LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[MtlJeff]

15 hours ago, pingbling23 said:

Originally I thought it was classless as well but it was posted in the other thread that later on Sheffler high fived him after cam hit a good shot so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he accidentally did it.

 

I would guess there's gonna be some good PIP money given to PGA guys who bash LIV and the guys who go the most. Rory, Thomas, Sheffler etc....

 

Probably just told him "i'm gonna get a mill in PIP for doing that, you get it right?"

 

Cam "yes i get, for i too am highly motivated by money"

 

(high five each other)

[bscinstnct]

 

 

Cam shouldn’t worry, in a week, he’ll just be a fleeting Joe Dirt meme 🤣

 

 

I assume he got 150MM and given he’s major exempt for 5 years, I’m sure he did what’s best for himself. 

[bscinstnct]

Liv Boston tickets prices already plummeting…

 

 $14

 

🤣

 

https://www.stubhub.com/liv-golf-invitational-series-bolton-tickets-9-2-2022/event/150340224/?quantity=1

[idrive]

Watching part of the tournament yesterday I realized that other than DJ there didn't seem like anybody was missing. Certainly not anybody that had a realistic chance to compete.

 

Sad to see a guy like CS drift off into the sunset and for the most part, he will be forgotten. Moving to liv means you no longer have any relevancy in regard to professional golf. None, unless having lots of money makes you relevant. 

 

Freddy tells it like it is.  I think this is what most of the players think about liv.

 

Fred Couples roasts LIV Golf, Greg Norman (msn.com)

[ahenderX]

30 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

 

Cam shouldn’t worry, in a week, he’ll just be a fleeting Joe Dirt meme 🤣

 

 

I assume he got 150MM and given he’s major exempt for 5 years, I’m sure he did what’s best for himself. 

I’m not convinced all majors will allow LIV players, even those with exemptions. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

14 hours ago, mitchl said:

1 - given the players will all make more in LIV and as she had stated any loss of sponsorships and major wins was already cooked into the LIV contracts, them showing any damage is a long road uphill.    All the claims in the suit about antitrust against LIV will be interesting in how the current plaintiffs are a part of that, or again, how they show damage.

 

 

Per all of the below, remember that I'm an engineer, not a lawyer...

 

From a legal perspective, I don't think they have to show harm. That's a necessary showing for the temporary restraining order to allow them to play in the FedEx Cup Playoffs, and the judge laughed it out of court. She said that not only had they not shown irreparable harm, they hadn't even shown they were harmed at all. 

 

From the actual lawsuit, what they're trying to show is that the PGA Tour is a monopoly and that the Conflicting Events and Media Rights restrictions are an unlawful restraint of trade to maintain the monopoly and keep any potential competitor from becoming viable. It's IMHO about showing that the PGA Tour is doing wrong rather than showing the individual monetary harm flowing from that wrong. 

 

That question won't hinge on whether the individual golfers in the suit got fat contracts in order to leave. In fact, in the lawsuit it was claimed that because of the anticompetitive policies by the PGA Tour, LIV was forced into paying significantly large guaranteed contracts to entice players that might be exposing themselves to suspensions or bans. That statement was used to bolster the claim that the PGA Tour's policies are intended to reduce competition. (Which is true IMHO, but the argument that those policies are illegal is not yet established.)

 

[mitchl]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

 

 

Cam shouldn’t worry, in a week, he’ll just be a fleeting Joe Dirt meme 🤣

 

 

I assume he got 150MM and given he’s major exempt for 5 years, I’m sure he did what’s best for himself. 

 

if he takes a penny less than 250m, he’s a chump.   He’s only the 3rd or4th legit top player LIV would sign, and he’s way better right now than The rest of the LIV field.

[Krt22]

8 minutes ago, mitchl said:

 

if he takes a penny less than 250m, he’s a chump.   He’s only the 3rd or4th legit top player LIV would sign, and he’s way better right now than The rest of the LIV field.

I disagree, he found lightning in a bottle and very likely could lose it at any point, he is smart to cash out now and not later before his stock could drop. He has had a single break through year, largely because his putter got really hot. LIVing and dying by the putter doesn't typically work out well on tour (neither does a big left miss, which he has)

[khalespace]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

Liv Boston tickets prices already plummeting…

 

 $14

 

🤣

 

https://www.stubhub.com/liv-golf-invitational-series-bolton-tickets-9-2-2022/event/150340224/?quantity=1

I will wait for $1 and a free burger and drink. And I still need to think about it.

