Struggling with coach and just overall swing frustration

[ahelix]

I started golfing about 4 years ago and am very busy with work and a young family. Don't get to play a ton--maybe 9 holes a week on average, and practice about 3 times a week for 30 minutes. I've been getting lessons for a couple years and have generally been happy with my progress, but recently just hit a wall. I was kind of stuck at a handicap of 20 for a while, and have got down to 14-15, which has been great, but in my lessons I just feel like we're hitting the same problem over and over and over again.

 

So I keep hitting a wall with my coach on this one swing issue. We've finally gotten to the point where we might abandon getting me to try hitting draws and just go with cuts because of it. The issue is hard to describe, but it's that I can't really get my left hand to release properly (instead of the wrist turning on the follow-through, I kind of just chicken wing, and am very righthand dominant/armsy). We'll do drill after drill and get it fixed with a 9-to-3 swing, do one-arm drills, etc... but then when we get to full swing the old habit comes right back. He almost said "ok let's just teach you how to play a cut" but it felt like a compromise neither of us was ready to make.

 

I'm young, athletic, workout regularly, have good mobility, etc. so I don't really wanna give up on the swing I'm trying to work towards. This is more just to vent than anything else... I think as a beginner/intermediate player, I expect certain fixes to happen in one or two lessons, but some issues may take quite a while to fix. Especially if I can only practice about 30 minutes a few times a week.

 

I live in an area without a lot of great coaches so I don't really want to switch. This coach uses a Trackman indoors etc. and I like how he's fairly technical (I've dabbled with local coaches outdoors and it felt like they were just giving me bandaid fixes, not addressing fundamental/root cause swing problems). I can send him swing videos anytime and he'll respond with his feedback, etc. I guess one alternative would be online/video lessons but I feel like it's hard to beat a fairly good in-person coach with a video coach.

 

Any encouragement, advice, etc. would be much appreciated!

 

As an aside: my goal is to get down to under a 10 by the end of 2023! And eventually to scratch just like everyone else obsessed with this damn game! lol

[Double Mocha Man]

10 minutes ago, ahelix said:

Any encouragement, advice, etc. would be much appreciated!

 

I'd say stick with the guy for now.  See where you are in 6 months.  Your teaching pro sounds like he's really invested in your swing and wants to make it work.

[tthomasgolfer605]

You have to play this game to get better. 9 holes a week won't cut it. 

[Double Mocha Man]

10 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

You have to play this game to get better. 9 holes a week won't cut it. 

 

Good point.

[ahelix]

24 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

You have to play this game to get better. 9 holes a week won't cut it. 

I could prob get that up to 18 once a week at the very best.

 

I find it hard to believe someone can’t get to a 10 HCP with good lessons and smart practice while playing no more than 18 once a week. At least that’s what I’m banking on!

[Krt22]

Three issues here

 

-trying to fix a chicken wing flip without identifying the root cause is hard. It's a compensation to make contact, you have to do it otherwise you will hit it worse

-you are likely spinning your wheels during your 30 minute sessions since you haven't addressed the core issue yet

-9holes a week isn't enough 

[WristySwing]

2 hours ago, ahelix said:

I started golfing about 4 years ago and am very busy with work and a young family. Don't get to play a ton--maybe 9 holes a week on average, and practice about 3 times a week for 30 minutes. I've been getting lessons for a couple years and have generally been happy with my progress, but recently just hit a wall. I was kind of stuck at a handicap of 20 for a while, and have got down to 14-15, which has been great, but in my lessons I just feel like we're hitting the same problem over and over and over again.

 

So I keep hitting a wall with my coach on this one swing issue. We've finally gotten to the point where we might abandon getting me to try hitting draws and just go with cuts because of it. The issue is hard to describe, but it's that I can't really get my left hand to release properly (instead of the wrist turning on the follow-through, I kind of just chicken wing, and am very righthand dominant/armsy). We'll do drill after drill and get it fixed with a 9-to-3 swing, do one-arm drills, etc... but then when we get to full swing the old habit comes right back. He almost said "ok let's just teach you how to play a cut" but it felt like a compromise neither of us was ready to make.

 

I'm young, athletic, workout regularly, have good mobility, etc. so I don't really wanna give up on the swing I'm trying to work towards. This is more just to vent than anything else... I think as a beginner/intermediate player, I expect certain fixes to happen in one or two lessons, but some issues may take quite a while to fix. Especially if I can only practice about 30 minutes a few times a week.

