Lack of Courtesy/Etiquette on Course

[david.c.w]

[bobfoster]

Understandable I suppose, but slightly puzzling. A 3 capper is someone that has played a lot of golf, and gotten quite good at it. There certainly are all sorts of minor etiquette-related irritations that are part of golf. Anyone that plays a lot gets used to them. Seems quite odd that a single variable - PoP - would cause someone to give up the game altogether. 

 

And at least in my experience, the idea that golf has gotten somehow worse lately is what puzzles me. Playing on a quiet course on a weekday is usually 3 - 3.5 hours. Playing on a weekend on a busy course, usually average 4:15 - 4:45. There are outliers - sub 3 hour rounds if I'm walking alone on a relatively empty course, or 5+ on a busy beautiful Saturday, especially if I'm behind an outing where alcohol is involved. But by far I'd say the majority of my rounds average in the 4 - 4.5 range. 

 

I'm now in my fifth decade of the game. Have a little perspective. Have watched the sport wax and wane over time - bursts of popularity followed by more quiet times. The two most recent bursts were the Tiger boom in the early aughts, and the recent Covid boom - both of which brought a number of new golfers to the sport. Both did admittedly cause some irritations to long time golfers, as it takes time for new golfers to not only learn how to swing, but to learn basic etiquette as well. During the initial phases of booms, I definitely did notice an increase in things like unraked traps, unfixed ball marks on the greens, complete disregard for the basic RoG & etc. Much of it not so much due to rudeness as to just cluelessness. I takes a while to learn how to play golf, and behave on the course.

 

But here's the thing, one of the variables that has stayed remarkably consistent over the years has been pace of play (and, I might add, complaining about pace of play ... ;). In the 1970s, I probably averaged a 3.5 - 4 hour round. Now it is about 4 - 4.5. But that is largely due to the evolution of the game, and especially the equipment. Don't know the precise stats, but I'd say the average course today is at least 1,000 yards longer (at the very least) ... i.e., I don't think people are playing that much slower, they are just flat out doing longer walks. 

 

So personally, I've noticed absolutely no recent trendline where rounds are now suddenly so egregiously long that I'd actually give up the sport (I mean, good grief). Yeah, the occasional 5+ hour round is mildly irritating - and as part of a long tradition, I'll grumble and whine about those - but those rounds don't seem any more frequent than they were a decade or two ago. 

 

Seems to me the relevant trendline here in not any increase in actual round times, but rather a decrease in the OP's patience with them. No matter, the sport will still be here when he gets back. Which he probably will be. People that get good at this sport often leave for a few years at a time - due to everything from young children to just throwing a hissy fit - but almost no one leaves forever.

 

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

17 hours ago, bobfoster said:

 

And at least in my experience, the idea that golf has gotten somehow worse lately is what puzzles me. Playing on a quiet course on a weekday is usually 3 - 3.5 hours. Playing on a weekend on a busy course, usually average 4:15 - 4:45. There are outliers - sub 3 hour rounds if I'm walking alone on a relatively empty course, or 5+ on a busy beautiful Saturday, especially if I'm behind an outing where alcohol is involved. But by far I'd say the majority of my rounds average in the 4 - 4.5 range. 

 

 

Yeah, this is what I don't understand. I play public courses. I typically play weekend (Sunday) mornings. Tee time usually between 8:30 and 9 AM. Usually biased towards less expensive courses, at least as it comes to Orange County standards (i.e. <$100 greens fees). 

 

This means that the tee sheets are COMPLETELY packed, and b/c it's online booking, if there is an open spot for a single or twosome when you make the time, those additional spots will absolutely be filled by the day of the round. And because it's the less expensive courses, it's not like the course is full of scratch players--there's a lot of hackers out there (checks mirror, sees self). So there are a lot of groups taking close to 400 strokes to get a foursome around 18 holes. 

 

This should be the perfect storm, between packed tee sheets and hack golfers, for slow rounds. But it never actually seems to happen. 

 

When we play the shorter course (3670 yards, par 60), we typically get around in 3:45. When we play one of the full regulation courses, it's usually 4:00-4:20. I can't even remember the last time I had a 5 hour round. 

[mshills]

Hot take:  most complaints about 5 hour rounds are like complaints about 80 hour work weeks....exaggerated.

