Phil was right all along - PGA screwing it’s players

[Valtiel]

2 hours ago, llewol007 said:

He makes a valid point regarding the monopoly which is the PGA but like all businesses, only another big monopoly can compete and that is Saudi oil money and its deep pockets.

 

1 hour ago, Dicka said:

Phil may have had one reasonable point with respect to the Tour but dressed it up in so much other BS to justify his claims, he lost ALL credibility. 

That's kind of the crux of it I think. There is too much nuance to ever really come to a hard conclusion, but if the argument we can attribute to Phil is "the PGA is stingy with it's players and is holding back" then heading up a large competitor to force their hand doesn't prove anything other than "they can find more money IF they feel threatened". The Tour and Monahan aren't doing this because they were "wrong" and should treat the players better, they're doing it for business reasons because a competitor has emerged. Was this Phil's goal all along regardless? I dunno, that feels awfully generous and a bit like phony martyrdom since we know Phil had about 200 million things to gain from it as well. Who knows, but to say he was "100% right" is to metaphorically read the headline without reading the article. 

[NoFancyUsername.]

3 hours ago, Cwebb said:

 

Yet he won a major past the age of 50 last year

SHHHHH.....don't bamboozle the plebs with fact. The majority here wouldn't have an idea on what it takes to win an event on any world tour. Then to even win just one major....and then to win a major when you're over 50.

One major on WRX is not good enough😂

[Ferguson]

1 hour ago, pingbling23 said:

one of the most popular golfers of all time and won 45 tournaments including 6 majors during the tiger era.  Legend!!!

 

But he was never # 1 and never won a US OPEN and never enjoyed the feel of a big Chrysler. 

 

 

[MattyO1984]

So where are the $20B in digital assets 😂

[WhostherealSlimShady]

5 hours ago, straightshot7 said:

what specifically did Phil say that you strongly disagree with?

People don't really study the facts, they just get the 2 second headline and then jump on the bandwagon. Phil was 100 percent correct, however, his delivery medium though Shipnuts was his downfall.

[OKMrazor]

7 hours ago, NMBob said:

 

golf channel golf central replay, saw where they agreed the best thing that ever happened for golfers on the pga tour was the liv golf tour.. they differentiated it may not be the best thing now for the liv golfers, but its the best thing that ever happened for the players still on the pga tour. 

 

Phil and i think even Spieth in a more politically correct wording, if you look at the old thread about Phil, said they could leverage the Liv to get things they wanted for the golfers...100 percent right.

Leverage could have been created within the system.  MLB, NHL, NFL, NBA - all have had work stoppages coordinated by an organized group within the system.   

 

Phil didn't need to screw the hooker - he (and others) could have committed to doing the work in-house. His actions were about greed and up-front money.  People love it because these days its more exciting to "blow it all up" than to work toward a resolution.  People like to see the buildings crumble, whether its in their best interests or not.  

Edited August 25, 2022 by OKMrazor

[Dill Pickleson]

Must feel like a real badass, gets to be a martyr, and get 200 million dollars.  When will it be my turn.

[bladehunter]

So not paying out every cent an organization is screwing its members ?????  How so ? Couldn’t have ever run a business and think that way.  If you don’t keep a fund for a rainy day , well…. Your head gets wet quickly.  Eventually you drown.  
 

this isn’t a positive happening for the tour.  More sideshow , less golf , and more cushion for the bottom isn’t going to up competition quality.  

Edited August 25, 2022 by bladehunter

[bladehunter]

4 hours ago, Ferguson said:

 

But he was never # 1 and never won a US OPEN and never enjoyed the feel of a big Chrysler. 

 

 

You mean the rich Corinthian leather ?!?! 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

9 hours ago, PJE said:

FIGJAM wasn’t right about anything. The Tour is just playing defense in response to dirty money.
He’s a degenerate gambler with a mid life crisis who sold his soul for the cash. 
When he was young, he thought he’d become the greatest. Unfortunately for him, a kid from Cypress,CA came along and since then he’s been overcompensating. 

