Tall-er guys and putter length. Talk to me !

[bladehunter]

38 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

So it sounds like you have two options...

 

• Take a putter you own and like to a store and have them extend it. 
• Buy a longer putter and try it out. 

 

Based on what you're saying, it's almost like this thread was your attempt to get validation for wanting to try a longer putter. Well, I'd say you've gotten it. Now go do it! 😉 

Lol. Fair enough and for sure in a way.  
 

probably more  just me tired of talking  to myself about it , so I decided to include others. I think hoping  that a nugget of info surfaces that turns on a lightbulb etc.  I suppose validation is accurate , but on the other hand. Getting this bunch to ok a putter purchase is a bit like selling Rick James cocaine.  There’s not much salesmanship involved.  😂.  
 

All that being said.  This is my impasse.  All the validation on earth doesn’t seem to motivate me to order or do.  I can do the work myself.  And have a putting green to try it on.  But as I type this I know that it’s just Lucy holding the football again without some change in feel or the return of some consistent strike point that produces results from 25 feet that doesn’t  have a 5/8 foot variance.  
 

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by bladehunter

[betarhoalphadelta]

2 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

 

All that being said.  This is my impasse.  All the validation on earth doesn’t seem to motivate me to order or do.  I can do the work myself.  And have a putting green to try it on.  But as I type this I know that it’s just Lucy holding the football again without some change in feel or the return of some consistent strike point that produces results from 25 feet that doesn’t  have a 5/8 foot variance.  
 

 

Ahh... So the "hope" portion of your psyche thinks that all this time it's been putter length that's the problem and extension is a magical solution, but the "fear" portion of your psyche is that you'll try this experiment, it will fail, and then you'll have one less potential answer for how to putt better? 

 

To that I say, get over yourself! Audentus Fortuna iuvat!

[Ty_Webb]

I'm 6'3" and have a 36" putter. My irons are 1.5" long, so my PW is probably 37". 

 

One thing I would note is that different putter companies measure putter length differently from each other. Some measure from end of grip to the sweetspot, some to the bottom of the heel down the shaft line and some probably some other way. I have a PXG and an Odyssey putter that are both purportedly 36", but the PXG is about half an inch longer than the Odyssey. I find the Odyssey feels much more comfortable.

[bladehunter]

35 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Ahh... So the "hope" portion of your psyche thinks that all this time it's been putter length that's the problem and extension is a magical solution, but the "fear" portion of your psyche is that you'll try this experiment, it will fail, and then you'll have one less potential answer for how to putt better? 

 

To that I say, get over yourself! Audentus Fortuna iuvat!

😂.  Pretty much.  And the logical side says inaction will avoid failure  for one more day.  
 

I say that in jest.  I know as well as you do that the answer is “ until “.  I’m just in a bit of an until pause.  Maybe to regroup for a restart.  Because the until feels like a never will.  I’m years into playing to a fairly high level at times , and I’ve never once felt like I knew how to putt.  I’m comparing it to say my wedge or iron play.  I know how to , and don’t look for info constantly on how to do either of those.  
 

I found it funny that I recently read about colin morikowa saying the same thing.  ( not comparing skill levels )   So it’s not a one off.  I’ve obsessed this summer to the point of hurting all parts of my game . So you can’t out  work this. If you could I’d have been good several years ago.  It’s in the “ smart “ part.  Not the work  harder part. I just can’t seem to figure out the recipe.  
 

it’s not that I truly think lengthening a putter will fix it.  It’s that I fear it’s a small ingredient. And since it’s a controllable thing for me , my mind wanted to explore it.  It’s a cold rainy day , so seemed productive. Or at least seemed that way.  
 

I guess I’m attempting to start over. Much like when I built all my wedges to same length as my pw 4-5 years ago and then became one of the best wedge players I know.  I figured that out by trial  and error , and one day it clicked and there it was. The recipe.  It still took many hours of work after.  But that I don’t mind.  But I have to have some spark to go with.  Something has to make logical sense and at the same time feel good or right.  That’s the part I’m searching for really.  The spark of evidence that will cause the belief.  
 

your not wrong though.  I’m quickly running out of options. And as they dwindle down it gets harder to try the next.  