 

I live in an area without a lot of great coaches so I don't really want to switch. This coach uses a Trackman indoors etc. and I like how he's fairly technical (I've dabbled with local coaches outdoors and it felt like they were just giving me bandaid fixes, not addressing fundamental/root cause swing problems). I can send him swing videos anytime and he'll respond with his feedback, etc. I guess one alternative would be online/video lessons but I feel like it's hard to beat a fairly good in-person coach with a video coach.

 

Any encouragement, advice, etc. would be much appreciated!

 

As an aside: my goal is to get down to under a 10 by the end of 2023! And eventually to scratch just like everyone else obsessed with this damn game! lol

 

Welcome to the club.  I've been with the same coach off and on for probably 10 years, dabbled a bit with other ones and the root problem still exists for me as well.  I have a hard time rotating once I get into the impact zone, I stall, and then I flip.  I've done it probably my whole life.  Sometimes things are just there.  I worked with a coach who teaches tour pros on it and, like you, he would have me hitting it so GD pure on the range and give me exact drills to do.  I'd go home, hit the range 3-4x a week for an hour or so and just drill it in me, send him videos via Instagram and he'd give me the nod, get back to our next lesson 10-15 days later and the stall and flip was back.  

 

I still practice drills to tame it, but I understand that it is a part of my swing and I am likely not going to get rid of it.  Instead of trying to fix that, the coach I have been off and on with and I have reworked my swing path to be a bit more out-in instead of in-out and it seems to have allowed me to maintain the wrist angle through the ball much better and hit the ball mostly where I am aiming +/- 5yards either side of target on my good strikes.  For the amount I play, I am happy with that and am using that as a starting point to continue to refine it and get better to finally fully rotate thru the impact zone.

 

As Sam Snead said, "you have to dance with who brung 'ya".  Give it a bit more time but if it still stays then maybe talk to your coach about keeping to hit that fade.  Ben Hogan, Nicklaus, DJ, Rahm, Tiger, and many others have had fantastic careers playing a fade.  Sure they could hit a draw when it mattered, but they tend to rely on those stock shots for the majority of their strikes, so why can't you?

Edited September 28, 2022 by WristySwing

[phizzy30]

Just now, WristySwing said:

 

Welcome to the club.  I've been with the same coach off and on for probably 10 years, dabbled a bit with other ones and the root problem still exists for me as well.  I have a hard time rotating once I get into the impact zone, I stall, and then I flip.  I've done it probably my whole life.  Sometimes things are just there.  I worked with a coach who teaches tour pros on it and, like you, he would have me hitting it so GD pure on the range and give me exact drills to do.  I'd go home, hit the range 3-4x a week for an hour or so and just drill it in me, send him videos via Instagram and he'd give me the nod, get back to our next lesson 10-15 days later and the stall and flip was back.  

 

I still practice drills to tame it, but I understand that it is a part of my swing and I am likely not going to get rid of it.  Instead of trying to fix that, the coach I have been off and on with and I have reworked my swing path to be a bit more out-in instead of in-out and it seems to have allowed me to maintain the wrist angle through the ball much better and hit the ball mostly where I am aiming +/- 5yards either side of target on my good strikes.  For the amount I play, I am happy with that and am using that as a starting point to continue to refine it and get better to finally fully rotate thru the impact zone.

 

As Sam Snead said, "you have to dance with who brung 'ya".  Give it a bit more time but if it still stays then maybe talk to your coach about keeping to hit that fade.  Ben Hogan, Nicklaus, DJ, Rahm, Tiger, and many others have had fantastic careers playing a fade.  Sure they could hit a draw when it mattered, but they tend to rely on those stock shots for the majority of their strikes, so why can't you?

I agree.  I think it's best to play your natural shot shape and not fight it, especially for golfer that's a beginner/intermediate like the OP.  Working on the swing to change shot shape can always be addressed as the golfer becomes more advanced and understands the mechanics of the swing. 

[clm18958]

If the goal is only to be a 10 you’d be better off playing whatever you have a get a short game. Smack it around the green and get up and down 9 times a round you’ll be under a 10 no problem. 

[llewol007]

I say dont work on trying to draw the ball. Work on hooking the ball. If that makes sense then your hands have a chance. Not sure why the fascination with hitting a draw. I play the cut all day and play to a single digit handicap. I too wanted to play the draw early on in my golf days thinking it gave me extra distance but the  issues it created getting there led me towards playing my natural ball flight. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by llewol007

[Hajab]

2 hours ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

You have to play this game to get better. 9 holes a week won't cut it. 

How does that fix a swing? Genuinely curious

[tthomasgolfer605]

35 minutes ago, Hajab said:

How does that fix a swing? Genuinely curious

A golf swing evolves more from on the course than it does just hitting range balls. 30 mins here and there is not enough practice either. 

