Would you sign a contract with the PGATOUR if it was required in 2023?

[2bGood]

30 minutes ago, NJBigFish22 said:

Now if the players somehow become employees like in other sports, unionizing will possibly cripple the tour as well.

 Who is the owner in this scenario?

 

If the PGAT goes for-profit with the players being shared-holders, the idea of unionising makes no sense.

 

 

 

[oikos1]

8 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

Top 51-100...$500k

Top 101-125..$250K

Pat Perez OWGR is 168.  He is 88th on the PGA Tour money list.   He supposedly signed for $10 million. 

 

You could keep some players for sure, but the PGA Tour talent is being thinned out.  It seems to be too late to counter with the kind of money the LIV has.

[cdnglf]

10 minutes ago, oikos1 said:

Pat Perez OWGR is 168.  He is 88th on the PGA Tour money list.   He supposedly signed for $10 million. 

 

You could keep some players for sure, but the PGA Tour talent is being thinned out.  It seems to be too late to counter with the kind of money the LIV has.

If LIV was a football league, it would have Drew Brees locked up for $150M/y, Russell Wilson for $100M, David Carr for $75M, and a whole lotta Tim Tebows at $15M.

[Hankshank]

I would love to be in a position to be of interest for PGA tour as well as LIV. 

[lowheel]

8 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

PGATOUR would pay for this by dumping salaries..... up sponsor fees and dip into the emergency account that they breeched during Covid........plus the money acquired from LIV Golf series for the purchase of players contracts, unless they explore other options like the Asian tour.

PGA tour is a non profit and pays zero income tax. They have revenues in excess of 1 billion.. their sponsors are their bosses. Fedex is 10% owned by the Saudis, RBC has 1.3 billion investment bank with the saudis. its a delicate eco system

[TiScape]

9 hours ago, redfirebird08 said:

Top 10 would be demanding at least $50M each. Patrick Reed just got $80M for crying out loud. 

Did LIV seriously give Reed $80MM?! 

[TiScape]

2 hours ago, cdnglf said:

If LIV was a football league, it would have Drew Brees locked up for $150M/y, Russell Wilson for $100M, David Carr for $75M, and a whole lotta Tim Tebows at $15M.

Don’t forget Jamarcus Russell for $25MM 

[BIG STU]

4 hours ago, IH82BOGEY said:

My point.  Most other pro athletes are employees of the team owners.  Pro golfers are independent contractors.  The essential difference between an employee and independent contractor is control.  If the Tour can exert control of the golfers, they are, in substance, employees.

Correct as the courts have ruled in the past regarding the Trucking Industry. I am kinda versed on the trucking end because at one time I owned 3 trucks leased to 2 different companies

[BIG STU]

1 hour ago, lowheel said:

PGA tour is a non profit and pays zero income tax. They have revenues in excess of 1 billion.. their sponsors are their bosses. Fedex is 10% owned by the Saudis, RBC has 1.3 billion investment bank with the saudis. its a delicate eco system

Oh then that last sentence blows what I read on one of my feeds out of the water. I had read RBC was one of the companies that did not do business with the Saudis---- In that case it is as you said a delicate eco system

[Dicka]

4 hours ago, IH82BOGEY said:

My point.  Most other pro athletes are employees of the team owners.  Pro golfers are independent contractors.  The essential difference between an employee and independent contractor is control.  If the Tour can exert control of the golfers, they are, in substance, employees.

 

And the notion that LIV will be any different is absolute nonsense. How do you think Phil would go if he knocks on the Great White Flake's door and says he wants to play the John Deere Classic instead of the LIV event in Portland? Same tree, different branch...but they'll find any excuse to make more cash. 

[redfirebird08]

39 minutes ago, TiScape said:

Did LIV seriously give Reed $80MM?! 

 

It's a goofy market right now. If the Saudis are serious about it over the long haul, it seems the PGA Tour is destined for minor league status. 

[TiScape]

31 minutes ago, redfirebird08 said:

 

It's a goofy market right now. If the Saudis are serious about it over the long haul, it seems the PGA Tour is destined for minor league status. 

That would be like the XFL or USFL being superior to the NFL if the XFL and USFL were started and funded by a hateful and murderous regime with bottomless funds… I hope to gawd I don’t live to see that day bcs I’d 😢 

[aenemated]

41 minutes ago, redfirebird08 said:

It's a goofy market right now.

 

Goofy indeed. Are they just going to keep buying everyone all the time forever? 

 

They may have seemingly unlimited money but they're not gonna just keep dumping millions into every dude with a tour card for the next couple years. 