Edited November 15, 2022 by bladehunter

[Krt22]

6' and I play standard length irons and a 34" putter. I don't see why your wedge and putter would be the same length, the putter is much more upright and you are much more over the ball. If you take the same stance, hands at the same height, the putter will be need to be shorter.

 

I was once told by a fitter that putters used to be much shorter. When Karsten Ping started making them in mass, he didn't like how you had to fish them out of bag, so he started making them longer so the whole head would stick out past the edge of the bag. No idea if there is any truth to it lol

[North Butte]

18 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

6' and I play standard length irons and a 34" putter. I don't see why your wedge and putter would be the same length, the putter is much more upright and you are much more over the ball. If you take the same stance, hands at the same height, the putter will be need to be shorter.

 

I was once told by a fitter that putters used to be much shorter. When Karsten Ping started making them in mass, he didn't like how you had to fish them out of bag, so he started making them longer so the whole head would stick out past the edge of the bag. No idea if there is any truth to it lol

For a couple years I had a putter I'd chopped off to just under 33-1/2" and it was a royal pain to fish out of the bag. So I think there's something in that. The normal 34" or 35" ones (especially 35") do stand up nicer and are easier to grab. That's not why I changed lengths though. I just started getting old and decided not to bend over when I putted, not sure why I ever started doing that in the first place. Must have seen Jack putting on TV or something. 

[ferrispgm]

I'm 6'3, my putter is standard 35" and my PW is 1/2" over standard.  Technically by static measurement i should have a longer putter as well but I don't like the way a longer putter feels.  For reference I only have a 31" inseam so I'm longer in the upper body.

[bladehunter]

37 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

6' and I play standard length irons and a 34" putter. I don't see why your wedge and putter would be the same length, the putter is much more upright and you are much more over the ball. If you take the same stance, hands at the same height, the putter will be need to be shorter.

 

I was once told by a fitter that putters used to be much shorter. When Karsten Ping started making them in mass, he didn't like how you had to fish them out of bag, so he started making them longer so the whole head would stick out past the edge of the bag. No idea if there is any truth to it lol

Valid points.  I’m in two minds.  I feel like longer (might) feel better.   But I know for a fact that shorter does.  Like 33-33.5. That’s what I learned with.  I’ve lengthened as I’ve aged.  I don’t have tons of back pain.  But I did break 2 vertebrae in 2001. I take no meds. And requires no surgery then.  Just a brace and time healed it up.  Said that just to make the point that I feel like I’m as flexible as a 42 year old with previous back injury can be. And am blessed for that to be the case. What I’ll suffer from if anything is tight lower back at times.  Stretching usually will alleviate this symptom.    I think this “ in between “ place I’ve landed over time is no man’s land for me. It’s not bent over enough to keep the putter low . Bent over more doesn’t really bother me. But where I am currently is a place in between where I’m holding up my upper body in a strained position.  Does that make any sense ?    

[Warrior42111]

6'4 here, with some long arms. I use a 34" putter my PW is is 36". Not sure on the rationale they should match. Most players are further away on a full wedge shot vs putt, which accounts for some length. 

 

Did a putter fitting a couple years back and 34" gave me the most consistent results. Then again putting is probably the most personal part of golf. 

[chisag]

6 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Valid points.  I’m in two minds.  I feel like longer (might) feel better.   But I know for a fact that shorter does.  Like 33-33.5. That’s what I learned with.  I’ve lengthened as I’ve aged.  I don’t have tons of back pain.  But I did break 2 vertebrae in 2001. I take no meds. And requires no surgery then.  Just a brace and time healed it up.  Said that just to make the point that I feel like I’m as flexible as a 42 year old with previous back injury can be. And am blessed for that to be the case. What I’ll suffer from if anything is tight lower back at times.  Stretching usually will alleviate this symptom.    I think this “ in between “ place I’ve landed over time is no man’s land for me. It’s not bent over enough to keep the putter low . Bent over more doesn’t really bother me. But where I am currently is a place in between where I’m holding up my upper body in a strained position.  Does that make any sense ?    

