Constructive ideas to improve the PGA Tour

[billyspan]

34 minutes ago, So_Cal said:

100%.  As someone who watches basically majors only the loss of the Western Open as a major event was a big blow to the tour.   

I'm with you there.  However, I'll argue that the Canadian Open began its death spiral with the PGA Tour took over management and parked it at Glen Abbey.  What a miss!  So many good courses to showcase up north.  Seems to have been a bigger tournament before the 80s and has a long, rich history.  Good article here:  https://scoregolf.com/features/banking-on-a-better-date/

[Is Golf Fun or Work]

Non-major golf is pretty boring on TV.

 

How about getting players mic'd up so we can hear their conversations with caddies, and their elation/frustration depending on outcome of shot.

[billyspan]

I love pro golf...but I only have so much time/patience for non-major golf like many of you state on here.  I do also like watching LPGA/Senior -  US Open and PGA  Once a month enough for the big players to get together? Give me the WESTERN and CANADA in the Fall!

 

Jan - TOC/SAN DIEGO

Feb - LOS ANGELES

Mar - PLAYERS

Apr - MASTERS

May - PGA 

Jun - US OPEN

July - BRITISH

Aug - TOUR CHAMPIONSHIP

Sept - BRITISH PGA 

Oct - HSBC CHINA?

Nov - WORLD TOUR CHAMPIONSHIP?

Dec - AUSTALIAN PGA/OPEN (in my dreams, LOL)

[bbfifas]

3 hours ago, bbfifas said:

How about linking some sort of bonuses to stats?  

 

Like each round the SG putting stat (or SG off tee) pays out a little bonus to the top 5.    Or the longest drive gets $5000 each round.   Or an eagle gets you an extra $5000.   Or most consecutive cuts made streak pays out a bonus pool along with most consecutive holes without 3 putt.  

 

Everything now is stats driven at tournaments with the amount of putts made in feet length and things like that maybe a system around it could be interesting to follow and it will reward people not always winning on score alone.  

Sorry quoting my own post. But looking at last years stats only 21 guys had no 3 putt streaks of over 100. I'm assuming 100 means holes? 

 

Only one guy above 200 holes.  

 

I think it would be fun if you saw a guy standing over a long par putt on his 100th hole and if avoids a 3 putt he gets some money.  Make it 20k.  I dunno.  Then if you 150 holes you get 50k.  Make it interesting instead of PIP money.  

[So_Cal]

25 minutes ago, billyspan said:

I'm with you there.  However, I'll argue that the Canadian Open began its death spiral with the PGA Tour took over management and parked it at Glen Abbey.  What a miss!  So many good courses to showcase up north.  Seems to have been a bigger tournament before the 80s and has a long, rich history.  Good article here:  https://scoregolf.com/features/banking-on-a-better-date/

I agree.  The Canadian and the Western were two big time events that used to mean something.  They were a step up from a normal tour event and just below a major. 

[jjthomp2]

37 minutes ago, Is Golf Fun or Work said:

Non-major golf is pretty boring on TV.

 

How about getting players mic'd up so we can hear their conversations with caddies, and their elation/frustration depending on outcome of shot.

I can't fathom hearing Jordan Spieth go on and on to Michael the entire round. We get enough of golfer caddie banter imo

[vandyfan]

31 minutes ago, jjthomp2 said:

We get enough of golfer caddie banter imo

 

The more we hear golfer/caddie banter the less we will hear from Faldo...

[ChipStrokes]

1 hour ago, bbfifas said:

Sorry quoting my own post. But looking at last years stats only 21 guys had no 3 putt streaks of over 100. I'm assuming 100 means holes? 

 

Only one guy above 200 holes.  

 

I think it would be fun if you saw a guy standing over a long par putt on his 100th hole and if avoids a 3 putt he gets some money.  Make it 20k.  I dunno.  Then if you 150 holes you get 50k.  Make it interesting instead of PIP money.  

most sports have incentive bonuses worked into contracts. 

 

i don’t hate the idea, but i’m not sure how it would work without a contract. 

