LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[Mr.Cleeks]

31 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Way better?😆 

11 is better than 64 when it’s OWGR.

Owgr doesn’t mean someone is playing better or have any weight when it comes to career accomplishments. Xander/Morikawa are ranked above Bryson. In no world have they played better then him this year. 

Edited July 29 by Mr.Cleeks

[PedronNiall]

8 hours ago, smashdn said:

I would contend that if this were the case and it involved neither the PIF/Saudis and Greg Norman, it would have went over swimmingly.  If PGAT had created an upper-echelon event with no cut where the best of the best played in other locales in the world it would have been well received.  I mean, the response was to create signature events and bolster the bottom placer's earnings, sort of like no cuts and guaranteed money.

 

5 hours ago, bcjim said:

But the golf has to mean something. They have to be playing a legitimate competition for something. Something besides the top monetary amount on offer.  Winning a liv tournament is winning nothing besides a pile of cash slightly bigger than the other guys pile of cash. There is no value beyond that in a liv win, or a "match" win, or a TGL win even.  Beating 5 or 6 other guys and a bunch of useless filler at JCB is not any accomplishment of note that will be remembered by anyone.

 

 

 

Aside from what Jim already replied, Smashed, you're pretty patently wrong about it likely being well received. The players besides Rory have no desire to travel all over the world; aside from The Open no more than a handful of Tour players leave the the Americas, and most of them aren't the big names unless there's a good appearance fee attached. The fans have little desire for it because the time differences mean it's awkward to catch live at "normal" hours and for some reason they won't tape delay or be smart and take advantage of almost 24 hours of light in certain regions during the summer to broadcast live in prime time. Since the fans won't be watching, the Tour and its sponsors have zero incentive to lay out money they'll never get anywhere near seeing a return on. 

 

How do all those issues plus no history to build on make for anything but a lark? 

[PedronNiall]

2 hours ago, TiScape said:

Only other movie I can remember turning off before it was even halfway over was ⬇️

*I refer to it simply as ‘The hotdog fingers movie’.

 

2 hours ago, bobfoster said:

Well, actually the worst was Lost In Translation. That movie with Bill Murray directed by Sofia Coppola. You totally got pilloried online if you did not profess to love it. Even though it bored the living bejesus out of everyone that watched it. But ETEWAAO was a close second. You are supposed to pretend you understand it. I asked a friend. She said "isn't that the one where a hot girl travels through time to kill people?". I said yeah, while the writers probably think it was way more profound, that pretty much sums it up. (Though honestly, much like @TiScape, I only watched half.)

 

Nekulturny...

 

 

[TiScape]

9 minutes ago, PedronNiall said:

 

 

Nekulturny...

 

 

That’s me and not the 1st time someone has called me that on the site! 😊

[grm24]

10 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

Outside of Valderrama and Doral, does LIV play on any course that you would take over any PGA Tour course? 

And according to what Bob Harig posted on si.com last week Doral is headed back to the PGA Tour in 2026.

[NosajNeelik]

7 hours ago, ws6 said:

Best sequel ever?  Godfather 2?

Empire strikes back is one but my all time fav sequel is Evil Dead 2

[jdl]

16 hours ago, smashdn said:

 

This sounds a bit like WWE.  Golfers just want to watch golf.  See the threads regarding the actual broadcasts.  Two of the most riviled aspects of a golf broadcast are the breaks from golf to hear from the CEO of whomever the sponsor is and the human interest pieces about a golfer's sister's battle with gluten intolerance and how it shaped him into the player he is today due to his hatred of bread.

 

 

 

But "golfers" is a tiny audience and pro golf needs to attract more than just those people. If "golfers just want to watch golf" was enough then LIV would be doing much better.

 

The PGA Tour broadcasts definitely could use some of work to get better of course. Like please, please kill off "playing through"!

