Iron set AW v 50deg wedge

[iamthebeard]

Seeking some thoughts on an idea I've cooked up in my head based on seeing some tour players witbs through the year.  

 

Background: got a fresh set of jaws forged 55/50 earlier this year and love the looks and feel but have noticed having a hard time especially with the 50deg of hitting the same distance as my previous MD4 50. experimented with a few different shafts and lengths to get it right but the Jaws forged 50 has never lived up to what I wanted out of it and went back to the MD4 for competition (+4hdcp highly competitive mid am) 

 

Thought: using a iron set based AW since its mostly a full shot club and not a jaws raw 50deg. The next question would be which model AW to use since my 2018 xforged never made an AW with the set. Thought would be get a tcb aw or should I just get a jaws raw set of wedges and be done with it. 

 

 

[this_is_golf]

My thought process is having the iron set AW/50* since I’m using it for full swings and is a natural progression from the PW. 

[MrCook]

I've seen an interesting discussion about that very topic a while ago between the TaylorMade tour players on the official TM youtube channel.

 

The gist: Depends on what you want from the club and how much spin you put on the ball. Not sure who it was, but one of them said that he's leaning towards a set gap wedge after playing an MG in that spot for years because he wants his GW to just stop on the green with a full shot, not rip back off the front edge. 🤣 Obviously if you don't put that much spin on the ball or the greens you play aren't tour level fast, your preference might go towards a specialty GW.

 

I found that very funny and a cool piece of insight.

[ChipNRun]

1 hour ago, iamthebeard said:

Thought: using a iron set based AW since its mostly a full shot club and not a jaws raw 50deg.

 

This is common advice across the blog.

 

And, it depends on the particular set AW. My back-up bag is all TM gear, and the SLDR iron set AW is excellent for both full shots, and for shorter finesse shots. Years earlier I had Callaway X20 irons, and the set AW was a problem all around for distance control.

 

[PureDivots]

I have both a GW that matches my irons and then a 50* SM8 that matches wedges. I have a problem with delivering too much loft on higher lofted clubs because of this I struggle to hit wedges as far as my swing speed would suggest. To combat that this year I have used my set GW because it is lower spinning to help prevent the ones that balloon or rip off the green. So far the results have been good. The one negative is that I don't like it as much as the 50* for bump and runs around the green, but I do that less than I hit approaches. The only time I put the 50* back in the back is if I know I need the stopping power due to course conditions.  If you're mostly hitting full shots I think a AW TCB would be worth a try. At the level of golf you are playing one tiny tweak can make a big difference since the margins are so small. 

[Jeff58]

Most wedges are still in the mode of highest spin = best wedge. A significant issue for many players, particularly for wedges in the 46-52 degree range, is the lack of both maximum distance and distance control. Essentially, swinging faster only creates more spin, not distance.

The two “players” in countering this effect IMO are Vokey SM9’s and Bettinardi.

[Striker Ace]

CBX Zipcore 

 

This is the way

[iamthebeard]

On 10/21/2022 at 1:29 PM, PureDivots said:

I have both a GW that matches my irons and then a 50* SM8 that matches wedges. I have a problem with delivering too much loft on higher lofted clubs because of this I struggle to hit wedges as far as my swing speed would suggest. To combat that this year I have used my set GW because it is lower spinning to help prevent the ones that balloon or rip off the green. So far the results have been good. The one negative is that I don't like it as much as the 50* for bump and runs around the green, but I do that less than I hit approaches. The only time I put the 50* back in the back is if I know I need the stopping power due to course conditions.  If you're mostly hitting full shots I think a AW TCB would be worth a try. At the level of golf you are playing one tiny tweak can make a big difference since the margins are so small. 

Just stinks there was never an AW for the 2018 xforged. You might've talked me into ordering the tcb aw to give it a shot. 