[khalespace]

20 minutes ago, mitchl said:

 

if he takes a penny less than 250m, he’s a chump.   He’s only the 3rd or4th legit top player LIV would sign, and he’s way better right now than The rest of the LIV field.

Agree, he shouldn't take less than what they have paid Mickleson.

[idrive]

Latest I read was $140 mi.

 

21 minutes ago, mitchl said:

 

if he takes a penny less than 250m, he’s a chump.   He’s only the 3rd or4th legit top player LIV would sign, and he’s way better right now than The rest of the LIV field.

 

I agree. Anything less than 200 - 250mi. is a ton of money left on the table.

[cristphoto]

21 hours ago, smashdn said:

 

Not conflating the two, just a hypothetical where he elects not to play any PGAT events and does not meet the 15 event minimum.  Is he able to then come back (through the proper procedures) without suspension?

 

I again think it is interesting that the PGAT seems and is very accommodating to players who play different events on different tours, just not LIV Golf events.  This seemed especially at odds with their prior actions for the London event, as it was not being held in North America.  I seem to recall there is/was a provision about other tour events not held on NA soil in the PGAT guidelines.

 

I recall several years ago Martin Kaymer won the Players Championship, the PGA, and the US Open (though not in same year).  He was given the normal exemptions for the majors but never given PGA Tour membership as he was predominately a Euro Tour player.  But a player can win three times on Corn Ferry and get in immediately.  Seems odd.  

[mitchl]

1 hour ago, ahenderX said:

I’m not convinced all majors will allow LIV players, even those with exemptions. 

I agree … but 
 

I am not proLiv…I think LIV is not good for golf, but really don’t understand how you exclude the LIV players if they either have the win or performance exemption, they work through a qualifier or they qualify via OWGR.

 

the majors are independent of the tours.     If LIV is actually making these players less competitive (which I too agree with) , let that be proven in the majors.

 

 

[subrew]

TXG just posted a video of Johnny Wunder giving Ian a tour of the Callaway truck at The Open.  What was interesting was how they zoomed in a couple times specifically on Phil's equipment bin, then did two long pans of all the equipment bins with their respective player's names printed on The Open cards.  Phil, the Gooch etc.  

[ChrisL52188]

1 hour ago, idrive said:

Watching part of the tournament yesterday I realized that other than DJ there didn't seem like anybody was missing. Certainly not anybody that had a realistic chance to compete.

 

Sad to see a guy like CS drift off into the sunset and for the most part, he will be forgotten. Moving to liv means you no longer have any relevancy in regard to professional golf. None, unless having lots of money makes you relevant. 

 

Freddy tells it like it is.  I think this is what most of the players think about liv.

 

Fred Couples roasts LIV Golf, Greg Norman (msn.com)

That's funny coming from Fred... He obviously forgets. 

[mitchl]

16 minutes ago, subrew said:

TXG just posted a video of Johnny Wunder giving Ian a tour of the Callaway truck at The Open.  What was interesting was how they zoomed in a couple times specifically on Phil's equipment bin, then did two long pans of all the equipment bins with their respective player's names printed on The Open cards.  Phil, the Gooch etc.  

 

 

Gooch and Grace are still listed as Callaway pros on the website.   Phil got removed because he is toxic… that was a while before LIV’s London event.   But I have thought  he gets whatever equipment support he wants from Callaway.    
 

i know that some pros are getting dropped, but it seems like some are not.  I suspect it may be based on the current contract, or perhaps they have renegotiated to continue sponsorship.    I doubt anyone would make the same hat money for playing a limited schedule in LIV with such limited audience, vs the wider audience with TV coverage.

 

[bscinstnct]

48 minutes ago, khalespace said:

I will wait for $1 and a free burger and drink. And I still need to think about it.

 

Ya, the problem is everybody think they go to $1 so people definitely will wait until there’s some free food on offer. 
 

Free beer? 🍺🤣

 

Yeah, fans will start thinking…

 

Wait a minute. If these guys are getting paid $200MM, then why shouldn’t I get something too!

 

It’s going to happen ; )

Edited August 12, 2022 by bscinstnct

[tiderider]

57 minutes ago, mitchl said:

I agree … but 
 

I am not proLiv…I think LIV is not good for golf, but really don’t understand how you exclude the LIV players if they either have the win or performance exemption, they work through a qualifier or they qualify via OWGR.