[PoeKingShankspeare]

Some of my friends started golf less than 3 to 6 years ago and some had lessons from instructors and some didn’t. One is a single digit like myself and the others are low teens… 11-13…. I was a bit shock on how quickly they improved in such a short time. Pretty impressive. 

 

one thing we all have in common, we play more than 9 holes a week, or 30 mins practice sessions. Some of us have sims at home and others spend their practice time chipping and putting at the range, even if it’s less than 30 mins. But, they all find time to practice even without a club and/or ball, families or no family.

 

I believe if you had more time to practice, or find ways to practice at home, and play more, things will be different for you. I returned to golf about 6 years ago and started as range rat with lessons and yet I was stuck at 12-14 like I was decades ago. Then I played more, spend more time in the short game area from pitching to chipping to bunker to putting. And broke into single digits in a few months. Yet, I still have flaws in my full swing.

 

Lastly, my Sensei would say to us (in Japanese), karate practice doesn’t end after we leave the dojo. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by PoeKingShankspeare

[hammersia]

4 hours ago, llewol007 said:

I say dont work on trying to draw the ball. Work on hooking the ball. If that makes sense then your hands have a chance. 

This ^^^

 

During your practice sessions, do the Spieth warmup and simply try and hook the ball to the extreme left of the range, then slice it to the extreme right. Develop some feels for how to make it happen, then you've got a starting point and you can start tightening up the dispersion.

[GingerBubba]

No one else has said it yet so I will.

 

Two things:

1. Buy a new driver.

2.  New coach.

 

Okay, so No 1's a joke and No 2 you don't want to do, but it's worth trying imo.

 

I had lessons for a while with the same issue. I had a really nice, mega experienced coach who tried his best, but couldn't change the flip problem. I then left the game for ten years and came back to a new coach, not all that long graduated as a PGA coach, who sorted the flip within a couple of months without even trying - as in, as he sorted my body out, my weight transfer, turn etc - and the hands/flip resolved itself as a consequence.

[MonteScheinblum]

I know of at least one multiple tour winner who played himself off ten tour switching from a fade to a draw.

[Dufferonius]

I feel your pain, @ahelix.  I'm having a heckuva time getting my downswing right.  If I break it down into bits, I can get each of the bits right--or at least right-ish.  But when I try to stitch the bits together to make a complete downswing I get one or the other of them wrong.  And that's slow-motion--not even with any speed.

 

The most common flaw is my old swing working its way back in.  I get the pivot-down from the top ok, shallow the club, then end up pulling the club down, stalling my hips, and driving my swing with my upper body.

 

My old downswing "worked."  I could strike the ball pretty consistently, from driver through PW.  But I had lousy club head speed.  I can tell, from the feel of the correct swing, that, once I get it right I'll realize increased CHS even without swing speed training.  But, man, it's a bit frustrating.

 

I will get it right, though.

 

Someday... 🤪

Edited September 28, 2022 by Dufferonius

[Shushwap]

Have a look at the tour striker smart ball.. learn to chip with it to start

I would also have a look at another coach.. everyone has a different way of teaching 

I have worked with a few different coaches over the years trying to find someone that speaks crappy golfer 😆 

I found a guy a few years ago... he has changed my game 

He started from scratch with my swing..everything from ball position on up

I also started using  the fit for golf app... my flexibility has made huge gains with my swing as well 

 

[Dufferonius]

11 minutes ago, Shushwap said:

... trying to find someone that speaks crappy golfer 😆 

 

🤣

[RmoorePE]

If you have a consistent fade, consider yourself lucky and just start playing the game more. Aim left, swing as hard as you can and enjoy!

 

 

[larrybud]

OP, this is not a bash on you at all, but this idea of trying to "hit a draw" when you're a 20 is just crazy to me. I mean, IDK, you might be a really lousy chipper and putter to earn that 20, but since you're talking about the full swing...How about just trying to hit the ball relatively solidly first?

 

Having the "same problems over and over" again tells me your coach isn't fixing the root cause of whatever the symptom is (hitting a slice??), but instead giving you a bunch of band-aides which might work for a bit, and of course, never stick, because they aren't fixing the root cause.

 

You asked for advice, so I'll give it: I would have dumped him in the first year. Ask him what is wrong with playing a cut, and see what he says. Sounds like a typical teaching pro who has no clue as to what he's doing.

There is nothing wrong with shopping around. Try a FEW different teachers. Each guy has his own style, own ideas. You wouldn't keep going back to the same restaurant if the meals were crap, would you?

