Win the arm wrestling match??

[kylesilk]

Internal rotation of trail arm at start of downswing?  Totally opposite of what's been preached over and over. 

 

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CgX8StbD3Xq/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

[GAGolfer1]

The west coast instructors rolling over in their graves lol

[Haber]

Wow, totally different from what most preach. I love AMG but isn’t the average am way to internal already and handle yanking. Is losing to arm wrestle feel to avoid the extreme? I’ve noticed with my swing that mid way down it’s almost impossible not to go internal but it can definitely go too internal early and cause steep and handle yanking.

[kylesilk]

I just never could mesh with trying to go external to start, it just doesn't make any sense to me.  

[Krt22]

I don't think this is earth shattering. There is a difference between how things look on camera, what happens physically under the microscope with a sophisticated 3D motion capture system, and the intents needed to create the proper movements. In order to prevent someone from excessively internally rotating their trail shoulder, the feel might be to lose an arm wrestling match

 

Similar things happen with the lead wrist. If someone excessively cups it at the top or in transition, the feel may be to bow it in transition. The player may never actually bow it, but the feel might prevent them from excessively extending it.

 

Then there is the whole aspect of looking at individual movements when they happen as a compound set.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Krt22

[Trippels]

Well damn. I've been struggling wth steepening more than anything for years. Been taking lessons with Monte and started to iron out some stuff and especially working on making the wrists work correctly, but haven't quite cracked it yet.

But I've always been trying to add in some external rotation in the trail arm, because that just seemed like a major mandatory part.

After seeing this post on insta by AMG, I went and tried letting the trail arm go towards internal. And it has no adverse effect on steppening. If anything it seems to allow me to work the wrists (including forearms) better. Which shallows the shaft out nicely.

Won't say it's fixed the swing, but I think works better than me trying so hard to go external. Will keep working on it.

[golfarb1]

 

 

During external or internal rotation of the shoulder,  head of the humerus rotates within the Glenohumeral   joint 

Because the distal end of the humerus forms the upper elbow , any rotational movement of the humerus must BY DEFINITION  also move the elbow in a similar fashion . 
Internal  rotation of the trail shoulder in transition would by definition mean that the trail hands are moving faster than the trail elbow during transition and the trail hands will be covering a longer distance than the trail elbow ( winning at arm wrestling ) 

Edited July 28, 2022 by golfarb1

[Ross_Albatross]

20 hours ago, Krt22 said:

I don't think this is earth shattering. There is a difference between how things look on camera, what happens physically under the microscope with a sophisticated 3D motion capture system, and the intents needed to create the proper movements. In order to prevent someone from excessively internally rotating their trail shoulder, the feel might be to lose an arm wrestling match

 

Similar things happen with the lead wrist. If someone excessively cups it at the top or in transition, the feel may be to bow it in transition. The player may never actually bow it, but the feel might prevent them from excessively extending it.

 

Then there is the whole aspect of looking at individual movements when they happen as a compound set.

I'm guessing the ER trail shoulder look comes from more of a combo of right side bend and trail forearm rotation than purely an isolated shoulder move (as you mentioned, the compound effect)... even the poster child doesn't seem to add that much (if we compare his humerus position to his torso) 

[golfarb1]

Zero Internal  shoulder rotation from the top to his 9:00 position going down . Dustin is the poster boy for a golfer with a strong trail elbow move in transition . 

Trail lateral bend is  not a factor in external shoulder rotation . Trail lateral bend is a CONSEQUENCE of the correct trail elbow move with the trail elbow moving towards  being on and in front of the right hip as his swing progresses toward the impact zone .and the amount the pelvis is open . Trail  lateral bend is simply the result of the geometry of impact . If a golfer has his trail elbow behind his trail hip in the impact zone , there is less of a need for right lateral bend , because the distance is less . 

Depending on how much lead forearm pronation  a golfer performs going back , lead forearm pronation going down will  range from being almost completely non existent from the top to 9:00 or it could be the dominant factor . 
 

Edited July 28, 2022 by golfarb1

[Ross_Albatross]

3 minutes ago, golfarb1 said:

Zero Internal  shoulder rotation from the top to his 9:00 position going down

I can dig that... but is he exhibiting trail shoulder external rotation in the same span?... or is that just a 'look' - a byproduct of upper body / torso rotating on a different 'angle' than his lower body? that makes it seems like he's getting his trail elbow closer to his body (and obvisouly in front of his hip to be in sequence)

[aenemated]

Man, I like the stuff that AMG does but it really seems like handing a couple guys a Bloomberg terminal that don't know a single thing about a Bloomberg terminal and they have to try to explain the data coming from it. 

[ChipStrokes]

1 minute ago, aenemated said:

Man, I like the stuff that AMG does but it really seems like handing a couple guys a Bloomberg terminal that don't know a single thing about a Bloomberg terminal and they have to try to explain the data coming from it. 

haha!

 

my brother in law is a trader at a hedge fund. he brought his terminal with him when we rented a hamptons house for the summer last year. 

 

i couldn’t look at that screen for more than 2 minutes. 

[aenemated]

22 minutes ago, ChipStrokes said:

haha!

 

my brother in law is a trader at a hedge fund. he brought his terminal with him when we rented a hamptons house for the summer last year. 

 

i couldn’t look at that screen for more than 2 minutes. 

 

Haha!

 

"So, uh ... the Greeks. Theta. Theta, see theta? What that means is ... um ... it means, um ... decay. It's ... decay right? You can see it right there. That's decay. Right there. See? Ok, you get it. Moving on ... " 

[ChipStrokes]

Just now, aenemated said:

 

Haha!

 

"So, uh ... the Greeks. Theta. Theta, see theta? What that means is ... um ... it means, um ... decay. It's ... decay right? You can see it right there. That's decay. Right there. See? Ok, you get it. Moving on ... " 

“yeah dude sure thing. sounds good. we’re gonna go get drunk at the beach. wanna pick us up at 6 when you’re done with…whatever this is?”

[Krt22]

29 minutes ago, aenemated said:

Man, I like the stuff that AMG does but it really seems like handing a couple guys a Bloomberg terminal that don't know a single thing about a Bloomberg terminal and they have to try to explain the data coming from it. 

I like them too, but it's pretty clear this is targeted at a certain camp of instruction sort of as a "gotcha". The data is the data of course, I just am not sure how much this small tid bit benefits the average golfer.

 

It intrinsically makes sense though, at the top of the back swing, with your lead arm against your chest, your trail arm/hand is essentially on the "side" of your body.  At that point I am guessing your trail shoulder is is about as externally rotated as it can be (unless you are very narrow with the big flying elbow), so not sure how much more it can externally rotate given in the downswing you are actively bringing your arms back in front of your body.

[me05501]

The downside of broadly-targeted online instruction is that not every tip applies to every player. 

[Krt22]

45 minutes ago, me05501 said:

The downside of broadly-targeted online instruction is that not every tip applies to every player. 

Absolutely. The gears data is just that, data, by itself it is not instruction. How to effectively use the data is a different can of worms