LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[Holy Moses]

1 hour ago, Mr.Cleeks said:

Did Phil just admit that LIV is a closed shop 🤣 

The PGA Tour would be in a better position because the only players that would leave are the ones nobody really is interested in at this point. Even after LIV took some of the best PGA Tour players, the Tour is stronger than ever. 

Edited July 14 by Holy Moses

[bscinstnct]

1 hour ago, Mr.Cleeks said:

Did Phil just admit that LIV is a closed shop 🤣 

 

The current LIV events are the “elevated events”?

 

🤣

 

 

[TiScape]

36 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

The PGA Tour would be in a better position because the only players that would leave are the ones nobody really is interested in at this point. Even after LIV took some of the best PGA Tour players, the Tour is stronger than ever. 

Here is a question sparked by ur post.

Does Rahm miss the PGAT more than fans miss seeing him on it?
As much as Bryson loves attention. I feel it’s very safe to say he misses the spotlight of the PGAT. 

Having seemingly endless funds is no doubt great for them. But I’m sure they don’t love playing tournaments on some of those sub-par tracks knowing almost nobody is watching/noticing. 

[Mr.Cleeks]

1 hour ago, TiScape said:

Here is a question sparked by ur post.

Does Rahm miss the PGAT more than fans miss seeing him on it?
As much as Bryson loves attention. I feel it’s very safe to say he misses the spotlight of the PGAT. 

Having seemingly endless funds is no doubt great for them. But I’m sure they don’t love playing tournaments on some of those sub-par tracks knowing almost nobody is watching/noticing. 

I think Bryson is the one guy who's benefited from LIV. Not only has his fanbase grown but I think it's safe to say he's a better golfer now then he was in 2022. 

[TiScape]

Just now, Mr.Cleeks said:

I think Bryson is the one guy who's benefited from LIV. Not only has his fanbase grown but I think it's safe to say he's a better golfer now than he was in 2022. 

 I’ve only see him play like 3/4 x year since he left. And yeah he’s done mostly really well. 
Still say he misses the attention of the premier PGAT events. Obvi we will never really know. 

[Holy Moses]

1 hour ago, TiScape said:

Here is a question sparked by ur post.

Does Rahm miss the PGAT more than fans miss seeing him on it?
As much as Bryson loves attention. I feel it’s very safe to say he misses the spotlight of the PGAT. 

Having seemingly endless funds is no doubt great for them. But I’m sure they don’t love playing tournaments on some of those sub-par tracks knowing almost nobody is watching/noticing. 

Nobody is watching on any LIV track

[bscinstnct]

2 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

The PGA Tour would be in a better position because the only players that would leave are the ones nobody really is interested in at this point. Even after LIV took some of the best PGA Tour players, the Tour is stronger than ever. 

 

Exactly, if LIV wants to control the talent at the bottom of the pipeline 

 

they need to control the talent at the top funnel

 

They need a KFT and a real process for players to play up and/or churn out.  
 

They need to replicate the entire pga tour system 

 

That could force the pga tours hand. 
 

But it would create a ton of backlash to put the pga tour out of business

 

Best to make a deal, I think the best compromise is to let PIF/Aramco have 3-4 high profile events where all the best players tee it up. 
 

And PIF comprises by letting LIV die out in its present form. 

[dcmidnight]

27 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

They need a KFT and a real process for players to play up and/or churn out.  
 

They need to replicate the entire pga tour system 

 

NLU brought this up a long time ago when they wondered if LIV even had a reasonable off ramp to any sort of success at this point.

 

But their question was - why didn't they go to the European Tour / LET at first and just buy it all...or whatever that looks like. Aramco/SA are (at least a little more) widely accepted in Europe as sponsors of F1, soccer etc. Why not spend your billions there vs dumping 9 figure deals on PGA players people may or may not watch. You would have bought yourself not only the players and the press but the pipeline as well.

