How to play good golf without rotating the hips?

[golfarb1]

For irons try setting in a reverse K with the lead hip vertically over the lead foot. That would basically eliminate the need for any lead hip bump going down .

You set up very  unusually - very Duck toed with both feet 

The right  foot flare INCREASES the range of motion of the the right   knee , hip and  right hemi-pelvis going back , but at a cost of the restricting the range of motion of the left  knee , left hip and left hemi-pelvis going down . That restriction , when down over and over again can easily lead to to pain and injuries with the left hip/ knee/ pelvis .

 

Edited September 15, 2022 by golfarb1

[Augster]

1 hour ago, kcpark87 said:

Am I the only one who is seeing a flip (face on video)?

That flip has always been there. 
 

It is what has to happen when you stop your left hip rotation. When your hips decelerate, it transfers all the way  up the chain to the point that if I don’t time the flip, I’ll bury it in the dirt behind the ball. 
 

My “bump” used to take care of the flip, but my left knee gave out first. 
 

The overly open front foot is so that I have half a chance to get the left hip out of the way so the club MIGHT get to the ball and strike it before the hip stalls and the flip starts. 
 

It gives the hip a little bit of a head start. And the foot flare makes the left knee work more correctly instead of just bowing toward the target. 

[Augster]

37 minutes ago, golfarb1 said:

For irons try setting in a reverse K with the lead hip vertically over the lead foot. That would basically eliminate the need for any lead hip bump going down .

You set up very  unusually - very Duck toed with both feet 

The right  foot flare INCREASES the range of motion of the the right   knee , hip and  right hemi-pelvis going back , but at a cost of the restricting the range of motion of the left  knee , left hip and left hemi-pelvis going down . That restriction , when down over and over again can easily lead to to pain and injuries with the left hip/ knee/ pelvis .

 

Toes flared out under the knees is more anatomically correct. It lets you get maximum rotation in both directions. Check out Shawn Clement/WIG. 

[bnperrone]

I’ve got a little bit of foot flare after a car accident made hip mobility a bit of an issue. I also used to have to control a sway, which is less of an issue now than when I was a junior. Give this a try: Flare the feet less so you’re a bit more freed up. That super wide flare has you so locked down. At the same time pinch your knees lightly to keep that knee from moving laterally. I suspect that this is a far less extreme way of keeping your knee from moving all over as opposed to massively flaring your foot. 
 

Bear in mind I’m not an instructor. I’ve just got some experience with injury recovery and controlling lateral movement and whatnot. The other sports and activities you can do without pain would suggest you can make golf work.

 

Best of luck to you.

[RainShadow]

23 hours ago, Augster said:

Here’s a link to a recent swing in my backyard net. My right toe has been killing me (not diagnosed yet but it’s at least an ingrown toenail), so I’ve adapted to sliding the trail foot so as not to aggravate it. 
 

 

 

 The crocks are the source of toe pain….

[cgasucks]

I used to have some pain in my left hip when I intentionally and forcefully get my left hip out of the way on my downswing but since I have rebuilt my golf swing since then to a more natural and athletic movement, the pain is gone. 

 

Get in your golfing stance but hold a golf ball in your dominant hand (no club) and throw it downrange.  Does your hips hurt when you it?  I doubt it.  When you do it naturally and athletically, your hips will move the right amount and at the right time with no pain (not too much, but not too little, but just right).

 

 

Edited September 16, 2022 by cgasucks

[Nard_S]

17 hours ago, Zitlow said:

Hips don't lie.

 

 

 

Hotty......

 

The "step back" motion described by Mike Malaska is the clearest way to see hip movement. At least for me. "Rotation" set me up for failure. Hips lever they don't spin. 

[Krt22]

15 hours ago, Augster said:

Toes flared out under the knees is more anatomically correct. It lets you get maximum rotation in both directions. Check out Shawn Clement/WIG. 

Is he a bio-mechanics expert? And as with all things in golf, you can over-do things. Too much of a "good" thing can be not-so-good

[larrybud]

20 hours ago, Augster said:

Thanks for the suggestions. 
 

I’ll look into Manuel’s stuff. I tried it before. 
 

