Arccos Technical Issues/Questions

[ajlacombe]

I do not see an appropriate thread for this, so here is a new one to deal with technical issues and questions about Arccos.

 

I have wondered how Arccos handles the issue where you are hitting a shot that it says is 140 yards, but playing 150.  I hit my 150 club and it goes 140.  Does Arccos say I hit my 150 club 140?  Same thing in reverse - it is 150 playing downhill and I hit my 130 club and it goes 150, does it get a 150yard shot entered so that Arccos lists that as 150?

 

I am sure it supposedly averages out - I am not so sure.

 

Another one that it does not handle well IMO is a transition club - that you use for full shots and partial shots.  My 54º sand wedge is that club for me.  Full shots it goes 100 easy - 105 with a little extra, but it is listed as 93 in the app.  I know this and blow off its suggestions, but wanted to know if others see this?

 

I like the system overall, but I have wondered about the distance issues because I see some gapping issues that I think are caused by the above, and if you use a club for hitting approach or tee shots.  If I hit my 5i for an approach shot it is 180-185, but if I hit it off the tee it is 190-200 and on some holes 215-220 - I do not think Arccos handles that at all.  Tee shots roll out way more than an approach for me.

 

Sorry to ramble, but I have used Arccos for 2 years now and had these questions in the back of my head 🙂 

[bobmcbobson]

It seems to do a good job of removing the outliers from the distance for each club, but you can also control it. If you go the distance data for each club in your bag, you can see which shots it is counting and which it isn't. You can then manually exclude certain shots (or include ones it removed). It's not perfect, but it is a way to accomplish what you're trying to do.

[Evanwill10]

A little off topic, but found the Arccos customer service and support to be the least helpful group I’ve ever dealt with. Told me I was actually not experiencing issues and would not back down. Was very strange for a niche company.

[ajlacombe]

I should rename this thread to be my experience with Arccos.  I do not mean to rail on a company but it is frustrating when a company has an awesome tool that is poorly implemented and their customer service is all over the map.

 

Let me say Arccos has really helped my game and I rely on it heavily as a caddie.

 

Issues:

1. Link - I had to buy the Link because the phone would not pick up the shots, not a super big deal but my Link lasted I thought a year but must be less because the current warranty is a year (ridiculously low). I got it replaced and my current Link is flaking out.  They go for $150 these days
2. Sensors - I bought the earlier sensors so that there was no per year cost.  When Arccos came out they had no annual fee and said they would not charge one - then the did an about face and started charging $99 a year.  Now the annual fee is $155 and charged monthly - no annual fee - that is nuts since it is 12 times more billing going on and from their perspective they are not locking you in for a year. So my sensors were flaky and they ran me through the mill of tests and sending them stuff and they NEVER replaced any of them.  At this point my sensors are all dying about 2.5 years in. Doing diagnostics on these things is a PITA.
3. New Sensors - so I just decided to take advantage of holiday pricing and bought a new Sensor/Link bundle at $300. They give you a $50 gift card (cool), but it expires in 6 months! WTF? How is that of any value at all?  You will not need anything within 6 months so it is almost worth nothing.  You can buy a few towels, do what I did and buy spare sensors.  They have 25% off non-bundled items.  They have a sensor bundle of 3 and 5 sensors, but the bundle is 3 or 5 times the single sensor price (deceptive), so I put the single sensors in the cart and got 25% off - I got 4 for the price of 3 and redeemed my gift card.

So your cost is $155 a year for the subscription and then the hardware which is currently priced at $300 for hopefully 2 years or $305 a year for Arccos.  Personally I feel that is a bit high.  The sensor warranty is 2 years so IMO the Link should be 2 as well.

 

I just wanted to put this info out there so someone coming in new can be more informed on the Arccos system.  Most normal companies would enjoy getting feedback on their products but I know that Arccos does not care.

 

Anyone else have comments on an Arccos experience.