 

16 hours ago, smashdn said:

 

I would contend that if this were the case and it involved neither the PIF/Saudis and Greg Norman, it would have went over swimmingly.  If PGAT had created an upper-echelon event with no cut where the best of the best played in other locales in the world it would have been well received.  I mean, the response was to create signature events and bolster the bottom placer's earnings, sort of like no cuts and guaranteed money. 

 

 

They had those, they were called the WGC. Doesn't seem like "well received" is the term I'd use for those....though Covid kind of derailed the "other locales" part but as has been mentioned many times, most the guys are US based and don't want to be travelling all over the place.

Edited July 29 by jdl

[smashdn]

13 hours ago, bcjim said:

But the golf has to mean something. They have to be playing a legitimate competition for something.  

 

No, it doesn't.  See the proliferation of youtube golf channels.  Apparently a huge subset of people viewing golf don't care if much of anything is on the line at all.  Bryan Bros is a good example.  They folded the story of their course and them trying to qualify for and play in different tournaments along with sometimes just the two of them playing against one another.  It is fairly successful.  That is just one that I watch occasionally.  I am sure there are others that are similar.  I don't know what all Fat Perez and Rick Sheils do on their channels.  I see BDC doing stuff as it will show as recommended.  Saw the Hyflers/Phil stuff that is more swing related that is pretty fair.  

 

13 hours ago, bcjim said:

There is no value beyond that in a liv win, or a "match" win, or a TGL win even.  Beating 5 or 6 other guys and a bunch of useless filler at JCB is not any accomplishment of note that will be remembered by anyone.

 

Outside of the a number of majors or number of wins, do people even remember.  Without looking it up, who won the 2024 ATT Pebble Beach Pro-Am?  Who can rattle that off?

 

Also, don't forget, LIV is not functioning as it was first intended.  It was supposed to be fluid from year to year as to who qualified.  Promotions and relegation or qualification.  The contracts to the players they have currently were required because of the risk the players took on and now that they cannot go back to either tour and also seems they aren't much closer to getting OWGR points.

 

^I am not excusing the fact that all of that has happened.  It happened due to selling a bad bill of goods.  And I know the old saying about my aunt being by uncle instead, but if it were functioning as first conceived, would the events be meaningless if all the top 35-45 players in the world were playing the same format and there was pro/rel/qualification for the year?  There wouldn't be the "useless filler" save for any guy who was just having a terrible year after qualifying.  There are guys with majors exemptions who currently don't have games worthy of being in the fields, especially The Masters with their exemption/invitation rules.

[idrive]

Cherry picked comments from a recent article: 

 

Joaquin Niemann’s win at LIV Golf UK was his fifth of the season and has just about settled the race for the individual title.

 

The result leaves him well clear of Jon Rahm and Bryson DeChambeau. The pair are now his only remaining challengers, with Niemann looking to cap off a remarkable year on LIV Golf.

 

 Joaquin is one of the worst case scenarios to win on LIV. No one seems to really care. He’s won five times on LIV now this year and hasn’t made any noise in a major championship.

 

He changed swing coaches and his caddie this past week. What does it say that he’s not satisfied with the state of things when he has five wins on LIV this year? I think that’s pretty indicative of him realising the lack of strength to the field. And even Jon Rahm making similar comments at the US Open and being annoyed about the top 10 streak on LIV, saying explicitly if these fields were bigger and deeper, I wouldn’t have a top 10 streak going. I think these guys know, and Joaquin probably had a bit of a wake-up call this year at the major championships, realizing his game isn’t probably where he thinks that it is.

 

Summed up quite nicely IMO.

 

11 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

They just need guys. I doubt BD Rahm BK Hatton or any of their better players are going to leave so they just need to fill the ranks.
 

Doesn’t seem like they have any concern or notions that they are going to get great rating anytime soon if ever.

 

But given they signed up a new venue and I read, they are increasing the purses by 5 million for each event, it seems they are content to keep staging these events long-term

 

I wonder when, if ever, that liv golf when realize that a couple of hundred people (if that) care in any way about these teams.

