LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[mokedaddy]

Just now, jdl said:

Gooch

I was only talking about players staying on tour.  Plenty of liv players have said stupid things.  But saying stupid things also isn’t the same as being stupid.

[aus10KC]

1 minute ago, mokedaddy said:

That dirty isn’t in the same ballpark as not squeaky clean.  Nobody said it’s a crime family but I forgot the internet is serious business 

 

So they are clean, just not squeaky clean. Roger that! 

 

 

[mokedaddy]

Just now, aus10KC said:

 

So they are clean, just not squeaky clean. Roger that! 

 

 

Are you saying the only two things options are murder or breaking no laws.  There is nothing in between?

[Stevens24]

We will have a better idea of how this will play out after the FedEx Cup. If LIV pulls a solid amount of name guys they will get the TV deal(likely Fox after all of the interviews with GN and LIV players. 
 

If not it will go away in 2-3 years. 

[Krt22]

Just now, mokedaddy said:

I was only talking about players staying on tour.  Plenty of liv players have said stupid things.  But saying stupid things also isn’t the same as being stupid.

Stupid is as stupid does

 

 

[mokedaddy]

2 minutes ago, wedgegame said:

Since you know you could clear it up for us all, but wait...

I just don’t care enough.  It’s a message board like I care what anyone thinks.  I merely made a comment to someone and you decided I was trying to break some huge news story.

[mokedaddy]

2 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

Stupid is as stupid does

 

 

So everyone that has said something stupid is stupid?

[oikos1]

3 minutes ago, OKMrazor said:

This is a contradiction in logic.  The tour doesn't appear to be demanding when and where golfers play - if so, they'd have their star front a center more often, which clearly he doesn't want.  Conversely, LIV golfers (as I understand it - haven't seen their contracts) are contractually obligated to play when and where their employers (LIV) tell them to play.    

That is a conflation of issues.  We don't know what the LIV contracts state nor are they relevant to the workings of the PGA Tour.

 

The players filling the lawsuit are challenging the legality of the requirements to maintain a PGA Tour card, amongst other things.

 

 

[jdl]

5 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

To be fair, he is no longer playing on the PGA tour lol

Well, let's see what the judge says this afternoon.

[Krt22]

Just now, mokedaddy said:

So everyone that has said something stupid is stupid?

There tends to be a strong correlation between the things people say and the way people think. 

[wedgegame]

3 minutes ago, mokedaddy said:

I just don’t care enough.  It’s a message board like I care what anyone thinks.  I merely made a comment to someone and you decided I was trying to break some huge news story.

So now it's not that big of deal.  You don't care enough, but you hope the truth comes out.  Got it. 

[mokedaddy]

2 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

There tends to be a strong correlation between the things people say and the way people think. 

Have you ever said something you regretted?

[GwrxMod]

Just now, wedgegame said:

So now it's not that big of deal.  You don't care enough, but you hope the truth comes out.  Got it. 

 

Enough of this back-and-forth. Keep responses on topic or find another topic to post in. 

[aus10KC]

2 minutes ago, mokedaddy said:

Are you saying the only two things options are murder or breaking no laws.  There is nothing in between?

 

Not what we're saying at all.

 

Are they hiding domestic abuse for example? That would be pretty news worthy and a big black mark on the tour. 

 

I'm not the only one questioning what you're saying, you're inferring things the PGAT is doing as not above board, very vague. You of course are under no obligation to disclose what you've heard from players.

 

 

 

[mokedaddy]

Just now, aus10KC said:

 

Not what we're saying at all.

 

Are they hiding domestic abuse for example? That would be pretty news worthy and a big black mark on the tour. 

 

I'm not the only one questioning what you're saying, you're inferring things the PGAT is doing as not above board, very vague. You of course are under no obligation to disclose what you've heard from players.

 

 

 

No I don’t believe they are hiding crimes or anything of that nature.  It’s also not anything life changing or probably even new worthy.  I’m more talking policy and things like why suspensions aren’t announced.

[Krt22]

1 minute ago, mokedaddy said:

Have you ever said something you regretted?

That is neither here nor there. Regret has nothing to do with the content of what you actually said. Talor Gooch calling the first LIV event atmosphere like a ryder cup was stupid, regretting it doesn't change that fact. Bryson talking about Pizza was also stupid. GN should pay these guys not to talk off script.

[oikos1]

8 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

There are 48 tour evens every year, players are only required to play in 15. Why is this surprising? 

 

The tour does not tell players when and where to play, they give them 48 options to choose from.

If Rory is only playing in 9 PGA Tour run events, not the majors, not the fedex cup, not co-sanctioned events, which all count towards the fifteen minimum, why should they care where else he plays except for the fact that they are not getting a piece of the action. 