[ahelix]

Wow, thank you guys for all the advice and the reality check. I'm not going to abandon my lofty goals, but I understand they may take longer to get to with the amount of time I can dedicate to golf right now. 

 

Here's my plan with the helpful input from you all above:

1. Play  and practice more (thanks @tthomasgolfer605 @Krt22 @PoeKingShankspeare) : Play 18 holes per week (can do year-round here), and increase practice to 30-45 minutes 4-5 times a week (in addition, I practice putting for about 15 minutes, 4 times a week with a matt in my office) 
2. Change up my coach, sort of (thanks @GingerBubba) : I get weekly lessons for two-month stretches, then no lessons for two months. I'm going to try out one of those online coaches in my next two-month stretch without in-person lessons, and if I like the online guy a lot better than my in-person guy, I'll just switch fully. (I'm sure there are tons of threads on the online coaches so I'll search... but if there's a good go-to thread, I would appreciate the link!). I've tried out a couple of the other local coaches already and I didn't like them as much.
3. Draw vs fade issue @RmoorePE@MonteScheinblum @llewol007 @phizzy30 @WristySwing : What I described initially may have been a little misleading. My big swing fault we're trying to fix isn't really good for a draw OR a fade, just that it'd be easier to play a fade if I can't fix it. Not gonna give up on it just yet... going to finish out this current two-month stretch with my in-person coach, and then see how it goes with the online person before I stop trying to fix it and just accept it/work around it.

Things I didn't mention before:

• I have a Mevo+ with performance package I use at home, and a tripod for getting swing videos easily at home.
• I'm currently a 14 HCP (not 20, @larrybud), not that it makes a huge difference, you're right in that I just need to worry more about club face control/solid contact first)

@Shushwap: ordered that impact ball. Thanks!

[glk]

1 hour ago, ahelix said:

Wow, thank you guys for all the advice and the reality check. I'm not going to abandon my lofty goals, but I understand they may take longer to get to with the amount of time I can dedicate to golf right now. 

 

Here's my plan with the helpful input from you all above:

1. Play  and practice more (thanks @tthomasgolfer605 @Krt22 @PoeKingShankspeare) : Play 18 holes per week (can do year-round here), and increase practice to 30-45 minutes 4-5 times a week (in addition, I practice putting for about 15 minutes, 4 times a week with a matt in my office) 
2. Change up my coach, sort of (thanks @GingerBubba) : I get weekly lessons for two-month stretches, then no lessons for two months. I'm going to try out one of those online coaches in my next two-month stretch without in-person lessons, and if I like the online guy a lot better than my in-person guy, I'll just switch fully. (I'm sure there are tons of threads on the online coaches so I'll search... but if there's a good go-to thread, I would appreciate the link!). I've tried out a couple of the other local coaches already and I didn't like them as much.
3. Draw vs fade issue @RmoorePE@MonteScheinblum @llewol007 @phizzy30 @WristySwing : What I described initially may have been a little misleading. My big swing fault we're trying to fix isn't really good for a draw OR a fade, just that it'd be easier to play a fade if I can't fix it. Not gonna give up on it just yet... going to finish out this current two-month stretch with my in-person coach, and then see how it goes with the online person before I stop trying to fix it and just accept it/work around it.

Things I didn't mention before:

• I have a Mevo+ with performance package I use at home, and a tripod for getting swing videos easily at home.
• I'm currently a 14 HCP (not 20, @larrybud), not that it makes a huge difference, you're right in that I just need to worry more about club face control/solid contact first)

@Shushwap: ordered that impact ball. Thanks!

Dan carraher (iteach here) is the best bargain on skillest at $50.   https://www.instagram.com/dancarraher/

 

monte from here does online but also live lessons via FaceTime or zoom.  https://www.instagram.com/montescheinblum/?hl=en

Edited September 28, 2022 by glk

[jda]

There are all kinds of fades.  Deep, low-spin, driven fades will play just as well as a draw.  Ballooning, high, spinny slices will not and you need to work on your swing.  Which do you have?

 

Most people who draw with the swing (not by just closing the face at inpact), get through the ball with power, so this works.  You can do this with a fade too, but it is harder to see and too many think that any kind of fade is the nasty kind instead of a good kind.

 

Just try and hit the ball in one shot shape with lower spin numbers.  If you can do this, then you can probably live with some swing issues - most people have them.  Get below a 10 and then worry about it some more.  You won't likely be able to get to a zero on any course without at least two different shot shapes, so that is a different task for a different day.

