LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[pingbling23]

5 minutes ago, MaineMariner said:

I haven't had the time to read any of the pleadings, but generally "irreparable harm" in the context of injunctive relief or a temporary restraining order means "if you don't grant our temporary measure now, what we're seeking in the main lawsuit will become moot by the time the main lawsuit is resolved."

 

So basically, the LIV guys are saying that (1) they should be allowed to play in the FedEx playoffs, and (2) by the time their lawsuit winds its way through the court system, the FedEx playoffs will be over. The "irreparable harm" would come to the LIV guys in the sense that once those playoffs are over, they're over. If their main lawsuit succeeds, there's no way for them to go back in time and play in the FedEx Cup playoffs.

Yeah, and the judge factored in the pga tour can just pay these guys after the case is over if they win.

[Holy Moses]

3 minutes ago, Frankensteins Monster said:

So there is literally no reason to play to win. Literally. There goes owgr that there were never going to get to begin with. 

Well once Phil wins 40 tournaments, he can start making money again 😂. Sad thing is that Phil will make less with LIV compared to endorsements plus PGA Tour now that we are pretty sure he isn’t getting tournament winnings too. Phil just needed money now.

 

There was always a catch with LIV. 

[EastTNGolfer]

From the DraftKings recap...

 

So could this have just been a error?

[Holy Moses]

7 minutes ago, Frankensteins Monster said:

So there is literally no reason to play to win. Literally. There goes owgr that there were never going to get to begin with. 

Phil is doing a great job at this

[lowndes]

So I unfortunately missed a decent portion of the hearing.  But from I did hear today wasn't a good day for LIV golf.  Their contracts are what they are but the fact that so many people lied about what was in them is incredibly embarrassing (or should be) to that organization.  The fact that winnings count against their guarantee (at least for some of the guys) isn't competitive golf.  That fact alone I almost guarantee prevents them from getting world ranking points (which they probably would not have received anyways). 

 

Plus the antitrust arguments seem to not hold much weight with her from her line of questioning.  And this is the N. District of California which is the most anti-trust friendly area of the country.  The biggest concern for the PGA Tour is their disciplinary process but that is pretty far down the list in the PGA Tour's concerns though.  That can be fixed.

 

I see the PGA Tour not looking for a quick end to this litigation as the current status quo is fine.  Not sure while their attorneys would agree to an accelerated timeline unless they are very confident they can get the case dismissed outright (which I would find shocking but much less so than prior to listening to this hearing).

Edited August 9, 2022 by lowndes

[bscinstnct]

Norman again assured Garcia that this would not be legally possible. 
 

“They cannot ban you for one day let alone life,” Norman texted. “It is a shallow threat”

 

https://nypost.com/2022/08/08/liv-golf-texts-between-greg-norman-and-sergio-garcia-revealed/amp/

[CasualLie]

22 minutes ago, pingbling23 said:

Preventing someone from potentially making over 75 million after they have qualified for the event is harm right?

 

Not when you sign a contract to play LIV for $100M.  That's the crux of it for a judge; where is the harm?

 

LIV lawyers did a fantastic "own goal" and have pretty much killed their case.  In the LIV filing while claiming PGAT drove up the prices to get players to come over, they revealed the formula used to calculate the sign on bonus was in large part to cover the lost income (and more) from not being able to play on PGAT.   Not very smart to be saying we had a way to arrive at a $ figure the players would miss out on so we used that to figure out sign on bonuses.  Oh?  So you mean they haven't lost any money???  Brilliant filing.

 

LIV and players have to know now, the whole monopoly angle is dead.  It was always going to end up that way, but now they got a preview.  You can't use funny economics to fund a new tour with seemingly limitless money, then claim harm.

 

Guess we can all go back to what it was last week: LIV will keep on spending to poach players, get a few, but not take over because majors and OWGR does matter to most of these guys.  For the very few who are young and won a major (i.e. Cam Smith) maybe this works out well, get your $100M, then a few years later go back to the real competition.  But for most going to LIV is pretty much saying I just want to get paid and then I'm out.  Maybe that's Cam's idea as well, get his $100M then forget golf, just go fishing and drink cold ones...who knows with that guy.  Regardless, other stars are in the making and LIV players will be forgotten.