 

Once last comment is that the sensor design is crap if you assume that the sensors are supposed to stay screwed in the end of the grip.  I use Pure grips (Love Pure grips - they are the bomb for installation) and the Arccos sensor is too big for the butt end and they tend to sit cockeyed on the grip.  Arccos sensors will loosen on all grips though - you will turn into Rapha Nadal and start to have a twitch where you instinctively tighten the sensor on EVERY shot because you know it will loosen and fall out eventually

[DB Golf]

On 12/14/2022 at 9:14 AM, ajlacombe said:

Arccos sensors will loosen on all grips though - you will turn into Rapha Nadal and start to have a twitch where you instinctively tighten the sensor on EVERY shot because you know it will loosen and fall out eventually

Good to know. I just got mine. Maybe I’ll try installing with a dab of hot glue. 

[DB Golf]

Anyone else recently buy the sensors with a 1-yr included subscription, and, if so, did you experience a problem with the app not recognizing your subscription? I reached out to Arccos but haven’t heard back yet. 

[Andygolderson]

On 10/18/2022 at 3:33 AM, ajlacombe said:

I do not see an appropriate thread for this, so here is a new one to deal with technical issues and questions about Arccos.

 

I have wondered how Arccos handles the issue where you are hitting a shot that it says is 140 yards, but playing 150.  I hit my 150 club and it goes 140.  Does Arccos say I hit my 150 club 140?  Same thing in reverse - it is 150 playing downhill and I hit my 130 club and it goes 150, does it get a 150yard shot entered so that Arccos lists that as 150?

 

I am sure it supposedly averages out - I am not so sure.

 

Another one that it does not handle well IMO is a transition club - that you use for full shots and partial shots.  My 54º sand wedge is that club for me.  Full shots it goes 100 easy - 105 with a little extra, but it is listed as 93 in the app.  I know this and blow off its suggestions, but wanted to know if others see this?

 

I like the system overall, but I have wondered about the distance issues because I see some gapping issues that I think are caused by the above, and if you use a club for hitting approach or tee shots.  If I hit my 5i for an approach shot it is 180-185, but if I hit it off the tee it is 190-200 and on some holes 215-220 - I do not think Arccos handles that at all.  Tee shots roll out way more than an approach for me.

 

Sorry to ramble, but I have used Arccos for 2 years now and had these questions in the back of my head 🙂 

Not sure i understand who said what. Do you mean the distances to the pin per scorecard / tee off, The Arccos number, or do you mean the caddie function ? The reason i ask is that i really did not like or trust the caddie, so i always played my gut feeling based on the final number.

You can also refine front, midde and back on the top corner, then you can deep dive into the green layout to set the real pin position. From my courses, the pin position was always wrong, or a wrongly mapped green, so i played to the middle number each time.

 

Arccos will compensate the up and downhill pretty well. It will give a yard or 2 for hot and cold weather and it will try to predict the wind direction and speed. However, the wind is where i really did not feel it was at all accurate.

The club suggestion is based on the data it's collected from each strike youve made. So the more you play, the more accurate it will become.

 

You need to keep in mind though if you've improved over time and are striking the ball well on a regular basis, that it's still counting the x hundred of crap shots you'd been hitting before. It takes the range into play mostly, i believe. (you can see average, range, longest as far as i remember)

 

So, for example, you might hit your 7 iron well 90% of the time to 170 and you think your 6 iron is 180 yards. The caddie might suggest you a 7 iron on a 180 shot because it's more repeatable to get to that distance, as opposed to 30% of the time getting your 6 iron to 180. On the other hand, it might recommend you a 5wood, or a hybrid, for what you consider to be a 4 or 5 iron distance.

 

It also depends if you're on the fairway or from the rough, so all the computations are in place to give you the most accurate "playing as" number

 

I would recommend you judge the wind by yourself. Where i play, it might appear into wind, but during your group's tee off, it might change 4 or 5 times direction or gust. If it' windy, just play 1 club more.