It’s also been suggested to give the Todd Graves/Moe Norman swing a try. I’ve watched a few videos on that last night and practiced a little and gave it a try for 9 holes today. Not bad. Still dumped a GW on a 109 yard par 3 way left and doubled it, so it’s not some miracle cure. But I’ll give it a few more swings. 

 

I'm sorry, but a swing is not a switch. You can't "Try moe normans" swing, or "try manuels" swing. It doesn't work that way.

[Zitlow]

2 hours ago, Nard_S said:

Hotty......

 

The "step back" motion described by Mike Malaska is the clearest way to see hip movement. At least for me. "Rotation" set me up for failure. Hips lever they don't spin. 

 

Shakira. I'm not familiar with Malaska's "step back" motion but starting the club and letting it swing on it's on volition that he advocates is way ahead of the inside drives the outside garbage that's out there. Yep, the hips are balance points to support the body weight in the backswing and downswing. 

 

@Augster I've never seen anyone with bad balance hit the ball very long or straight.

 

You're turning on an invisible axis around your spine. Scroll up to the photo of Sam Snead at the top, it's just a snapshot but you can see that he's balance on his right leg and hip. Notice how powerful he looks.  

 

 

All you have to do is step sideways onto your right foot as you use your hands to swing the weight of the clubhead back followed by a slight left side bend and you'll have it.

 

The quicker and smoother you do it the more momentum (domino effect) you'll have which will swing you to the top where you should feel your weight is balanced on your right leg and hip. It reverses in the downswing. Add the correct hand action and you'll hit the ball farther than you ever dreamed. 

 

Basically the lower body swings the upper body, the upper body swings the arms and the hands swing the club. The hands and feet drive the swing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 16, 2022 by Zitlow

[Simpsonia]

3 hours ago, Nard_S said:

Hotty......

 

The "step back" motion described by Mike Malaska is the clearest way to see hip movement. At least for me. "Rotation" set me up for failure. Hips lever they don't spin. 

 

Similar but related, Tyler's video at GSA "360 Jumps" was the one video that made everything click for me for the lower body. It's all about leg drive, and everything else, hips included, is merely a reaction. The next step was incorporating that feel with Dr. Kwon's rhythm drills (Haerim Dance), ie how can I make my shoulders turn this way and fling my arms out by just focusing on the ground and nothing but the ground.   

[golfarb1]

4 hours ago, Nard_S said:

Hotty......

 

The "step back" motion described by Mike Malaska is the clearest way to see hip movement. At least for me. "Rotation" set me up for failure. Hips lever they don't spin. 

You and most instructors are conflating hip movements and pelvis movements. 
Hip movements are defined as movements of the head of the femur ( thigh bone) within each respective hip socket. Because the hip joint is a ball and socket joint , the hips are among the most mobile joints in the body with external and internal hip rotation common. Because the other end of the thigh bone forms the knee joint , rotation of each respective hip will automatically also rotate the knee .

 

Due to its design and strong supporting ligaments , the pelvis is VERY LIMITED in its ability to rotate  on its own.So called “ rotation of the pelvis “in the golf swing , is really dependent on changes in position of each respective hip socket . And such changes in position of each hip socket are dependent on the straightness of each leg . For example in order to “rotate “the pelvis going back , the rear leg must straighten, allowing for  the REAR hip socket  to move both  back and towards the target ; in order for the pelvis to “ rotate “  in the downswing , the  the lead leg must be in the process of straightening  at impact. This allows the LEFT hip socket to move both back  and away from the target 
That is what Mr Malaska deacribes

. 

 

Edited September 16, 2022 by golfarb1

[Augster]

5 hours ago, larrybud said:

 

I'm sorry, but a swing is not a switch. You can't "Try moe normans" swing, or "try manuels" swing. It doesn't work that way.

I disagree. You switch, put in the time in practice, then see where you’re at. Then switch again if it’s not working. 
 

We’re not talking expert level, pure everything, kind of switch. I’m purely looking for a way to swing that takes the pain out of my hip, and doesn’t F-up my left knee again. Trying a new swing, once one has the basics down, setup, posture, grip, and how the instructor wants you to swing, I can tell pretty quickly if there’s pain or not. If no pain, and I can practice, I’ll practice for a while until I feel I’ll see results, or not.