[geesecougar2]

• Minimum stipend per player per tournament, the same amount for everyone
• More fully exempt players combining the KFT and maybe DP. ~200 fully exempt players, ~50-100 conditional status players.
• A multi-tier strata of events. Big money premier no cut events that the top players can fill their schedules with, and a lower tier of less prestigious events.
  • The premier events should pay multiples of the smaller events, and you get into them by qualifying via a point system (some combination of OWGR, money earned, points, etc.). Even if you have to reduce the current purses of the smaller events.
  • The top players would play in ~10-15 premier events and fill their schedules with the remainder.
  • The lower ranked players would fill their schedules largely with the lower tier events
• Increase the minimum number of events to keep your card. The players should have to work harder if they want to make more money and dip their toes into other organizations. And also require a minimum number of lower tier events
• A more global tour, with events hosted around the world and broadcasted in prime time on different days (where it makes sense to)
• Better broadcast, better streaming distribution

 

 

[Shilgy]

5 hours ago, bbfifas said:

How about linking some sort of bonuses to stats?  

 

Like each round the SG putting stat (or SG off tee) pays out a little bonus to the top 5.    Or the longest drive gets $5000 each round.   Or an eagle gets you an extra $5000.   Or most consecutive cuts made streak pays out a bonus pool along with most consecutive holes without 3 putt.  

 

Everything now is stats driven at tournaments with the amount of putts made in feet length and things like that maybe a system around it could be interesting to follow and it will reward people not always winning on score alone.  

Because the only number that matters is on the scorecard….

 

 

From an instructor of mine that never wanted stories…just the number on the card.

[Puppy_Flower]

To the PGA Tour: Are you really going to make us listen to Faldo, Nance et al until they die? We've heard them for the last two plus decades.

 

They are competent but boring and they literally do not let more than 3 seconds of silence go by before they fill the air with blather.

 

I hear these guys in my sleep already. If you want to attract a more vibrant audience please retire all of these folks over 60. They've made generational wealth. They will be fine.

 

I want Trevor Immelman to be the oldest person on these broadcasts.

 

Or put another way, let Faldo & company broadcast the Champion's Tour and if you are under 50 you are eligible to broadcast the PGA Tour.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Puppy_Flower

[betarhoalphadelta]

3 hours ago, blackbdmillsaps said:

Match play is fun to watch but they have really ruined the Dell Matchplay with this pool play nonsense. Just go back to the bracket. Pool play is a waste of time. 

 

Top 4 non-exempt KFT players each get to challenge one player in the bottom 1/4th of the pga tour exempt list at the end of the season. I am workshopping this just now in my head and I think it should take place at Sawgrass (right near the global home) and occur at a specific point in time. The challenge would be tour players don't typically respond to set schedules and I could see a tour player faking an injury or some other thing to duck it. Would be cool though to see a match play relegation battle. I am sure in practice it wouldn't be as cool but a guy can dream. Trying to figure out how to incentivize the exempt player to not pretend to be injured. I guess if the player can't compete they get relegated BUT this may get KFT players to deliberately challenge guys who are already hurt. I don't know. Can this work somehow?

 

So the tour gives out cards to the top 125 finishes in Fedex Cup points, right? 

 

Just increase that by 4, and tell the top 4 non-exempt players starting at spot 126 that they get to keep their card if they can beat those top 4 non-exempt KFT players in a match play event, and the KFT win their card if they can beat 126-129(ish). If either that PGA player or their KFT opponent does not actually show up, the other one wins by default. If neither show up, neither gets a card.

 

Plan it for the Monday at Sawgrass following the Sunday final round at East Lake, and I'd tune in for it. 

[geesecougar2]

1 hour ago, Puppy_Flower said:

To the PGA Tour: Are you really going to make us listen to Faldo, Nance et al until they die? We've heard them for the last two plus decades.

 

They are competent but boring and they literally do not let more than 3 seconds of silence go by before they fill the air with blather.

 

I hear these guys in my sleep already. If you want to attract a more vibrant audience please retire all of these folks over 60. They've made generational wealth. They will be fine.

 

I want Trevor Immelman to be the oldest person on these broadcasts.

 

Or put another way, let Faldo & company broadcast the Champion's Tour and if you are under 50 you are eligible to broadcast the PGA Tour.

 

Ditto on Faldo and Nance. 

 

I do love me some Immelman. I also love IBF so hoping he's under 50 years old. 

[jkumpire]

To improve the PGA Tour:

 

1. Fewer TV commercials, especially the split screen obscenities.

2. No fans so no more ugly fan behavior on TV.

More match play and Stableford scoring events.

 

 

[smashdn]

16 minutes ago, jkumpire said:

To improve the PGA Tour:

 

1. Fewer TV commercials, especially the split screen obscenities.

2. No fans so no more ugly fan behavior on TV.

More match play and Stableford scoring events.