 

 

... Putting has always been the strength of my game. Unlike my full swing, I have never changed anything and have a purely natural stroke. I have always believed a putt is like a free throw. You see all kinds of convoluted Stan es and free throw actions but the best free throw shooters all look basically the same. A relaxed stance and stroke. Puling should be the same. Bending over should not be hunched or too upright, just a natural bend to address the ball and let the arms hang naturally. Not dead straight but not unnaturally bent either. One of the drills I did with my students was have them take a stance, let their arms hang naturally then put a hybrid or fairway wood in their hands and have them make a putt. I found using a hy/fw allowed them to break out of their norm, especially if they had their arms flared or some other unnatural position. After a few putts I had them freeze at address and substituted their putter and the vast majority of time, they were gripping lower than their 35"putter. 

... But obviously the mental side is equally important. I honestly know I can make every putt I face, regardless of break or speed. Of course there are putts I have a 5% chance of making but knowing it is possible is just part of my mind set. The amount of times I hear someone say they will probably 3 putt is just crazy because they usually get what they think from a negative mind set. 

[Petethreeput]

6'2"+ but not 6'3".  I am a left hand low, left eye dominant righty. 

 

I tend to stand up pretty darned straight when I am putting.  My putter is a 35" SC with the minimum lie angle so I can stand more upright.  Because of the extreme eye dominance the ball is off my left foot.  The putter loft down 1* so it rolls better because I assume I hit it on the upswing a little more than most.  I am also thinking the more upright shaft increases the feel length of the putter.

 

All my irons are +1/2" 2 degrees upright, I don't know what that makes my PW, but I have also been told upright adds to the length (feel) of the club as well.

 

I had to change my putting after the third back surgery because I just couldn't bend over enough with the shorter putter and feel comfortable.  If nothing else, this middle ground you find yourself in gives you an excellent reason to purchase and try putters, which I have always enjoyed.  Nothing is worse than standing over a makeable putt wondering if I even have a chance of scaring the hole.

[pingfool]

23 hours ago, Greenie said:

I'm 62 now.  I started playing some 30 yrs. ago.  I'm 6'3" and I have played most of my iron sets at +1" since my first fitting in the 90's. 

 

I started out playing a 35" putter. I switched to a 34" putter a few yrs. after taking up the game and I have played a 34" putter ever since. As a matter of fact I still use my Ping putter I bought in 2004. I choke up on the shaft when I putt so I play it even shorter. My friend has the same putter in 33" and I like that a lot but using a 34" and gripping down the shaft feels more balanced to me.

 

I have a bad back so playing longer irons has always helped my back. Playing a shorter putter has never bothered my back.

 

The only change I have made to my putter is that I had to put a ball pick tool on the end of the grip a few yrs. ago.. I have a hard time  bending over and picking the ball out of the hole.

 

 

almost identical profile - except I putt standing tall to let arms hang straight down. 36” and green dot Tyne 4. Wedge is 36.5”

[baudi]

5 hours ago, bladehunter said:

No fitter has 36 inch and up putters.  Or at least I have never been handed one.  

Sorry to hear but it seems you went to the wrong places. 

If a fitting is only about alignment, strike and roll and not about physical condition, the fitter is a complete moron. 

Maybe David Whitlam, Bobby Grace, Dave Billings etc. are the guys to consult.  

 

[Nard_S]

4 hours ago, bladehunter said:

 I’d love for it to be just me.  Work doesn’t bother me one bit.  it’s cheaper than equipment.  But I’m so far gone now I just can’t tell.

 

If you are up & down face, it's the stroke. It's too hand/eye. 