 

The more club data you have, the more accurate it should become in recommending the club to play. I didn't like this function, so i apply my own "feel yardages" to the number the app is producing.

If you browse your yardages, you might see wide green gaps for each club, indicating you're chunking some, skulling some and generally not accurate for a small distance dispersion.

If you're someone with a very tight bar on each club for the range, you should be able to trust the caddie selection.

 

You might need to go back and delete some shots, like punch shots, chunks, bad condition shots etc, as they will interfere with your range.

If you've vastly improved over time, you might also consider to exclude all your bad rounds from the statistics to help narrow down more accurately on your range

[DB Golf]

On 12/29/2022 at 1:27 AM, Andygolderson said:

it's still counting the x hundred of crap shots you'd been hitting before.

Arccos lets you adjust from your last 100 shots down to your last 5 shots. 

[ajlacombe]

On 12/29/2022 at 1:27 AM, Andygolderson said:

Not sure i understand who said what. Do you mean the distances to the pin per scorecard / tee off, The Arccos number, or do you mean the caddie function ? The reason i ask is that i really did not like or trust the caddie, so i always played my gut feeling based on the final number.

You can also refine front, midde and back on the top corner, then you can deep dive into the green layout to set the real pin position. From my courses, the pin position was always wrong, or a wrongly mapped green, so i played to the middle number each time.

 

Arccos will compensate the up and downhill pretty well. It will give a yard or 2 for hot and cold weather and it will try to predict the wind direction and speed. However, the wind is where i really did not feel it was at all accurate.

The club suggestion is based on the data it's collected from each strike youve made. So the more you play, the more accurate it will become.

 

You need to keep in mind though if you've improved over time and are striking the ball well on a regular basis, that it's still counting the x hundred of crap shots you'd been hitting before. It takes the range into play mostly, i believe. (you can see average, range, longest as far as i remember)

 

So, for example, you might hit your 7 iron well 90% of the time to 170 and you think your 6 iron is 180 yards. The caddie might suggest you a 7 iron on a 180 shot because it's more repeatable to get to that distance, as opposed to 30% of the time getting your 6 iron to 180. On the other hand, it might recommend you a 5wood, or a hybrid, for what you consider to be a 4 or 5 iron distance.

 

It also depends if you're on the fairway or from the rough, so all the computations are in place to give you the most accurate "playing as" number

 

I would recommend you judge the wind by yourself. Where i play, it might appear into wind, but during your group's tee off, it might change 4 or 5 times direction or gust. If it' windy, just play 1 club more.

 

The more club data you have, the more accurate it should become in recommending the club to play. I didn't like this function, so i apply my own "feel yardages" to the number the app is producing.

If you browse your yardages, you might see wide green gaps for each club, indicating you're chunking some, skulling some and generally not accurate for a small distance dispersion.

If you're someone with a very tight bar on each club for the range, you should be able to trust the caddie selection.

 

You might need to go back and delete some shots, like punch shots, chunks, bad condition shots etc, as they will interfere with your range.

If you've vastly improved over time, you might also consider to exclude all your bad rounds from the statistics to help narrow down more accurately on your range

 

The question is simply if you hit a shot that was playing 200 but is only 160 in true yardage, does Arccos say you just hit your 4 hybrid 160 or 200? Yes things should all average out in the end - that is not the question, the question is how does it enter that shot.

 

You could see if you went to altitude that this matters, or came from altitude to sea level.

 

 

[Andygolderson]

On 1/2/2023 at 8:02 AM, ajlacombe said:

 

The question is simply if you hit a shot that was playing 200 but is only 160 in true yardage, does Arccos say you just hit your 4 hybrid 160 or 200? Yes things should all average out in the end - that is not the question, the question is how does it enter that shot.

 

You could see if you went to altitude that this matters, or came from altitude to sea level.

 

 

ok, so Arccoss is saying you have 200 to the target, but you've ranged or paces it whatever and it's 160, right ?