Throwing money at a losing concept will not fix it. Seems as though the "additional cash flowing back into its teams" is to keep most of them from being upside down.

 

 

 

 

 

[smashdn]

8 hours ago, PedronNiall said:

Aside from what Jim already replied, Smashed, you're pretty patently wrong about it likely being well received by US golf fans. The players besides Rory have no desire to travel all over the world; aside from The Open no more than a handful of PGA Tour players leave the the Americas, and most of them aren't the big names unless there's a good appearance fee attached. The US based fans have little desire for it because the time differences mean it's awkward to catch live at "normal" hours and for some reason they won't tape delay or be smart and take advantage of almost 24 hours of light in certain regions during the summer to broadcast live in The US in prime time. Since the US fans won't be watching, the US based PGA Tour and its sponsors have zero incentive to lay out money they'll never get anywhere near seeing a return on. 

 

How do all those issues plus no history to build on make for anything but a lark? 

 

I added some stuff to what your wrote.  I get that the US is where the bulk of golf fans and the bulk of the money is to be made by both the golfers and the sponsors, but golf is a global game.  Certain parts of the world had basically been blocked out of having top level professional golf near them.

 

Maybe the answer is the PGA Tour having more global reach?  They killed off the WGC events.  LIV sort of attempted to fill that vacuum.  

 

Can we agree that there is some appetite in some parts of the world for professional golf where the PGA Tour has siphoned the global talent?

[smashdn]

34 minutes ago, jdl said:

...but as has been mentioned many times, most the guys are US based and don't want to be travelling all over the place.

 

Money talks though.  Structure it so it is at most 50 guys and they are not paying anything out of pocket to get themselves there.  Pay the caddies way as well.  Is that not pretty much would liv did, bribe err pay via contract the best players who would agree to come play?  LIV got stuck with some bottom of barrel guys though.

 

"Hey, you 50 guys have qualified to play in the Rolex Big Shiny Watch Championship at North Berwick.  It is three weeks before The Open.  Chartered flight leaves at 8:00 pm from whatever town airport that that particular PGAT event would be from.  Serving steak or fish.  Full bar.  Congrats on the good play."

 

You would create an "all-star" league (the elevated events).  Downside is how you soothe the Wyndham folks when the best are further incentivized to skip the Greater Greensboro Open's on the schedule.  This past week's 3M Open wasn't exactly dripping with star power though.

[betarhoalphadelta]

42 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

No, it doesn't.  See the proliferation of youtube golf channels.  Apparently a huge subset of people viewing golf don't care if much of anything is on the line at all.  Bryan Bros is a good example.  They folded the story of their course and them trying to qualify for and play in different tournaments along with sometimes just the two of them playing against one another.  It is fairly successful.  That is just one that I watch occasionally.  I am sure there are others that are similar.  I don't know what all Fat Perez and Rick Sheils do on their channels.  I see BDC doing stuff as it will show as recommended.  Saw the Hyflers/Phil stuff that is more swing related that is pretty fair.  

 

 

YT golf is a different breed. It's shorter format, and built to be entertaining. You're there as much for the personalities as the "golf shots". 

 

Comparing it to high-level professional tournament golf is apples and oranges. 

 

37 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

Can we agree that there is some appetite in some parts of the world for professional golf where the PGA Tour has siphoned the global talent?

 

Of course.

 

But the ROW has roughly the same number of golfers, combined, as North America. Spread across more than a dozen of time zones. In countries which roundly don't have the same amount of disposable income as North Americans. Oh, and how many different languages are spoken across the range?

 

So it's a disparate audience geographically, with less income to justify ads, spread across a bunch of countries speaking different languages, some of which are countries sponsors may not see value advertising. 

 

Maybe it's "unfair", but logistics and economics are the reason that the PGAT is the dominant tour. The rest of the world may have an appetite for professional golf, but the economic value of the 2025 Greater Greensboro Open to sponsors is larger than that of the 2025 Shanghai Shootout. 