Edited August 9, 2022 by CasualLie

[Frankensteins Monster]

5 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

No chance they get OWGR points unless they change their format. The PGA Tour, Masters, Open Championship, and the DP Tour hate them. 

It also opened up the very real possibility of fixing events. They are already paid. They’re can be countless wink wink miss that putt nudges. 
 

Liv is pathetic. 

[Holy Moses]

22 minutes ago, szaino said:

Bottom line common sense. the liv players have not suffered any harm.  They chose to go play elsewhere for big $.

 

The judge nearly choked when she looked at the money list of the top players from LIV as compared to the PGA tour. Couldn't see it on the webinar but she laughed and said it is almost 50/50. 

 

The irreparable harm issue kills it for the LIV players

Irreparable harm while claiming they are going to LIV for way more money is a tough claim lol. And the dumb ones like Phil aren’t even getting more money. He’s a bad gambler in life and in Vegas.

[bladehunter]

8 minutes ago, Frankensteins Monster said:

So there is literally no reason to play to win. Literally. There goes owgr that there were never going to get to begin with. 

So they’re paid a huge draw. Then they debit that draw back from “winnings “.  So they don’t win anything unless they go over the contract amount.  
 

no shot at points that way. None

[lowndes]

7 minutes ago, wedgegame said:

What was the time table?  What did she outline that the Tour should do?

 

I did not take notes but basically trials are being scheduled out into 2025 right now but she could carve out time to hear on the preliminary injunction at end of September, other things in March and trial on August 7th next year.  That seems very aggressive.  A year to prepare for a case like this would be a very large lift.  LIV seems to benefit because they need a win.  PGA Tour is best maintaining the uncertainty and status quo for as long as possible.

[Motercitysmitty]

Wonder what happens to the LIV player who gets injured and can’t make his obligation to play all 14 events. Pay back a few million? 

[lowndes]

4 minutes ago, EastTNGolfer said:

From the DraftKings recap...

 

So could this have just been a error?

 

Rob is a fantastic trial attorney and I don't see him making that type of mistake.  That would be quite the error.

[aenemated]

4 minutes ago, EastTNGolfer said:

From the DraftKings recap...

 

So could this have just been a error?

 

So much for "the best lawyers." 

 

 

[Gregakin]

Love the contract reveals and pucker factor of LIV players watching learning what discovery means if they lawyer up 🤣

[Holy Moses]

5 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

Norman again assured Garcia that this would not be legally possible. 
 

“They cannot ban you for one day let alone life,” Norman texted. “It is a shallow threat”

 

https://nypost.com/2022/08/08/liv-golf-texts-between-greg-norman-and-sergio-garcia-revealed/amp/

Sergio, the guy that couldn’t wait to leave the PGA Tour, now cares about a ban? 

[jdl]

7 minutes ago, EastTNGolfer said:

From the DraftKings recap...

 

So could this have just been a error?

The errors about the golf event locations are understandable since he's probably not a golf nut like us. But to mess up the contract info would be unconscionable for a lawyer, especially when you've provided copies of those contracts to the judge.

[Holy Moses]

4 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

So they’re paid a huge draw. Then they debit that draw back from “winnings “.  So they don’t win anything unless they go over the contract amount.  
 

no shot at points that way. None

Which is why they were lying about it. Kiss your OWGR points goodbye. 
 

People wondering why Monahan banned players, this is why. Cam Smith might still go, but I don’t see any more big guys doing it especially after the inevitable OWGR points rejection.

[pingbling23]

8 minutes ago, CasualLie said:

 

Not when you sign a contract to play LIV for $100M.  That's the crux of it for a judge; where is the harm?

 

LIV lawyers did a fantastic "own goal" and have pretty much killed their case.  In the LIV filing while claiming PGAT drove up the prices to get players to come over, they revealed the formula used to calculate the sign on bonus was in large part to cover the lost income (and more) from not being able to play on PGAT.   Not very smart to be saying we had a way to arrive at a $ figure the players would miss out on so we used that to figure out sign on bonuses.  Oh?  So you mean they haven't lost any money???  Brilliant filing.

 

LIV and players have to know now, the whole monopoly angle is dead.  It was always going end up that way, but now they got a preview.  You can't use funny economics to fund a new tour with seemingly limitless money, then claim harm.

