This Really Bothers Me (Short Game Shot Selection)

[b.mattay]

When I watch others around the greens, there are two shots I've NEVER seen anyone over a scratch handicap use: 

 

1.) The fairway wood "putt" through the fringe 

2.) A standard chip shot, played off the toe to a short pin. 
 

Both are stupid easy techniques and I see countless 1-10 handicaps refuse to use them and butcher what should be easy up and downs. 

Edited May 30, 2022 by b.mattay

[2bGood]

It is wise for people not to use shots they have never practiced before. It is not unusual for higher handicappers to not practice allot of different types of shots. I believe the two correlate. 

 

I can't say I have ever attempted the chip off the toe....

 

Hybrid Putt in the rough is a great low risk shot. I can't say I use it much in regular play, but in Multi-Day stroke play events it is a go to for me, or in match play when my opponent is in trouble and 'good enough' is good enough.  A well executed chip is better then well executed hybrid 'putt' but a bad hybrid putt is better than even an okay chip in my experience. 

 

I suppose for some there is also the fact or why they are playing. It sounds sacrilegious to say it, but for some shooting the lowest score is not the only goal (for some it not a goal at all). In casual rounds I will tend to hit shots I enjoy over shots that are more defensive like a hybrid bump. 

[GolfTurkey]

My observation is that usually the lower the handicap, the more they are likely to throw away shots by grabbing the 60 when the putter would be easier, and the higher the handicap the more shots are thrown away by using putter from too far off the green (at least thrown away if they could execute a pitch).

[CasualLie]

I can't recall the last time I saw a scratch or low single digit only use a lot of loft around the green.   It's always keep the ball low to the ground when possible and if that's not the shot, then go to higher loft.  It takes a variety of shots around the green to score well, and that takes practice.

 

Conversely, I've seen quite a few good players, not close to scratch, but around 8-10 handicaps who only play the lob wedge around the green, always hit it high, and often are pretty good with that club.  But many times the shot just does not call for it, they try it anyway, and here comes bogey...or worse.

 

I practice short game a lot, and around the short game area I see the equivalent of the range rat banging a bucket with mainly the Driver; golfers exclusively using one wedge to practice.  It's crazy, I don't get it.  They get comfortable with one shot in one particular condition, then guess what... they don't see that shot in the next three rounds.  They may even likely play the next course with completely different greenside rough conditions and have no variety in their short game to accommodate.

[SNIPERBBB]

I see em all hit around here. Couple guys hit nothing but flops and a couple that can hit bump n runs exclusively. 

 

[Chunkitgood]

Play your game, let them play theirs.

[bladehunter]

The toe chip isn’t easy if you don’t practice it a lot.    And  it truly not a control shot.  Why would I want to use the toe ?   Why not just vary loft with the sweet spot ? As in 8 iron for very very long chips and say gap wedge for short ones.    The iron is designed to be used with the sole square to the ground. Not toe down.  

[glk]

19 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

The toe chip isn’t easy if you don’t practice it a lot.    And  it truly not a control shot.  Why would I want to use the toe ?   Why not just vary loft with the sweet spot ? As in 8 iron for very very long chips and say gap wedge for short ones.    The iron is designed to be used with the sole square to the ground. Not toe down.  

A toe hit lowers smash.  Don’t need toe down to do a toe hit.    Ball comes off softer (which is relative to club speed).      
 

ancer with the answer.    https://www.instagram.com/p/B_HwubqFkpv/

 

[MattM97]

Play your shots, within my friend group around the green I hit a ton of bump and runs, another buddy hits a lot of flop shots, another a mix of flop/chip. I've tried to get my friends to play the bump and run more but they can't seem to grasp it despite how easy it is and that's fine they play what they like I play what I like. 

[jamgam]

I play exclusively with a Lob wedge.  it's all I practice.  I can hit it low, hit it high and produce a lot of shots with it.  I don't have a ton of short game practice and I figure that learning to do one thing well would serve me better.

 

If I putted with a fairway wood I'd rocket it over the green so fast it's not even funny (never practiced it).  LOL

[bladehunter]

55 minutes ago, glk said:

A toe hit lowers smash.  Don’t need toe down to do a toe hit.    Ball comes off softer (which is relative to club speed).      
 

ancer with the answer.    https://www.instagram.com/p/B_HwubqFkpv/

 

Yep i know. I know some guys who toe putt too.  But to me you’d have to practice it. And I don’t see the benefit.  Just shorten the backswing or add loft.  I can take a lob wedge and move it a foot.  Or a 4 iron and move it a foot in the air and then it rolls depending on surface it hits.  
 

im not saying toe shots are wrong. I’m just saying it’s tomatoe Tamahtoe - same same.  It’s which ever you practice.  

[glk]

15 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Yep i know. I know some guys who toe putt too.  But to me you’d have to practice it. And I don’t see the benefit.  Just shorten the backswing or add loft.  I can take a lob wedge and move it a foot.  Or a 4 iron and move it a foot in the air and then it rolls depending on surface it hits.  
 

im not saying toe shots are wrong. I’m just saying it’s tomatoe Tamahtoe - same same.  It’s which ever you practice.  