[WesternRacing]

52 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

No, it doesn't.  See the proliferation of youtube golf channels.

 

Making no money.  YT channels are great for fans with ADD to spend time scrolling through all day, but they make diddly squat compared to even a minor professional league like the PGA Tour.  If you want to attract a broad, highly profitable fan base that stays connected through dozens of ad impressions, you need something compelling.  LIV has nothing compelling, which is the biggest reason that they have no fans and minimal sponsors.

[Titleist99]

10 hours ago, Mr.Cleeks said:

Owgr doesn’t mean someone is playing better or have any weight when it comes to career accomplishments. Xander/Morikawa are ranked above Bryson. In no world have they played better then him this year. 

 

And that's why the OWGR is based on a rolling two-year period.

[bcjim]

10 hours ago, Mr.Cleeks said:

Owgr doesn’t mean someone is playing better or have any weight when it comes to career accomplishments. Xander/Morikawa are ranked above Bryson. In no world have they played better then him this year. 

In the last 14 mos, Xander has won 2 majors.  

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, jdl said:

But "golfers" is a tiny audience and pro golf needs to attract more than just those people. If "golfers just want to watch golf" was enough then LIV would be doing much better.

 

The PGA Tour broadcasts definitely could use some of work to get better of course. Like please, please kill off "playing through"!

 

If golfers wanted to watch personalities, LIV would be doing much better. IMO

 

Playing through was to appease the advertisers and the demand for more golf, even though it could be re-tweaked a little.🤣

[Titleist99]

45 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

YT golf is a different breed. It's shorter format, and built to be entertaining. You're there as much for the personalities as the "golf shots". 

 

Comparing it to high-level professional tournament golf is apples and oranges. 

 

And that's why I find people looking for personality in a Professional golfer on the PGAT head scratching.

Edited July 29 by Titleist99

[bcjim]

1 hour ago, smashdn said:

 

No, it doesn't.  See the proliferation of youtube golf channels.  Apparently a huge subset of people viewing golf don't care if much of anything is on the line at all.  Bryan Bros is a good example.  They folded the story of their course and them trying to qualify for and play in different tournaments along with sometimes just the two of them playing against one another.  It is fairly successful.  That is just one that I watch occasionally.  I am sure there are others that are similar.  I don't know what all Fat Perez and Rick Sheils do on their channels.  I see BDC doing stuff as it will show as recommended.  Saw the Hyflers/Phil stuff that is more swing related that is pretty fair.  

 

 

Outside of the a number of majors or number of wins, do people even remember.  Without looking it up, who won the 2024 ATT Pebble Beach Pro-Am?  Who can rattle that off?

 

Also, don't forget, LIV is not functioning as it was first intended.  It was supposed to be fluid from year to year as to who qualified.  Promotions and relegation or qualification.  The contracts to the players they have currently were required because of the risk the players took on and now that they cannot go back to either tour and also seems they aren't much closer to getting OWGR points.

 

^I am not excusing the fact that all of that has happened.  It happened due to selling a bad bill of goods.  And I know the old saying about my aunt being by uncle instead, but if it were functioning as first conceived, would the events be meaningless if all the top 35-45 players in the world were playing the same format and there was pro/rel/qualification for the year?  There wouldn't be the "useless filler" save for any guy who was just having a terrible year after qualifying.  There are guys with majors exemptions who currently don't have games worthy of being in the fields, especially The Masters with their exemption/invitation rules.

As noted by others YT golf is not comparable to tournament golf.  If it were, fat perez or the Bryans would have a tv show on from 3-6 on Sunday. How would that do,  lol?

 

And i may not be able to cite the winner of tournament X without looking it up,  but that player is forever a PGATour winner.

[Holy Moses]

 

[Holy Moses]

“LIV’s teams are set up to operate independently, signing their own commercial deals and players. The league owns a majority (75%) of the teams, while franchise captains own the remaining 25%. 