 

the majors are independent of the tours.     If LIV is actually making these players less competitive (which I too agree with) , let that be proven in the majors.

 

 

i just don't see the majors doing that ... 

 

1 hour ago, cristphoto said:

 

I recall several years ago Martin Kaymer won the Players Championship, the PGA, and the US Open (though not in same year).  He was given the normal exemptions for the majors but never given PGA Tour membership as he was predominately a Euro Tour player.  But a player can win three times on Corn Ferry and get in immediately.  Seems odd.  

he turned it down, according to wiki: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Kaymer#2008–2009:_Continued_success

[smashdn]

58 minutes ago, cristphoto said:

 

I recall several years ago Martin Kaymer won the Players Championship, the PGA, and the US Open (though not in same year).  He was given the normal exemptions for the majors but never given PGA Tour membership as he was predominately a Euro Tour player.  But a player can win three times on Corn Ferry and get in immediately.  Seems odd.  

 

I haven't read up on this but apparently there is/was "special temporary membership."  As I was looking up Hideki (I hate to keep using him as an example but he has an interesting path) it showed he played on both the Japan Tour and PGAT in 2014 iirc.  He was given  membership through "non-member earnings" according to wikipedia.  It seems odd/interesting to me that the PGAT can "pull in" players based upon earnings.  Which if you are angling for a tour card is fine and works to your favor.  But I think it is funny when the LIV haters bash them based upon them "poaching" top talent.  The shoe is on the other foot and it doesn't fit worth a darn.

[dalehead]

1 hour ago, subrew said:

TXG just posted a video of Johnny Wunder giving Ian a tour of the Callaway truck at The Open.  What was interesting was how they zoomed in a couple times specifically on Phil's equipment bin, then did two long pans of all the equipment bins with their respective player's names printed on The Open cards.  Phil, the Gooch etc.  

So what?

 

20 hours ago, RobS said:

 My only prediction is that by the time the dust settles on PGA/LIV legal matters, most of us will have lost interest in the topic.

Exactly. The judge in the TRO action noted that the full law suit could be scheduled for fall of 2023. With the usual delays and continuances this could easily be fall of 2024. Add a couple of months for trial and a decision. Then several years of appeals. By that time either LIV and the PGAT will have come to an agreement or LIV will no longer be relevant.

[Holy Moses]

36 minutes ago, dalehead said:

So what?

 

Exactly. The judge in the TRO action noted that the full law suit could be scheduled for fall of 2023. With the usual delays and continuances this could easily be fall of 2024. Add a couple of months for trial and a decision. Then several years of appeals. By that time either LIV and the PGAT will have come to an agreement or LIV will no longer be relevant.

Why they should settle before this

[jdl]

27 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

I haven't read up on this but apparently there is/was "special temporary membership."  As I was looking up Hideki (I hate to keep using him as an example but he has an interesting path) it showed he played on both the Japan Tour and PGAT in 2014 iirc.  He was given  membership through "non-member earnings" according to wikipedia.  It seems odd/interesting to me that the PGAT can "pull in" players based upon earnings.  Which if you are angling for a tour card is fine and works to your favor.  But I think it is funny when the LIV haters bash them based upon them "poaching" top talent.  The shoe is on the other foot and it doesn't fit worth a darn.

Huh, so paying huge $$ up front to a player is the same to you as a player earning a card by actually winning enough $$ on the course?

 

And Hideki wasn't "given" a membership, he earned it. Just like Tom Kim did this season.

 

Some amazing cognitive dissonance here.

 

And not all the guys that earn a card that way decide to move over. Thomas Pieters earned his in 2017 and played some early PGA Tour events in 2018 but decided he'd rather play close to home and went back to the Euro Tour. Good luck trying that with LIV.

[RichieHunt]

3 hours ago, mitchl said:

I agree … but 
 

I am not proLiv…I think LIV is not good for golf, but really don’t understand how you exclude the LIV players if they either have the win or performance exemption, they work through a qualifier or they qualify via OWGR.

 

the majors are independent of the tours.     If LIV is actually making these players less competitive (which I too agree with) , let that be proven in the majors.