 

 

 

No grandstands and other junk to detract from the course as well.

[getitdaily]

On 6/2/2022 at 9:09 PM, tw_focus said:

I think it's worthwhile to try a few things, I'm not saying all of these will work out but it's worth a try. LIV is going to do whatever it takes to succeed, the PGAT needs to evolve and find something that works better if they want to win.

 

- Shotgun starts. It means more highlights, and you can watch the entire tournament in ~4 hours.

- Shot clock for players that audibly buzzes. Players might hate this, maybe viewers will love it though.

- Variety commentators / audio streams. Definitely get Payton Manning (of The Match fame) to do some, also get Phil in the booth for some of these.

- Caddie challenges. Give bonus money / charity based on caddies getting closest to the hole on one par 3, or longest drive on some hole.

 

This is just a start, the game is evolving whether the PGAT likes it or not.

Shotgun starts mean no more than about 60 players. Most ranges won't hold more than that at one time. Can't have 140+ players all earning up at the same time. Dame goes for the putting green. Can't have all those guys putting at the same time. 

[smashdn]

Warning: Opinions to follow.

 

1) More cut-throat competition seems it would be better not less.  Therefore, guaranteed money seems like a bad idea.

2) Get on-course betting out in the open and talk about it.  If Phil has 10k on the round with his playing partner and they are on page two of the leaderboard I want to know.  I want to know what action these guys have going on.  Golf is s betting game.  Let's not hide it, use it to add a layer of additional entertainment.

3) More different formats.  Give me another match play.  Give me a stableford (though I don't think they need much more initiative to get more aggressive given how the game is played most weeks.)  Give me a skins match.

4) More interesting courses.  I know they make a lot more money at TPC Vanilla Ranch Acres but for the most part those course are dull as dishwater.

5) One event they pack their own bags and no range finders.  And add a shot clock with the standard bearer.  The clock is on the standard but the walking scorer starts and stops the clock.  Forty-five seconds or less when you get to your ball and it is your turn to hit.  Idea would be to have a sub 4:15 round.

6) One mandatory event where they play persimmon and forged blades on a classic course, I'll volunteer Old White.  Designate a tournament ball for this tournament that spins like a top and let's see where the chips fall.

7) Scorecard playoffs, no more extra holes.

8 ) All tournament winners get a jacket when they win.  And they have to wear it except when playing the next year when they defend their title.  Uglier the better.  Colonial plaid, Memorial/MV Grey, Heritage will need to get a new plaid as Colonial called dibs.  John Deere will obviously be a yellow and green plaid, FedEx will end up looking like something an Auburn frat boy would be proud to game, WM will be a sleeveless blazer in the WM colors, Arnold Palmer can keep the cardigan.  I'd like to see a leather blazer woven into the fold somewhere.  Canadian Open winner obviously gets a Canadian Tuxedo, perhaps with the year and their name and score bedazzled on the back.

 

I don't think any of these suggestions would make it better for the players.  What is better for the players does not jive with what might be better for the fan.

Edited June 8, 2022 by smashdn

[wy3134]

ill admit i havent read all the pages so if mentioned already oh whale. 

 

tour started this whole mess with the wrap around season. no longer can guys take a 3 month offseason to heal up, work on things, disconnect from the tour travel grind. you end up so far behind the 8 ball if you call your season at the tour championship and dont plan to play until january. the new offseason is a 6-10 week stretch from mid october to xmas. no other sport has that short of a true offseason. even baseball for its ridiculous long season still has a 3 month offseason before spring training kicks into full gear in february. 

 

end the wrap around season and go back to what we had before. sure some of the top guys might be playing some of those events now, but they are also skipping some of the bigger non-major events, like JT skipping the memorial last week because of scheduling. id say skip that worthless canadian open over jacks tourney but i get it, guys need a week off when they can get it and if thats what he feels is best for him going into the us open so be it, not gonna bash that. 

 

end result this wrap around season hasnt panned out like they hoped...we are still getting "watered down" fields at a lot of non-majors because of the newer condensed schedule from january-august trying to finish before nfl kicks its season off. 

 

 

 

 

[KNOWMOREDOUBLES]

23 hours ago, ChipStrokes said:

most sports have incentive bonuses worked into contracts. 

 

i don’t hate the idea, but i’m not sure how it would work without a contract. 