 

LIV is expected to bring on more players this offseason, but the large signing bonuses of 2022 and 2023 are thought to be a thing of the past. Now, the financial onus is expected to be more on the teams to bring players aboard.“

Edited July 29 by Holy Moses

[CDM]

15 hours ago, Shilgy said:

What rule do you plan to invoke for pace of play? 

 

The PGAT has Rule 6-7 that addresses slow play, out of position, etc.  Which they have the right to assert penalties but I can not recall it ever being enforce or have seen.

 

First offense:  One Stroke Penalty

Second offense:  Two-Stroke Penalty 

Subsquent offenses:  Disqualification

 

*Assume the offenses are per event? I dont think a cmnulative? 

[dcmidnight]

Haven't people already said the "increased purse" thing is mostly bunk - the money is going to the team payouts but the teams are also footing more of their expenses?

[TiScape]

2 hours ago, idrive said:

Cherry picked comments from a recent article: 

 

Joaquin Niemann’s win at LIV Golf UK was his fifth of the season and has just about settled the race for the individual title.

 

The result leaves him well clear of Jon Rahm and Bryson DeChambeau. The pair are now his only remaining challengers, with Niemann looking to cap off a remarkable year on LIV Golf.

 

 Joaquin is one of the worst case scenarios to win on LIV. No one seems to really care. He’s won five times on LIV now this year and hasn’t made any noise in a major championship.

 

He changed swing coaches and his caddie this past week. What does it say that he’s not satisfied with the state of things when he has five wins on LIV this year? I think that’s pretty indicative of him realising the lack of strength to the field. And even Jon Rahm making similar comments at the US Open and being annoyed about the top 10 streak on LIV, saying explicitly if these fields were bigger and deeper, I wouldn’t have a top 10 streak going. I think these guys know, and Joaquin probably had a bit of a wake-up call this year at the major championships, realizing his game isn’t probably where he thinks that it is.

 

Summed up quite nicely IMO.

 

 

 

 

 

I don’t trust any article that refers to him as Joaquin and not Joaqo. 

[CDM]

15 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

I think I’m generally aligned with your thoughts here, but I’ll add three things:

-The 3M is a very weak event on the PGA Tour, so I wouldn’t draw many conclusions from it.

-The PGA Tour’s weakest events still draw 5x what LIV draws in the US, even when both are on broadcast TV.

-LIV plays on very bland courses. Outside of Valderrama and Doral, does LIV play on any course that you would take over any PGA Tour course? 

 

This is what I love about golf, how each see courses 

 

Doral is not one I would have listed LOL

 

Played many top courses and number have hosted PGAT events/ Majors and IMHO most courses the PGAT plays are typically the ones I walk off with really good/great courses thought but not  that feeling  "man I have to play that again...!" 

 

Not a knock on the courses as a number of them are good but its obvious as you noted, they need venues that can hold a lot of fans.  

*Typing this Phoenix.......was younger / pumped to play... that is pretty high on my list of overated courses. 🤣

 

 When younger I wanted to play all the coures the pros play,  Having done number of them, the one thing that stands out is most of those courses fade faster, dont leave a true lasting memory, other then "yea I played it".   

 

*Happen this year as did a flash in the pan trip in March, solely to play Tara Iti.   Its a great setting and great course.  The images make the design look incredible but played 2 others next to it the same week.  I can say Tara iti was not the best of the 3 IMHO.  Again great course and splitting hairs.  Doak did his typical fantastic great job and the venue is amazing but course only we walked away thinking....hmmm that the closet Doak course we have played that felt like a Coore Crenshaw course.  

[smashdn]

2 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

Comparing it to high-level professional tournament golf is apples and oranges. 

 

I would say that largely depends upon why you are watching golf in the first place.  My father-in-law watches more broadcast golf than I do.  To my knowledge he has never picked up a club and certainly is not a "golfer."  He watches it on Sunday afternoon to put him to sleep.

 

I love golf to the point I can watch just about anything golf related and it scratch my golf itch.  I read academic articles on fungicide effectiveness at times.  I had two articles on creating tree management plans brought up on the comp and was also researching Ellis Maples restoration specialists if they existed.