 

I mean, $80MM or whatever to freakin Patrick Reed? I'm not one of his big haters because I love the dude's short game but ... seriously? I've made better investments at the Spearmint Rhino. 

[EagleAteBirdie]

Wow, 80M for Reed.  Just wow.  Cheating pays.

 

With all the trouble the PGAT have had with Patrick and Bryson I suspect they are rolling around the floor laughing right now.

 

 

 

 

[cdnglf]

2 hours ago, TiScape said:

Don’t forget Jamarcus Russell for $25MM 

Johnny Football! How can you go wrong with a name like that?

Edited June 14, 2022 by cdnglf

[redfirebird08]

50 minutes ago, TiScape said:

That would be like the XFL or USFL being superior to the NFL if the XFL and USFL were started and funded by a hateful and murderous regime with bottomless funds… I hope to gawd I don’t live to see that day bcs I’d 😢 

 

I just find it sad that a legendary PGA Tour player like Mickelson is part of this. Let's flush the record books down the toilet in one swoop. We all know why Norman wants to do it. Didn't win enough majors, didn't win enough American tournaments. Mad about Finchem screwing him on the WGC stuff in the 1990's. Mickelson doesn't have any of those excuses. He has an excellent legacy in PGA Tour history, yet here he is attempting to burn it to the ground. 

[iBanesto]

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by iBanesto

[Danielson]

17 hours ago, NJBigFish22 said:

I will take a stab at some of this. You mention $200 million in signing bonuses for 125 guys, if your in the top 10 and for a four year commitment, I think you would need to be closer to $50 million each.

 

Forfeit if you fall out of top 125, no they would want guaranteed.

 

Why would the players want the PGAT to be their sole negotiator?  I’m not following you on this.  Cause why would a player want to let an organization be responsible for what they could get on their own.  

 

The tour gets to approve what deals a deals a player can sign, sort goes to my point above.

 

I could live with the $25 mill to FedEx winner, but paid 90% up front.

 

Basically if the tour wanted to go this route they would lose tax status and players would unionize and that would cost even more.

 

 

Very much agree with you. The oft mentioned "independent contractors" thing cuts both ways. I see on social media all the time that the tour is taking advantage of the players by only "letting" them be independent contractors, but the players would haaaate the alternative.

[gvogel]

18 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

Just for fun I'm trying to come up with a contract that the tour players could live with if Jay M. came up with one....I personally believe that one day this will be inevitable.......

 

My plan is full of flaws so any help would be appreciaed.....I know this site is not known for fun topics but try to bare with me....

 

Here's the Plan:

Would you sign a contract with the PGATOUR? (4 year deal)
Signing Bonus....
Top 10.....$10M
Top 11-20....$5M
Top 21-30....$3M
Top 31-40....$2M
Top 41-50....$1M
Top 51-100...$500K
Top 101-125..$250K
One time deal for a four year contract .renewal after 4 years based on your rankings at the time.
Purses are separate.

Forfeit any money if you fall out of the top 125 and you don't keep your card.
Pgatour will be the sole negotiators for the players.
$50M PIP eliminated. That's $200M up front money right there.
More money into the retirement plan.
Higher purses.
$25M FedEx cup final.
Higher stipend for the caddies.
paid lodging. Players and caddies
paid child care.
Stipend for Korn Ferry players.
Charity contributions.
Players negotiate their own advertising deals(up to 10)....with the approval of the PGATOur (no LIV deals)

The tour would have to get rid of some of the brass to pull this off but.....

**Remember all things are negotiable...

 

 

 

Where is Jay Monahan going to come up with the money for these?

[gvogel]

18 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

Just for fun I'm trying to come up with a contract that the tour players could live with if Jay M. came up with one....I personally believe that one day this will be inevitable.......

 

My plan is full of flaws so any help would be appreciaed.....I know this site is not known for fun topics but try to bare with me....

 

Here's the Plan:

Would you sign a contract with the PGATOUR? (4 year deal)
Signing Bonus....
Top 10.....$10M
Top 11-20....$5M
Top 21-30....$3M
Top 31-40....$2M
Top 41-50....$1M
Top 51-100...$500K
Top 101-125..$250K
One time deal for a four year contract .renewal after 4 years based on your rankings at the time.
Purses are separate.

Forfeit any money if you fall out of the top 125 and you don't keep your card.
Pgatour will be the sole negotiators for the players.
$50M PIP eliminated. That's $200M up front money right there.
More money into the retirement plan.
Higher purses.
$25M FedEx cup final.
Higher stipend for the caddies.
paid lodging. Players and caddies
paid child care.
Stipend for Korn Ferry players.
Charity contributions.
Players negotiate their own advertising deals(up to 10)....with the approval of the PGATOur (no LIV deals)

The tour would have to get rid of some of the brass to pull this off but.....