How would this actually improve the tour though?  Or individual tournaments?

[ChipStrokes]

16 minutes ago, KNOWMOREDOUBLES said:

How would this actually improve the tour though?  Or individual tournaments?

you’d ultimately end up with more good players in more events. 

 

better for fans, better for sponsors, better for players. 

 

and it’s tied to actual performance unlike appearance fees or guaranteed money. so you won’t end up with guys showing up and not caring. 

[cmatthews77]

PGA TOUR is obviously in a tough spot having to manage the needs of the stars, the young players, the legitimacy of the competition regardless of how "followed and known" certain players are and the tradition of the game.  At the same time it's entertainment and they've got to have TV Ratings, sponsors, etc.  Here's a few ideas and of course they aren't that flushed out...

 

1. Create a new "Champions Series" within the PGA Tour framework

Do away with the PIP stupidity and the Career Earnings Exemptions and instead have a series of events (say 6 per year) that are specifically for players who have "earned" a certain status in the game.  This could be the slightly getting older guys who have achieved say minimum of 5 PGA TOUR wins or a major or some criteria.  Relatively small fields (24-36 players) with guaranteed pay days, no cuts.  This gives the guys like Phil, DJ, Tiger, Jason Day, Rickie (though he barely qualified), Kuchar, etc. essentially paydays, still draws good TV ratings because it's all the big names.  Basically think something that looks like a combination of a Champions Tour Event, Tiger's Bahama's event and one of these LIV Events.  Create media opportunities like team components, etc.  Some of the stuff they are rumored to be thinking about in the fall and essentially copying the LIV but done with the stars of the game on the PGA TOUR. 

 

2. Re-think the Korn Ferry Tour slightly and what it means to get a PGA TOUR Card

Guaranteed say $10,000 for 15 entries if you earn a PGA TOUR card.  That gives guys at least some baseline of income in addition to playing for the purses.  That hopefully takes that off the responsibility of the equipment companies who pass those costs down to us as consumers for $600 drivers and $400 putters nonsense.  Have some co-sanctioned Korn Ferry/PGA TOUR Events (maybe opposite the 'Champions' Series events) for younger, less established, etc in the fall.  Maybe this gets the casual watcher eyes on future talent?

 

3. Keep integrating with the European Tour

More co-events between the two tours or they merge and it's all one body?  One thing that is missing these days is the rivalry between the tours.  ALL of the best players in the world now play on the PGA TOUR so when it comes to say Ryder Cup- while the event is still AWESOME it's not the same that all the guys are essentially PGA players.  There are really no European Tour only guys on the Ryder Cup team.

 

4. Re-think the Sr/ Champions Tour. 

The PGA TOUR is getting younger and younger and therefore the golf 'purgatory' is getting longer.  Guys are regularly washed up by the time they're 40 and have a decade to stay busy before they can compete on the Champions Tour.  Perhaps the idea 1 above fixes this or maybe they rethink the Champions Tour and make the playing eligibility younger (say 40 or 45) so you get bigger names in there quicker.  Example... I bet most people don't even know that Justin Leonard is still not even 50 years old.  It seems he's been out of golf for over a decade.  Would the average TV watcher rather see a 68 year old Bernhard Longer with his anchored putter and a bunch of Tour Edge guys play or guys who are closer to their relevant tour days??

Note: this wouldn't affect something like the US Senior Open (still 50) but just the regular in and out tour event. 

 

5. More different format events

I like what the Zurich Classic has done with the partners.  It took a bit but now it's an event I enjoy watching.  The Tour needs a little more of this kind of thing.  Basically if they could figure out a way to televise a practice round money match and make it official... that would be entertaining.  Doable? Maybe not.  But worth a try.

 

Just a few random ideas.  Look forward to hearing more...

[Mr.Cleeks]

On 6/6/2022 at 3:45 PM, geesecougar2 said:

• Minimum stipend per player per tournament, the same amount for everyone
• More fully exempt players combining the KFT and maybe DP. ~200 fully exempt players, ~50-100 conditional status players.
• A multi-tier strata of events. Big money premier no cut events that the top players can fill their schedules with, and a lower tier of less prestigious events.
  • The premier events should pay multiples of the smaller events, and you get into them by qualifying via a point system (some combination of OWGR, money earned, points, etc.). Even if you have to reduce the current purses of the smaller events.
  • The top players would play in ~10-15 premier events and fill their schedules with the remainder.
  • The lower ranked players would fill their schedules largely with the lower tier events
• Increase the minimum number of events to keep your card. The players should have to work harder if they want to make more money and dip their toes into other organizations. And also require a minimum number of lower tier events
• A more global tour, with events hosted around the world and broadcasted in prime time on different days (where it makes sense to)
• Better broadcast, better streaming distribution

 

 

So basically you want the tour's schedule littered with WGC's and alt field events opposite to those??  

