be judged on whether they're falling behind, and if some players make up their slow preshot routine with walking faster, then so be it. 

 

But let's not act like the field is fast. The entire Tour could stand to pick up the pace quite a bit. 

i don’t disagree with you. they get around pretty slow considering they only take 70ish shots. 

 

but if everyone’s slow, then really no one is slow. 

 

i guess i’m wondering if you tracked it all over the course of a season, do you think the spread between the fastest and slowest player is more than 20 minutes? 

[Krt22]

1 minute ago, ChipStrokes said:

i don’t disagree with you. they get around pretty slow considering they only take 70ish shots. 

 

but if everyone’s slow, then really no one is slow. 

 

i guess i’m wondering if you tracked it all over the course of a season, do you think the spread between the fastest and slowest player is more than 20 minutes? 

 Even the LIV shotgun start exhibition was almost 5hrs to finish with only 42 golfers on the course. Maybe Na held up the entire field lulz

[Stevens24]

I Just think a guy who struggles to break into the top 500 in the world has better things to focus on that the number 34 player. But maybe that is just me

[MUNIGRIT]

1 hour ago, ChipStrokes said:

i don’t disagree with you. they get around pretty slow considering they only take 70ish shots. 

 

but if everyone’s slow, then really no one is slow. 

 

i guess i’m wondering if you tracked it all over the course of a season, do you think the spread between the fastest and slowest player is more than 20 minutes? 

I'd say yes considering the varying times when a guy plays solo and is the first off you see some quick rounds if they are a fast player. I have no doubt Matt Jones would beat NA by more than 20 min.

[mosesgolf]

 

Grayson coming to his senses. 

 

 

[khalespace]

Looks like Grayson will miss the cut and Kevin Na will make the cut again. How did GM qualify for the US Open?

[Golfer4Life]

41 minutes ago, mosesgolf said:

 

Grayson coming to his senses. 

 

 

About sucking at golf or Na's reaction?

 

😆 

[Krt22]

53 minutes ago, khalespace said:

Looks like Grayson will miss the cut and Kevin Na will make the cut again. How did GM qualify for the US Open?

The same way anyone who wasn't exempted in.

[3whacker]

Na, Na , Na, Na..Hey Hey Goodbye....too soon ?

[mosesgolf]

20 minutes ago, Golfer4Life said:

About sucking at golf or Na's reaction?

 

😆 

He doesnt suck at golf.  Anyone who makes it to the big show and qualifies for a US Open doesnt suck at golf.  As far as Na's reaction well Kevin as of this post is at the top of the leaderboard ar -3.  Results results results. 

[jgonz69]

Greyson doesn’t suck at golf, he sucks at high level PGA tour golf.

And he sucks at being a tough guy and sucks at being a twitter troll. 

[tx_bayou]

47 minutes ago, mosesgolf said:

He doesnt suck at golf.  Anyone who makes it to the big show and qualifies for a US Open doesnt suck at golf.  As far as Na's reaction well Kevin as of this post is at the top of the leaderboard ar -3.  Results results results. 

Oops

[Golfer4Life]

1 hour ago, mosesgolf said:

He doesnt suck at golf.  Anyone who makes it to the big show and qualifies for a US Open doesnt suck at golf.  As far as Na's reaction well Kevin as of this post is at the top of the leaderboard ar -3.  Results results results. 

Of course he doesn't. Did you read his tweet? He was making fun of himself, so as I.

 

 🙂

Edited June 16, 2022 by Golfer4Life