 

Guess we can all go back to what it was last week: LIV will keep on spending to poach players, get a few, but not take over because majors and OWGR does matter to most of these guys.  For the very few who are young and won a major (i.e. Cam Smith) maybe this works out well, get your $100M, then a few years later go back to the real competition.  But for most going to LIV is pretty much saying I just want to get paid and then I'm out.  Maybe that's Cam's idea as well, get his $100M the forget golf, just go fishing and drink cold ones...who knows with that guy.  Regardless, other stars are in the making and LIV players will be forgotten.

Do courts have a habit of wanting to limit your earnings in cases like this?  If the tour is wrong in their suspensions, they are causing harm in potential earnings regardless what LIV is paying because the player is capable of earning from both.  If it wasn’t as simple as the tour paying these 3 players after the case then I think they would have been allowed to play.

[mitchl]

3 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

Irreparable harm while claiming they are going to LIV for way more money is a tough claim lol. And the dumb ones like Phil aren’t even getting more money. He’s a bad gambler in life and in Vegas.

phil is going to make WAY WAY more in LIV than he could make on the course.   
 

as for the loss of sponsorships, that may be in part of joining LIV, but I would think that he probably could have restructured those contracts…. But Phil made himself toxic,   And he spread that to his fellow LIVrs too.  
his comments and then his responses, burned both ends,   It put into question whether he is a good, loyal partner to his sponsors.   All of that is on Phil.  He likely could have worked with a PR person and got at least Callaway back…but instead he went totally quiet, and now just seems like a sad and different person.  
 

I was a Phil phan, but I wouldn’t want to sponsor him now.

[Holy Moses]

7 minutes ago, Motercitysmitty said:

Wonder what happens to the LIV player who gets injured and can’t make his obligation to play all 14 events. Pay back a few million? 

Ask LIV. I’m sure they’ll tell the truth.

[wedgegame]

7 minutes ago, Frankensteins Monster said:

It also opened up the very real possibility of fixing events.

I believe I heard on the No Laying Up or Shotgun Start podcast that LIV stopped communicating with an organize that basically signs off on the integrity of sporting event for gambling purposes.

[Frankensteins Monster]

15 minutes ago, Frankensteins Monster said:

It also opened up the very real possibility of fixing events. They are already paid. They’re can be countless wink wink miss that putt nudges. 
 

Liv is pathetic. 

Now we know why Stenson “won” that last shotgun exhibition after making such a hard decision to relinquish his Ryder cup captaincy.

 

And yes, I quoted myself!

Edited August 9, 2022 by Frankensteins Monster

[Holy Moses]

7 minutes ago, jdl said:

The errors about the golf event locations are understandable since he's probably not a golf nut like us. But to mess up the contract info would be unconscionable for a lawyer, especially when you've provided copies of those contracts to the judge.

Lawyers are paid big bucks not to make mistakes like this. It’s a really bad look. Your job as a lawyer is to get the details right. You lost your complaint today and looked like an amateur while doing it.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Holy Moses

[ThinkingPlus]

So has each LIV player been given all the trophies and they just give them back if they don't win? 😉

[getitdaily]

Hahahahaha...judge said "Greg No Man!"

 

Norman seems to have made assurances to guys that are now being shown to be just what Norman is...pompously blind overreach.

[Holy Moses]

Luckily the action at LIV is just like the Ryder Cup

[jdl]

 

[bladehunter]

5 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

Which is why they were lying about it. Kiss your OWGR points goodbye. 
 

People wondering why Monahan banned players, this is why. Cam Smith might still go, but I don’t see any more big guys doing it especially after the inevitable OWGR points rejection.

Agree. Anyone who thought Greg didn’t have some shady omissions in his pocket is crazy. 
 

I’d cheer if this changed cams mind. 

[mitchl]

Ramification questions of this LIV loss

 

1- does this impact people deciding to leave?   Now that it seems at least until the big case is adjudicated, there is no play on the PGA Tour.    And do these players take less value in what Norman and Phil say since this was rejected?

 

2- does it impact Augusta or the PGA (or the Opens) having LIVrs play those events.  (As for me, I hope winners keep their exemption, it seems unlikely any non- major winner will stay in the top 50 by April.