[betarhoalphadelta]

6 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

I would say that largely depends upon why you are watching golf in the first place.

 

 

And I'll still stand by them being apples and oranges.

 

They're both entertainment products, but high level professional tournament golf is largely built around the competition being the entertainment. That's why @Titleist99 replied with his "head-scratching" remark about wanting PGAT players to have personality. I think in many cases them having personality is a plus, but it's completely unnecessary as far as the value of the tournament to entertain. It's the competition and the high level of play that is mostly drawing in viewers.

 

The opposite is true with most YT golf. I don't watch much of it, but one thing that I always enjoyed was Random Golf Club when they'd do their "Breaking" series. Take four golfers of varying abilities on a high-level (usually a major) track and each of them sets up their own target score they want to achieve. It's entertaining because it's a polished, shorter-form (even if a whole breaking series might be 3x 45 min episodes), curated product, narrated by EAL, etc. The level of play is largely immaterial. 

 

Now, I get it, different people watch the PGAT for different reasons. Your dad, and my dog, like to nap to golf. But I'd say the vast majority of the golfers are watching it for its value as a sporting competition, and they derive their entertainment from the quality and stakes of the competition. And the vast majority of the golfers watching YouTube are NOT watching it for its value as a sporting competition, they're watching it for the entertainment and the quality of play is much less important--which is good, because it's FAR lower. 

 

What makes a PGAT golf broadcast successful and what makes a YT golf video successful are just completely different things. The only thing connecting them is the four letter word that brings us all together here at WRX. 

[smashdn]

2 hours ago, WesternRacing said:

 

Making no money.  YT channels are great for fans with ADD to spend time scrolling through all day, but they make diddly squat compared to even a minor professional league like the PGA Tour.  If you want to attract a broad, highly profitable fan base that stays connected through dozens of ad impressions, you need something compelling.  

Are we talking about golf business and entertainment or what is good for Golf?

 

They aren't necessarily exclusive but are also not intrinsically linked either.

 

Taking highest level professional golfers to places like Thailand and back to Australia and South Africa = Good for Golf but not necessarily good for golf business nor good or even easy for the professional golfer.

2 hours ago, WesternRacing said:

LIV has nothing compelling, which is the biggest reason that they have no fans and minimal sponsors.

Taking highest level professional golfers to places like Thailand and back to Australia and South Africa = Good for Golf

 

Again, LIV currently does not.  But if LIV were what is was designed to be, 50ish of the best players in the world (not just the ones who they could sign to gigantic contracts) playing globally, it would be compelling.  It would be major-light and condensed.

 

I disagree that lack of compelling golf is the biggest reason there are few fans and sponsors.  LIV is trying to plow the same ground (US) where the PGA has already turned the dirt so to speak.  They would get more on-site fans by going to these pro golf starved places but in doing that they run into broadcast timing issues.  That is one issue.  Secondly, LIV is painted as terrorist supporting org in the US.  That isn't going to get US sponsors lining up.  Same deal with courses willing to host.  There are a lot of reasons why it is not working well.  Some very self-inflicted, others not so much.  Look objectively at what they are up to and what the plan was, without regard for which specific golfers are playing now and where the support money comes from, and it is not an idea without merit.  It just would have obstacles inherent that it would need to deal with, outside of the Saudi issues and the PGAT and DPWT fighting back.  Which is why I said if the PGAT were to have spearheaded it, it would be much better than it is currently.  I don't think the WGC events were ever really supported well enough and like has been mentioned, COVID killed those off finally.

 

Clearly you can overcome a lot with money.  LIV is proving that by hanging in there this long.  You remove some of the pushback with different genesis I feel like it would be in a much better place.  Even just the TV aspect of it.  It could be primetime, live golf on Golf Channel.

[ThinkingPlus]

5 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

And I'll still stand by them being apples and oranges.