 

 

[mikpga]

What’s the diagnosis on your lead hip?

[Augster]

6 minutes ago, mikpga said:

What’s the diagnosis on your lead hip?

When I went to the doctor in 2020 for it, they had me rehab it with exercises and stretch bands. I did that all winter. I don’t have any pain doing anything but golf. 
 

I was rehabbed then went on my golf trip Feb of 2021. First swing, pain. I decided to work on it. 
 

I had pain, a lot, during 2021 season. Offseason came and I rehabbed it and built a swing over the winter that I could get around the course with without pain. 
 

Unfortunately, this swing doesn’t “work”. 2022 is easily my worst scoring year of my life, but I can walk after every round, unlike 2021’s swing which my whole left side was wiped out the rest of the day. 
 

I decided last week to try to score again. After failing completely all season long, and now that all the events I care about are over, I figured I’d give it a try. 
 

My “old” swing I’m able to do, but I started getting some pain in my hip again. Hence this post. 
 

There isn’t much doctors can do for me at this point. I’m completely fine and healthy and can do anything I want, pain free, except play good golf. 
 

I’m sick of scoring terribly. I need a swing that won’t give me hip pain, AND I kind of know where the ball is going. Then practice, practice, practice. 
 

I have all off-season and I’m hoping to cobble together a swing for 2023 that is pain free, and I kind of know where the ball is going. 

[Nard_S]

6 hours ago, Simpsonia said:

Tyler's video at GSA "360 Jumps" was the one video that made everything click for me for the lower body. It's all about leg drive, and everything else, hips included, is merely a reaction.

Interesting how a concept or intent gets it done for some and does zip for others. My legs are now driven by the levering of hips joints, I'm focused on them not the ground even though my legs may do exactly what yours does. It's chicken or egg thing. That said I'm a huge fan of dropping and popping off ground too.

 

I used to "drive my legs" but I was doing it in the wrong direction with the wrong gyroscope and applying it all at the wrong time. Identifying pelvic or hip moves as "rotation" is flat out bad way to convey what ought to happen. The language is misleading. 

[Valtiel]

3 hours ago, Augster said:

I disagree. You switch, put in the time in practice, then see where you’re at. Then switch again if it’s not working. 
 

We’re not talking expert level, pure everything, kind of switch. I’m purely looking for a way to swing that takes the pain out of my hip, and doesn’t F-up my left knee again. Trying a new swing, once one has the basics down, setup, posture, grip, and how the instructor wants you to swing, I can tell pretty quickly if there’s pain or not. If no pain, and I can practice, I’ll practice for a while until I feel I’ll see results, or not.

 

 

 

34 minutes ago, Augster said:

When I went to the doctor in 2020 for it, they had me rehab it with exercises and stretch bands. I did that all winter. I don’t have any pain doing anything but golf. 
 

I was rehabbed then went on my golf trip Feb of 2021. First swing, pain. I decided to work on it. 
 

I had pain, a lot, during 2021 season. Offseason came and I rehabbed it and built a swing over the winter that I could get around the course with without pain. 
 

Unfortunately, this swing doesn’t “work”. 2022 is easily my worst scoring year of my life, but I can walk after every round, unlike 2021’s swing which my whole left side was wiped out the rest of the day. 
 

I decided last week to try to score again. After failing completely all season long, and now that all the events I care about are over, I figured I’d give it a try. 
 

My “old” swing I’m able to do, but I started getting some pain in my hip again. Hence this post. 
 

There isn’t much doctors can do for me at this point. I’m completely fine and healthy and can do anything I want, pain free, except play good golf. 
 

I’m sick of scoring terribly. I need a swing that won’t give me hip pain, AND I kind of know where the ball is going. Then practice, practice, practice. 
 

I have all off-season and I’m hoping to cobble together a swing for 2023 that is pain free, and I kind of know where the ball is going. 