[PureDivots]

29 minutes ago, iamthebeard said:

Just stinks there was never an AW for the 2018 xforged. You might've talked me into ordering the tcb aw to give it a shot. 

Love those 2018 X forged a AW would have been a nice option. 

[Ivyguy]

So…. I have had arguments with my playing partners about this. 
 

Full disclosure: I own a tin cap (not literally but I like conspiracies). 
 

The goal of manufacturers is to sell clubs. This cannot be argued, it is what it is. 
 

We have been indoctrinated into thinking a full set of clubs is, at least, 4-pw.  This is 7 clubs. BUT through the strengthening of lofts, now the need for a AW (or a pw with a loft next to it) are needed to fully gap a normal bag. 
 

Look through the threads on this site. Some will be asking about gapping at the low end of their bags due to strong iron lifts. 
 

This leads me to believe that the hint for longer marketable distance now gives the opportunity of selling an additional club. The AW, or gap wedge. 
 

The leader in wedge sales is Titleist. If you want to argue that, I’ll brew a pot and still beat you with their Tour presences and overall sales. The wedge game has been dominated by Vokey/Titleist for a long time.  
 

The need for an iron version of a “gap” wedge is due to the fact that distance pursuit and sales require it. 
 

My PW in high school was 49 degrees.  These were Tour issue MP 14 (my dad was a Mizuno pro). I carried a special 53 and a 57 from Cleveland.  
 

Im just saying the loft changes have created the need for the consumer to buy the 4 iron they are taught to need, AND the actual PE the ACTUALLY need.  
 

But the AW or whatever they are calling it. It will , more than likely, be more beneficial to your game than a specialist wedge. 
 

These are generalities, but I have drank a lot of rum tonight (special edition and it is great).  
 

sorry for the rant. But I think we got played. 

[heathpitts]

On 10/21/2022 at 2:36 PM, Jeff58 said:

Most wedges are still in the mode of highest spin = best wedge. A significant issue for many players, particularly for wedges in the 46-52 degree range, is the lack of both maximum distance and distance control. Essentially, swinging faster only creates more spin, not distance.

The two “players” in countering this effect IMO are Vokey SM9’s and Bettinardi.

I agree on this but I’ll add the T22s to the ones seeming to counter this spin issue. My 50 and 58 SM7s seemed to go the same distance on a fullish swing. I originally believed the T22s were somehow “hotter” after I gained so much distance from them.   Now I actually get the distances I want out of that spot in the bag but still have tons of spin around the greens 

[DMartini]

the 2021 X Forged CB offers a set AW, perhaps that may blend a tad easier than TCB with a 2018 X Forged set? 

 

@Ivyguy like your style, enjoy those rums!

[SE Gamer]

I prefer the iron set wedge for similar reasons to others in this thread. With my current set, I fortunately don't have this predicament. PW from my set is 49*. And I then carry a 52*, 56*, and 60*.

 

Just purchased a very lightly used set of Rogue ST Pros (4-AW). Again, I'm fortunate in that the set's AW is 49*. So I (hopefully) can just continue on with my 52*, 56*, and 60*. 

[bvanlieu]

Its player specific as already mentioned. Even hitting full distance, do you also use that G/A loft for pitching/chiping/flighting? If so that bounce and grind may or may not effect you.

 

A few years back I took my P770 A wedge (nice forged club, one I hit hundreds of full shuts with) and spent an hour around a green with a medium grind 50d specialty wedge. I hit a variety of shots, pitches, chips, alternating which club I hit first so as not to get any advantages in feels.

 

For me, square up they were even, but as soon as I wanted to play the 50 as a 52 the subtle grind differences were noticable. Less catching with them. So no A wedge for me anymore. 

 

Some folks are 54/48/55/60 kind of 2 wedge players and no need, others play 'em all so that's what I encourage people to do when I am asked this question by some friends. 

