Any Whoop users here ? ( fitness tracking band )

Wardonation · June 6, 2022

I used the original and liked it BUT the hardware stopped working and after 12 emails with WHOOP they would not send me a new one, so I quit using it.

SirFuego · June 6, 2022

I've been using Whoop since Dec 2019. There are some quirks to deal with, but as long as you understand them, it certainly does what it says it does. Whether or not it provides "useful" data I think really depends on how you intend to use it. Some general comments regarding Whoop:

You can basically ignore any results you get from the first 30 days of usage. Your initial "strain" and "recovery" scores are based off averages with people in your demographic. It takes some time to learn you. A couple weeks is sometimes "good enough", but a full 30 days seems to be the ticket. The unfortunate thing is that is the same as the cancellation period, so it's tough to really understand the utility of what Whoop provides until after the cancellation period.
Based off of perusal of various Whoop forums (e.g. Reddit), there seems to be a small number of people that Whoop gives very inconsistent results. Of course it could be user error, people not believing that their biometrics are what they say they are, wrist shape, or even "visibility" of blood vessels, but seeing as Whoop uses machine learning in most of what they do, I would not be surprised if some people are just outliers where Whoop just doesn't work for them. Just something to keep in mind.
Completely ignore calorie count. There are way too many variables to trust calorie count from ANY wearable. There is a wide range of energy expenditure values between people even when you account for most of the variables that affect energy expenditure. There are only a handful of known ways to actually estimate calorie count based on biometrics, and all of them require the user to be in a lab setting.
You may find that the "experimentation" aspect of Whoop can be woefully boring and lead to very "obvious" results. I've played around with some stuff and virtually every "bio-hack" out there pales in comparison to simply getting enough sleep. Every month you get a summary of what impacts recovery the most and every month, sleep significantly outshines everything in terms of maximizing recovery.
Just because Whoop might tell you something obvious (e.g. get more sleep) doesn't necessarily mean that it has no more value. At this point, you can use Whoop more as a monitor to ensure that you are indeed doing whatever that obvious thing is. For me, with the amount of travel I do, it's easy to lose track of how little sleep I might get at times, so the Whoop keeps me in check to make sure I do try to go to bed earlier some nights.
When it comes to recovery, don't read too far into an individual value. A 65% recovery (yellow) is virtually the same as a 70% recovery (green). Additionally, a single red recovery doesn't necessarily mean you need to rest -- I've had some of my best workouts with a red recovery. You want to be looking more at the trends of your recovery.
Don't get too caught up in monitoring respiratory rate as a pre-indicator for that virus we've been dealing with the past couple years. Things like seasonal allergies can also increase your respiratory rates.
Golf seems to cause abnormally high strain. Most wearables give funky results with vibrations and I think the vibration from impacting a golf ball can sometimes "trick" Whoop's algorithms into recording more strain than there actually is. A bicep band seems to be a better choice for golf. I have not experimented with any of the "Whoop Body" apparel, but I'd imagine the closer to your heart/torso the sensor is, the more accurate results you will get.
Resistance training isn't really captured by the "strain" score, but it likely will be captured by your recovery the next day. I haven't found a good correlation between recovery score and resistance training performance -- in much the same way I haven't found a good correlation between DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness) and predicted resistance training performance either. However, if I have a "green" recovery and a crappy resistance training workout, it's usually followed by a red (or low yellow) recovery.
False positive strains have been GREATLY reduced since I started using Whoop. I used to get abnormally high strain "cycling" workouts detected when I was driving home from work with no traffic, but haven't encountered that in months. So they do seem to be working to refine the algorithms.
Sleep results are similar for the wrist strap vs the bicep band. So if you primarily use Whoop for recovery, you probably don't need to get a bicep band.
I don't know if it's due to Whoop algorithm changes or the fact that I'm getting older, but I noticed that my HRV scores have been more consistent in the past few months with fewer "outlier" numbers. When I get an outlier, it's usually towards the red side of things and it's usually consistent with me getting sick shortly after the red recovery.

If you have any additional questions or what me to elaborate on something, let me know. I think Whoop is a good product. It's not perfect and its utility may be a bit overstated, at least for an average Joe like myself. But it is certainly useful for me to make sure I'm not veering too far away from healthy behaviors.