 

The claim is that it "thins" the talent pool, but if you look at Rory's schedule, do you really think he's dropping but maybe one or two tournaments if he could play elsewhere for large sums of money?  Most everything he plays in is the cream of the crop tournaments.  He's not helping the Tour with it's lesser venues.

[mokedaddy]

Just now, Krt22 said:

That is neither here nor there. Regret has nothing to do with the content of what you actually said. Talor Gooch calling the first LIV event atmosphere like a ryder cup was stupid, regretting it doesn't change that fact. Bryson talking about Pizza was also stupid. GN should pay these guys not to talk off script.

I agree they said stupid things.  But I know for a fact Bryson isn’t stupid.  I’ve never met Gooch.

[OKMrazor]

14 minutes ago, oikos1 said:

That is a conflation of issues.

 

 

Not mine.

 

The tour does not tell players when and where to play.  LIV does.  Your point about the PGA Tour: "yet [they] believe they can tell golfers when and where to play?" 

 

That's a contradiction to your point that they can only get Rory to play in 25% of their tournaments.... not a conflation.

Edited August 9, 2022 by OKMrazor

[Guest RobS]

26 minutes ago, mitchl said:

 

Good points.

As for why people keep saying banned is that it supports the LIV arguments, so the LIV fans will use that.  

I suspect that people may have used the “banned for life” phrase, even possibly some of the PGA management and Majors representatives.   However, when it came down to it, the suspensions will be viewed much more favorably by the courts, and a permanent ban is much harder to defend.   Also, I do suspect that if LIV were to crash, or if players wanted to come back, then the tours probably do want to be able to have some way to bring them back.  (Especially if a player slams LIV or Norman on the way out)

 

As for why LIV didn’t sue - the players suing gets much more empathy.   However, a lot of the arguments in the lawsuit - I don’t know if it applies to the Players arguments.   How does the LIV argument work where the PGA did things to cause LIV to pay significantly more to players than they would have— how does that harm a player?   These golfers well outside the top 50 and getting tens of millions — I just don’t see how they argue any damage at all, almost all of the main players will earn more in 4 years with LIV than they did in 20 playing for the PGA, and playing significantly fewer events.

Yes, many if not most of the serious antitrust allegations weren't player specific.  It seems odd that the players are effectively suing on behalf of LIV for much of what is alleged.  

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, EastTNGolfer said:

I guess I'm in the minority but I hope the PGA tour gets absolutely wrecked.

Dare I ask why ?  Strong feeling require strong reasons. No ? 

[GolfGrouch]

1 hour ago, jdl said:

Per Golf Channel, Carlos Ortiz has removed his name from the lawsuit.

 

Well I now have some new found respect for Carlos Ortiz.  Who's next?

[bladehunter]

12 minutes ago, aus10KC said:

 

Not what we're saying at all.

 

Are they hiding domestic abuse for example? That would be pretty news worthy and a big black mark on the tour. 

 

I'm not the only one questioning what you're saying, you're inferring things the PGAT is doing as not above board, very vague. You of course are under no obligation to disclose what you've heard from players.

 

 

 

The abuse of Lucas Glover is the only abuse they have covered up. And im sure it was at his request 

[Krt22]

8 minutes ago, mokedaddy said:

I agree they said stupid things.  But I know for a fact Bryson isn’t stupid.  I’ve never met Gooch.

Well he sure says a lot of dumb stuff IMHO. Maybe he is just paid to say those silly things

[ahenderX]

14 minutes ago, oikos1 said:

Here's one to contemplate:

 

Rory's 2022 Schedule:

 

Results:

Abu Dhabi HSBC Championship (Yas Links) 12
Dubai Desert Classic (Emirates) 3
Genesis Invitational (Riviera) T10
Arnold Palmer Invitational (Bay Hill) T13
The Players Championship (TPC Sawgrass) T33
Valero Texas Open (TPC San Antonio) MC
The Masters (Augusta National) 2
Wells Fargo Championship (TPC Potomac) 5
PGA Championship (Southern Hills) 8
Memorial Tournament (Muirfield Village) T18
Canadian Open (St George’s) WON
US Open (The Country Club) T5
Travelers Championship (TC River Highlands) T19
JP McManus Pro-AM (Adare Manor) T6
The Open (St Andrews) 3

 

Rory plays in roughly 25% of PGA Tour run events.  The poster boy for the PGA Tour and he only plays in 25% of the 40 some events.

 

The Tour can only get one of their best to play 25% of their events yet believe they can tell golfers when and where to play?  This is why they should have found a workable situation with LIV. 

 

With the pending lawsuit, this is just the beginning of the little secrets the PGA Tour tries to keep quiet.