[Mr.Cleeks]

4 hours ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Here's a hypothetical for Phil. What if Phil didn't gamble away his fortune and get into financial trouble, call his new owners scary #!*! and flush his legacy down the toilet? Would he still own his G4, be playing on the pga tour and/or champions tour and still have all that endorsement money flowing in? Something to think about Phil. 

I still think he would've gone to LIV. I remember hearing all the way back in late 2019/early-2020 that Phil was interested in this concept and he actually played with Andrew Gardiner in a pro-am (Andy created the PGL concept that LIV was modeled after). 

[Holy Moses]

23 minutes ago, Mr.Cleeks said:

I still think he would've gone to LIV. I remember hearing all the way back in late 2019/early-2020 that Phil was interested in this concept and he actually played with Andrew Gardiner in a pro-am (Andy created the PGL concept that LIV was modeled after). 

Phil gambled away his money and tried to rebound by thinking the PGA Tour was sitting on billions of unaccounted for naming rights that he could use as leverage with LIV. It worked, but Phil doesn’t really want to be on LIV. He’d rather be playing on big PGA Tour events and being Johnny Miller’s replacement. 

[WesternRacing]

Interesting reading Sepp Blatter’s comments this week about the negative influence of Saudi money on futbol (that’s soccer to us ‘Mericans).

[NV825]

2 hours ago, Mr.Cleeks said:

I think Bryson is the one guy who's benefited from LIV. Not only has his fanbase grown but I think it's safe to say he's a better golfer now then he was in 2022. 

 

I think his realization that purposely turning himself obese wasn't the best way to improve his performance caused him to improve. 

[CDM]

5 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

The PGA Tour would be in a better position because the only players that would leave are the ones nobody really is interested in at this point. Even after LIV took some of the best PGA Tour players, the Tour is stronger than ever. 

 

I agree on the players leaving but as tour is stronger than ever. not 100% sure on that. Doing somewhat better this year vs last but overall still down from years prior.   *Maybe people are getting over COVID golf boom...

 

Some events have great field, strength and matchup.    Then they have 20%-25% of the events that are "foder" / "Fill in' which I think they should drop IMHO but I have thought that for a long long time. 15 years easy.

 

If PGAT dropped to 30 events a year plus the majors it would be some great fields.  $$$$ Have co sponsors per se, that way you have the same sponsors but help offset the ROR for the sponsors. 

 

Keep players on the same required events they have to play with less events you would make the fields stronger each time. At MIN you would have the best of best if all signed up for the same events for the 4 majors, Players and 14 events. So pretty much every 2.5 weeks you have the best going head to head. 

 

Just my thoughts but IMHO they would be in as very strong posistion doing that. The best playing each other more 2.5 weeks roughy on TV would help  draw the viewers. 

[CDM]

4 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

The current LIV events are the “elevated events”?

 

🤣

 

 

 

Money wise only 😂

[CDM]

4 hours ago, TiScape said:

Here is a question sparked by ur post.

Does Rahm miss the PGAT more than fans miss seeing him on it?
As much as Bryson loves attention. I feel it’s very safe to say he misses the spotlight of the PGAT. 

Having seemingly endless funds is no doubt great for them. But I’m sure they don’t love playing tournaments on some of those sub-par tracks knowing almost nobody is watching/noticing. 

 

I think he does miss it  but as he has stated I also think he is happier now then on the PGAT. 

 

I think the issue and we are seeing it is the "control" the PGAT was enforcing on players, specific in media. 

 

Bryson is able to be him so to speak. Bryson is fully on record what he is doing he has always wanted to but he could not do what he wanted as to media rights in the contract with the PGAT. Well it was not allowed unless you paid them when he was on the PGAT.  

 

*I know the PGAT has made changes on this but not 100% on what they are letting go of?  I know Tiger was first and set the tone on that years back with Tim F.   Tiger got the first changes done, but was not until the fracture it changed again. 

[CDM]

2 hours ago, dcmidnight said:

 

NLU brought this up a long time ago when they wondered if LIV even had a reasonable off ramp to any sort of success at this point.

