Free Relief (cart path) -- what if I'm okay with a stance on cart path because ball would be in area I don't want to play from?

[antip]

43 minutes ago, Mizunoid said:

The 'line' should be 'within one club length' no matter where it is. No closer the hole is an arbitrary rule that gives no provable advantage.

 

Again, if i'm talking nonsense y'all can feel free to provide me with quantifiable strokes gained data that proves advantages which rule prevent. If they don't prevent such advantages then they're rules for the sake of rules.

Nonsense, you can provide the proof that the status quo is wrong 

[jacob7071]

6 hours ago, Mizunoid said:

The 'line' should be 'within one club length' no matter where it is. No closer the hole is an arbitrary rule that gives no provable advantage.

 

Again, if i'm talking nonsense y'all can feel free to provide me with quantifiable strokes gained data that proves advantages which rule prevent. If they don't prevent such advantages then they're rules for the sake of rules.

The "quantifiable strokes gained data that proves advantages" doesn't exist when nobody plays by the rules you're suggesting.  

 

Going back to the original question, the problem with what you're wanting is the rules allow relief when either your ball or stance or both are affected by the cart path.  So imagine a scenario where my ball is on a cart path and stymied behind a small tree.  If I drop 6 inches off the path (where my feet are still on it), I have an unobstructed line to the target.  If I drop further off the path where neither my feet nor ball are on it, it's in a bush, and I can't take a swing.  In a game where the general idea is to play the ball as it lies where you find it (with exceptions for abnormal conditions), I shouldn't get an option of 2 different drop locations when taking relief from one of those abnormal conditions.  

Edited July 30, 2022 by jacob7071

[jacob7071]

16 hours ago, Mizunoid said:

In this very thread - you can take relief from the path because nobody wants to hit their ball from it but you can't then stand on the path and hit your ball from the grass. No advantage to be gained, pointless rule.  see previous post - there could be an advantage

 

Can't drop nearer the hole. Gaining 2 yards from 160 out makes zero difference and in some cases dropping closer would actually make a shot harder ie around greens depending on pin position.  Look at putts made % from inside 2 feet vs 2-5 feet vs 5-10 feet, etc.  Percentages go down the further you get from the hole.  Look at proximity to hole from <50 yds vs 50-100 yds vs 100-150 yds, etc.  The closer you get to the hole, the easier the shot becomes.  It makes sense that the rules don't allow you to move your ball closer to the hole when your previous shot didn't earn it.

 

Dropping from knee height allowed, shoulder height now not allowed. Self explanatory.  I believe this was mentioned in a previous post.  There needs to be some element of randomness, but dropping from shoulder height in soft conditions could lead to plugged lies.

 

Accidentally hitting or touching the ball counts as a stroke. Completely stupid. Unless you're on the green then it's no penalty and replace approximately where the ball was.  I tend to agree with this rule being somewhat arbitrary.  I say if your ball is in play and you move it, whether on accident or on purpose, it should be a penalty.  If you don't want the penalty, be careful.

 

The other day two little ****s picked up my ball and left with it from 260 yards away. I was putting a card in so was forced to take a drop so my par became a bogey.  Covered in a prior post - not a penalty to place it where it came to rest.

 

Not being able to ground your club in a hazard was a stupid rule. If you want to be able to ground your club, don't hit it into a bunker.  Not being able to play with the pin in was too. I'm not sure what you mean by "play with the pin."  No relief from sprinkler heads in your line. If I'm 200 yds from the hole with multiple trees and a sprinkler head in my line, should I get to move it from behind the trees because of the sprinkler head?  There has to be some kind of limit to that relief.  No relief from a divot. OMG this again!  There's a million threads on this, but at what point is it no longer a divot?  If you're going to allow relief, at what point is it back to grass, and no relief is allowed?  Having to re-tee if you go OB with tee shot.  So don't hit a shot so poorly that it's not even on the golf course anymore.  Pro's having to sign cards when the whole TV industry and millions on TV saw what you shot.  This isn't nearly as big of a deal as you think.  People who play in golf tournaments have absolutely no problem signing a scorecard.  Them not being able to wear shorts.  That's a PGA Tour rule, not a rules of golf rule.

 

Also i think rules should be tailored to amateurs vs pro tournaments. If Rory hits one into the weeds a whole gallery plus TV crew knows where it went and helps him find it, often placing little flags in the ground where the ball is. If i see one land in the rough and know where abouts it is but can't find it, as can happen, i have to take a drop. I can kinda understand this one, but again, there's shorter grass somewhere else.  Just hit it to that area.