 

 

 

I doubt the British Open and US Open will ban LIV players from playing in them.  They don't really have to as most of them are probably not exempt and will have to qualify thru the sectional qualifiers.  That's a difficult task as is.

 

The PGA Championship will be interesting.  I think the Masters would rather just move on and follow the route of the US and British Opens...but when Norman keeps criticizing the Masters and Fred Ridley who haven't done a thing...that may decide the LIV Tour players' fate for them.  If Hord Hardin or Clifford Roberts were still the Masters chairman, they wouldn't have put up with Norman's ridiculousness for a second.  The LIV Tour players could kiss the Masters goodbye.  

 

Ridley is more forgiving that Roberts and Hardin, but I wouldn't test his forgiveness.

 

 

 

 

RH

 

[Potatohead]

6 hours ago, ahenderX said:

I’m not convinced all majors will allow LIV players, even those with exemptions. 

 

Agreed. I think Augusta National is really peeved so many of their champs have gone and it wouldn't surprise me to see them tell those guys to get bent. 

[TheNutman]

Pretty upset with this dude. He steals the Open from Rory, albeit well-played, a bit of a villain role. Then pads his piggy-bank with a LIV contract, but doesn't have the balls to announce it so he can double-dip in the playoffs. Then, once he's done extracting all the PGA money he will switch to LIV. Thoughts? 

[pingbling23]

13 minutes ago, TheNutman said:

Pretty upset with this dude. He steals the Open from Rory, albeit well-played, a bit of a villain role. Then pads his piggy-bank with a LIV contract, but doesn't have the balls to announce it so he can double-dip in the playoffs. Then, once he's done extracting all the PGA money he will switch to LIV. Thoughts? 

Or he was the best player at the open and won.  He is making a smart financial decision, something all players want to do.  He didn’t announce because it would have focused all the attention on that instead of the playoffs.  He earns everything he gets from the pga tour and is free to switch to LIV.

[TheNutman]

10 minutes ago, pingbling23 said:

Or he was the best player at the open and won.  He is making a smart financial decision, something all players want to do.  He didn’t announce because it would have focused all the attention on that instead of the playoffs.  He earns everything he gets from the pga tour and is free to switch to LIV.

sure, he is free to switch, and I am free to vent and be pissed at him. That's how it works. 

[tiderider]

1 hour ago, Potatohead said:

 

Agreed. I think Augusta National is really peeved so many of their champs have gone and it wouldn't surprise me to see them tell those guys to get bent. 

they will never disallow a previous champion because they joined a circus to play exhibition golf ... they're still a masters champion ... 

[GriperRiper]

33 minutes ago, TheNutman said:

Pretty upset with this dude. He steals the Open from Rory, albeit well-played, a bit of a villain role. Then pads his piggy-bank with a LIV contract, but doesn't have the balls to announce it so he can double-dip in the playoffs. Then, once he's done extracting all the PGA money he will switch to LIV. Thoughts? 

i think you are certainly entitled to your own opinion and I think a lot of others share the same feeling. I am someone who isn't loyal to the PGAT or LIV, and I have no issues with any player who wants to take a "guarantee" payday for something they are in the 1% (skill wise), and worked hard to get elite at. I admittedly don't see anyone who "takes the money" as someone who is a evil sell out and (insert saudi ref.). I also think that LIV has a lot of potential to be great, but that will be proven over time as I would like to see the "team" become more of the focus. I think the only thing I can think of that is close to what is happen in golf, is soccer/futbol leagues all around the world (I am not a follower of any of it), but I know some of those players sign with other leauges and they are looked at as traitors. SO, I think you are fine in thinking/feeling that way, but I for one see it a bit different......not sure if any of this helps or what you were asking.

[Hardluckster]

53 minutes ago, TheNutman said:

Pretty upset with this dude. He steals the Open from Rory, albeit well-played, a bit of a villain role. Then pads his piggy-bank with a LIV contract, but doesn't have the balls to announce it so he can double-dip in the playoffs. Then, once he's done extracting all the PGA money he will switch to LIV. Thoughts? 

He flat out beat Rory in The Open. 

 

As for his potential move to LIV, I cannot fault him for it. If reports are correct, he will immediately upon signing earn a lot more than Tiger did in his entire PGAT career. 

 

As for the playoffs, he has earned the right to compete in these events. He won't be ineligible from the PGAT until/if he tees it up on the LIV tour. I can't fault him for that either.