**Remember all things are negotiable...

 

 

 

Where is Jay Monahan going to come up with the money for these?

[alittleoverpar]

It's too early to predict what will ultimately happen IMO.  There are a lot of variables.  I understand the temptation to grab the money and run with LIV.  Hopefully, the guys that have done so will hold on to some of it, because LIV could disappear as quickly as it appeared.  

 

Some LIV questions...

 

What are they going to do when they get 72 players?  Trim the fat?  By design of their shotgun start they limit themselves to 72.  

Isn't it going to be boring to watch the same 54-72 guys play against each other every week?  

If they are going to succeed in the big time, they will need a broadcast partner, who will that be?  

And the bid one....will they continue to invest if there is no return other than sportswashing?

 

There are many more hurdles and questions to be answered before LIV seriously threatens the PGAT.  I'm not suggesting that the PGAT ignore them, but I would take a wait and see attitude for a while.

 

 

[Nixhex524]

I like the idea... I do wonder if being able to guarantee the players on the PGAT some money would help them stay...  They can not compete with LIV money but I would have to think  a restructure like this might be enough to keep players there and save the history of the PGAT...  There will always be those who chase the money but given the option, I think it could make a lot of people stay put.  Maybe the sponsors, like an RBC, kick in more?   IDK... But it's clear the players want something.

[Ferguson]

5 hours ago, redfirebird08 said:

 

I just find it sad that a legendary PGA Tour player like Mickelson is part of this. Let's flush the record books down the toilet in one swoop. We all know why Norman wants to do it. Didn't win enough majors, didn't win enough American tournaments. Mad about Finchem screwing him on the WGC stuff in the 1990's. Mickelson doesn't have any of those excuses. He has an excellent legacy in PGA Tour history, yet here he is attempting to burn it to the ground. 

 

Sad?  Why sad?   If you're a fan, you should feel betrayed.  A guy AT HIS LEVEL that hits a moving putt in a golf tourney tells the world, "this ain't about golf folks, this is about me." 

 

 

Greg Norman is driven by greed - it's been that way since day one.  

At least he's genuine.  

 

 

[alittleoverpar]

As long as the PGAT sponsors stick with them they should have some time to figure something out, or just outlast LIV.  Many of the sponsorship deals are multi-year, so it is unlikely they will lose them right away, if at all.  If the PGAT does start having sponsors and/or marketing partners back out, they they will be in real trouble.

[Titleist99]

10 hours ago, oikos1 said:

Pat Perez OWGR is 168.  He is 88th on the PGA Tour money list.   He supposedly signed for $10 million. 

 

You could keep some players for sure, but the PGA Tour talent is being thinned out.  It seems to be too late to counter with the kind of money the LIV has.

Never too  late!.......LIV has no way of cultivating talent. LIV Series only option is to steal from the PGATOUR.

You can only become famous on the PGATOUR because they have sponsor exemptions and feeder tours.....

[alittleoverpar]

4 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

Never too  late!.......LIV has no way of cultivating talent. LIV Series only option is to steal from the PGATOUR.

You can only become famous on the PGATOUR because they have sponsor exemptions and feeder tours.....

 

One thing is for certain.  LIV would not exist if not for the success of the PGAT.

[Golfer4Life]

2 minutes ago, alittleoverpar said:

 

One thing is for certain.  LIV would not exist if not for the success of the PGAT.

That's only conjecture. We will never know for sure.

 

If that's the case, the PGAT would have never existed without the PGA of America.

[Titleist99]

12 minutes ago, alittleoverpar said:

As long as the PGAT sponsors stick with them they should have some time to figure something out, or just outlast LIV.  Many of the sponsorship deals are multi-year, so it is unlikely they will lose them right away, if at all.  If the PGAT does start having sponsors and/or marketing partners back out, they they will be in real trouble.

Not  really, that's why they have those emergency funds that Phil was talking about .....just for emergencies.. The tour used them during Covid and they'll use them if a sponsor pulls out. Sponsors once lined up for tour events, it might be a little bit more difficult now but the tour will be okay...IMO

[Titleist99]

4 minutes ago, alittleoverpar said:

 

One thing is for certain.  LIV would not exist if not for the success of the PGAT.

Exactly..........

[alittleoverpar]

6 minutes ago, Golfer4Life said:

That's only conjecture. We will never know for sure.

 

If that's the case, the PGAT would have never existed without the PGA of America.

 

I agree.  The PGAT was spawned from the PGA of America.  It's entirely possible that LIV will replace the PGAT.  It's too early to speculate right now IMO.