 

[DaveLeeNC]

18 hours ago, Mizunoid said:

The other day two little ****s picked up my ball and left with it from 260 yards away. I was putting a card in so was forced to take a drop so my par became a bogey.

Just curious how did this cost you a stroke and what rule are you proposing be added or changed to fix that? dave

[Halebopp]

9 hours ago, Mizunoid said:

I just keep hearing 'the rules are clear' - i never argued they weren't. I'm arguing that unless breaking them provides an advantage then they're pointless. 

 

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why knee height drops are fine but shoulder height no longer are. Nobody can make out that rule is anything but arbitrary, surely.

 

Less kinetic energy after dropping the ball from knee height as opposed to shoulder height means the ball will come to rest closer to the point where it first makes contact with the ground. Therefore the ball is more likely to stay within the relief area (which used to be bigger when the ball was dropped from shoulder height) and therefore less likely to require a redrop and subsequent placing of the ball. In short, it makes the whole relief process faster and more likely to result in a more random lie through dropping than it would be via placing.

[Pastit]

6 minutes ago, Halebopp said:

 

Less kinetic energy after dropping the ball from knee height as opposed to shoulder height means the ball will come to rest closer to the point where it first makes contact with the ground. Therefore the ball is more likely to stay within the relief area (which used to be bigger when the ball was dropped from shoulder height) and therefore less likely to require a redrop and subsequent placing of the ball. In short, it makes the whole relief process faster and more likely to result in a more random lie through dropping than it would be via placing.

How do you explain kinetic energy is involved ? I would have thought it’s simple gravity unless the ball is spinning which is probably banned if intentional.

[Newby]

3 minutes ago, Pastit said:

How do you explain kinetic energy is involved ? I would have thought it’s simple gravity unless the ball is spinning which is probably banned if intentional.

Kinetic energy is the energy an object possesses by virtue of its movement. The amount of kinetic energy possessed by a moving object depends on the mass of the object and its speed. The greater the mass and the speed of the object the greater its kinetic energy.

[Pastit]

22 minutes ago, Newby said:

Kinetic energy is the energy an object possesses by virtue of its movement. The amount of kinetic energy possessed by a moving object depends on the mass of the object and its speed. The greater the mass and the speed of the object the greater its kinetic energy.

Thanks, apparently it’s conversion of gravitational energy into kinetic energy. 

[Newby]

48 minutes ago, Pastit said:

Thanks, apparently it’s conversion of gravitational energy into kinetic energy. 

Before the ball is released it is potentional energy.

Edited July 30, 2022 by Newby

[Purple Toupee]

So if my feet are on the path and I don’t like the lie of my ball, I should be able to drop as many times as I like as long as my feet are still on the path?  Just keep dropping until I get a perfect lie?

[Newby]

1 hour ago, Purple Toupee said:

So if my feet are on the path and I don’t like the lie of my ball, I should be able to drop as many times as I like as long as my feet are still on the path?  Just keep dropping until I get a perfect lie?

You can't play it with your feet on the path. So why do it?

[davep043]

13 hours ago, antip said:

Nonsense, you can provide the proof that the status quo is wrong 

I agree with this.  If someone wants the rules to change, they should provide clear proof that the change would improve things.  Change for the sake of change is foolish.

[nsxguy]

9 hours ago, DaveLeeNC said:

Just curious how did this cost you a stroke and what rule are you proposing be added or changed to fix that? dave

 

1 PS for dropping instead of  placing.

[antip]

4 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

1 PS for dropping instead of  placing.

Unless it is the miracle drop, it gets you 2SP.

[Purple Toupee]

15 hours ago, Newby said:

You can't play it with your feet on the path. So why do it?

A. I certainly can play the ball with my feet on the path.

 

B.  I was asking the poster who doesn’t understand why you need to take complete relief.

[Newby]

1 hour ago, Purple Toupee said:

A. I certainly can play the ball with my feet on the path.

 

 

I meant you are not permitted to if you are taking relief from the path

[nsxguy]

18 hours ago, Purple Toupee said:

So if my feet are on the path and I don’t like the lie of my ball, I should be able to drop as many times as I like as long as my feet are still on the path?  Just keep dropping until I get a perfect lie?

 

17 hours ago, Newby said:

You can't play it with your feet on the path. So why do it?