[puttnforthe8]

On 11/5/2023 at 6:42 PM, DaddySwagMaster said:

Since my son died in 2014 I’ve averaged well over 100 rounds a year since until this year. I’ve held memberships at three different clubs during this time frame. In June I dropped my membership at my club and have only played a handful of times since the end of June. My last round was September 16th and I honestly don’t miss the game whatsoever. Interestingly maybe only to me is that it’s not how good or bad my game is (I’m a 3 handicap) because I shot a personal best 67 as recently as April and had my only hole in one a year ago. 
 

Why have I given up the game basically?  What everyone is talking about here basically. When I go to the golf course I average a 3 1/2 round as a foursome. But when I started showing up on Sunday afternoons at a private club, and end up waiting on every shot because of groups in front of us the game no longer is any fun. 
 

I’ve played in countless tournaments where you wait on every shot and I find it fascinating how many avid golfers who enter and compete in these tournaments just expect the 5+ hour round and even embrace it. Meanwhile I’ve actually been told by my GM and other golfers to “slow down, you play too fast.”  
 

I’m sorry, but I’m done accepting slow play as normal and the last few times I tried playing at my club and got held up I simply walked off the course rather than waiting. 
 

I stopped entering tournaments because of slow play, and I do consider it a form of gamesmanship by slower golfers to slow play the competition in order to gain a competitive advantage. I’ve had countless conversations with leadership at the club, as well as with other golf organizations that run tournaments. The overall attitude by the leaders in the golf industry is to bow to revenue at the expense of any sort of enforcement of pace of play rules whatsoever. 
 

It’s funny the comments about younger golfers being the problem at golf courses because I actually take issue with retirees who feel they are entitled to the entire golf course, including dictating to starters and golf courses that the married retired couple play by themselves, even with a full tee sheet on a Saturday morning, and literally don’t care that they made the 3 groups behind them wait on every shot for 18 holes because they refused to pair up to make a foursome. I actually had one retired man with his wife scream at me and the starter when the starter told him that they were playing with me. He literally screamed at the starter, “THE HELL WE ARE!!!  WE EITHER PLAY ALONE OR WE’LL GO HOME!!!

 

Honestly, I just decided that I got tired of getting angry at other golfers who were too selfish to consider anyone else that might possibly enter their little world on the golf course. And I refuse to accept, “I paid good money for this round of golf. I will do whatever I want so go screw yourself.”

 

I just have decided that there are a lot of other things in life that are more important and I won’t waste any more time and money getting angry at rude and inconsiderate golfers. 

 

Disclaimer:  this is maybe more rhetorical than anything and just a ponder moment I had.

 

It's unfortunate you are giving up golf for these reasons.  However, all these same/similar things are now happening in all aspects of life.  Are we giving up driving, going to mall/store/etc, go to play poker, go to festivals/concerts/etc?

 

These same things happen at all these 'events'.   

 

I guess its up to the individual to let these things get to us or not.  I used to be quite perturbed by the golf course issues....to the point it got me in a spot of hot water one time.  Since then, I focus on myself in all these events and try to gain peace for myself.  It doesn't always work...but I am much better off these days.

[Double Mocha Man]

7 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Yeah, this is what I don't understand. I play public courses. I typically play weekend (Sunday) mornings. Tee time usually between 8:30 and 9 AM. Usually biased towards less expensive courses, at least as it comes to Orange County standards (i.e. <$100 greens fees). 

 

This means that the tee sheets are COMPLETELY packed, and b/c it's online booking, if there is an open spot for a single or twosome when you make the time, those additional spots will absolutely be filled by the day of the round. And because it's the less expensive courses, it's not like the course is full of scratch players--there's a lot of hackers out there (checks mirror, sees self). So there are a lot of groups taking close to 400 strokes to get a foursome around 18 holes. 

 

This should be the perfect storm, between packed tee sheets and hack golfers, for slow rounds. But it never actually seems to happen. 

 

When we play the shorter course (3670 yards, par 60), we typically get around in 3:45. When we play one of the full regulation courses, it's usually 4:00-4:20. I can't even remember the last time I had a 5 hour round. 

 

The only 5 hour rounds I've experienced, I think, are in Scrambles.  Everybody's hitting on the cart girl, getting drunk, having too good of a time, lining up every putt... erasing their scorecard, chatting too much and they already have the whole day off, so why play at a steady pace? 

 

Oh, and an old friend from San Diego who happens to be the slowest player in the universe.  That is my other 5 hour round... but we only play a few times every 5 years or so.