 

But their question was - why didn't they go to the European Tour / LET at first and just buy it all...or whatever that looks like. Aramco/SA are (at least a little more) widely accepted in Europe as sponsors of F1, soccer etc. Why not spend your billions there vs dumping 9 figure deals on PGA players people may or may not watch. You would have bought yourself not only the players and the press but the pipeline as well.

 

PIF was trying to work a deal with the Euro Tour but the PGAT has some ownership and increased it per the contracts in palce to blocked that  If look at the structure the PGAT had first right if they passed the Euro Tour could sell out.

 

Funney the PGAT report on putting extra money into the Euro Tour noted it was a waste, only the revenue from the Ryder Cup was worth anything at all and looses money if not for the Ryder Cup revenue. 

 

I found it interesting when Scott P. left the he lead at the Euro tour he went gasoline / matches on the way out.  He had some "choice" words about Jay M. 

 

Honestly the PGAT should have let them buy the Euro Tour IMHO as it is hurting pretty bad as everyone knows and that still is great area for golf and has "decent" fan base.  Getting the guys LIV did would have maybe helped it and still not hurt the PGAT at all. 

[CDM]

On 7/14/2025 at 2:02 PM, CDM said:

 

I agree on the players leaving but as tour is stronger than ever. not 100% sure on that. Doing somewhat better this year vs last but overall still down from years prior.   *Maybe people are getting over COVID golf boom...

 

Some events have great field, strength and matchup.    Then they have 20%-25% of the events that are "foder" / "Fill in' which I think they should drop IMHO but I have thought that for a long long time. 15 years easy.

 

If PGAT dropped to 30 events a year plus the majors it would be some great fields.  $$$$ Have co sponsors per se, that way you have the same sponsors but help offset the ROR for the sponsors. 

 

Keep players on the same required events they have to play with less events you would make the fields stronger each time. At MIN you would have the best of best if all signed up for the same events for the 4 majors, Players and 14 events. So pretty much every 2.5 weeks you have the best going head to head. 

 

Just my thoughts but IMHO they would be in as very strong posistion doing that. The best playing each other more 2.5 weeks roughy on TV would help  draw the viewers. 

 

@Titleist99 .... I know its a dream 🤣

 

I dont watch much golf now, besides majors.  Toooo many things like playing or life is in the way.

 

Older but when I did watch, I always felt there was to many events that had not relevance. Some good historic events but it still feels that way.

 

BUIT if they have a TV contract that says we will have an event pretty much every weekend they have to do it.....

Edited July 16 by CDM

[Danielson]

7 hours ago, Mr.Cleeks said:

Fan engagement is completely down the drain. Only have 192 subscribers on the cleeks YT channel and the IG page is dead; only posting about 5x during tournament weeks and struggling to even get 200 engagements on a post. Blandy needs start doing breaking 50s

 

Is there a legitimate concern that Blandy runs off to join Good Good? 

[johnseg]

4 hours ago, dcmidnight said:

 

NLU brought this up a long time ago when they wondered if LIV even had a reasonable off ramp to any sort of success at this point.

 

But their question was - why didn't they go to the European Tour / LET at first and just buy it all...or whatever that looks like. Aramco/SA are (at least a little more) widely accepted in Europe as sponsors of F1, soccer etc. Why not spend your billions there vs dumping 9 figure deals on PGA players people may or may not watch. You would have bought yourself not only the players and the press but the pipeline as well.

It is my belief that their initial model was to have a bunch of high-profile events (maybe 😎 that all of the PGA Tour's top talent would be committed to 100%. The Tour pushed back and said we aren't giving you out guys for 8 weeks during our season when there are other tournaments going on. If you try to get player to commit, we will suspend them. Then LIV regrouped and changed the model. Doubled the amount of events went crazy signing players etc. Remember the Sergio/Sharkie Baby conversation when Sergio told him that they were going to suspend players and Norman told him they can't and won't.

 

The LIV we have isn't the LIV they wanted, at least in my opinion.

[Holy Moses]

3 hours ago, WesternRacing said:

Interesting reading Sepp Blatter’s comments this week about the negative influence of Saudi money on futbol (that’s soccer to us ‘Mericans).