 

My stroke used to feel 80% hands, it now feels like 30%. Things have been delegated, putter choice or specs matter but it does zero for unconnected stroke where it's all "great hands". Most tour guys do not putt this way. They have a shoulder rock in full control of stroke and lead hand controls club while trail dominant hand is left free to tweak impact/release. Tiger talks of right hand feel but he has a very disciplined triangle to work within. It's harder to adopt this than one thinks.  Requires a development of left side control that can take months. Worth the effort though. 

[bladehunter]

25 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

 

If you are up & down face, it's the stroke. It's too hand/eye. 

 

My stroke used to feel 80% hands, it now feels like 30%. Things have been delegated, putter choice or specs matter but it does zero for unconnected stroke where it's all "great hands". Most tour guys do not putt this way. They have a shoulder rock in full control of stroke and lead hand controls club while trail dominant hand is left free to tweak impact/release. Tiger talks of right hand feel but he has a very disciplined triangle to work within. It's harder to adopt this than one thinks.  Requires a development of left side control that can take months. Worth the effort though. 

I’m open to that idea.  But I fear the only way that becomes reality is armlock.  If that’s the case I’ve felt what you’re saying. 
 

 

not arguing. But asking. Why doesn’t this mirror full swing ?   I’m left hand dominant in full swing and in most things.  But you’re right. I don’t subscribe to Dave Stocktons dragging the left hand push stroke.  I can’t feel any release that way.  Right hand piston is my feel.  Why did it work for Jack ?   

[baudi]

6 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Right hand piston is my feel.  Why did it work for Jack ?   

Because Nicklaus hunched over the ball.😉

 

[bladehunter]

6 minutes ago, baudi said:

Because Nicklaus hunched over the ball.😉

 

Right. That’s what I was saying earlier. I learned with 33 inch.  Then moved up. I hunched way over the ball then. Gradually more upright.  Again. I’m not arguing. Just giving info.  
 

im tempted to just lock this up. I appreciate every response , I do.  But I  Inevitably I will devolve into a whine fest.  Because it’s just info overload.   Not a gripe .  
 

I read you to be saying that I’ve mismatched stroke with stance.  
 

@Nard_S   I’m curious.  Do you know what the mechanics of that miss is/are ?  As in wouldnt a right hand too active make for pulls ?  My miss is always a push. I would have told you I’m left hand strong , and need my right to engage.  Based on that result and feel.  What I’m asking is what about the hand release causes the putter to come up ?  Genuine question.  

[Krt22]

Maybe it's time to go full broom stick like 64 y/o Bernhard Langer😀

[TheDominator273]

The Ping putters with the adjustable sleeve can be made as long as 36" so if you can find a shop with one you can at least test that length with a similar style putter as you prefer before extending your own putter or buying a new one.

[bladehunter]

28 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

Maybe it's time to go full broom stick like 64 y/o Bernhard Langer😀

I’m closer to playing pickle ball than using a broomstick.   😂.  

[northgolf]

I am 6'3". Up until 5 years ago I played a 36" putter.  I am also 63 YO. 5 years ago I found I could not practice putting without back pain (M. Wie, I am not), so I switched a 38" Odyssey Tank Cruiser 1 which I use like a normal putter even though it is designed for arm lock.  I can practice for hours if I want, and my putting has greatly improved. 

 

I think being physically comfortable at address greatly increases confidence when you are putting.  Now if they had a miracle cure for an essential tremor and chipping yips.

[mhudson111]

6’1”, have lost an inch in torso due to shattered vertebrae/fusion, so my WTF is probably a little off.  

 

I took an old putter, extended it to 37”, and put on a non-tapered grip like SS Tour 2.0.  This allows me to grip down with no grip change.

 

I can thus play around with different stokes, all the way from

- longer putter, elbows connected to torso and bent, all torso

to

- shorter putter, arms hang straight down and more arm movements .

 

Plus I can see how much hunching hurts back for extended periods of time.

 

Sort of a poor man’s adjustable putter by how much choking down instead.

Now I have to figure out how to make lie angle adjustable! 😉

 

Good luck!