 

They're both entertainment products, but high level professional tournament golf is largely built around the competition being the entertainment. That's why @Titleist99 replied with his "head-scratching" remark about wanting PGAT players to have personality. I think in many cases them having personality is a plus, but it's completely unnecessary as far as the value of the tournament to entertain. It's the competition and the high level of play that is mostly drawing in viewers.

 

The opposite is true with most YT golf. I don't watch much of it, but one thing that I always enjoyed was Random Golf Club when they'd do their "Breaking" series. Take four golfers of varying abilities on a high-level (usually a major) track and each of them sets up their own target score they want to achieve. It's entertaining because it's a polished, shorter-form (even if a whole breaking series might be 3x 45 min episodes), curated product, narrated by EAL, etc. The level of play is largely immaterial. 

 

Now, I get it, different people watch the PGAT for different reasons. Your dad, and my dog, like to nap to golf. But I'd say the vast majority of the golfers are watching it for its value as a sporting competition, and they derive their entertainment from the quality and stakes of the competition. And the vast majority of the golfers watching YouTube are NOT watching it for its value as a sporting competition, they're watching it for the entertainment and the quality of play is much less important--which is good, because it's FAR lower. 

 

What makes a PGAT golf broadcast successful and what makes a YT golf video successful are just completely different things. The only thing connecting them is the four letter word that brings us all together here at WRX. 

I am still amazed that folks watch non-instructional or non-equipment golf content on YouTube.

[mosesgolf]

4 hours ago, smashdn said:

 

No, it doesn't.  See the proliferation of youtube golf channels.  Apparently a huge subset of people viewing golf don't care if much of anything is on the line at all.  Bryan Bros is a good example.  They folded the story of their course and them trying to qualify for and play in different tournaments along with sometimes just the two of them playing against one another.  It is fairly successful.  That is just one that I watch occasionally.  I am sure there are others that are similar.  I don't know what all Fat Perez and Rick Sheils do on their channels.  I see BDC doing stuff as it will show as recommended.  Saw the Hyflers/Phil stuff that is more swing related that is pretty fair.  

 

 

Outside of the a number of majors or number of wins, do people even remember.  Without looking it up, who won the 2024 ATT Pebble Beach Pro-Am?  Who can rattle that off?

 

Also, don't forget, LIV is not functioning as it was first intended.  It was supposed to be fluid from year to year as to who qualified.  Promotions and relegation or qualification.  The contracts to the players they have currently were required because of the risk the players took on and now that they cannot go back to either tour and also seems they aren't much closer to getting OWGR points.

 

^I am not excusing the fact that all of that has happened.  It happened due to selling a bad bill of goods.  And I know the old saying about my aunt being by uncle instead, but if it were functioning as first conceived, would the events be meaningless if all the top 35-45 players in the world were playing the same format and there was pro/rel/qualification for the year?  There wouldn't be the "useless filler" save for any guy who was just having a terrible year after qualifying.  There are guys with majors exemptions who currently don't have games worthy of being in the fields, especially The Masters with their exemption/invitation rules.

Wyndham Clark with a 3rd round 60.  One more roll on his putt and he has 59.   4th round called due to inclement weather.  54 hole winner for the 2023 US Open Champ.  Some tournaments are more memorable.  I'm sure I'll remember the 2025 3M winner too.  Now I can't remember who won in Phoenix the last 2 years lol.  I even watched both of them too.  

[Titleist99]

11 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

And I'll still stand by them being apples and oranges.

 

They're both entertainment products, but high level professional tournament golf is largely built around the competition being the entertainment. That's why @Titleist99 replied with his "head-scratching" remark about wanting PGAT players to have personality. I think in many cases them having personality is a plus, but it's completely unnecessary as far as the value of the tournament to entertain. It's the competition and the high level of play that is mostly drawing in viewers.

 

You totally get it! Most watch sports to see people do amazing things that they can't do themselves. IMO That's entertaining (to me), and if they do it with a flair that's extra.