LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[BNGL]

5 hours ago, Rob G 89 said:

Imagine crushers Dallas based team Bryson spieth scheff and Willy z. That would be a force 

Hoge for zalatoris bad back at that age isn’t good

[2bGood]

2 hours ago, CDM said:

 

Some of us did 😀      Sounds like PIF is just the bank now for PGA Tour?  Who knows, they still have to VOTE on this so it could be voted down. 

 

I do think IF they structure this right  WE AS FANS are going to WIN big time and that is what is important...!  

 

RYDER CUP is going to be interesting now...!    Is SERGIO now going to play with RAHM  ???

I don't think that is true. It can't be good to have an Absolute Monarchy to be in control of all of profession golf at the highest level. Basically one person will have financial control of it all. Sure the next few years it might work well, but long term it is not good for fans at all. What happens when a country critiques the Monarchy and they lose their tour events? 

[HackerDad78]

The most telling thing I've read about this whole debacle is the following: 

 "The agreement reached with LIV is only a framework agreement; once there is a finalized agreement, the policy board, which includes players, will have to vote to approve it." from the New York Times.  

Bottom line, they haven't thought through a whole lot of anything aside from PIF rolling up golf because LIV wasn't going to get them where they needed to go. That's what this deal tells me. Norman didn't know which says everything to me about the quality and success of the LIV product. The players didn't know which tells me about Jay's level of integrity as a partner and commissioner.  This was a back alley deal between Monahan and the PIF and there's still a LOT to work out. Jay may have very well shot himself in the foot with his player credibility and he will damn well need to figure out how to get the PGA loyalists compensated for standing by him while he was sharpening the knife he just drive into their backs with this deal. He used every single one of them, including Tiger. He described the player meeting this afternoon as "heated." Yeah, you think? 

No respect for a guy like him. He's a self-serving pig and is no better than Norman, who seems to have been passed over by his PIF handlers to boot. 

Money talks. But color me skeptical of this all working out like sunshine and rainbows if the players tell Jay to eat it. 

[2putttom]

...."Money talks. But color me skeptical of this all working out like sunshine and rainbows if the players tell Jay to eat it. "  That tells me that LIV would be the winner.  Stay tuned for part four  🙄

[IndyArcher]

On 5/22/2023 at 2:41 PM, Frankensteins Monster said:

Thought the sports media world would be talking about a Liv golfer winnings a major? Turns out, Koepka is just a footnote to Block’s week.

 

Apparently a footnote typed in bold font in ALL CAPS!

[Golferpaul]

15 hours ago, 2bGood said:

I don't think that is true. It can't be good to have an Absolute Monarchy to be in control of all of profession golf at the highest level. 

I don't see that happening, but I'm willing to wait until the facts are out before deciding.

[Purple Toupee]

On 6/6/2023 at 10:00 AM, 2bGood said:

They have 5 independents listed, 5 PGAT players, 4 Champion Players, the PAC Chair (player), Korn Ferry Pac Chair (player)  and the PGA of America rep (non player). 

 

6 Directors who are not players and 11 that are players.

 

 https://www.pgatour.com/company/board-of-directors

 

Maybe I am confused how this list their directors. 

Still think the players were in control?

 

 

[2bGood]

1 hour ago, Purple Toupee said:

Still think the players were in control?

 

 

Time will tell. Their representatives will have to vote on the new deal, before it can go through. It would not be the first time a CEO announced a merger to have his board vote not to move forward. 

[bighitlama]

On 6/6/2023 at 7:12 PM, HackerDad78 said:

The most telling thing I've read about this whole debacle is the following: 

 "The agreement reached with LIV is only a framework agreement; once there is a finalized agreement, the policy board, which includes players, will have to vote to approve it." from the New York Times.  

Bottom line, they haven't thought through a whole lot of anything aside from PIF rolling up golf because LIV wasn't going to get them where they needed to go. That's what this deal tells me. Norman didn't know which says everything to me about the quality and success of the LIV product. The players didn't know which tells me about Jay's level of integrity as a partner and commissioner.  This was a back alley deal between Monahan and the PIF and there's still a LOT to work out. Jay may have very well shot himself in the foot with his player credibility and he will damn well need to figure out how to get the PGA loyalists compensated for standing by him while he was sharpening the knife he just drive into their backs with this deal. He used every single one of them, including Tiger. He described the player meeting this afternoon as "heated." Yeah, you think? 

No respect for a guy like him. He's a self-serving pig and is no better than Norman, who seems to have been passed over by his PIF handlers to boot. 