 

 

[nino44]

I recently went with a set gw (Callaway apex mb) and have found its far more consistent for me than the titles 50 degrees I used previously. Easier for me to gap to my pitching wedge and still take yardage off when I want. There is no way I would use a non set gw currently in a tournament, they are too inconsistent for me. 

[Pars or Doubles]

Current set has 49* gap wedge.  My 53-57 wedge setup still works for gaps and pretty much all the shots I'm interested in hitting.

[Is Golf Fun or Work]

Fortunately, my current irons (as well as several prior sets) offered a gap "A" wedge, which I bought as matches the set and makes gaps a bit more consistent.

[scooterhd2]

Nothing wrong with either, but when you see the tour player playing the set wedge, keep in mind how the weight is completely dialed to their swing. Take a guy like Sam Burns who plays Project X 6.5 in irons, but has X100 in his set gap wedge. And who knows what kind of tip weighting he may have to help flow into his heavier head MD5 wedges with S400s. It's just quite a bit different than playing some irons off the shelf irons with XP95s and thinking the gap wedges will be more forgiving. That would be really dependent on your swing. 

 

 

[Albatross Dreamer]

I have this exact same problem as I need a club for that 80-110 range, which means either an easy PW swing or trying to rip my 52°. I tend to get the 52 super high in the air when doing that though. Right now I'm honestly probably going to keep both the AW and 52 in my bag then see which one I want to take out should I ever have to only have 14 clubs in the bag. Or get a 50/52 that has the right specs for those swings as well down the road (think I need something a little heavier than the MG2). Perhaps the best route for you could be putting both in the bag then seeing which one you find yourself grabbing more and keep that as the permanent one?

[iamthebeard]

On 10/23/2022 at 3:31 AM, Ivyguy said:

So…. I have had arguments with my playing partners about this. 
 

Full disclosure: I own a tin cap (not literally but I like conspiracies). 
 

The goal of manufacturers is to sell clubs. This cannot be argued, it is what it is. 
 

We have been indoctrinated into thinking a full set of clubs is, at least, 4-pw.  This is 7 clubs. BUT through the strengthening of lofts, now the need for a AW (or a pw with a loft next to it) are needed to fully gap a normal bag. 
 

Look through the threads on this site. Some will be asking about gapping at the low end of their bags due to strong iron lifts. 
 

This leads me to believe that the hint for longer marketable distance now gives the opportunity of selling an additional club. The AW, or gap wedge. 
 

The leader in wedge sales is Titleist. If you want to argue that, I’ll brew a pot and still beat you with their Tour presences and overall sales. The wedge game has been dominated by Vokey/Titleist for a long time.  
 

The need for an iron version of a “gap” wedge is due to the fact that distance pursuit and sales require it. 
 

My PW in high school was 49 degrees.  These were Tour issue MP 14 (my dad was a Mizuno pro). I carried a special 53 and a 57 from Cleveland.  
 

Im just saying the loft changes have created the need for the consumer to buy the 4 iron they are taught to need, AND the actual PE the ACTUALLY need.  
 

But the AW or whatever they are calling it. It will , more than likely, be more beneficial to your game than a specialist wedge. 
 

These are generalities, but I have drank a lot of rum tonight (special edition and it is great).  
 

sorry for the rant. But I think we got played. 

You're not wrong. Its just been the progression of iron lofts through the years, just the numbers got changed on the irons but its basically the same 

 

[SlothofDespond]

On 10/23/2022 at 3:31 AM, Ivyguy said:

The goal of manufacturers is to sell clubs. This cannot be argued, it is what it is. 

 

We have been indoctrinated into thinking a full set of clubs is, at least, 4-pw.  This is 7 clubs. BUT through the strengthening of lofts, now the need for a AW (or a pw with a loft next to it) are needed to fully gap a normal bag. 
 

Look through the threads on this site. Some will be asking about gapping at the low end of their bags due to strong iron lifts. 
 

This leads me to believe that the hint for longer marketable distance now gives the opportunity of selling an additional club. The AW, or gap wedge. 
 