 

Nobody likes to hear this, but if you have seen a video, know what the problem is and just cannot make your body fix it, then you just need more time to get more athletic control of your swing.  Nobody can cheat this or rush it... it just takes reps in most cases.  If you are athletic, this will come.  You should be able to do almost anything on command if you need to, not with perfect results, but most of the way there in a try or two.  For example, if you have swing enough and have control over your swing, you should be able to roll a towel stuck under your rear arm and still strike a drive pretty well with a swing or two - not perfect, but you should be able to feel the point of the exercise and adapt almost instantly.

 

There is a fine line between "you be you" and getting better.  If you need to fix something, then finding a different coach to just fine tune your suck is not good, but it happens too often in golf where many just want to perform now.  Getting better is hard and takes time, but it is worth it if you have time and metal toughness, IMO.  Only you can decide which you want to do.  It is reasonable to do either in different phases of your life.

[ShortGolfer]

As someone who has fully recovered from a stroke and has had to learn to walk again I'd like voice my opinion that a few reps scattered throughout the day is more effective than one long session each day.  It is also a balancing act between pushing yourself to learn new things and practicing the old stuff over and over with little benefit.  Rotation is such an important part of a golf swing that I did that for long time before doing anything else.  I practice short game on an executive course so I was in no rush to move the next step before I was ready.  I'm not athletic but I am great at figuring out problems and working out step by step solutions to get to my desired result.

A lot of times the direct path isn't the shortest way to get to where you want to go.

Edited September 29, 2022 by ShortGolfer

[larrybud]

I would also add this: Handicap is only a metric. You need a *plan* for your golf game. HOW are you going to lower your cap to 10, and what is lacking in your current game to achieve that?

 

You need to measure/record where you're losing the most strokes and work on that biggest flaw first.

 

FYI, this is coming from someone who has taken lessons from probably 10 instructors in a 10 year period, and only 2 were helpful in any way.

[Zitlow]

You're young and athletic, try going your own way. To hit a golf ball hard you need joint mobility, balance and quickness which you probably have in spades.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2022 by Zitlow

[ahelix]

After directly messaging some of you, I tried out Monte's No Turn Cast and it was a total gamechanger! 

 

That fact alone is strongly in favor of those of you above who said to try out a different coach (no excuse because of the great online options). I was reluctant to change because I thought I'd been going to the best guy locally, and who knows, maybe he is... but holy crap he's nowhere near as good as someone like Monte (and probably many of the others who are recommended on these forums).

[Hilts1969]

On 9/28/2022 at 12:31 AM, ahelix said:

I started golfing about 4 years ago and am very busy with work and a young family. Don't get to play a ton--maybe 9 holes a week on average, and practice about 3 times a week for 30 minutes. I've been getting lessons for a couple years and have generally been happy with my progress, but recently just hit a wall. I was kind of stuck at a handicap of 20 for a while, and have got down to 14-15, which has been great, but in my lessons I just feel like we're hitting the same problem over and over and over again.

 

So I keep hitting a wall with my coach on this one swing issue. We've finally gotten to the point where we might abandon getting me to try hitting draws and just go with cuts because of it. The issue is hard to describe, but it's that I can't really get my left hand to release properly (instead of the wrist turning on the follow-through, I kind of just chicken wing, and am very righthand dominant/armsy). We'll do drill after drill and get it fixed with a 9-to-3 swing, do one-arm drills, etc... but then when we get to full swing the old habit comes right back. He almost said "ok let's just teach you how to play a cut" but it felt like a compromise neither of us was ready to make.

 

I'm young, athletic, workout regularly, have good mobility, etc. so I don't really wanna give up on the swing I'm trying to work towards. This is more just to vent than anything else... I think as a beginner/intermediate player, I expect certain fixes to happen in one or two lessons, but some issues may take quite a while to fix. Especially if I can only practice about 30 minutes a few times a week.

 

I live in an area without a lot of great coaches so I don't really want to switch. This coach uses a Trackman indoors etc. and I like how he's fairly technical (I've dabbled with local coaches outdoors and it felt like they were just giving me bandaid fixes, not addressing fundamental/root cause swing problems). I can send him swing videos anytime and he'll respond with his feedback, etc. I guess one alternative would be online/video lessons but I feel like it's hard to beat a fairly good in-person coach with a video coach.

 

Any encouragement, advice, etc. would be much appreciated!

 

As an aside: my goal is to get down to under a 10 by the end of 2023! And eventually to scratch just like everyone else obsessed with this damn game! lol

I've not read the whole thread but you need a new coach 

[Soloman1]

.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Soloman1