 

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by mhudson111

[pingfool]

8 minutes ago, mhudson111 said:

6’1”, have lost an inch in torso due to shattered vertebrae/fusion, so my WTF is probably a little off.  

 

I took an old putter, extended it to 37”, and put on a non-tapered grip like SS Tour 2.0.  This allows me to grip down with no grip change.

 

I can thus play around with different stokes, all the way from

- longer putter, elbows connected to torso and bent, all torso

to

- shorter putter, arms hang straight down and more arm movements .

 

Plus I can see how much hunching hurts back for extended periods of time.

 

Sort of a poor man’s adjustable putter by how much choking down instead.

Now I have to figure out how to make lie angle adjustable! 😉

 

Good luck!

 

 

try taking the 37” with conventional grip right to the butt end. Great way to practice longer tempo stroke and distance control

[Nard_S]

8 hours ago, bladehunter said:

@Nard_S   I’m curious.  Do you know what the mechanics of that miss is/are ?  As in wouldnt a right hand too active make for pulls ?  My miss is always a push. I would have told you I’m left hand strong , and need my right to engage.  Based on that result and feel.  What I’m asking is what about the hand release causes the putter to come up ?  Genuine question

It's like the full swing, the release was fine, how the release arrived is the problem.

 

I'm speaking anecdotally here:

 

The Stockton method, you stated as "drag the left-hand push stroke" is in fact the method I use but I never saw his technique in that light. What I got out of his method was lead hand dominant as the lead wrist leads the way.  You build lag and shaft lean, add in some mild deloft of face and all that puts trail hand in a good position to pop the release.

 

Where things really clicked was when I incorporated shoulder rock with Stockton's ideas.  A rock that feels like it tilts the triangle downhill and maintains it till impact. A rock that commands the stroke, not one that reacts to stroke. One seen on TV every weekend in spades. Experience is when I violate the hierarchy of shoulder girdle, lead hand, trail hand, that's when the pushes or pulls or the compensations of hand path come in. "Great hands" at work and effing things up, lol. Do the delegation of pace and path to shoulder rock and lead hand. That then frees up dominant hand to fine tune face/path/speed thing.  Sets the table for a good release to happen at a much higher level of consistency. 

 

To directly answer question, your hand release is running rogue because your body is not putting it in the ideal spot with consistency. It's hand/eye the entire way when those hands should be delivered and then left only to fine tune the strike.

[North Butte]

That all reads to me like an old-school putting stroke with lots of moving parts that needs coordination and exquisite timing. Very high maintenance method. 

 

As such, my generic advice when some sort of inexplicable "What The Heck???" type of malfunctions show up is to try somehow to get back to basics. Go back to setting up and putting as much as possible exactly like you were doing when you were putting your very best. Then the tricky part is to figure out a way to recapture that feel, timeing and sequencing. 

 

Yours isn't like a modern putting stroke where, if things go pear shaped, you just figure out some way to keep your hands passive or you just tweak your alignment to get back to aiming correctly. It's some sort of miracle of athletic ability and steady nerves you were able to get all those different motion elements working together in the first place, you've got no choice but to try and recapture that miracle.

 

All in my humble opinion, of course.

[ewaldbeukes]

35 years old, 6ft3. Always played a 35" putter until last year when I got a new one at 34" and loved it...let the arms hang. 

 

Recently picked up a Ping B90 due to ongoing back issues as an experiment (I could putt with a herniated disc without pain) its at 45''. I wouldnt go back - I see the line so much better being able to stand upright and my stroke has improved too! I also dabbled with a 37" Ping Anser although that was probably my worst setup of the lot

 

Experiment! Good luck

[baudi]

16 hours ago, bladehunter said:

I read you to be saying that I’ve mismatched stroke with stance.  

Not sure this line was addressed to me but if so,,, I wrote that the instrument is fit to the set up thus the instrument is fit to the player. Changing parameters of the instrument will affect the outcome. In my book form follows function. First define and analyze which element weighs most in the equation of set up; alignment; strike pattern and roll.  It is only a mismatch if one of the elements underperforms severely. Aoki, Locke, Snead, Wie, Diegel, DeChambeau etc. are idiosyncratic all the way.       