Sepp Blatter has no room to talk on morality or doing the right thing or big money influencing anyone 

[WesternRacing]

2 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

Sepp Blatter has no room to talk on morality or doing the right thing or big money influencing anyone 

 

Agreed, yet his comments were spot on and true.

[bcjim]

7 hours ago, CDM said:

 

@Titleist99 .... I know its a dream 🤣

 

I dont want much golf now, besides majors.  Toooo many things like playing or life is in the way.

 

Older but when I did watch, I always felt there was to many events that had not relevance. Some good historic events but it still feels that way.

 

BUIT if they have a TV contract that says we will have an event pretty much every weekend they have to do it.....

I guess you're the last guy standing.  Where have cactus and bighitterllama gone? 

The argument that less golf is better is simply without merit. From a fan or business pov.

 

You are welcome to not watch any events you don't want to watch.  Fewer events will not mean anyone plays less.  They'll just play somewhere else.

[Mr.Cleeks]

9 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

Phil gambled away his money and tried to rebound by thinking the PGA Tour was sitting on billions of unaccounted for naming rights that he could use as leverage with LIV. It worked, but Phil doesn’t really want to be on LIV. He’d rather be playing on big PGA Tour events and being Johnny Miller’s replacement. 

I’ve heard Phil has been asset rich and cash poor for years. It’s not just gambling, the guy spends money like there’s no tomorrow. He apparently sold his gulf stream jet, a 2nd home in San Diego and even a plot of land he bought in Jupiter,FL just to stay afloat. 

[dcmidnight]

5 hours ago, Mr.Cleeks said:

I’ve heard Phil has been asset rich and cash poor for years. It’s not just gambling, the guy spends money like there’s no tomorrow. He apparently sold his gulf stream jet, a 2nd home in San Diego and even a plot of land he bought in Jupiter,FL just to stay afloat. 

 

I honestly cant imagine what kind of financial troubles he was having. May of 2021 the guy wins the PGA and is literally the talk of the golf world, arguably the most popular golfer on tour does what he did - he was absolutely soaring into retirement at that point. Then what, 6 months later he completely detonates the whole thing - his career, his legacy, his popularity - poof? I dont think a guy makes that kind of decision unless he really, really had to.

[Mr.Cleeks]

45 minutes ago, dcmidnight said:

 

I honestly cant imagine what kind of financial troubles he was having. May of 2021 the guy wins the PGA and is literally the talk of the golf world, arguably the most popular golfer on tour does what he did - he was absolutely soaring into retirement at that point. Then what, 6 months later he completely detonates the whole thing - his career, his legacy, his popularity - poof? I dont think a guy makes that kind of decision unless he really, really had to.

I still enjoy watching guys like Bryson, Rahm, and Hatton; it's been a lot of fun seeing those guys in the mix at majors this year. I've said this before but if LIV plays at an interesting venue like Chapultepec, at a reasonable time, I'll watch it.  I know the optics of the 2022 lawsuit weren't great but that was well within the rights of those players.

Putting the LIV stuff aside, I think Phil is an absolute nutjob. Every time I take a look at his X account, it's something crazy

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, dcmidnight said:

 

I honestly cant imagine what kind of financial troubles he was having. May of 2021 the guy wins the PGA and is literally the talk of the golf world, arguably the most popular golfer on tour does what he did - he was absolutely soaring into retirement at that point. Then what, 6 months later he completely detonates the whole thing - his career, his legacy, his popularity - poof? I dont think a guy makes that kind of decision unless he really, really had to.

 

We're all kind of going 'round in circles in this thread because there is almost never anything new regarding LIV but Phil just can't help himself stirring the pot --- he's got oodles of money now and landed on his spikes.

 

I got a laugh at the On The Range Coverage yesterday - Phil is going down the range glad handing and makes a comment to Harman about how much fun it is to come back having "won one" and gets to Paddy who says to Phil how nice it is to be there having won two, lol.  It was all in good fun, but loved Paddy heard Phil (people in Dingle probably did) and nailed him and Phil took it as well as he dished it out.