 

2 hours ago, Purple Toupee said:

A. I certainly can play the ball with my feet on the path.

 

B.  I was asking the poster who doesn’t understand why you need to take complete relief.

 

To be fair it's clear as mud who you were talking to, or what the situation was when you made the 1st post (up top).

 

The "quote button" is your everybody's friend, especially when one is not answering the post directly immediately above.

 

Even Mr Bean quotes people (sometimes). 🙃

[Purple Toupee]

4 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

 

 

To be fair it's clear as mud who you were talking to, or what the situation was when you made the 1st post (up top).

 

The "quote button" is your everybody's friend, especially when one is not answering the post directly immediately above.

 

Even Mr Bean quotes people (sometimes). 🙃

You mean the “quote button” I used when I replied to Newby?  That’s the one you think I don’t know about?

 

It seemed like there was more than person saying that complete relief was stupid, so my post was for anyone who was saying that, that’s why I didn’t quote one person.  Sorry if that was unclear, though at least one person seemed to get it.

[Newby]

41 minutes ago, Purple Toupee said:

It seemed like there was more than person saying that complete relief was stupid, 

I certainly wasn't saying that.

[Purple Toupee]

4 minutes ago, Newby said:

I certainly wasn't saying that.

You read A., but didn’t seem to read B.

[Newby]

13 minutes ago, Purple Toupee said:

You read A., but didn’t seem to read B.

I was responding to your post which simply said - "So if my feet are on the path and I don’t like the lie of my ball, I should be able to drop as many times as I like as long as my feet are still on the path?  Just keep dropping until I get a perfect lie? "

 

B came later and didn't seem related to anything I had posted.

Edited July 31, 2022 by Newby

[nsxguy]

4 hours ago, Purple Toupee said:

You mean the “quote button” I used when I replied to Newby?  That’s the one you think I don’t know about?

 

It seemed like there was more than person saying that complete relief was stupid, so my post was for anyone who was saying that, that’s why I didn’t quote one person.  Sorry if that was unclear, though at least one person seemed to get it.

 

No, the quote button that you didn't use when YOU said "So if my feet are on the path and I don’t like the lie of my ball, I should be able to drop as many times as I like as long as my feet are still on the path?  Just keep dropping until I get a perfect lie?"

 

Since YOU didn't quote the person you were (later and ) then referring to, newby didn't know you were referring to AFTER taking relief, hence his reply "You can't play it with your feet on the path. So why do it?"

 

To which you got snippy and told him you certainly could "A. I certainly can play the ball with my feet on the path"

 

As *I* quoted in my previous post that YOU quoted and replied to.

 

Enough "quotes" for you now ?

[jimbo123]

@Purple Toupee's post was a slam dunk argument for why the rules require you to take complete relief.   Shame it got buried.   

[Newby]

6 hours ago, nsxguy said:

Since YOU didn't quote the person you were (later and ) then referring to, newby didn't know you were referring to AFTER taking relief, hence his reply "You can't play it with your feet on the path. So why do it?"

Exactly

[antip]

6 hours ago, jimbo123 said:

@Purple Toupee's post was a slam dunk argument for why the rules require you to take complete relief.   Shame it got buried.   

The observant readers recognised it's validity.

[Mr. Bean]

19 hours ago, nsxguy said:

Even Mr Bean quotes people (sometimes). 🙃

 

Yes, but only when my wife is around as I cannot find the quote button myself.

[Colin L]

Good grief!   Another thread morphing into a round of  "You said that", "No I didn't",  "Oh yes you did"....

 

Or was that a different forum?  🤔

[Purple Toupee]

1 hour ago, Colin L said:

Good grief!   Another thread morphing into a round of  "You said that", "No I didn't",  "Oh yes you did"....

 

Or was that a different forum?  🤔

Come on, you have to admit it’s at least a little bit amusing that someone felt the need to explain the quote button to me, while using a post where I used the quote button.

[Colin L]

1 hour ago, Purple Toupee said:

Come on, you have to admit it’s at least a little bit amusing that someone felt the need to explain the quote button to me, while using a post where I used the quote button.

Who said I wan't amused? 😃

[Isaac_Newton]

On 7/30/2022 at 4:42 PM, Purple Toupee said:

So if my feet are on the path and I don’t like the lie of my ball, I should be able to drop as many times as I like as long as my feet are still on the path?  Just keep dropping until I get a perfect lie?

Best response yet other than one dude getting owned by another dude about the definition of potential and kinetic energy.