Unusual Fitting at PXG

[Spells]

My formerly beloved 2012 RBZ driver has been losing a lot of distance and dispersion is way up, despite (because of?) some sequencing and speed training and I went to a local PXG to see if I could figure out what was going on with my driver and what may fix it. Prepared to buy a new driver, but not married to the idea if there was a clear swing fault.

 

RBZ is a light driver, 46" stiff shaft is 40g, head is also light. It turns out I've gone from 2100 RPM spin to much, much higher, apparently through dynamic loft at impact, despite an upward AOA.

 

The fitter eventually solved this by adding 20g to their 7.5 deg 0311 Gen 5 standard head, so 17.5 g to heel and toe each. Lost 2 MPH swing speed, ball speed and smash factor went through the roof, even on poorly struck shots. Carry distance got very consistent. 45" 50 g Tensei Orange stiff, E weight driver, didn't "feel heavy" but the RBZ felt very light after.

 

I came away with a couple concerns.

1. Extreme driver fit may be solving technical issue that would be better worked out with lessons. it's been a few months, but I work with a coach.

2. My typical gamer swing speed of 98-101 (I have occasional Trackman access that's consistent with my launch monitor on CHS) was showing up as 96-97 with my driver, and 94-95 with this heavier weight. I'm worried that a club this heavy may be hard to get into the 105-108 CHS I'd eventually like to get to.

3. The new carry distances were not a major improvement on my ShotScope-measured drives a few months ago, though they were more consistent.

4. If I need a heavy low-lofted head, maybe worth considering a fitting with more brands, or a CPO driver with similar profile until swing is tuned up.

 

Any thoughts on this? My first round was a year ago, I have fitted hybrids and irons, but not a driver.

[WristySwing]

16 minutes ago, Spells said:

My formerly beloved 2012 RBZ driver has been losing a lot of distance and dispersion is way up, despite (because of?) some sequencing and speed training and I went to a local PXG to see if I could figure out what was going on with my driver and what may fix it. Prepared to buy a new driver, but not married to the idea if there was a clear swing fault.

 

RBZ is a light driver, 46" stiff shaft is 40g, head is also light. It turns out I've gone from 2100 RPM spin to much, much higher, apparently through dynamic loft at impact, despite an upward AOA.

 

The fitter eventually solved this by adding 20g to their 7.5 deg 0311 Gen 5 standard head, so 17.5 g to heel and toe each. Lost 2 MPH swing speed, ball speed and smash factor went through the roof, even on poorly struck shots. Carry distance got very consistent. 45" 50 g Tensei Orange stiff, E weight driver, didn't "feel heavy" but the RBZ felt very light after.

 

I came away with a couple concerns.

1. Extreme driver fit may be solving technical issue that would be better worked out with lessons. it's been a few months, but I work with a coach.

2. My typical gamer swing speed of 98-101 (I have occasional Trackman access that's consistent with my launch monitor on CHS) was showing up as 96-97 with my driver, and 94-95 with this heavier weight. I'm worried that a club this heavy may be hard to get into the 105-108 CHS I'd eventually like to get to.

3. The new carry distances were not a major improvement on my ShotScope-measured drives a few months ago, though they were more consistent.

4. If I need a heavy low-lofted head, maybe worth considering a fitting with more brands, or a CPO driver with similar profile until swing is tuned up.

 

Any thoughts on this? My first round was a year ago, I have fitted hybrids and irons, but not a driver.

 

There's a lot to unpack here and you seem to be questioning everything that was done in the fitting.  I'll answer your questions.

 

1) Yes, this is almost always the answer.  However, how long are you willing to wait to get this fixed and how many lessons and money are you willing to throw at it until it gets better?  Gen5 drivers are what $299 and you have a driver that's 10 years old.  Even if your coach fixes you, you are probably going to get the itch for a new driver in the next year or two anyways.  Are you willing to throw $1000 at lessons (assuming 10 lessons at $100 each, which is pretty normal going rate for lesson packages) only to need a new driver at the end of it anyways?  Not always the case but something to think about if he changes your delivery and you still can't hit the old club.

 

2) Could be the difference between machines or it could just be the difference in the days.  You might have been a bit tighter than usual, etc.  Fitting to a swing speed goal in the future is dumb, sorry.  You might never get there.  Play the clubs that fit you now, not the ones you want to fit you in 1, 3, 5, 10 years from now.

 

3) What they were a month ago doesn't matter.  I hit a drive 345 once that doesn't mean that is my new benchmark and all drivers now have to beat that.  You went in with your own club and got a baseline with it.  Did the new driver hit it both further and straighter?  If so, it was a better fit across the board.

 

4) Why?  You hit this driver well apparently.  Why go chasing the ghosts of maybe?  If you are going to do that, you might as well just pay for a second brand agnostic fitting and see where you land.  At least then you will have a tangible benchmark of what you hit better than not vs. just buying something on CPO or the local used dealer because it happens to have a low lofted head and a similar shaft.  I watched a guy in my bay yesterday go from hitting his driver 250 carry all over the place, to the G425 Max 280 carry with a small push draw, to the LTDx LS 240 carry and a violent slice, to the Stealth Plus 289 carry dead straight, and finally to the Rogue ST Max to 220 snap hooks.  Same shaft, same loft setup.  Not all drivers are created equally.  Don't get caught up in the "its close enough game".