You said it wasn’t a control shot.   It is as demonstrated.  And you asked why would I use the toe - why ask if you knew already?       Why do the pros predominately use one club around the greens (rhetorical)?

Edited May 30, 2022 by glk

[dlow206]

i am a high handicapper and the worst part of my game is pitching and chipping. i have started to use my 5 hybrid for chipping when feasible and works pretty well. i just imagine im putting with a 5 hybrid

[bladehunter]

15 minutes ago, glk said:

You said it wasn’t a control shot.   It is as demonstrated.  And you asked why would I use the toe - why ask if you knew already?       Why do the pros predominately use one club around the greens (rhetorical)?

Spin is control.  Toe is simply for those who can’t vary backswing length and make good contact from different positions.  Toe alone won’t offer control ….and won’t be useful unless it’s a very well rehearsed shot.  But - any well rehearsed shot can do that.  The toe part isn’t some magic bullet.  
 

like I said. It’s a fine option. If it’s the one that suits your eye. But it’s not any more useful than hitting it middle , the useful one is the one YOU practice.   You could make turning it lefty and hitting it with the back useful , if you practice it enough.  The OPs premise was that it’s an easy shot that anyone can just do on a whim .  It’s not.  There’s no point of reference for the feel for distance control.   

Edited May 30, 2022 by bladehunter

[Hawkeye77]

20 hours ago, b.mattay said:

When I watch others around the greens, there are two shots I've NEVER seen anyone over a scratch handicap use: 

 

1.) The fairway wood "putt" through the fringe 

2.) A standard chip shot, played off the toe to a short pin. 
 

Both are stupid easy techniques and I see countless 1-10 handicaps refuse to use them and butcher what should be easy up and downs. 

I use my hybrid around the greens when necessary, many do the same. 
 

You need to get out more. 

[glk]

21 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Spin is control.  Toe is simply for those who can’t vary backswing length and make good contact from different positions.  Toe alone won’t offer control ….and won’t be useful unless it’s a very well rehearsed shot.  But - any well rehearsed shot can do that.  The toe part isn’t some magic bullet.  
 

like I said. It’s a fine option. If it’s the one that suits your eye. But it’s not any more useful than hitting it middle , the useful one is the one YOU practice.   You could make turning it lefty and hitting it with the back useful , if you practice it enough.  The OPs premise was that it’s an easy shot that anyone can just do on a whim .  It’s not.  There’s no point of reference for the feel for distance control.   

Smash is control also and more so than spin when it comes to distance.    Ridyard has shown that smash higher than 1.05 and distance controls becomes an issue - ball comes  off too hot.    Smash getting lower than .95 also produces issues by having to have more speed to hit it desired distance.      Rather than prolong this discussion,I’m good with agreeing to disagree.

[SNIPERBBB]

30 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Spin is control.  Toe is simply for those who can’t vary backswing length and make good contact from different positions.  Toe alone won’t offer control ….and won’t be useful unless it’s a very well rehearsed shot.  But - any well rehearsed shot can do that.  The toe part isn’t some magic bullet.  
 

like I said. It’s a fine option. If it’s the one that suits your eye. But it’s not any more useful than hitting it middle , the useful one is the one YOU practice.   You could make turning it lefty and hitting it with the back useful , if you practice it enough.  The OPs premise was that it’s an easy shot that anyone can just do on a whim .  It’s not.  There’s no point of reference for the feel for distance control.   

Some guys trust spin, some don't. Sometimes the greens are not receptive enough for the spinnier shots to be trusted.  

[KD1]

30 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

But it’s not any more useful than hitting it middle , the useful one is the one YOU practice.

 

Monte covers this in use the bounce 2.0, Malaska also talks about it in one of his videos. Essentially the benefit/usefulness is that it maximizes margin for error.

[bladehunter]

7 minutes ago, glk said:

Smash is control also and more so than spin when it comes to distance.    Ridyard has shown that smash higher than 1.05 and distance controls becomes an issue - ball comes  off too hot.    Smash getting lower than .95 also produces issues by having to have more speed to hit it desired distance.      Rather than prolong this discussion,I’m good with agreeing to disagree.

Uncle.  i say that in jest.  😂.  Smiley face emoji and all so that we are clear.  And I’ll add.again.  I have no issues with it being anyones go to shot. I’d never make fun of that.  But the idea that it’s some magic pill just doesn’t compute.   But if we’re going to trackman data for a 2 yard shot.  Well. I think that’s jumping the shark.  Especially if we are also conceding a smash that too low being just as bad.  Maybe the issue is the spring faced  irons some play?  At any rate. Absolutely agree to disagree.  I think my upchuck reflex on this comes from a couple guys I don’t like locally who preach toe putting.  It’s like nails on a chalk board.  Anyway.  Peace. 

 

[GolfTurkey]

34 minutes ago, glk said:

Smash is control also and more so than spin when it comes to distance.    Ridyard has shown that smash higher than 1.05 and distance controls becomes an issue - ball comes  off too hot.   