Money talks. But color me skeptical of this all working out like sunshine and rainbows if the players tell Jay to eat it. 

I think this is how he is going to get them on his side.   He's going to sit down with any players that want to be part of the meeting and tell them that the lawsuits were a time bomb getting ready to explode.   There was good chance the tour was going to lose their non profit status and the possibility of damages for their monopolistic behavior were enormous.   While the PIF fund also had exposure, money means nothing to these guys.   I felt you players would be better off making twice as much money in the near future instead of possibly half as much if things began to unravel.   I also wanted to run cover for you guys.   The reason I told none of you about this is because I wanted each and every one of you to be able to say you had nothing to do with the decision to get involved with the Saudis.   Everyone of you can blame me for making you richer, I'm willing to take the fall.

[smashdn]

12 hours ago, bighitlama said:

I think this is how he is going to get them on his side.   He's going to sit down with any players that want to be part of the meeting and tell them that the lawsuits were a time bomb getting ready to explode.   There was good chance the tour was going to lose their non profit status and the possibility of damages for their monopolistic behavior were enormous.   While the PIF fund also had exposure, money means nothing to these guys.   I felt you players would be better off making twice as much money in the near future instead of possibly half as much if things began to unravel.   I also wanted to run cover for you guys.   The reason I told none of you about this is because I wanted each and every one of you to be able to say you had nothing to do with the decision to get involved with the Saudis.   Everyone of you can blame me for making you richer, I'm willing to take the fall.

 

The forum software will unfortunately only let me like your post once.

 

I remember a young Michael Corleone cutting out a befuddled Tom Hagen.  In the short term it was not apparent why.  In the long run it was the correct decision.

Edited June 8, 2023 by smashdn
adverbs

[HackerDad78]

17 hours ago, bighitlama said:

I think this is how he is going to get them on his side.   He's going to sit down with any players that want to be part of the meeting and tell them that the lawsuits were a time bomb getting ready to explode.   There was good chance the tour was going to lose their non profit status and the possibility of damages for their monopolistic behavior were enormous.   While the PIF fund also had exposure, money means nothing to these guys.   I felt you players would be better off making twice as much money in the near future instead of possibly half as much if things began to unravel.   I also wanted to run cover for you guys.   The reason I told none of you about this is because I wanted each and every one of you to be able to say you had nothing to do with the decision to get involved with the Saudis.   Everyone of you can blame me for making you richer, I'm willing to take the fall.

Interesting perspective. I hope it does work out well for the players. It just smacks of so much hypocrisy that it's hard for me to believe JM's benevolence was the real motivator. But in the bigger picture, I do truly hope it makes golf better.  The division between LIV and the PGAt was a growing turn-off and I found myself tuning out of all things golf aside from majors because I was getting sick of the grade school nonsense.

 

[bighitlama]

1 hour ago, HackerDad78 said:

Interesting perspective. I hope it does work out well for the players. It just smacks of so much hypocrisy that it's hard for me to believe JM's benevolence was the real motivator. But in the bigger picture, I do truly hope it makes golf better.  The division between LIV and the PGAt was a growing turn-off and I found myself tuning out of all things golf aside from majors because I was getting sick of the grade school nonsense.

 

"Benevolence"?   I agree with you 100%.   His motivation is the big raise he's getting from the PIF fund to give the Saudi's exactly what they wanted in the first place.   The Saudi's said they were willing to commit many years to this and they got it done in a year and half and for less than half for what it could have cost.  Monahan is the biggest hypocrite in the world but at the end of the day he delivered for the players at least monetarily.   He is also not the guy at the top for the first time as PGA Commissioner.   The new Chairman of the Board controls all that new needed PIF money for the PGA Tour...  this is just going to get even more interesting.

[fowlerscousin]

https://youtube.com/shorts/WkRv3jCCmpA?feature=share

[heynow]

Although I have no proof,  my opinion is that when the PGA Tour came out last year announcing their revamped 2023 schedule with all of their increased purse $$$ as a response to compete with LIV,  it was a ruse b/c they really didn't have all of that extra cash on hand to pay out everything they planned in 2023.   They probably spent all winter up until recent with hat in hand to all of their sponsors and trying to get new sponsors.  

 

I know that Phil has said that the PGA Tour has a ton of cash,  but maybe it's not as liquid as it should be meaning that there's a lot of PGA Tour execs (and probably way too many) that live the high life.

