Strokes gained data

[Krt22]

Just now, bladehunter said:

On the 2 putt rule. I’m talking stableford points.  Not strokes gained points.  I’m talking score.  Winning.  Not data or stats.  I’m just saying that it shows how often guys 3 putt and or 2 putt while trying to get up and down.  Or more accurately how relatively rare 1 putts are.  
 

 

on the stroked gained For ams.  Sure. 
 

i understand that they gathered enough data for a baseline.   That works I guess as long as the game never changes.  Which we both know it does about every 5 years.  
 

now.  That’s interesting as far as gps tracked data. Are you saying they are adding to the baseline daily with guys who use the gps  tracker methods ?  If so then that is progress I guess.  
 

i understand that we really don’t need normalization like the pros. But need doesn’t really enter into it.  We don’t need the stat at all.   I just think it’s a valid point that the stats would be more valuable if they did have a real comparative aspect to your competition.  

Yes stableford points, auto 2-putt means no 3 putts, which would benefit higher index players and those who leave long putts the most (and higher index players are more likely to leave a long putt)

 

As for SG, the game has not changed enough to sway the data sets that now comprised of millions of shots. How it's played may have changed at the tour level, but how many strokes it takes to hole out from a given point likely has barely changed. And yes the GPS based services create their data sets with what they gather. How often they update the baseline data I am not sure, but I would bet dollars to donuts there hasn't been any statistically significant changes in the last 5-10 years.  The data should only get more and more stable as the total shots counted increases. 

[DLiver]

15 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

Golf metrics gives you a comparative handicap for each aspect so you can assess where you stand relative to your actual index.

This is of huge value to me as I try to go from from 3 HC to scratch. I can compare my current game to scratch players and see where I come up short. Actually I don't even need to compare my game to scratch players, because Golfmetrics shows the handicap level for each part of my game. Some might say one should know where their strengths and weaknesses are, but I am finding that's not true. I always thought my long game was lagging and my short game was really good. All my buddies talk about how good my short game and putting is. Well it's not--for my level of player. And I've found that my long game is outstanding. Honestly I am very surprised, but after drilling down in the data, I can see the evaluation of my game is accurate.

[Dutch1008]

6 hours ago, nvr3putt said:

 

I don't think anyone needs SG stats to know that Young or Rory would have won if they putted even marginally better. Just sayin...

Sure but that isn't the only place they failed or the only way they could have won. Did Rory lose the tournament because he had 36 puts in the 4th round, or did he have 36 putts in the 4th round because he lost strokes vs the field on both approach shots and shots around the green? 

 

Rory was +3.2, +3.57, and +4.68 in SGT2G during his 1st 3 rounds and +1.49 in his final round 70.  That final round number includes losing strokes to the field in both approach shots (-.08) and around the green (-.06). So did Rory blow it because the putter went cold, or did he lose because his iron game wasn't sharp? It's true but too simplistic to just blame the putter. The truth is, on a day with little wind and a lot of low scores, Rory ended up settling for a bunch of 20 footers. 

 

Going further, if Rory hit better chip/pitch shots on 9, 14, and 18 he wins by one and nobody is talking about his putter. 

[joshrad_golf]

On 7/18/2022 at 11:39 AM, khalespace said:

Deep rough and shallow rough. If you drive into deep rough (6 inches grass) vs driving into rough with 2 inches of grass. I think they don't account for the difference. You get penalized the same. This affect Driving stats and Approach to Green Stats.

 

Or uphill vs downhill putts. Plugged in bunker vs nice lie.

Difficulty of shot is one. Short game is a good example of this. From 220 yards, say you hit it 9 yards from the pin in the fairway. Strokes gained would say this is really good, and you would gain strokes for that shot. However, what it doesn't know is that it's an elevated green and you're short sided with a firm lie, grain growing into you, and the green slopes away from you. You're only getting that up and down 2/10 times because it's so difficult. You then chip it to 15 feet, which is incredible given the difficulty of shot, but it'll say you lost strokes on that shot because as a whole, the average proximity from 9 yards is better than 15 feet.

 

This can go the opposite way, too. Say you have 100 yards to a pin on a top shelf in the back of the green, and you hit it to the fringe 8 yards away, but you're on the top of the ridge with a flat putt. Your strokes gained would be less than if you hit the green and put it to 24 feet on the bottom of the ridge, leaving yourself a difficult putt because the average shots to hole out from 24ft on the green is less than the average shots to hole out from 8 yards in the fairway.  

 

But, if you keep your strokes gained stats over the course of an entire year, or thousands of shots, then these should balance out for the most part. 

[Krt22]

1 hour ago, joshrad_golf said:

 

 

But, if you keep your strokes gained stats over the course of an entire year, or thousands of shots, then these should balance out for the most part. 

The methodology as a whole is reliant on this. Given it is a statistically driven method, you need to fully buy in and trust the macro level trends and not let yourself get side tracked by singular cases.

At the same time there is something to be said about assessing a course and assigning extra weight to places where you really should not miss. Elevated greens like pinehurst , super deep bunkers like St Andrew’s, extreme false fronts, Etc.
 

Minus super soft conditions due to rain, I can’t think of too many tour stops where you get an extra green light to fire at pins. But there are plenty where being more conservative with your target pays off in terms of bogey avoidance. 

[DLiver]

7 hours ago, Krt22 said:

Given it is a statistically driven method, you need to fully buy in and trust the macro level trends and not let yourself get side tracked by singular cases.

 

This^^^

[MUNIGRIT]

On 7/19/2022 at 9:58 AM, PorkChopExpress said:

Cam Young should have won, his stats were off the charts

other than putting hahaha

 

There’s something said about the guys that can get the ball in the hole on Sundays under pressure.

I'd say Cam Young did get the ball in the hole with a 65. He gained strokes putting. He probably should have been in a playoff with Rory but one record setting round putting by Smith got him.  

[Snoop Golfie Dogg]

On 7/18/2022 at 12:33 PM, TLUBulldogGolf said:

Datagolf is awesome, you can see the per round stats and the event stats which are the averages for each category per round, so total for the event would that x4. 

 

Cameron Young is going to be a menace, 3 shots a round T2G. And it was an insane putting week for Cam Smith. 

Do you need a paid subscription to see stats from previous tournaments?  I can only find stats for the British Open and last year's 3M Open on the site right now.

[TLUBulldogGolf]

13 minutes ago, Snoop Golfie Dogg said:

Do you need a paid subscription to see stats from previous tournaments?  I can only find stats for the British Open and last year's 3M Open on the site right now.

 

Looks like you need to subscribe to see previous years. They should have stats for all of the current year tournaments if you search by tournament name. 

[Snoop Golfie Dogg]

14 hours ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

 

Looks like you need to subscribe to see previous years. They should have stats for all of the current year tournaments if you search by tournament name. 

Cool.  Thanks.