 

To be a PGA Tour member and have voting rights, a player needs to play in 15 events. The 15 events includes the four majors. The bar is not that high. It’s lower that what LIV players are required to play in 2023 (14 invitational events) if the majors are included and any required Asian International Series events which might be required. The Tour has/had 46 events in 2021-2022, excluding the FedEx Cup. The Tour also provides a $50k bonus for players playing in 15 events. Clearly a lot players do not play in 15 events. The Tour also has exceptions to the 15 event rule. To date, Roy has played in 13 Tour events.

[mokedaddy]

1 minute ago, Krt22 said:

Well he sure says a lot of dumb stuff IMHO. Maybe he is just paid to say those silly things

He’s definitely socially awkward but that doesn’t make him less intelligent.  The only perfect people I’ve met are on the internet.

[Krt22]

11 minutes ago, oikos1 said:

If Rory is only playing in 9 PGA Tour run events, not the majors, not the fedex cup, not co-sanctioned events, which all count towards the fifteen minimum, why should they care where else he plays except for the fact that they are not getting a piece of the action. 

 

The claim is that it "thins" the talent pool, but if you look at Rory's schedule, do you really think he's dropping but maybe one or two tournaments if he could play elsewhere for large sums of money?  Most everything he plays in is the cream of the crop tournaments.  He's not helping the Tour with it's lesser venues.

The why to those questions is largely detailed in the tour's response to the LIV lawsuit

[ThinkingPlus]

49 minutes ago, mitchl said:

 

I am not convinced at all that Cam Smith is going in 2022.   

If you're in the LIV office trying to get OWGR rankings, you DO NOT want Cam or any top 20 player coming now.   You want to keep them safely in the PGA and keeping those rankings up until the LIV tournaments get ranked.    

If that does happen in June (it has been said it might be one year from the application) - then if Cam were to leave now, he will go from #2 to outside the top 15.    If you can bring him in while he is still in the top 5 next summer, the Strength of Field is greatly enhanced - essentially today, One Cam is like 37 Phil Mickelsons  in the Strength of Field calculations.

 

The golfers in LIV now who are still in the top 50 will likely be out of the top 50 by next summer (DJ for example dropped from #2 to #17 from Dec 2021 to June 2022).   If DJ or Ancer are still in the top 50, it won’t be by too much.   

 

So if you don’t see Cam Smith or Hidecki in LIV by November, I don’t know if either side can take anything good or bad by that.

OWGR points can be awarded 1 year after a tour meets all the criteria for receiving OWGR points. So for LIV the 1 year clock doesn't start with their application, but starts when they make all the changes required to receive points.

[betarhoalphadelta]

40 minutes ago, oikos1 said:

Here's one to contemplate:

 

Rory's 2022 Schedule:

 

Results:

Abu Dhabi HSBC Championship (Yas Links) 12
Dubai Desert Classic (Emirates) 3
Genesis Invitational (Riviera) T10
Arnold Palmer Invitational (Bay Hill) T13
The Players Championship (TPC Sawgrass) T33
Valero Texas Open (TPC San Antonio) MC
The Masters (Augusta National) 2
Wells Fargo Championship (TPC Potomac) 5
PGA Championship (Southern Hills) 8
Memorial Tournament (Muirfield Village) T18
Canadian Open (St George’s) WON
US Open (The Country Club) T5
Travelers Championship (TC River Highlands) T19
JP McManus Pro-AM (Adare Manor) T6
The Open (St Andrews) 3

 

Rory plays in roughly 25% of PGA Tour run events.  The poster boy for the PGA Tour and he only plays in 25% of the 40 some events.

 

The Tour can only get one of their best to play 25% of their events yet believe they can tell golfers when and where to play?  This is why they should have found a workable situation with LIV. 

 

With the pending lawsuit, this is just the beginning of the little secrets the PGA Tour tries to keep quiet.

 

 

You know what Rory is *not* doing on the weeks he's not playing the above schedule? Playing alternate events driving up ratings for the PGA Tour's competitor and thereby devaluing the media rights of the other PGA Tour members who *are* playing those events. 

 

The PGA Tour would love for Rory to play more events. But he's not required to, and doesn't personally feel he needs to for money/points purposes. So he doesn't. 

[Krt22]

1 minute ago, mokedaddy said:

He’s definitely socially awkward but that doesn’t make him less intelligent.  The only perfect people I’ve met are on the internet.

Social awkwardness has nothing to do with the content of what people say. Some people aren't very eloquent or well spoken, but you can tell they know what they are saying. Then some people talk out of their a**. I am not saying he is a complete simpleton, he just isn't someone that comes across as smart to me (despite the image he likes to project). All these LIV guys would be far better served taking Phil's silent approach vs opening up their mouths and trying to talk it up. They are either terrible liars or terrible thinkers, because it all comes across as cringe lip service