[bladehunter]

10 hours ago, Nard_S said:

It's like the full swing, the release was fine, how the release arrived is the problem.

 

I'm speaking anecdotally here:

 

The Stockton method, you stated as "drag the left-hand push stroke" is in fact the method I use but I never saw his technique in that light. What I got out of his method was lead hand dominant as the lead wrist leads the way.  You build lag and shaft lean, add in some mild deloft of face and all that puts trail hand in a good position to pop the release.

 

Where things really clicked was when I incorporated shoulder rock with Stockton's ideas.  A rock that feels like it tilts the triangle downhill and maintains it till impact. A rock that commands the stroke, not one that reacts to stroke. One seen on TV every weekend in spades. Experience is when I violate the hierarchy of shoulder girdle, lead hand, trail hand, that's when the pushes or pulls or the compensations of hand path come in. "Great hands" at work and effing things up, lol. Do the delegation of pace and path to shoulder rock and lead hand. That then frees up dominant hand to fine tune face/path/speed thing.  Sets the table for a good release to happen at a much higher level of consistency. 

 

To directly answer question, your hand release is running rogue because your body is not putting it in the ideal spot with consistency. It's hand/eye the entire way when those hands should be delivered and then left only to fine tune the strike.

Appreciate the response.  I get what you’re saying and agree in the micro scale.  I do think I had gotten too handsy trying to find the feel. But I also knew that minus the handsy I had a block block block thing going on.  
 

as for Stockton.  It’s likely just a difference in perception.  I see his way as a wide stance push.  He drags the left hand.  To me that will increase the angle at impact and after , and I don’t see how he has any flow to that stroke. No opening and closing.  And that’s my natural gate.  The toe must release.   Think rickie Fowler , tiger , Sheffler.  It’s not a lot of rotation.  But it’s enough.  And it’s certainly not dragging the left hand for more lag.  Not for me.  It’s my right hand rolling the ball.  That’s the thought.  Right hand rolling the ball.  But I’m not saying you're wrong in the diagnosis because I just saw it fixed.  I just bet that  you go ( and know that Stockton does ) more extreme than I can or will with it. And I think that’s fine.  If I try to do what Stockton shows I shove every single putt.  Unless I pre hood the face.  Anywho.   
 

 

a wise man gave me a cue last night.  Something that both showed me length is fine at 35 and that immediately brought the feel I was chasing back.  I’ve worked with him a while. So no shocker really.   Part of it was indeed your suggestion about the lead wrist angle. But only a minor tweak and something to be vigilant with.  But rest was just a simple setup cue that reminded me where I started.  And instantly took me back to the original feel. Impact is pure , ball stoped hopping and it’s hugging the ground dead online.  It’s been killing me because I knew it would be simple when I found it.  
 

 

I appreciate the info everyone  posted. It sure does show that putting is THE most individual thing in this game.  More so than shoe size and hotdog topping preferences 😂..:. I knew it but had no idea it would be such a wide variety.  With shaft length in wedges and irons we taller guys are a lot closer together. I’ve read on that for years and it’s nothing wide spread like this putter length data here. Makes me feel better about putting overall.  It is just about getting it in the hole, there is no single truth to follow. .  This thread shows 200 ways to do it and I’d bet there’s 5k more.  

Edited November 16, 2022 by bladehunter

[TLUBulldogGolf]

6’5”, 36.25” PW and 35” putter. I have (relatively) short legs for my height though. Longer feels more comfortable if I’m putting a bunch over and over but I putt the best with this length. I even used 34” for a while with decent success. I do use a Superstroke which I think makes it effectively play a little longer.

Edited November 20, 2022 by TLUBulldogGolf

[cav5]

I think putter length also depends on the style of putter. I have two main putters. 1) Oworks 7s @ 33.5 2) Oworks 7 tank @34.75

 

the tank is face balance and the 7s is flownecked. For me they perform better at these different lengths