 

In short, it sounds like you really don't want this driver anyways.  So I would suggest you either go in for a refit or go pay for a second opinion.  IMO, even if you get this driver you aren't going to be happy with it anyways.

Edited August 23, 2022 by WristySwing

[CROUSE99]

Do you ever hit a 3 wood off the tee? If so, I would think the problem would show up there if it’s a swing issue. 

[Spells]

I do not. Longest club is a RBZ 5 wood I very rarely use. Typical alternate tee shot from me is a 200-210 yd 4 hybrid from Sub70, or irons. I really like the hybrid, and the only place the 5w comes into play is a short mishit in the fairway on a par 5. Rarely used, considering a 3h replacement.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by Spells

[hammergolf]

38 minutes ago, Spells said:

My formerly beloved 2012 RBZ driver has been losing a lot of distance and dispersion is way up, despite (because of?) some sequencing and speed training and I went to a local PXG to see if I could figure out what was going on with my driver and what may fix it. Prepared to buy a new driver, but not married to the idea if there was a clear swing fault.

 

RBZ is a light driver, 46" stiff shaft is 40g, head is also light. It turns out I've gone from 2100 RPM spin to much, much higher, apparently through dynamic loft at impact, despite an upward AOA.

 

The fitter eventually solved this by adding 20g to their 7.5 deg 0311 Gen 5 standard head, so 17.5 g to heel and toe each. Lost 2 MPH swing speed, ball speed and smash factor went through the roof, even on poorly struck shots. Carry distance got very consistent. 45" 50 g Tensei Orange stiff, E weight driver, didn't "feel heavy" but the RBZ felt very light after.

 

I came away with a couple concerns.

1. Extreme driver fit may be solving technical issue that would be better worked out with lessons. it's been a few months, but I work with a coach.

2. My typical gamer swing speed of 98-101 (I have occasional Trackman access that's consistent with my launch monitor on CHS) was showing up as 96-97 with my driver, and 94-95 with this heavier weight. I'm worried that a club this heavy may be hard to get into the 105-108 CHS I'd eventually like to get to.

3. The new carry distances were not a major improvement on my ShotScope-measured drives a few months ago, though they were more consistent.

4. If I need a heavy low-lofted head, maybe worth considering a fitting with more brands, or a CPO driver with similar profile until swing is tuned up.

 

Any thoughts on this? My first round was a year ago, I have fitted hybrids and irons, but not a driver.

The golf ball never lies…. Don’t get lost in playing launch monitor golf. Go out on the course and see how it works. If it doesn’t work, then allow those questions and doubts to be raised. If it works, put it in the bag and flush the questions and concerns. The game is hard enough, but when we overthink things it can become brutally difficult.

[Cwebb]

Have you done detailed impact pattern testing on the face?   This needs to be done before concluding that the extra spin is from more dynamic loft.

 

If your pattern moved down just slightly and/or towards the heel, it's enough to raise spin a lot.  Even if it's still centered enough to feel really solid

[Spells]

51 minutes ago, Cwebb said:

Have you done detailed impact pattern testing on the face?   This needs to be done before concluding that the extra spin is from more dynamic loft.

 

If your pattern moved down just slightly and/or towards the heel, it's enough to raise spin a lot.  Even if it's still centered enough to feel really solid

During the fitting, Trackman clubface heatmap (if that's what you're talking about) showed a relatively centered impact pattern.

 

Appreciate the replies from everybody. Part of what I was wondering was grabbing a CPO club from Callaway with similar characteristics and experimenting a bit. If I may be changing drivers again in a year as technique improves, I'd rather not buy a brand new one now.

[elsie451]

2 hours ago, hammergolf said:

The golf ball never lies…. Don’t get lost in playing launch monitor golf. Go out on the course and see how it works. If it doesn’t work, then allow those questions and doubts to be raised. If it works, put it in the bag and flush the questions and concerns. The game is hard enough, but when we overthink things it can become brutally difficult.

This. Besides, I believe pxg now has a 60 day money back guarantee.  Go out and play it. Not to mention that $299 for a driver is a great deal.

[Spells]

1 minute ago, elsie451 said:

This. Besides, I believe pxg now has a 60 day money back guarantee.  Go out and play it. Not to mention that $299 for a driver is a great deal.

Tensei Orage is a $100 upgrade, but yes.

[Cwebb]

1 hour ago, Spells said:

During the fitting, Trackman clubface heatmap (if that's what you're talking about) showed a relatively centered impact pattern.

 

Appreciate the replies from everybody. Part of what I was wondering was grabbing a CPO club from Callaway with similar characteristics and experimenting a bit. If I may be changing drivers again in a year as technique improves, I'd rather not buy a brand new one now.

 

I always do "manual" impact pattern testing, with foot powder spray.  It's great for practice as well.

 

Remember that the "hot spot" for optimal launch and spin is slightly above center and a smidge towards the toe

[Spells]

Gotcha, thanks for that.

 

As it turns out, a swing coach pointed out I'd gotten exremely upright in my driver swing, eliminating all shoulder tilt. It'll be a relatively large adjustment back, so I am going to hold off on the driver until I have some basics corrected.