Edited June 6, 2022 by SirFuego

bladehunter · June 12, 2022

On 6/6/2022 at 2:03 PM, SirFuego said:

I've been using Whoop since Dec 2019. There are some quirks to deal with, but as long as you understand them, it certainly does what it says it does. Whether or not it provides "useful" data I think really depends on how you intend to use it. Some general comments regarding Whoop:

You can basically ignore any results you get from the first 30 days of usage. Your initial "strain" and "recovery" scores are based off averages with people in your demographic. It takes some time to learn you. A couple weeks is sometimes "good enough", but a full 30 days seems to be the ticket. The unfortunate thing is that is the same as the cancellation period, so it's tough to really understand the utility of what Whoop provides until after the cancellation period.

Based off of perusal of various Whoop forums (e.g. Reddit), there seems to be a small number of people that Whoop gives very inconsistent results. Of course it could be user error, people not believing that their biometrics are what they say they are, wrist shape, or even "visibility" of blood vessels, but seeing as Whoop uses machine learning in most of what they do, I would not be surprised if some people are just outliers where Whoop just doesn't work for them. Just something to keep in mind.

Completely ignore calorie count. There are way too many variables to trust calorie count from ANY wearable. There is a wide range of energy expenditure values between people even when you account for most of the variables that affect energy expenditure. There are only a handful of known ways to actually estimate calorie count based on biometrics, and all of them require the user to be in a lab setting.

You may find that the "experimentation" aspect of Whoop can be woefully boring and lead to very "obvious" results. I've played around with some stuff and virtually every "bio-hack" out there pales in comparison to simply getting enough sleep. Every month you get a summary of what impacts recovery the most and every month, sleep significantly outshines everything in terms of maximizing recovery.

Just because Whoop might tell you something obvious (e.g. get more sleep) doesn't necessarily mean that it has no more value. At this point, you can use Whoop more as a monitor to ensure that you are indeed doing whatever that obvious thing is. For me, with the amount of travel I do, it's easy to lose track of how little sleep I might get at times, so the Whoop keeps me in check to make sure I do try to go to bed earlier some nights.

When it comes to recovery, don't read too far into an individual value. A 65% recovery (yellow) is virtually the same as a 70% recovery (green). Additionally, a single red recovery doesn't necessarily mean you need to rest -- I've had some of my best workouts with a red recovery. You want to be looking more at the trends of your recovery.

Don't get too caught up in monitoring respiratory rate as a pre-indicator for that virus we've been dealing with the past couple years. Things like seasonal allergies can also increase your respiratory rates.

Golf seems to cause abnormally high strain. Most wearables give funky results with vibrations and I think the vibration from impacting a golf ball can sometimes "trick" Whoop's algorithms into recording more strain than there actually is. A bicep band seems to be a better choice for golf. I have not experimented with any of the "Whoop Body" apparel, but I'd imagine the closer to your heart/torso the sensor is, the more accurate results you will get.

Resistance training isn't really captured by the "strain" score, but it likely will be captured by your recovery the next day. I haven't found a good correlation between recovery score and resistance training performance -- in much the same way I haven't found a good correlation between DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness) and predicted resistance training performance either. However, if I have a "green" recovery and a crappy resistance training workout, it's usually followed by a red (or low yellow) recovery.

False positive strains have been GREATLY reduced since I started using Whoop. I used to get abnormally high strain "cycling" workouts detected when I was driving home from work with no traffic, but haven't encountered that in months. So they do seem to be working to refine the algorithms.

Sleep results are similar for the wrist strap vs the bicep band. So if you primarily use Whoop for recovery, you probably don't need to get a bicep band.

I don't know if it's due to Whoop algorithm changes or the fact that I'm getting older, but I noticed that my HRV scores have been more consistent in the past few months with fewer "outlier" numbers. When I get an outlier, it's usually towards the red side of things and it's usually consistent with me getting sick shortly after the red recovery.

If you have any additional questions or what me to elaborate on something, let me know. I think Whoop is a good product. It's not perfect and its utility may be a bit overstated, at least for an average Joe like myself. But it is certainly useful for me to make sure I'm not veering too far away from healthy behaviors.