The leader in wedge sales is Titleist. If you want to argue that, I’ll brew a pot and still beat you with their Tour presences and overall sales. The wedge game has been dominated by Vokey/Titleist for a long time.  
 

The need for an iron version of a “gap” wedge is due to the fact that distance pursuit and sales require it. 
 

My PW in high school was 49 degrees.  These were Tour issue MP 14 (my dad was a Mizuno pro). I carried a special 53 and a 57 from Cleveland.  
 

Im just saying the loft changes have created the need for the consumer to buy the 4 iron they are taught to need, AND the actual PE the ACTUALLY need.

 

I think this is on track. GI/SGI iron sets seem to be trending toward a progression of PW -> W1 -> W2 with W2 around 48-50 degrees. It seems manufacturers are subtly trying to encourage players to buy at least a 50ish degree wedge rather than set iron around that loft. It's at least worth noting wedges tend to cost more than set irons. The GI/SGI club heads may also simply launch too high for some players at higher lofts. Anecdotally, I notice my G400 UW (49.5) can be tough to keep down if I try to get on it.

 

I do have a some degree of frustration with so many clubs in my bag being labeled a wedge. The idea behind using numbers (5, 6, 7, 8...) is that it's nice easy shorthand to remember a club for a distance. Having a bunch of clubs labeled W1, W2, or 46, 50, 54, etc. is a little less so. Or at least it's clunkier. Not the biggest deal though.

 

I do think the strengthening of lofts "works" as intended because I know sooo many people who want to ask what club you hit there. 7 iron from 180? Awesome, that's a big 7! No matter that it's really what used to be a 5 iron.

Edited October 26, 2022 by SlothofDespond

[Albatross Dreamer]

2 hours ago, SlothofDespond said:

 

 

I do think the strengthening of lofts "works" as intended because I know sooo many people who want to ask what club you hit there. 7 iron from 180? Awesome, that's a big 7! No matter that it's really what used to be a 5 iron.

You only hit your 7 iron 180? Better start hitting the weights dude, should be getting at least 195. (yes this is sarcasm)

 

I actually agree with your statement 100%

[slipstitchpass]

I went back and forth on this a ton this year. My set AW is at 48* and my PW is 43* (callaway apex). I play 54, 58 vokey wedges.

 

I was having a ton of trouble gapping. My AW is ~130yd, but my 54* is 110-115yd. 58* dead on at 100yd.

 

If I saw any shot between 115-130, I had a lot of trouble taking anything off my full swing Apex/set AW. And I could not find the right club for 120ish. 

 

Solution was ultimately to drop the 3 wood i never hit, and just put a 50* wedge in the bag. I found myself using the 50* on par 3s, when i was dead on 120 in the fairway, or even around the green for some bump and run chipping. 

 

One (maybe obvious) observation is that my apex set AW just seems to go longer than i would hit a comperable vokey 48* wedge. I think this has to be taken into account with gapping along with the loft.

 

Strange place to land this year, but It seemed to give me the options I wanted this season! I still don't feel 100% comfortable 🙂

[JohnKHawk]

I have actually not bought an iron set because it didn't have a matching AW option. Wanted the Srixon ZX5 irons but in left hand they do not have the matching AW...However they do offer a 3 iron in left for the set. Seriously how do they think they would sell more left handed 3 irons than AW's? I own several irons sets & all have the matching AW/GW. The gaping just seems to work out better for me. Heck I currently game the Callaway Apex 19 matching SW too.