[tatertot]

I got this:

 

Roided up gators in every water hazard.

 

It's simple ... don't feed those suckers for 2 weeks before every event. Drop 'em in. Watch hilarity ensue. Mic 'em up and stick Go Pros on their heads for an alternate channel feed.

 

Whose on board for this?

[dgarland]

Maybe don't ban anyone who want's to play the LIV tour.  That's not a very good response to competition.

[geesecougar2]

1 hour ago, KizIsTheMan said:

So basically you want the tour's schedule littered with WGC's and alt field events opposite to those??  

 

Doesn't have to be alt fields every event but in a nutshell, yes. However they would be paying way more money than they do now. Ideally even more than the majors pay out. 

[Zitlow]

Hire the Kardashians to be tour ambassadors. 

[Railroading13]

Expand Pip and include more players, make it performance based. Come up with some sort of guaranteed money to cover expenses, doesn't have to be crazy, but if a top draw loses money if they miss a cut, LIV becomes more of a pull. Lastly, guys on featured coverage should get money, again, northing crazy but like 10-20k if you are in a featured group

[farmer]

The absolute best thing for the tour would be for another Tiger to burst onto the scene.

[otto6457]

On 6/6/2022 at 10:26 AM, woahnelly said:

Put more prize money/attention into the KFT, it should take priority over the Champions Tour. I don't care about a bunch of already rich old dudes clinging on to their past glory. I'd be more interested in seeing guys trying to get back onto the Tour who lost their card or the young up and comers. Maybe casuals would have known about Mito Pereira prior to his run at the PGA.

 

 

The Champions Tour needs to fade away.  It's a huge drain of resources for the PGA Tour.  Pour that cash into the KFT because if they don't, LIV Golf is going to buy the best players right out from under the PGA Tour.  Why on earth would promising amateurs sign up for the KFT knowing they will make very little (if ANY money), when LIV will hand them a mountain of cash for fewer no cut tournaments?  These young players aren't even going to hesitate to go to LIV if they get an offer of guaranteed cash for less work.

 

Also, LIV is going to force some major changes in how the PGA Tour pays players.  I suspect every fully exempt player is going to get paid a minimum per tournament they play in whether they make the cut of not.  Pro golf is entertainment.  You need to pay ALL the entertainers that are part of the show.  There is no doubt that paying every player in the field at a LIV Tournament is a MAJOR draw for these guys.

Edited June 8, 2022 by otto6457

[woahnelly]

15 minutes ago, otto6457 said:

The Champions Tour needs to fade away.  It's a huge drain of resources for the PGA Tour.  Pour that cash into the KFT because if they don't, LIV Golf is going to buy the best players right out from under the PGA Tour.  Why on earth would promising amateurs sign up for the KFT knowing they will make very little (if ANY money), when LIV will hand them a mountain of cash for fewer no cut tournaments?  These young players aren't even going to hesitate to go to LIV if they get an offer of guaranteed cash for less work.

 

Also, LIV is going to force some major changes in how the PGA Tour pays players.  I suspect every fully exempt player is going to get paid a minimum per tournament they play in whether they make the cut of not.  Pro golf is entertainment.  You need to pay ALL the entertainers that are part of the show.  There is no doubt that paying every player in the field at a LIV Tournament is a MAJOR draw for these guys.

 

It's quite a grind for younger players to emerge from the depths of the KFT, especially when pro golfers have the longest career out of any sport, there's only 125 fully exempt players per year + all the other players who have A, B, C etc exemptions whether past winner, past champion, medical, career etc Not to mention they have to compete with new flocks of international players who want to try their hand at the PGA, guys who already have professional experience.  So your either barely scraping by humping it out on the KFT for years or playing on overseas tours, but not everyone wants to live like that. Kind of a grim realization you don't have what it takes to win majors, which only a small fraction of pros really aim for. Most of them just want to live comfortably and support their families. It's a job at the end of the day.