Thanks for the reply’s.

overall I do like the Info it gives me. It does mirror what I suspected too. My home courses front 9 is very walkable ( I walk 99 % of my rounds) and shows very little strain. When I get to my back 9. It shows quite a bit. I average between 16 and 19 Strain walking 18 holes on this course. ( pushing a push cart ).

i wonder on strain. Does it calculate based on my heart rate etc only , or based on averages for my demographic? As in if I felt better ( I still don’t ) would the strain be less ?

on the subject of how I feel physically. I’ve adjusted to getting 1 and a half hours more sleep. And I really don’t see a difference. It’s a week of that now. And I feel same. I mentally want to do , but Its a battle to make myself do. I walked 18 yesterday and made it 3 holes before I noticed how hard it was to focus on hitting a shot. I just had to gather all my energy to hit a pitching wedge full. That’s not close to normal. I don’t have to consciously think “ ok. Pay attention , give this a real swing , max power “. On a wedge. And I’m not talking about a thrash. I’m saying a easy smooth full swing. So from that point on it’s that same thing every single shot. It’s bad enough that I’m not playing anymore until I figure this out. I don’t have energy to practice. And I was a daily 100 or more wedge shot guy on my range at home. I can’t walk out my back door and hit balls. I don’t have the energy.

pretty worried at this point. I’ve never experienced this. I used to work till I dropped , sleep or off , eat a big breakfast and go play 18 or 36 with no issue. 3 months ago I could do this. Anyway. I wonder if my wife isn’t right. She says the whoop is causing this. Lol. As in I was better off not knowing how tired I was.

doc appointment next week. Maybe I’ll get an answer. Most likely I’ll be told how healthy I am compared to joe couch potatoe.

SirFuego · June 12, 2022

7 hours ago, bladehunter said:

i wonder on strain. Does it calculate based on my heart rate etc only , or based on averages for my demographic? As in if I felt better ( I still don’t ) would the strain be less ?

Whoop uses 250 variables to refine the heart rate readings. It seems superfluous, but the type of sensors they use are highly subject to false readings due to things like vibrations and quick movements. Putting additional context to the readings and using machine learning to figure out the real heart rate supposedly improves accuracy. I've certainly had false readings but it's improved drastically. That said, I usually don't care about daily strain because most of my exercise is strength training, and the strain for that cannot be captured correctly by any wearable.

https://www.whoop.com/thelocker/improving-heart-rate-accuracy-whoop-getting-smarter/

Strain itself is a function of your heart rate, maximum heart rate, and the length of time in that heart rate zone. I think the max heart rate is initially set based on demographics, but is refined over time. I've also heard that you can contact support if you think your max heart rate isn't correct. If max heart rate is too low, you'll get higher strain scores and if it's too high, you'll get lower strain scores.

Also, there is some (anecdotal) evidence to support your wife in that wearables like Whoop can cause a "nocebo" effect that make you think something is wrong when there isn't. Some trainers do not let their clients wear them because they've seen performance degrade due to their clients relying too much on their readiness score to drive how hard they train.

That said, having no energy after a big healthy breakfast is certainly a sign something is wrong. Even on days I have to drag myself to workout because I have no energy, that feeling goes away quickly.

Odd question, but do ticks live near you? My otherwise healthy and active uncle went months with greatly reduced energy before they finally diagnosed him with Lyme disease. I'm sure it's a long shot, but

figuring out issues like that when you are otherwise healthy can be a frustrating process. Best of luck!

Edited June 12, 2022 by SirFuego

bladehunter · June 12, 2022

2 hours ago, SirFuego said:

Whoop uses 250 variables to refine the heart rate readings. It seems superfluous, but the type of sensors they use are highly subject to false readings due to things like vibrations and quick movements. Putting additional context to the readings and using machine learning to figure out the real heart rate supposedly improves accuracy. I've certainly had false readings but it's improved drastically. That said, I usually don't care about daily strain because most of my exercise is strength training, and the strain for that cannot be captured correctly by any wearable.

https://www.whoop.com/thelocker/improving-heart-rate-accuracy-whoop-getting-smarter/

Strain itself is a function of your heart rate, maximum heart rate, and the length of time in that heart rate zone. I think the max heart rate is initially set based on demographics, but is refined over time. I've also heard that you can contact support if you think your max heart rate isn't correct. If max heart rate is too low, you'll get higher strain scores and if it's too high, you'll get lower strain scores.

Also, there is some (anecdotal) evidence to support your wife in that wearables like Whoop can cause a "nocebo" effect that make you think nothing is wrong when there isn't. Some trainers do not let their clients wear them because they've seen performance degrade due to their clients relying too much on their readiness score to drive how hard they train.

That said, having no energy after a big healthy breakfast is certainly a sign something is wrong. Even on days I have to drag myself to workout because I have no energy, that feeling goes away quickly.

Odd question, but do ticks live near you? My otherwise healthy and active uncle went months with greatly reduced energy before they finally diagnosed him with Lyme disease. I'm sure it's a long shot, but

figuring out issues like that when you are otherwise healthy can be a frustrating process. Best of luck!