 

Fun aside, he was nothing but lucky in his cooperation with the SEC and having to cough up over $1m and little is said about his being lucky in dodging anything when being allegedly tied to a later money laundering matter involving nearly $3m.  It was interesting when Walters' book came out Phil took the road of a public statement that didn't deny anything and expressed regret and that's all well and good these days, but in typical Phil fashion he couldn't help but slip in blaming it on people who "enabled" him - nope, he's not taking full responsibility for his behavior.  All private and his family's problem but if you are going public with fessing up maybe fess up.  Oh well.

 

He's set, nobody can touch him and he's shown that there isn't anything that will make him reflective or feeling lucky about any of it, he's just going to keep shooting his mouth off and being a negative force.  

 

 

Edited July 15 by Hawkeye77

[Holy Moses]

1 hour ago, Mr.Cleeks said:

I still enjoy watching guys like Bryson, Rahm, and Hatton; it's been a lot of fun seeing those guys in the mix at majors this year. I've said this before but if LIV plays at an interesting venue like Chapultepec, at a reasonable time, I'll watch it.  I know the optics of the 2022 lawsuit weren't great but that was well within the rights of those players.

Putting the LIV stuff aside, I think Phil is an absolute nutjob. Every time I take a look at his X account, it's something crazy

He has to let everyone know the justification for him thinking he is the smartest guy in the room and the comments he made to Shipnuck that he can never undo

[Mr.Cleeks]

26 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

He has to let everyone know the justification for him thinking he is the smartest guy in the room and the comments he made to Shipnuck that he can never undo

I'm not saying Phil was right on everything, that'd be giving him too much credit.  But the comments in that interview did foreshadow a lot of the changes that have gone into effect on the tour:

• This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to reshape how the PGA Tour operates. 
• They use the top guys to make their own situation better, but the top guys don’t have a say. 
• Players are a minority on the all-powerful PGA Tour Policy Board, holding only four of the nine seats.

Looking at these one by one:

• The PGAT structure is way different then it was 3 years. Their were no signature events, every week on tour was the same. The tour made that change within months of LIV's formation.
• The top guys now have equity in the PGAT. Pretty self-explanatory
• Finally PGAT players are a majority on the policy board. 

If you get past his crazy rhetoric it's insane how the PGAT implemented a lot of what Phil was saying 3 years ago.

 

[EddieWouldGo]

20 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

 He’d rather be playing on big PGA Tour events and being Johnny Miller’s replacement. 

This is the silver lining of Phat Phil going to LIV, we don’t have to hear him on every broadcast telling us he’s the smartest man in the room. 

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, Mr.Cleeks said:

I'm not saying Phil was right on everything, that'd be giving him too much credit.  But the comments in that interview did foreshadow a lot of the changes that have gone into effect on the tour:

• This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to reshape how the PGA Tour operates. 
• They use the top guys to make their own situation better, but the top guys don’t have a say. 
• Players are a minority on the all-powerful PGA Tour Policy Board, holding only four of the nine seats.

Looking at these one by one:

• The PGAT structure is way different then it was 3 years. Their were no signature events, every week on tour was the same. The tour made that change within months of LIV's formation.
• The top guys now have equity in the PGAT. Pretty self-explanatory
• Finally PGAT players are a majority on the policy board. 

If you get past his crazy rhetoric it's insane how the PGAT implemented a lot of what Phil was saying 3 years ago.

 

 

This is hilarious. The only thing Phil did was try to bankrupt and destroy the PGAT.

 

*He didn't succeed at either. 

 

The PGAT has always had two tier events, be it invitational, elevated, signature, etc...

 

Tournament increases came from the $7B media rights deal and the added revenue from SSG.

 

The board consists of 6player Directors and 6 independent Directors. IMO that's not a good thing because players vote in their own best interest, not the tour's.

 

~Phil was right about nothing. Keep in mind that Phil was recruiting players for the Saudi Tour while still playing on the PGAT , shameful.   IMO