[DaRiz]

Long time blade player low single digit cap, switched to 223s and my first ever set gap wedge. So much easier on literally every shot. Full, partial, pitches, and chipping is a delight. Lost 0 functionality around the green, even has me considering a cavity back SW.. that’s how crazy it is 

[iamthebeard]

update: ordered both the apex TCB and MB aw to give them both a shot (aka: indecision). results coming in two weeks or so 

[outnumbered]

As i need the 50 deg to be a full shot gap filler I play the set matching GW for the extra forgiveness I get vs a standard design wedge such as a Vokey. A lot depends on what you need/want it to do for you. It sounds like you have already figured out that you would benefit more from the shot making versatility of a standard wedge vs forgiveness. Shaft selection is probably going to be more important for the distance, feel and control you are looking for. 

[RolandofGilead]

On 10/23/2022 at 1:31 AM, Ivyguy said:

So…. I have had arguments with my playing partners about this. 
 

Full disclosure: I own a tin cap (not literally but I like conspiracies). 
 

The goal of manufacturers is to sell clubs. This cannot be argued, it is what it is. 
 

We have been indoctrinated into thinking a full set of clubs is, at least, 4-pw.  This is 7 clubs. BUT through the strengthening of lofts, now the need for a AW (or a pw with a loft next to it) are needed to fully gap a normal bag. 
 

Look through the threads on this site. Some will be asking about gapping at the low end of their bags due to strong iron lifts. 
 

This leads me to believe that the hint for longer marketable distance now gives the opportunity of selling an additional club. The AW, or gap wedge. 
 

The leader in wedge sales is Titleist. If you want to argue that, I’ll brew a pot and still beat you with their Tour presences and overall sales. The wedge game has been dominated by Vokey/Titleist for a long time.  
 

The need for an iron version of a “gap” wedge is due to the fact that distance pursuit and sales require it. 
 

My PW in high school was 49 degrees.  These were Tour issue MP 14 (my dad was a Mizuno pro). I carried a special 53 and a 57 from Cleveland.  
 

Im just saying the loft changes have created the need for the consumer to buy the 4 iron they are taught to need, AND the actual PE the ACTUALLY need.  
 

But the AW or whatever they are calling it. It will , more than likely, be more beneficial to your game than a specialist wedge. 
 

These are generalities, but I have drank a lot of rum tonight (special edition and it is great).  
 

sorry for the rant. But I think we got played. 

You are spot on - not too long ago an iron set used to be 3-P. Now 4-P is pretty standard and prices of sets have not gone down. Big Wedge has succeeded in duping the general golfing public.

 

I have always gotten along with an iron-like “gap wedge”. I have switched to playing older blades from the 90s with the PW bent to 50*, along with 56* and 60* wedges. It really simplifies the short game and those partial PW wedge shots are incredibly fun to play. Very happy with this setup. Even if you play CBs, and blade iron PW is a great option because the CG tends to be higher than specialty wedges.

[EBE-GOLFIN]

On 10/24/2022 at 7:02 AM, Pars or Doubles said:

Current set has 49* gap wedge.  My 53-57 wedge setup still works for gaps and pretty much all the shots I'm interested in hitting.

This wedge thread is making me realize that my bag consists of FIVE (5) wedges. Well maybe that's a stretch because I play STRONG lofted set of irons, EPON 706's....          PW 40*, TW 44*, and 3 other Fourteen wedges -- 49, 53 & 57 degree. 

 

Now I realize that the top end of the wedges are not traditional LOFTS.. 

BUT they are my scoring BIRDIE making opportunities and I would not change a thing!!!  I make birdies and birdie opportunities with these 5 clubs...       

[Drivingrangehero]

I play a set of Mizuno HMBs now and I had to weaken some of the lofts while still maintaining my PW at 46*.  I have found that I prefer the more traditional lofts if my old MP 67’s or 37’s, however I would have preferred the stronger lofted 225’s over the HMB because they have a GW in the set, I just would have went 5-GW which is close to the lofts as my old MP 67’s 3-P

 

I ended up buying a Honma TW-World 50* wedge because I liked the profile and the way it looked at address better than the Mizuno T22 wedges. 

 

I carry 54* and 58* wedges (Vega) as well. My 50* is often a full swing club for me