I feel like this is the case when I try to chip with a hybrid or even a hot hollow-bodied 7 or 8 iron. The ball comes off so hot that I cant control distance. Much prefer the back of the stance wedge for the low shot because it has a lower smash and has more spin instead of knuckling.

[b.mattay]

1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

Spin is control.  Toe is simply for those who can’t vary backswing length and make good contact from different positions.  Toe alone won’t offer control ….and won’t be useful unless it’s a very well rehearsed shot.  But - any well rehearsed shot can do that.  The toe part isn’t some magic bullet.  

Nothing is a magic bullet in golf, but I do believe it is an easier way to play a soft shot. Smash factor goes down so variance in swing speed doesn't translate to as much of a variance in ball speed.

Also, this allows you to play a soft shot without resorting to a flop. Super useful when a pin is tight but you don't necessarily have to go vertical with it. The benefit is you can open the face slightly (say 15 degrees), instead of massively (say 50 degrees) and have more of the face to play with in terms of margin of error if the ball doesn't happen to be sitting how you predicted in the rough. 

51 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

I think my upchuck reflex on this comes from a couple guys I don’t like locally who preach toe putting.  It’s like nails on a chalk board.  Anyway.  Peace. 

Toe putting is absolutely stupid!! The ball always sits the same way on the green and is a predictable setting. I advocate for the use of the toe on chips because it helps bring predicability to something that is a somewhat unpredictable setting (especially in the rough).

2 hours ago, jamgam said:

If I putted with a fairway wood I'd rocket it over the green so fast it's not even funny (never practiced it).  LOL

Try practicing it for 10 minutes one time and you'll (likely) get a decent feel for it and add another weapon to the arsenal.

Put the club toe down, choke down to the bottom of the grip, tuck the elbows into the sides and make a putting stroke. 

1 hour ago, Hawkeye77 said:

I use my hybrid around the greens when necessary, many do the same. 
 

You need to get out more. 

I'm happy golfers in your area are smarter than mine! I've literally never seen it and frequently have people comment on it when I pull out a 5 wood to chip, even in tournaments. 

Edited May 31, 2022 by b.mattay

[MonteScheinblum]

Well, I’m well into a tournament plus and I use and teach both shots.

[Golfah]

I taught my junior the fairway wood from the fringe shot and he is deadly with it.  Uses it all the time in competitions to take the chunked wedge shot out of play.  His competitors look completely perplexed when he pulls the club and hits the shot. 

[TheDominator273]

I prefer the bellied wedge to a FW or hybrid chip, which while they often work great have a tendency to have the odd rocket off the face.

[MonteScheinblum]

55 minutes ago, TheDominator273 said:

I prefer the bellied wedge to a FW or hybrid chip, which while they often work great have a tendency to have the odd rocket off the face.

That’s the result of not setting up to it correctly.  You have to crowd it and raise the handle 

[b.mattay]

12 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

That’s the result of not setting up to it correctly.  You have to crowd it and raise the handle 

Do you use a putting grip as well Monte? I find it helps big time. Seriously believe I'm going to hole it every time I pull the 5 wood out. 

[MonteScheinblum]

Just now, b.mattay said:

Do you use a putting grip as well Monte? I find it helps big time. Seriously believe I'm going to hole it every time I pull the 5 wood out. 

Yes.  There’s a way to setup where you take out all possible leverage and sweet spot so you don’t hit home runs.  Actually, those I’ve shown this will say it’s so damn hard to get it there. 

[getitdaily]

On 5/29/2022 at 11:34 PM, 2bGood said:

It is wise for people not to use shots they have never practiced before. 

This right here. I love it when the TV folks talk about the shots a tour pro plays around the greens and suggests the avg hacker should play a variety of shots. 

 

#1 - tour pros have hours per day to practice short game. Avg AMs might get an hour or two a week. 

#2 - with little practice time, use it wisely. Get really good with 2 clubs and then use them.

 

 

Edited May 31, 2022 by getitdaily

[b.mattay]

4 hours ago, getitdaily said:

This right here. I love it when the TV folks talk about the shots a tour pro plays around the greens and suggests the avg hacker should play a variety of shots. 

 

#1 - tour pros have hours per day to practice short game. Avg AMs might get an hour or two a week. 

#2 - with little practice time, use it wisely. Get really good with 2 clubs and then use them.

 

 

These are both easy techniques you could learn in 5-10 minutes each. It's not like they are above most am's pay grade to at least try out. 

[getitdaily]

25 minutes ago, b.mattay said:

These are both easy techniques you could learn in 5-10 minutes each. It's not like they are above most am's pay grade to at least try out. 

It's not learning it. It's getting repetitions so you know exactly how the ball rolls out. 

 

Learning it - easy

Repeating it - takes practice. 

 

I know how to hit a putt hybrid to run a ball up a shaved slope to a short pin. But knowing how hard to hit it takes reps. Those reps take away from the limited time I have to practice chipping and pitching my 54 and 60 so I stay superb with them.