 

Anyway it's mid 2023 and there's now a lot of more purse $$$ that needs to be paid out for their upcoming events and they don't have it.   I think this sudden merger was a bailout

[smashdn]

On 6/6/2023 at 9:57 AM, Rob G 89 said:

Imagine crushers Dallas based team Bryson spieth scheff and Willy z. That would be a force 

 

"Lone Stars"  Sponsored by Shiner or Pearl.

 

I am for this.  I don't really care what the common bond is within the teams but I like it.

 

Give me Figjam, Bubba, Brian Harman and Sam Adams - the "Lofty Lefties."  That needs work.  Pickin's are a bit slim after the first two and the name is trash.  Work in progress.  Sponsored by a dispensary, you know because left hand cigarettes.

 

Shane Lowry, Beef, Greame Mcdowell, Graham Delaet - "Bearded Bashers"  Could be sponsored by Brylcreem or some other facial hair styling product company.

[jimecherry]

1 hour ago, heynow said:

Although I have no proof,  my opinion is that when the PGA Tour came out last year announcing their revamped 2023 schedule with all of their increased purse $$$ as a response to compete with LIV,  it was a ruse b/c they really didn't have all of that extra cash on hand to pay out everything they planned in 2023.   They probably spent all winter up until recent with hat in hand to all of their sponsors and trying to get new sponsors.  

 

I know that Phil has said that the PGA Tour has a ton of cash,  but maybe it's not as liquid as it should be meaning that there's a lot of PGA Tour execs (and probably way too many) that live the high life.

 

Anyway it's mid 2023 and there's now a lot of more purse $$$ that needs to be paid out for their upcoming events and they don't have it.   I think this sudden merger was a bailout

maybe all those golf courses have drained the billions the tour gets from broadcast/tv rights

Quote

Owned, operated, and licensed by the PGA TOUR, the TPC Network is comprised of more than 30 premier private, resort and daily fee golf properties designed by some of golf's most elite architects. 

then again the real-estate value of all those premium courses has to account for something.

[CaymanS]

I'm hearing conflicting views on whether LIV will continue to exist and hold tournaments.  What are you guys thinking?  Do you want LIV to continue?

[TiScape]

2 hours ago, CaymanS said:

I'm hearing conflicting views on whether LIV will continue to exist and hold tournaments.  What are you guys thinking?  Do you want LIV to continue?

I feel it was only started as a way for the PIF to get their teeth into the PGAT. Now that has seemingly been accomplished, my guess is it fades away. 

[Motoboss]

On 6/10/2023 at 2:11 PM, CaymanS said:

I'm hearing conflicting views on whether LIV will continue to exist and hold tournaments.  What are you guys thinking?  Do you want LIV to continue?

NO! Hell NO.

[Retrop1]

On 6/10/2023 at 2:11 PM, CaymanS said:

I'm hearing conflicting views on whether LIV will continue to exist and hold tournaments.  What are you guys thinking?  Do you want LIV to continue?

I think they will keep it for now and possibly blend it all together later maybe like all the big sports are with American and National Leagues, etc. If LIV is kept intact and each team ownership group had a vote on issues like other sports leagues, then that could potentially be a model that keeps them out of trouble with the antitrust issues. It wouldn't be a true apples to apples comparison unless each team also had some sort of equity and revenue sharing with the tour/league, but it will be interesting regardless. 

 

 

[bladehunter]

Phil’s team copied its logo - exactly ? 
 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/liv-golf-phil-mickelson-sued-2023/amp 

[aus10KC]

On 6/9/2023 at 8:09 AM, heynow said:

Although I have no proof,  my opinion is that when the PGA Tour came out last year announcing their revamped 2023 schedule with all of their increased purse $$$ as a response to compete with LIV,  it was a ruse b/c they really didn't have all of that extra cash on hand to pay out everything they planned in 2023.   They probably spent all winter up until recent with hat in hand to all of their sponsors and trying to get new sponsors.  

 

I know that Phil has said that the PGA Tour has a ton of cash,  but maybe it's not as liquid as it should be meaning that there's a lot of PGA Tour execs (and probably way too many) that live the high life.

 

Anyway it's mid 2023 and there's now a lot of more purse $$$ that needs to be paid out for their upcoming events and they don't have it.   I think this sudden merger was a bailout

 

Look at the tax forms and tell me the percentage of executive pay as a percentage of total expenses. Yes they are compensated well, but even if you lowered their compensation it wouldn't matter.

 

Being a 501 3(6) there financials are made public.