Given these posts and the videos showing what appears to be a complete lack of ability to push the left hip back i'd maybe try not only flaring the lead foot out but basically presetting an open "cleared" position, a la Fred Couples, and basically hitting intentional pushes/blocks from that more leftward aiming position. Right now you're flaring that lead foot out, but your foot alignment is quite closed:



The turn that you then make back from here is pretty deep:



If your left side has mobility issues then it can't be just be sitting right in your way like this because you can't get it back and cleared. You then hit a pull from this position based on not being able to clear and all that is going to do is continue putting stress on that lead side and give you low point control issues due to your upper half outracing your slow lower half. Cheating your lead foot back to open your stance and intentionally pushing the ball instead of pulling it might be something to consider. Either way you won't be able to play consistent golf with the combo of a deep right hip turn, a slightly shut stance, and lead side mobility issues as that's a bad matchup. 

Edited September 17, 2022 by Valtiel

[Augster]

24 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

 

Given these posts and the videos showing what appears to be a complete lack of ability to push the left hip back i'd maybe try not only flaring the lead foot out but basically presetting an open "cleared" position, a la Fred Couples, and basically hitting intentional pushes/blocks from that more leftward aiming position. Right now you're flaring that lead foot out, but your foot alignment is quite closed:



The turn that you then make back from here is pretty deep:



If your left side has mobility issues then it can't be just be sitting right in your way like this because you can't get it back and cleared. You then hit a pull from this position based on not being able to clear and all that is going to do is continue putting stress on that lead side and give you low point control issues due to your upper half outracing your slow lower half. Cheating your lead foot back to open your stance and intentionally pushing the ball instead of pulling it might be something to consider. Either way you won't be able to play consistent golf with the combo of a deep right hip turn, a slightly shut stance, and lead side mobility issues as that's a bad matchup. 

Tell me about it. Lol. 
 

Thanks for the help. I’ve played from a closed stance for so long, anything remotely open feels “ishy”. 
 

I have thought about playing completely open, as you describe, to make sure my left is out of the way. I’ve never really given it much time though, a couple hundred balls, and nothing gets good. In the past. 
 

I’ll give it a try. Thanks!

[mikpga]

1 hour ago, Augster said:

When I went to the doctor in 2020 for it, they had me rehab it with exercises and stretch bands. I did that all winter. I don’t have any pain doing anything but golf. 
 

I was rehabbed then went on my golf trip Feb of 2021. First swing, pain. I decided to work on it. 
 

I had pain, a lot, during 2021 season. Offseason came and I rehabbed it and built a swing over the winter that I could get around the course with without pain. 
 

Unfortunately, this swing doesn’t “work”. 2022 is easily my worst scoring year of my life, but I can walk after every round, unlike 2021’s swing which my whole left side was wiped out the rest of the day. 
 

I decided last week to try to score again. After failing completely all season long, and now that all the events I care about are over, I figured I’d give it a try. 
 

My “old” swing I’m able to do, but I started getting some pain in my hip again. Hence this post. 
 

There isn’t much doctors can do for me at this point. I’m completely fine and healthy and can do anything I want, pain free, except play good golf. 
 

I’m sick of scoring terribly. I need a swing that won’t give me hip pain, AND I kind of know where the ball is going. Then practice, practice, practice. 
 

I have all off-season and I’m hoping to cobble together a swing for 2023 that is pain free, and I kind of know where the ball is going. 

Okay.  What was the diagnosis?

[Augster]

7 minutes ago, mikpga said:

Okay.  What was the diagnosis?

Nothing I can remember. They didn’t take XRays or anything, just said I have pain there, and we’ll rehab to strengthen the muscles around it. 
 

Which I did. 

[mikpga]

2 minutes ago, Augster said:

Nothing I can remember. They didn’t take XRays or anything, just said I have pain there, and we’ll rehab to strengthen the muscles around it. 
 

Which I did. 

Well, I’d like a better response from the doctor…

 

Not even a guess or opinion?

[Augster]

Okay. A few suggestions that I was trying and see if my thinking is correct. 
 

Like the Sneed pic, my right hip does go up on the backswing. For me, thinking the pelvis is like a “teeter totter”, I think, is the right move for the hips/pelvis. Correct? Right hip goes up in the backswing, left hip comes up in the downswing and follow through. 
 

Thinking that, and trying to play a push from an open stance, was a very different feel for me. I can only hit foam balls in a hallway, and I hit about 75 of them, and the results were really good and encouraging. 
 