 

51 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

So not paying out every cent an organization is screwing its members ?????  How so ? Couldn’t have ever run a business and think that way.  If you don’t keep a fund for a rainy day , well…. Your head gets wet quickly.  Eventually you drown.  
 

this isn’t a positive happening for the tour.  More sideshow , less golf , and more cushion for the bottom isn’t going to up competition quality.  

^^^^ two WRX members that see and understand clearly. 

 

Bottom line, Phil was not right.

 

On a personal level Phil appears to be messed up.  Just notice  the vacant, tired look in his eyes. 

Edited August 25, 2022 by BlackDiamondPar5

[cassel191919]

6 hours ago, tw_focus said:

Phil is not the best golfer on tour, he was forever eclipsed by TW. But he had the most charisma and honestly he's one of the truly cool guys on Tour that are really likeable. Chuck said it best, everyone wants to know Phil, play with Phil, he's an all around good dude. And yes, he was right.

Lets be honest he is a criminal who was lucky he didn't go to prison, that doesn't scream great guy.

[iBanesto]

[kasting333]

8 hours ago, WidespreadPanic said:

Maybe he was right, but also maybe his tactic of using the Saudis to leverage the PGA Tour wasn’t the best way to prove it.

It should be obvious that the PGA Tour had to be forced into do this. They were not going to willingly make all these concessions just bc Phil asked nicely 

[Ghost of Snead]

9 hours ago, PJE said:

FIGJAM wasn’t right about anything. The Tour is just playing defense in response to dirty money.
He’s a degenerate gambler with a mid life crisis who sold his soul for the cash. 
When he was young, he thought he’d become the greatest. Unfortunately for him, a kid from Cypress,CA came along and since then he’s been overcompensating. 

 

Spot on - Phil and Norman have been plotting for years for their big moment.

[OKMrazor]

9 minutes ago, kasting333 said:

It should be obvious that the PGA Tour had to be forced into do this. They were not going to willingly make all these concessions just bc Phil asked nicely 

It's highly unlikely many of these concessions were within Phil's agenda.  5k or whatever for missing a cut isn't going to offset his expenses at all.

 

The collective voices of a group working together is what got this done.  Phil "asking nicely" should not have gotten anything done on its own - any business would run itself in circles chasing individual requests or agendas.  Change is effectively created when people coordinate their voices in an effort to move in a singular direction.  The players own some responsibility for a failure to coordinate that effort in the past, just as the players can be commended for coming together and working productively toward change now.

 

It should be pretty obvious, as you say.    

[OKMrazor]

13 minutes ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

Spot on - Phil and Norman have been plotting for years for their big moment.

And it still looked like an uncoordinated side-show.

 

[baitdragger]

9 hours ago, WidespreadPanic said:

Maybe he was right, but also maybe his tactic of using the Saudis to leverage the PGA Tour wasn’t the best way to prove it.

RIP Mikey!

[Golfever]

Just now, OKMrazor said:

And it still looked like an uncoordinated side-show.

 

But I've casually watched more LIV golf on my phone by the pool then I ever did PGA events...

 

The YouTube streaming is smart.

[kasting333]

1 minute ago, OKMrazor said:

The players own some responsibility for a failure to coordinate that effort in the past, just as the players can be commended for coming together and working productively toward change now.

I thought the PGA Tour is the players and they were responsible for every decision up to this point?

[OKMrazor]

8 minutes ago, kasting333 said:

I thought the PGA Tour is the players and they were responsible for every decision up to this point?

The PGA is - essentially - the players.  Every group needs leadership, though, and leadership can't merely listen to the individual voices of its members.   

Edited August 25, 2022 by OKMrazor

[kasting333]

44 minutes ago, OKMrazor said:

The PGA is - essentially - the players.  Every group needs leadership, though, and leadership can't merely listen to the individual voices of its members.   You can think a little deeper, I'm sure.

Yes I was being sarcastic and purposely obtuse to mock that argument. There’s a thick layer of bureaucracy within the tour that’s gone ignored or dismissed by the media and supporters of the tour. 
 

Edit- it wasn’t ignored until LIV came along. The media used to be very critical of that aspect of the tour. 