 

 

[aus10KC]

We're also now hearing rumors about players going to LIV with Jon Rahm being the biggest name. 

 

Professional golf has just gotten to be ridiculous, I can imagine it turns a lot of people off.

[betarhoalphadelta]

On 6/12/2023 at 3:49 PM, bladehunter said:

Phil’s team copied its logo - exactly ? 
 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/liv-golf-phil-mickelson-sued-2023/amp 

 

Yeah, Phil / the HyFlyers are going to lose that one, and lose it BADLY. It's bad enough that they may roll over and redesign without even going to court, on advice of counsel, because they can't win it. 

 

Considering it's an apparel company (incl. hats) and Phil's on TV (or at least the CW) wearing a hat with the logo, the company can clearly show a substantial likelihood of confusion in the market. And being a skate / lifestyle brand, I'm not sure they'll allege this, but I think they would be able to show brand damage from being associated with a 52-year-old pro golfer. It's not exactly the image they're presenting of their own brand. 

 

And for context, I argued that LIV Golf was in basically zero danger from the Miami LIV nightclub, because there's no substantial likelihood of confusion in their marks. 

[Motoboss]

5 hours ago, aus10KC said:

We're also now hearing rumors about players going to LIV with Jon Rahm being the biggest name. 

 

Professional golf has just gotten to be ridiculous, I can imagine it turns a lot of people off.

Yeah, I head that in his press conference when he stated he loved the PGA as it has given him and his family generational security and he wakes up every morning with a smile on his face because of a job he loves.

 

Yep, sounded like him begging to go to liv…………pffffffffffffttttttttt

[bladehunter]

2 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Yeah, Phil / the HyFlyers are going to lose that one, and lose it BADLY. It's bad enough that they may roll over and redesign without even going to court, on advice of counsel, because they can't win it. 

 

Considering it's an apparel company (incl. hats) and Phil's on TV (or at least the CW) wearing a hat with the logo, the company can clearly show a substantial likelihood of confusion in the market. And being a skate / lifestyle brand, I'm not sure they'll allege this, but I think they would be able to show brand damage from being associated with a 52-year-old pro golfer. It's not exactly the image they're presenting of their own brand. 

 

And for context, I argued that LIV Golf was in basically zero danger from the Miami LIV nightclub, because there's no substantial likelihood of confusion in their marks. 

Yep.  Seeing old people with your logo on isn’t a good thing for a skate company.  😂.  I’d argue Phil is doing it on purpose because today he was wearing jordan 1 low shoes at the open.  Further showing that he’s trying to be 15 again.  

[MaineMariner]

6 hours ago, aus10KC said:

We're also now hearing rumors about players going to LIV with Jon Rahm being the biggest name. 

 

Professional golf has just gotten to be ridiculous, I can imagine it turns a lot of people off.

 

Those "rumors" are coming from the LIV botnet on Twitter. Those blue checkmark'd, largely anonymous accounts that post in near-lockstep with whatever is the latest LIV talking points. I think LIV is pumping these rumors as a way to save face - the PGA Tour panicked when it heard Rahm was defecting, so it caved to the mighty LIV!

 

Meanwhile...

 

https://twitter.com/Daniel_Rapaport/status/1669070236342161408?t=0uDBhqZ-95wcjCdxXk_h_Q&s=19

[dcleftie]

Why would LIV players come back to the PGA tour. After all didn't they tell us it was so they could play less golf and spend more time with their families? Also, if the LIV format was so great - I haven't heard many of them pleaading for it to continue and worrying about being unable to play in its wonderful format going forward.

[Golferpaul]

6 hours ago, aus10KC said:

Professional golf has just gotten to be ridiculous, I can imagine it turns a lot of people off.

Or on.  My observation is that LIV attracts a younger group.  Kinda like Top Golf.

[MtlJeff]

1 hour ago, dcleftie said:

Why would LIV players come back to the PGA tour. After all didn't they tell us it was so they could play less golf and spend more time with their families? Also, if the LIV format was so great - I haven't heard many of them pleaading for it to continue and worrying about being unable to play in its wonderful format going forward.

 

I believe they also said they wanted to "grow the game"....don't forget that. Remember when everyone made fun of them for that?

 

Ahhhhh wait a sec

 

https://www.cbssports.com/golf/news/jay-monahan-defends-pga-tour-liv-golf-merger-as-commish-touts-effort-to-grow-and-expand-this-great-game/

 

I'm going to go collect more stones we can all throw from our glass house