Anyway, the caddie, orthe club selection will recommend you the biggest succes rate to reach that target by hitting x club. Today it might be your hybrid, tomorrow it might be your 8 iron, next friday, it might be a 5 iron.

It's all AI calculation, based mostly upon your previous performance with your clubs over time, together with population data from similar handicap players, your accuracy metrics, etc, etc, etc. (I can't fully say exactly what, so i leave it vague, but i think you should get the point)

 

I've played at elevation, both on sea level and at ~1500m above, in both regular, cold and hot and humid climates. i don't see any noticable difference in relation to Arccos, because like i just mentioned, each time you play the same course, you might have different recommendations.

 

I just re-subbed again this past weekend and i took it out once. As you mention, it's very disappointing they increased the price, particularly since i've not observed any improvements from the previous 4 years after a 6 month break. Even the beta app i'm using, has become less stable than before and doesn't seem to have too many additional features.

 

One thing i noticed which might help you, but i forget exactly how to do it - if you're on the hole and it's telling you it's playing like 200, you can swipe up and it will higlight the range of clubs to that distance and estimate your distances.

 

It's still completely trash in the wind. I played on saturday with "13mph" on each hole, both into or against. in reality it was about 25mph and minimum 2-3 club up into the win. Arccoss still just gives the regular club , or suggest a +1. Sure, you can argue my skill level to hit it below the win, but on a flat course i can feel the wind at my toes, it's not really making a difference. Arccoss still can't determine your ball flight. I'm curious if it will try to take ball brand flight data into consideration for wind or not. probably just for their social media statistics...

 

Ultimately, my point is that the plays like is fairly accurate for the most part, if you're not playing in medium to strong winds. You should make your own judgement based on your capability and knowledge of your strike and ball flight to get to the distance it suggests you.

 

Quick example, ignore that i'm 2km away. 160yard par 3, 10ft dowhill into wind. From the chosen tee location, it's 149 yards to the center, Arccos calulates it as a 165 shot, potentially playing up to 179 in a gust, recommending a 7iron. To be honest, i wouldn't get a 7 iron to 179, even on a good day.

 

If you get into Caddie, it's also showing 149 GPS and recommending a 6iron ....within a few seconds and a button press away, from recommending me a 7. But i believe, the key part here, is based on the strokes gained (predicted), as this is the new metric that was changed / "introduced" 1-2 years ago.

 

 

Once you click on the wind / levation top left button, you can see the calculations it's making. In this case, i now se the wind calculation seems to be a percentage of the distance you are to the hole, since it's compensation 240yards as i'm 2km away. 248 ft is also inaccurate as i'm in an elevated building compared to the course, but ou can clearly see the compensations.

So i'd be playing 4 down for elevation, 5 down from humidity, adding 21 for temperature, then additionally adding for distance to the hole (tee location) , wind and altitude.

And you might also consider the accuracy of your cell reception could vary by 5yards, depending on your GPS and your communication speed and quality.

The key point from this final snapshot is that within this menu, you see the various clubs available and the recommended 'range' they will give you, based on your previous and average performance with those individual clubs

 

I usually see 149 to the center, downhil would be around 145 and i select my club. it's a good 9 or a safe 8 for me. Given that it's 14mph into wind i'm gong to add at least 1 club, so indeed, i might hit a 7 here. For me, this is just lucky the caddy proosed a 7, because that original number provided is based on 165-179, which off course is innacurate due to elevation and proximity.

 

So, i don't use the caddy and go with my instincts, but do use the on course adjusted "playing as" figure to base on my club selection.

 

Hopefully that makes sense and can let you make your judgement to the original question. 

 

Arccos thinks for that particular shot, your 4 hybrid is the best choice to reach the target with the highest percentage of making it. (that implies Arccos thinks your average 4 hybrid goes 200yards). You can verify the actual stats in your club data by selecting your 4 hybrid to see all the data.