Edited August 25, 2022 by kasting333

[toc]

No one playing a game for a living is getting screwed

[nitram]

Competition (in everything) forces you to improve or lose. Does anyone honestly think the PGA would have made any new "improvements" without first being punched in the gut? We may not agree with the way it was done but someone/something got the players off high-center and moving in a direction that looks like improvement.

[DON SVO]

10 hours ago, PJE said:

FIGJAM wasn’t right about anything. The Tour is just playing defense in response to dirty money.
He’s a degenerate gambler with a mid life crisis who sold his soul for the cash. 
When he was young, he thought he’d become the greatest. Unfortunately for him, a kid from Cypress,CA came along and since then he’s been overcompensating. 

 

9 hours ago, WidespreadPanic said:

Maybe he was right, but also maybe his tactic of using the Saudis to leverage the PGA Tour wasn’t the best way to prove it.

 

Phil literally said in the Shipnuck quote what he wanted to have happen, and that he was using LIV to do it, because it was the only way it gets done. 

 

"“They’re scary mother [expletive] to get involved with,” Mickelson says. “We know they killed Khashoggi and have a horrible record on human rights. They execute people over there for being gay. Knowing all of this, why would I even consider it? Because this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to reshape how the PGA Tour operates.”

 

Once some of you guys wash the bitter taste of Mickelson out and say "hey, he got something monumental done for the players of the PGAT" it'll help soothe the soul. 

[bscinstnct]

Lol, There’s a difference between

 

Running a conservative balance sheet and a measured “product” development process 

 

and

 

“PGA screwing its players”

 

If Phil ran the tour, it would have been bankrupt 20 years ago 🤣

 

Instead, they scaled up on the payouts, perhaps at the expense of now operating in a deficit instead of a surplus. 
 

But the reason there’s 200MM in cash reserves is the conservative management in the first place. 
 

It’s like a kid complaining that his middle income parents are ripping him off by not buying him a BMW like the rich kids parents down the block.

 

Stuff needs to get paid for.  
 

 

 

 

 

[DON SVO]

5 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

Lol, There’s a difference between

 

Running a conservative balance sheet and a measured “product” development process 

 

and

 

“PGA screwing its players”

 

If Phil ran the tour, it would have been bankrupt 20 years ago 🤣

 

Instead, they scaled up on the payouts, perhaps at the expense of now operating in a deficit instead of a surplus. 
 

But the reason there’s 200MM in cash reserves is the conservative management in the first place. 
 

It’s like a kid complaining that his middle income parents are ripping him off by not buying him a BMW like the rich kids parents down the block.

 

Stuff needs to get paid for.  

 

 

Personal hot take: since the PGAT paints itself as a Super Duper Charity, they're getting this done quickly because they did not like being put under the financial lights whatsoever. 

[FriedEgg]

10 hours ago, NMBob said:

Would love to see someone in the press ask that to some of the outspoken players, hey was Phil right, look at what has happened?   Why did Phil pay a million to play a dual etc on thanksgiving weekend while Tiger and Rory now have their own Monday night money maker organized and approved?

 

money to be made on "Phil was right!" t shirts ?

 

 

 

bet we would all be denied entry to a PGA tour event wearing one of those

[jdl]

Those scary MFers did their job! 😲

[Ghost of Snead]

8 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

Lol, There’s a difference between

 

Running a conservative balance sheet and a measured “product” development process 

 

and

 

“PGA screwing its players”

 

If Phil ran the tour, it would have been bankrupt 20 years ago 🤣

 

Instead, they scaled up on the payouts, perhaps at the expense of now operating in a deficit instead of a surplus. 
 

But the reason there’s 200MM in cash reserves is the conservative management in the first place. 
 

It’s like a kid complaining that his middle income parents are ripping him off by not buying him a BMW like the rich kids parents down the block.

 

Stuff needs to get paid for.  
 

 

 

 

 

 

Posters here seems to think this is a bad thing in any major company or organization. Give it ALL to the players - damn any future plans.

[TwistedSister]

4 minutes ago, FriedEgg said:

 

bet we would all be denied entry to a PGA tour event wearing one of those

I'll try if the WRXers would pay my expenses.