I’ll have to hit some outside tomorrow where I can see the ball flight. But having the left hip completely out of the way is certainly a different feel and no chance of pain currently. 

[Augster]

1 minute ago, mikpga said:

Well, I’d like a better response from the doctor…

 

Not even a guess or opinion?

This was almost 2 years ago. So they may have said something, but I don’t remember.
 

They gave me the option to go see a golf-specific PT, but the stretch band stuff worked great and I got my mobility back so I didn’t bother. 
 

 

[mikpga]

7 minutes ago, Augster said:

Okay. A few suggestions that I was trying and see if my thinking is correct. 
 

Like the Sneed pic, my right hip does go up on the backswing. For me, thinking the pelvis is like a “teeter totter”, I think, is the right move for the hips/pelvis. Correct? Right hip goes up in the backswing, left hip comes up in the downswing and follow through. 
 

Thinking that, and trying to play a push from an open stance, was a very different feel for me. I can only hit foam balls in a hallway, and I hit about 75 of them, and the results were really good and encouraging. 
 

I’ll have to hit some outside tomorrow where I can see the ball flight. But having the left hip completely out of the way is certainly a different feel and no chance of pain currently. 

Hips bend backward from impact to finish…

 

Or, extending…

[Saijin]

On 9/15/2022 at 4:43 PM, kcpark87 said:

Am I the only one who is seeing a flip (face on video)?

Not the only one. But he said he can't rotate...

no rotation = dolphin the flipper.  Especially if he doesn't know how to slow the hands down.

[Tanner25]

On 9/14/2022 at 11:10 PM, Augster said:

Here’s a link to a recent swing in my backyard net. My right toe has been killing me (not diagnosed yet but it’s at least an ingrown toenail), so I’ve adapted to sliding the trail foot so as not to aggravate it. 
 

 

 

 

Any luck with the toe? I had a problem with an infection on the right big toe plus arthritus. It didn't get better until the nail was removed. If you can't put weight on it, I am not sure if golfing right now is such a good idea.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Tanner25

[ShortGolfer]

They gave me the option to go see a golf-specific PT, but the stretch band stuff worked great and I got my mobility back so I didn’t bother. 

 

If you can see a Physical Therapist with expertise in helping folks with their golf swing that would be the best option.

Even better than seeing a doctor as they have more practical experience.

 

[Pastit]

50 minutes ago, Tanner25 said:

 

Any luck with the toe? I had a problem with an infection on the right big toe plus arthritus. It didn't get better until the nail was removed. If you can't put weight on it, I am not sure if golfing right now is such a good idea.

May I suggest you let your partner/ spouse do the DIY in future. 

[hurley999s]

11 hours ago, Augster said:

Okay. A few suggestions that I was trying and see if my thinking is correct. 
 

Like the Sneed pic, my right hip does go up on the backswing. For me, thinking the pelvis is like a “teeter totter”, I think, is the right move for the hips/pelvis. Correct? Right hip goes up in the backswing, left hip comes up in the downswing and follow through. 
 

Thinking that, and trying to play a push from an open stance, was a very different feel for me. I can only hit foam balls in a hallway, and I hit about 75 of them, and the results were really good and encouraging. 
 

I’ll have to hit some outside tomorrow where I can see the ball flight. But having the left hip completely out of the way is certainly a different feel and no chance of pain currently. 

Something that I’ve worked on and helped me…instead of focusing on “turning” either the left hip to the left or bringing the right hip around in the downswing, try an intent/feel to press hard into the left heel and straighten the left leg - the classic “post up” move. 
 

Look at the FO screenshot below. I’ve had the intent to really start pressing and straightening at this point…prevents the continued forward sway of the hips. It’s basically putting the brakes on the lower half so the upper half slings through like cracking a whip, or a boat turning and slinging a water-skier outward. Question for you should be “when” you apply this intent, and that’s going to be personal and something you’ll need to experiment with and verify with video.

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by hurley999s

[Zitlow]

People get in their own way because they try to make the swing conform to the linear static plane established at address. Austin was swinging on a dynamic rotating plane, as he rotated the plane rotated with him. 

 

 

He's using his hands to whirl the clubhead in a circle around the base of his neck. The clubhead can be accelerated much much faster using a circular motion rather than a linear motion.