Yep. South Carolina. Ticks and mosquitos are the state animals. 😂. I’ll mention Lyme disease to my doc too. Thanks for that. I hadn’t thought of it.

phizzy30 · June 13, 2022

On 6/5/2022 at 6:46 AM, bladehunter said:

Well. I’ve yet to measure, but a good guess is at least 80 but more like 120 oz a day. But I don’t feel like that’s nearly enough. I have a water in hand or nearby almost always. As I’m always thirsty. But I don’t always drink until I’m parched. It’s weird. I just don’t think of it until it’s late.

as far as working out in the understood sense ? Never. But. I live on a farm , and run a fab shop. I work manually all day. An example of a hard day would be like last Monday. I loaded a 28 ft rollback truck by myself by hand with old reclaimed lumber and beams we got to build a new barn with. I’d say that load weighed about 9500-10k lbs as I’ve drove that truck with a 12500 lb tractor on it and it wasn’t quite as top heavy. But close. I loaded that in 2 hours 45 min. I had two people back at home help me unload it and stack it , We unloaded it in about 45 min. So definitely akin to training hard I’d say.

Stress. Lol. Well. I’m sure that’s a large part. I mean we all are living in todays economy. So. It’s self explanatory. but I’d say recently it’s less not more. Certainly peaked in early 2020.

Keep in mind , I know nothing about fitness parameters. I’m just learning as I go because I’m tired of being tired. I’m sure more water is needed. And I can do that. I’m the type that can down 20 oz in a few seconds. No worries. So drinking more isn’t a struggle. My issue is fitting it into my routine. Making it habit. Tracking it is how that will become habit for me. Because I’m the type that won’t slow down to eat , or really drink much until I’m past the need. So consistent habit is how I make sure these things happen. That’s part of why I think tracking sleep etc will help me. Because I won’t do it unless I have a glaring thing that’s keeping me honest. If that makes sense. Just feeling bad won’t do it. I’ll keep going. And I’m getting to the age where I feel like that’s dangerous.

Always being thirsty could be a bad sign. That's one of the symptoms of diabetes. However, you did say your doctors gave you clean bill of health. Just keep monitoring your health and how you feel on a daily basis and if your fatigue levels are still high, go see a different doctor. Not trying to scare you, but my aunt who passed away 10 years had some of the same symptoms you're describing. Turns out she had cancer. Keeping drinking water but also make sure to include electrolytes whether you get it from a sports drink or vitamins. You should also look into protein powder already since you do a lot of manual labor. Also, working out never hurts even if your job requires intense, physical labor. I hope things resolve itself and this is just a phase for you.

bladehunter · June 13, 2022

47 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

Always being thirsty could be a bad sign. That's one of the symptoms of diabetes. However, you did say your doctors gave you clean bill of health. Just keep monitoring your health and how you feel on a daily basis and if your fatigue levels are still high, go see a different doctor. Not trying to scare you, but my aunt who passed away 10 years had some of the same symptoms you're describing. Turns out she had cancer. Keeping drinking water but also make sure to include electrolytes whether you get it from a sports drink or vitamins. You should also look into protein powder already since you do a lot of manual labor. Also, working out never hurts even if your job requires intense, physical labor. I hope things resolve itself and this is just a phase for you.

Yep. I hear ya.

i think the thirst might be blown out of proportion , but then again I really don’t know what normal is. I assumed most humans drank something most all day long. Mine will of course vary based on output.

But for example walked 18 holes Saturday in 90 degree heat and drank 3 20 oz bottles. Came home and drank another 12 oz right away. took a nap. Probably didn’t drink again until at dinner.

im just a guy who works in the heat. Thermometer in my shop regularly sees 85-95 inside , So I as a habit, pour it in during the week of work to keep ahead of the sweat. . It’s not a “ I’ll die if I don’t have a drink “ feeling. Anyway. I don’t know. I just feel like it’s a sudden deficiency of some sort.

Warrior42111 · June 14, 2022

I had the whoop since Jan 2021.

I'd say the big thing is you'll get what you put into it. If your just going to look at the data and do minimal or inaccurate journaling, just use a fitbit, apple watch etc. The journal, at least to me, is what sets it apart, especially if you get a couple months in, you can really see how certain habits affect you and your recovery.

I know I've woken up and felt fine but had a red recovery, so I go out and play or go to the gym for a hard workout etc. By the middle of them I was feeling it, so it's nice to know if you need more of an active recovery day vs a push it day.